Random Political News

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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:10 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:7 out of 10 are left leaning.

Liberals: better with hashtags.

More likely a reflection of the MSM inundating us with their liberal agenda morning, noon and night. People tweet what they see and hear.

Fox News dominates the ratings. They ARE the mainstream media.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:34 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:More likely a reflection of the MSM inundating us with their liberal agenda morning, noon and night. People tweet what they see and hear.

Fox News dominates the ratings. They ARE the mainstream media.


I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:20 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Fox News dominates the ratings. They ARE the mainstream media.


I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die


IMO, On average the older people get and more responsibility they have the more centrist/less radical they become, this happens more rapidly when they settle into a career and start a family. This is why the left wants to deteriorate the family construct.

Lot's of people subscribe to the political spectrum analogy of Left <---> Right to describe where their ideology falls, while others use a quadrant to provide more variance. While none of those are wrong, I think these days the horseshoe theory in political science is a good description of the current state of politics in this country where the far/extreme left and right have many similarities. For example both are authoritarian and if allowed to take control will foster whatever -ism into existence.

edit- Fwiw, the first paragraph (the one MB later describes as 'complete bullshit') was just my take/opinion based on a variety of factors. In hindsight I should've added "imo" since I didn't intend for it to be a declaration of fact. So I fixed that.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 am

DreadNaught wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die


On average the older people get and more responsibility they have the more centrist/less radical they become, this happens more rapidly when they settle into a career and start a family. This is why the left was to deteriorate the family construct.

Lot's of people subscribe to the political spectrum analogy of Left <---> Right to describe where their ideology falls, while others use a quadrant to provide more variance. While none of those are wrong, I think these days the horseshoe theory in political science is a good description of the current state of political in this country where the far/extreme left and right have many similarities. For example both are authoritarian and if allowed to take control will foster whatever -ism into existence.

See, your second paragraph is interesting and worthy of reading about and discussing.

Your first paragraph is complete bullshit.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:54 am

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is asking Israel to temper its response to the U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as its capital because Washington expects a backlash and is weighing the potential threat to U.S. facilities and people, according to a State Department document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

“While I recognize that you will publicly welcome this news, I ask that you restrain your official response,” the document dated Dec. 6 said in talking points for diplomats at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv to convey to Israeli officials.

“We expect there to be resistance to this news in the Middle East and around the world. We are still judging the impact this decision will have on U.S. facilities and personnel overseas,” the document said.

A second State Department document seen by Reuters, which was also dated Dec. 6, said the agency had formed an internal task force “to track worldwide developments” following the U.S. decision on Jerusalem.

Usually an administration thinks about the ramifications of a decision BEFORE they make a big announcement, but here we are.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am

DreadNaught wrote: deteriorate the family construct.



I won't get into who or what is causing it or anything like that...

but the deterioration of the traditional family is one of the largest, if not the largest, reason for the increase in poverty in this country

study after study shows one of the biggest ways for a child born into poverty to escape poverty in their adulthood is simply not to have kids out of wedlock (or at least a long term partner) and have to raise them by themselves. the other two largest factors: finishing high school, maintaining a steady job
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:34 am

DreadNaught wrote: I think these days the horseshoe theory in political science is a good description of the current state of politics in this country where the far/extreme left and right have many similarities. For example both are authoritarian and if allowed to take control will foster whatever -ism into existence.


agreed...fascism is fascism regardless of the intent of your outcome

their methods are the same




however, even with a similar methodology I think they are polar opposites on a linear line. The center right is far closer to the center left in policy then the extremes are to each other...the extremes only share method
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am

Anyone with predictions on findings of the Supreme Court hearing of the bakery case?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/ ... index.html





----

My prediction (not necessarily how I feel)

the court will rule that the baker (or any creative artist) does not have to accept every commission that someone requests but they do have to sell anyone their finished products off the shelf.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:51 am

Franken resigning. Moore/Trump still held to different standard.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Rocker » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:23 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Anyone with predictions on findings of the Supreme Court hearing of the bakery case?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/ ... index.html





----

My prediction (not necessarily how I feel)

the court will rule that the baker (or any creative artist) does not have to accept every commission that someone requests but they do have to sell anyone their finished products off the shelf.


You mean the whole “we reserve the right to refuse service” thing?

I agree with your prediction.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby deltbucs » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Fox News dominates the ratings. They ARE the mainstream media.


I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die

Just because someone criticizes Trump doesn't make them left. It's not like Trump is criticized because of the party he pretends to be a part of. South Park, for instance, criticized anyone who is an idiot and does stupid ****. They make fun of people being PC more than they make fun of Trump. People wouldn't be re-tweeting memes and **** like this if it was just a normal scumbag and not a Trump. It's not because he's right wing. It's because he's ****ing Trump. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth and says stupid **** every day trying to cover his lies and trying to pretend like he has any idea what he's talking about.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby deltbucs » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Franken resigning.

Good
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Re: Random Political News

Postby RedLeader » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Fox News dominates the ratings. They ARE the mainstream media.


I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die


Agree with this... Most folks watching Fox News probably think a hash-tag is a kids game you play with a potato. lol


Alas, the Left and their mighty twitter fingers! Changing the world one pound sign at a time!!
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:31 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Franken resigning. Moore/Trump still held to different standard.


Like I said before and I'll say again; I don't think this is right and if Franken believes in his statement he shouldn't step down. Let the ethics committee provide a reprimand and/or voters determine his fate if he believes in his innocence.

I don't like this slope we're on where every accusation must be believed. It caters to the mob mentality and inevitably is has/will be used to bring down innocent people.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby deltbucs » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:31 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Anyone with predictions on findings of the Supreme Court hearing of the bakery case?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/ ... index.html





----

My prediction (not necessarily how I feel)

the court will rule that the baker (or any creative artist) does not have to accept every commission that someone requests but they do have to sell anyone their finished products off the shelf.

I haven't kept up with it enough to give a knowledgeable answer. A cake maker being an artist is literally laughable, IMO. I do believe, however, that they should have the right to refuse service. Are they douchers for refusing services? Yes, but it should be their right, IMO. I don't really feel strongly about it either way. I wish the media would quit making it a big deal before they turn it into a bigger issue. I guess they have to report on something to keep our eyes off the ball, though.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:38 pm

deltbucs wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
I would say that liberal/multicultural/globalist talking points dominate the greater twitter/blogosphere/facebook/web news information exchange - which in essence, is the MSM now. While TV news brainwashes the boomers, the internet brainwashes the millenials. The former is majority right, the latter is heavy majority left. The momentum and ability to drive narrative is dominated by the internet now.

A LOT of old farts watch Fox news every night. But they are just sitting in their living room, nodding along to the TV in relative isolation. The shows over, and they go to bed.

Whereas a millenial will watch an episode of Bill Maher (critique trump), then stream a south park episode (that critiques trump), then get on facebook and rant about trump, hop on twitter, retweet some anti-trump stuff, favorite an anti-trump meme, scroll through about 30 links on HuffPost that talk about how raycist Trump's choice in dog is and "how eating these 10 foods secretly make you a raycist". Then they turn the TV back on, watch an award show where all the winning actors and directors hit all the leftist talking points like they're getting paid for it (and probably are), and everybody watches along and live tweets and favorites all the most empowering speeches and BLM and RESIST and METOO and literallyhitler and WHITE PEOPLE

the narrative is overwhelmingly left these days. the ballot box doesn't reflect that because "the narrative" is not reality. and as well it shouldn't be.

it might be soon though when all the old farts die

Just because someone criticizes Trump doesn't make them left. It's not like Trump is criticized because of the party he pretends to be a part of. South Park, for instance, criticized anyone who is an idiot and does stupid ****. They make fun of people being PC more than they make fun of Trump. People wouldn't be re-tweeting memes and **** like this if it was just a normal scumbag and not a Trump. It's not because he's right wing. It's because he's ****ing Trump. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth and says stupid **** every day trying to cover his lies and trying to pretend like he has any idea what he's talking about.


That's President Trump to you Delt!!! :D But otherwise I agree. Except that Trump is not a right-winger b/c that would imply he's an ideologue, which he doesn't seem to be since he seems to be all over the place and willing to concede in certain areas providing he can advance in another. Right/Left Wingers don't give ground in most cases which one factor as to why nothing happens.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:41 pm

deltbucs wrote:A cake maker being an artist is literally laughable, IMO.


Meh, I certainly can't do what those wedding cake designiers can do and I'm pretty handy in the kitchen. There is certainly an art to their creations that takes skill and passion to develop.

But I agree that nobody is confusing this guy w/ Michelangelo.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:41 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
DreadNaught wrote: deteriorate the family construct.



I won't get into who or what is causing it or anything like that...

but the deterioration of the traditional family is one of the largest, if not the largest, reason for the increase in poverty in this country

study after study shows one of the biggest ways for a child born into poverty to escape poverty in their adulthood is simply not to have kids out of wedlock (or at least a long term partner) and have to raise them by themselves. the other two largest factors: finishing high school, maintaining a steady job


Let's get into it... ;)

1000% agree with you though. Funny how I never realized the significance of this until I started my own family.

Now seriously, let's get into it. What do you think is causing it / why do you think that is the goal? I'm curious on your take. If not DN's reason, why? :)
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Re: Random Political News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm

deltbucs wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Anyone with predictions on findings of the Supreme Court hearing of the bakery case?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/ ... index.html





----

My prediction (not necessarily how I feel)

the court will rule that the baker (or any creative artist) does not have to accept every commission that someone requests but they do have to sell anyone their finished products off the shelf.

I haven't kept up with it enough to give a knowledgeable answer. A cake maker being an artist is literally laughable, IMO. I do believe, however, that they should have the right to refuse service. Are they douchers for refusing services? Yes, but it should be their right, IMO. I don't really feel strongly about it either way. I wish the media would quit making it a big deal before they turn it into a bigger issue. I guess they have to report on something to keep our eyes off the ball, though.


What passes as an "artist" certainly has changed over the last 100 years, that's for sure...
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:20 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
On average the older people get and more responsibility they have the more centrist/less radical they become, this happens more rapidly when they settle into a career and start a family. This is why the left was to deteriorate the family construct.

Lot's of people subscribe to the political spectrum analogy of Left <---> Right to describe where their ideology falls, while others use a quadrant to provide more variance. While none of those are wrong, I think these days the horseshoe theory in political science is a good description of the current state of political in this country where the far/extreme left and right have many similarities. For example both are authoritarian and if allowed to take control will foster whatever -ism into existence.

See, your second paragraph is interesting and worthy of reading about and discussing.

Your first paragraph is complete bullshit.


I’m not sure how accurate his 1st paragraph is, but if you are correct, and it’s complete bullshit, explain to us then why the vast gulf exists between the voting patterns of single and married women? Why do married women tend to vote Republican more often than single women? How did Trump get such a high percentage of married women if Liberal fervor never cools with age and added responsibility as you seem to suggest?
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:21 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
What passes as an "artist" certainly has changed over the last 100 years, that's for sure...



I used the term loosely ... basically anything customized that requires a minimal amount of creative license.

I don't think an Islamic person who owns a custom t-shirt shop should have to create a shirt that denigrates his religion because some ***hole bigot wants him to.
I don't think a Jewish IT person should have to design an app that has KKK members going through towns and killing Jews
etc
etc


While those don't fit the traditional definition of artist (as painter, writer, poet, etc) they certainly fit the looser one.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:29 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:See, your second paragraph is interesting and worthy of reading about and discussing.

Your first paragraph is complete bullshit.


I’m not sure how accurate his 1st paragraph is, but if you are correct, and it’s complete bullshit, explain to us then why the vast gulf exists between the voting patterns of single and married women? Why do married women tend to vote Republican more often than single women? How did Trump get such a high percentage of married women if Liberal fervor never cools with age and added responsibility as you seem to suggest?

Republicans getting married much earlier due to religious convictions would certainly explain the differential. You can't vote until you're 18. If a liberal couple waits until they're done with school and comfortably into their careers before getting married while the conservative woman gets married right out of high school, then it doesn't really fit your argument.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Let's get into it... ;)

1000% agree with you though. Funny how I never realized the significance of this until I started my own family.

Now seriously, let's get into it. What do you think is causing it / why do you think that is the goal? I'm curious on your take. If not DN's reason, why? :)


I'm happy to tread these waters with you.

I think a lot of things have gone into the devolution of the traditional family...here are some:

  • Decline in religion in our society -- family plays a large role in most religions
  • A society that seems to glamorize single mothers
  • Decline in the idea that people need to take care of themselves and their decisions without welfare support from others
  • This obsession we have in the US right now with short term satisfaction without long term planning
  • People are idiots when it comes to money and consumption and don't realize the economic benefit of staying with a partner their entire lives
  • A society that doesn't have any concern for long term statistical probabilities -- kids who grow up with two parents generally do better in life than kids with one parent -- when people hear statistics that point to this case, they immediately cling onto the exceptions to the generality
  • Decline in faithfullness, selflessness and dedication to you partner
  • Let's be honest here --- lots of guys are ***holes...in the past women were forced to stay with them because of the negative stigma of divorce and their lack of work opportunities outside the house -- now that those barriers have crashed....men have FAILED to up their game and treat women better


I'm sure there are many more but those are a few
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
if Liberal fervor never cools with age and added responsibility as you seem to suggest?



Leaving aside other stuff in your posts about this....it is hard to argue that people tend to get more conservative with age. Lots of studies show this...here's one.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... d-politics


Personally I don't find it very surprising at all.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:40 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
Let's get into it... ;)

1000% agree with you though. Funny how I never realized the significance of this until I started my own family.

Now seriously, let's get into it. What do you think is causing it / why do you think that is the goal? I'm curious on your take. If not DN's reason, why? :)


I'm happy to tread these waters with you.

I think a lot of things have gone into the devolution of the traditional family...here are some:

  • Decline in religion in our society -- family plays a large role in most religions
  • A society that seems to glamorize single mothers
  • Decline in the idea that people need to take care of themselves and their decisions without welfare support from others
  • This obsession we have in the US right now with short term satisfaction without long term planning
  • People are idiots when it comes to money and consumption and don't realize the economic benefit of staying with a partner their entire lives
  • A society that doesn't have any concern for long term statistical probabilities -- kids who grow up with two parents generally do better in life than kids with one parent -- when people hear statistics that point to this case, they immediately cling onto the exceptions to the generality
  • Decline in faithfullness, selflessness and dedication to you partner
  • Let's be honest here --- lots of guys are ***holes...in the past women were forced to stay with them because of the negative stigma of divorce and their lack of work opportunities outside the house -- now that those barriers have crashed....men have FAILED to up their game and treat women better


I'm sure there are many more but those are a few

The last point is a pretty major one. I think that's why the metoo campaign became so huge. Women realize they don't have to take it any more. There's cultural problems with disrespecting women on both sides of the political spectrum that has led to these problems and feeds the lack of faithfulness.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:41 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:See, your second paragraph is interesting and worthy of reading about and discussing.

Your first paragraph is complete bullshit.


I’m not sure how accurate his 1st paragraph is, but if you are correct, and it’s complete bullshit, explain to us then why the vast gulf exists between the voting patterns of single and married women? Why do married women tend to vote Republican more often than single women? How did Trump get such a high percentage of married women if Liberal fervor never cools with age and added responsibility as you seem to suggest?

I'll break it down for you.
On average the older people get and more responsibility they have the more centrist/less radical they become this happens more rapidly when they settle into a career and start a family.

what average? Or is this anecdotal? That's right, because there is no empirical evidence to support the statement aside from the obvious priority shift that happens for most people when they become parents. Even if accepted as true, that does not in any way mean they reject any belief that one would consider "radical". At most, it makes the belief a lesser priority than the more immediate concerns.

This is why the left was to deteriorate the family construct.

This is what took it from bullshit to complete bullshit. As one of the resident board leftists, I can assure you that I have never called for or heard any left wing speech calling for the dissolution of the family.

That's a nice game the right likes to play. "Dem liburls tryin ta distroy muh famulee" How? By advocating to EXPAND what a family is? By promoting marriage as being more than just a union of same-race, heterosexual protestants? The only thing that is being deteriorated by the left here is the whitewashed, Mayberry, fantasyland projection of "how it aught to be".

It's nobody's goddamned business if two adults enter into a union and decide to raise children. But that doesn't stop idiots like Kim Davis with their "traditional family values" does it?

Now I would much rather discuss his "horseshoe theory of political science" than entertain assertions about leftists that have no basis in fact.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 pm

MB- do you recognize a difference between a liberal and leftist? Or are they one in the same to you? The same question could be positioned as conservative and right-winger.

I realize the line is blurred, but some MAJOR differences are things like identity politics and the silencing of dissenting views. Those are virtues of the LEFT and not of those that I consider to be liberal.

But perhaps my view needs calibration to align with 2017.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:22 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:what average? Or is this anecdotal? That's right, because there is no empirical evidence to support the statement aside from the obvious priority shift that happens for most people when they become parents. Even if accepted as true, that does not in any way mean they reject any belief that one would consider "radical". At most, it makes the belief a lesser priority than the more immediate concerns.

I never said they would reject a belief, I said less radical/more centrist. Which you seem to reluctantly agree with based on other priorities coming to the forefront. Oftentimes when immediate family is involved those priorities lead to a more centrist ideology imo. I think Zarni linked an article about this.


Mountaineer Buc wrote: This is what took it from bullshit to complete bullshit. As one of the resident board leftists, I can assure you that I have never called for or heard any left wing speech calling for the dissolution of the family.

It wasn't directed at you or anyone here. But I'd be glad to cite articles from Left-wing publications glorifying the child-free life as an example.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:That's a nice game the right likes to play. "Dem liburls tryin ta distroy muh famulee" How? By advocating to EXPAND what a family is? By promoting marriage as being more than just a union of same-race, heterosexual protestants? The only thing that is being deteriorated by the left here is the whitewashed, Mayberry, fantasyland projection of "how it aught to be".

It's nobody's goddamned business if two adults enter into a union and decide to raise children. But that doesn't stop idiots like Kim Davis with their "traditional family values" does it?

Not sure where you're taking this here and playing up the gay angle since I didn't mention it and have no problem with same sex couples. The point was that a family construct is best for raising children and I'd agree that a same sex couple committed to one another is measurably better that single parent household and I'm sure there is some stats to support that. As Zarni pointed out single parent households lead to increased/perpetuating poverty and a much higher rate that of a family structure.

When people are dependent on their family for education and well-being they are by default less dependent on the government for those things (Agree or Disagree?). That is bad for the Left and IMO the motivation behind wanting to deteriorate the family construct. It boils down to dependency, which provides control. But that is just my take. I respect that you don't agree. :D
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm

I blame Murphy Brown.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:52 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:what average? Or is this anecdotal? That's right, because there is no empirical evidence to support the statement aside from the obvious priority shift that happens for most people when they become parents. Even if accepted as true, that does not in any way mean they reject any belief that one would consider "radical". At most, it makes the belief a lesser priority than the more immediate concerns.

I never said they would reject a belief, I said less radical/more centrist. Which you seem to reluctantly agree with based on other priorities coming to the forefront. Oftentimes when immediate family is involved those priorities lead to a more centrist ideology imo. I think Zarni linked an article about this.


Mountaineer Buc wrote: This is what took it from bullshit to complete bullshit. As one of the resident board leftists, I can assure you that I have never called for or heard any left wing speech calling for the dissolution of the family.

It wasn't directed at you or anyone here. But I'd be glad to cite articles from Left-wing publications glorifying the child-free life as an example.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:That's a nice game the right likes to play. "Dem liburls tryin ta distroy muh famulee" How? By advocating to EXPAND what a family is? By promoting marriage as being more than just a union of same-race, heterosexual protestants? The only thing that is being deteriorated by the left here is the whitewashed, Mayberry, fantasyland projection of "how it aught to be".

It's nobody's goddamned business if two adults enter into a union and decide to raise children. But that doesn't stop idiots like Kim Davis with their "traditional family values" does it?

Not sure where you're taking this here and playing up the gay angle since I didn't mention it and have no problem with same sex couples. The point was that a family construct is best for raising children and I'd agree that a same sex couple committed to one another is measurably better that single parent household and I'm sure there is some stats to support that. As Zarni pointed out single parent households lead to increased/perpetuating poverty and a much higher rate that of a family structure.

When people are dependent on their family for education and well-being they are by default less dependent on the government for those things (Agree or Disagree?). That is bad for the Left and IMO the motivation behind wanting to deteriorate the family construct. It boils down to dependency, which provides control. But that is just my take. I respect that you don't agree. :D


On Zarni's article..
It is also partially due to the fact that younger generations have been brought up in a more socially liberal world. When my parents first voted in the 1960s, homosexuality was illegal, abortion was largely illegal, the death penalty was still in force and openly racist attitudes were widely acceptable. Now, when my students voted this year for the first time, the death penalty is a distant memory, abortion rights are firmly entrenched, gay marriage is legal and accusing someone of racism is regarded as the ultimate end-of-argument put down.

This process of generational replacement could be very important, because it implies that rightwing parties are fighting against the tide of history. On this argument, the Conservative electorate is effectively dying out.


The author ponders a couple of explanations for this dataset, and this is the one I think is most accurate. What is conservative today was generally progressive a generation ago. Mind you this is on social issues.

I wholly reject the premise that we liberals are twisting our mustaches hell bent on creating a society that is wholly dependent upon government. That is nothing more than right-wing fear mongering and imo is a projection from authoritarian conservative commentators.

Got a parent-teacher conference to go to.
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