Random Political News

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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:42 pm

I'm in favor of this reckoning no matter whom is held accountable by it.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:47 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:For the Republicans here: should we excuse Franken for this isolated incident or should we demand he step down?


- I liked his response despite not being a fan of his.
- "We" don't know this was an isolated incident. There were two incidents just with this one accuser. Perhaps isolated accuser would be more appropriate.
- I don't subscribe to groupthink, but personally I will not be demanding anything regarding Franken resigning. He stated he would welcome the ethics committee looking into this and I'm fine with that providing no new information comes to light regarding other incidents with him.

This is uncharted territory in that there is a serious collective effort in society to change how woman have been treated. Crude jokes and inappropriate behavior in the spirit of amusement is no longer tolerated as an excuse for such behavior. These are positive changes I fully support and will do my part in fostering that change. By that same token I hate when society/people retroactively judges things from the past using current norms.

The picture isn't a big deal imo. It was very dumb and inappropriate for sure, but not worthy of ruining a career over. The forcible kissing is more disturbing to me since Franken used his power to facilitate that situation which is the root in many of these issues. But it's 'he-said, she-said' and no sex or other penetration was involved so as long as the facts remain as we know them I don't see a reason for Franken to step down.

This is certainly a slippery slope when it comes to all these claims being driven by the #MeToo campaign. There is a danger in believing any person at face value without supporting evidence, witnesses, facts. Lives are getting ruined over these allegations and while most are probably deserved, there will be innocent casualties where some men will be accused based on some vendetta. To me that goes against the creed of the American justice system of innocent until PROVEN guilty. It seems facts, witnesses, and evidence are irrelevant when comes to this #MeToo campaign and allegations are enough in the court of public opinion.


Forgive me for being slightly sanctimonious right here but, I vehemently disagree. There is no "relative" right or "relative" wrong action. There is only "absolute" right or wrong - preceded by intention.

Actions that are "absolute" wrong, however, are capable of being justified as acceptable by applying the relative moral interpretation formed by (an era of) a society.

Our judgement should most definitely be cast upon the less-evolved behaviors of those who existed in the past, because by definition, as time goes on, we only become more (capable of being) aware, more evolved, more understanding, and better prepared to make decisions based on a closer understanding of truth and a more evolved sense of justice.

That's what a lot of this is about - look at much of the common defense (from Polanski et al) - "oh you know, it was a different time back then. don't judge us based on what we did in the 70s or 80s"

Well guess what? turns out the women that were being used or taken advantage of at that time weren't as down with it as much as you thought they were. Turns out they were just playing tough, just withstanding these predators' behavior. And it has grated on these women for years, damaged them, and changed their entire lives. The wrong done unto these people in the past is tethered to their present existence in a very real way. So it wasn't "ok because it was the 70's", it was wrong for any point in history for men to act so reprehensible, and it was only the landscape of the society at the time that deemed that behavior as acceptable.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:36 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
The picture isn't a big deal imo. It was very dumb and inappropriate for sure, but not worthy of ruining a career over. The forcible kissing is more disturbing to me since Franken used his power to facilitate that situation which is the root in many of these issues. But it's 'he-said, she-said' and no sex or other penetration was involved so as long as the facts remain as we know them I don't see a reason for Franken to step down.
.


I don't think the picture is bad in any facet. People of all sexes, races, and backgrounds do **** like that all the time and it is universally acceptable. Even with this recent wave of #metoo, it doesn't make that bad or criminal. Much like with any movement, the change agent often goes to extreme exaggerations in attempts to enact change. While I don't think the forced kissing should be coupled with that picture to amplify the outrage, that action in itself is bad and should be the headline. I think the picture leading the story is creating a lot of people to roll their eyes, as again, it's not a big deal.

And to Beard, your entire post can be summed up with...

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I mean we can get into a deeper debate on moral relativism for different time periods, but it's obvious what your opinion is and I can/do respect that. I just don't agree your "absolutes", as by definition the right and wrong are subjective depending on the person, situation, and time period. There are plenty of women who think this entire thing is overblown and are offended by the movement itself, but even saying that doesn't mean that the ones leading this movement aren't justified. It's their opinion that these actions are wrong. We all have a right to disagree. I've been pretty clear in the past that I don't believe in moral absolutism.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Morals aren’t relative but ethical standards for acceptable behavior certainly change over time
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Re: Random Political News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:50 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Morals aren’t relative but ethical standards for acceptable behavior certainly change over time


Morals aren't relative in your opinion.

I agree with part 2.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:52 pm

Yes, it goes without saying that’s my opinion
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Re: Random Political News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:52 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Yes, it goes without saying that’s my opinion


Not on this message board, my friend.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:53 pm

Actually, you have a point there

My bad
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Re: Random Political News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:57 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
The picture isn't a big deal imo. It was very dumb and inappropriate for sure, but not worthy of ruining a career over. The forcible kissing is more disturbing to me since Franken used his power to facilitate that situation which is the root in many of these issues. But it's 'he-said, she-said' and no sex or other penetration was involved so as long as the facts remain as we know them I don't see a reason for Franken to step down.
.


I don't think the picture is bad in any facet. People of all sexes, races, and backgrounds do **** like that all the time and it is universally acceptable. Even with this recent wave of #metoo, it doesn't make that bad or criminal. Much like with any movement, the change agent often goes to extreme exaggerations in attempts to enact change. While I don't think the forced kissing should be coupled with that picture to amplify the outrage, that action in itself is bad and should be the headline. I think the picture leading the story is creating a lot of people to roll their eyes, as again, it's not a big deal.

And to Beard, your entire post can be summed up with...

Image

I mean we can get into a deeper debate on moral relativism for different time periods, but it's obvious what your opinion is and I can/do respect that. I just don't agree your "absolutes", as by definition the right and wrong are subjective depending on the person, situation, and time period. There are plenty of women who think this entire thing is overblown and are offended by the movement itself, but even saying that doesn't mean that the ones leading this movement aren't justified. It's their opinion that these actions are wrong. We all have a right to disagree. I've been pretty clear in the past that I don't believe in moral absolutism.


sure, that's fine, we can disagree about the finer points of moral absolutism, I understand both sides of the argument - and things begin to get grey when approaching things with a machiavellian outlook, particularly when moving up and down the scale from individuals to nations; but I believe absolutism is more applicable across the board than relativism - by far. And ultimately, sexual deviance and rape falls pretty far on the "applicable" side of this spectrum. And it is most definitely applicable to beat back this weak ass defense of "well it was just a different time guys, don't judge me"
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Alpha » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:56 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'm in favor of this reckoning no matter whom is held accountable by it.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:58 am

This stuff is teaching women to put that Ace in the hole. They can keep it there until the time the big pot rolls in. Anyone that rises to prominence can have this come at them. Heck it might even get as bad as to take down Walmart managers because they wouldnt shell out a thou...

You reflect back to that one time after weeks of great sex and then she is like no no stop it your bla bla bla. Of course she put Mr smartphone out and recorded it.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby NYBF » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:24 am

mdb1958 wrote:This stuff is teaching women to put that Ace in the hole. They can keep it there until the time the big pot rolls in. Anyone that rises to prominence can have this come at them. Heck it might even get as bad as to take down Walmart managers because they wouldnt shell out a thou...

You reflect back to that one time after weeks of great sex and then she is like no no stop it your bla bla bla. Of course she put Mr smartphone out and recorded it.


So you like rape is what you're saying....
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Ya, I have zero sympathy for all these Neanderthals talking about how this has gone too far. I might reconsider that if we have a string of false accusations, but there seems to be little evidence of that
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Alpha » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:57 am

mdb1958 wrote:This stuff is teaching women to put that Ace in the hole. They can keep it there until the time the big pot rolls in. Anyone that rises to prominence can have this come at them. Heck it might even get as bad as to take down Walmart managers because they wouldnt shell out a thou...

You reflect back to that one time after weeks of great sex and then she is like no no stop it your bla bla bla. Of course she put Mr smartphone out and recorded it.



Dear Mr. Rapey McRaperson,

You've been duly noted.

Best of luck in your rapey endeavors.


Sincerely,

the mgmt.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:32 am

What happens if Roy Moore wins and the Senate refuses to seat him? Seems like that's what will happen if Alabamans are lying to pollsters because you basically cannot seat him. So do they hold new elections or does the Snate function with 99 Senators or what?
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Brazen331 wrote:What happens if Roy Moore wins and the Senate refuses to seat him? Seems like that's what will happen if Alabamans are lying to pollsters because you basically cannot seat him. So do they hold new elections or does the Snate function with 99 Senators or what?

That's actually an excellent question. My guess is the Governor of Alabama would have to appoint someone
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:23 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:What happens if Roy Moore wins and the Senate refuses to seat him? Seems like that's what will happen if Alabamans are lying to pollsters because you basically cannot seat him. So do they hold new elections or does the Snate function with 99 Senators or what?

That's actually an excellent question. My guess is the Governor of Alabama would have to appoint someone

There's a bit of an unwritten rule that they don't expel a member if the infractions were know to the voters before being elected. The whole expulsion talk is just political pandering at this point that there's really no chance they would follow through on. If Moore is elected, and I'm still pretty sure he will be thanks to IOKIYAR, he'll serve his term in the Senate as if nothing happened.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm

Government sues to block AT&T and Time Warner merger


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/20/media/a ... index.html
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Re: Random Political News

Postby SDBucs » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:49 pm

Anyone know what Obama/Bush/Clinton net worth were Pre vs Post presidency?

Curious how theirs changed % wise vs what Trumps will
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:51 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Government sues to block AT&T and Time Warner merger


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/20/media/a ... index.html

Good. Those two companies need to be broken up themselves, let alone merge.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Buc2 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:30 am

Speaking of Roy Moore...

Following The Gateway Pundit’s viral story on Judge Roy Moore’s alleged signature inside accuser Beverly Young Nelson’s yearbook, more evidence suggested it was a forgery.

The signature says “To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say, ‘Merry Christmas.’ Love, Roy Moore DA, 12-22-77, Olde Hickory House.”

Strangely, “To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say, ‘Merry Christmas.’ Love, Roy,” is written in black ink, while “Moore DA, 12-22-77, Olde Hickory House,” is in blue ink.

And then there’s this… Judge Roy Moore was not the DA in 1978. He would not have signed a signature with DA after it. Moore insists this is not his signature.

The Moore campaign is demanding Gloria Allred turn over the fraudulent signature in the yearbook for analysis.

Now there are calls for the arrest of far left Attorney Gloria Allred.

Market Ticker reported:

Jesus, it’s that obvious and CNN ran this crap?

People need to go to ****ing prison for this. NOW.

Yes, including Gloria Allred. The yearbook is an obvious forgery and she peddled it on national television; that needs to be good for disbarment and prosecution.

And Beverly Nelson’s stepson Darrel Nelson also called for the arrest of Gloria Allred.

Darrel Nelson called for Alabama to arrest Gloria Allred in a text message to The Gateway Pundit on Sunday.

Alabama needs to call for the arrest of Gloria Allred for election tampering and fraud. And more importantly for pissing us off.

Allred was a Hillary delegate at the DNC in 2016.

Allred is also under TWO INVESTIGATIONS for misconduct as an attorney.

It’s time to hold Gloria Allred accountable for pushing this fraudulent document for political gain.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:05 am

This image is from CNN's website on November 13th.

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politics/roy-moore-yearbook/index.html

Here it is from the Daily Beast "8 Days ago"

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https://www.thedailybeast.com/roy-moore-signed-latest-accusers-high-school-yearbook

Washington examiner on November 15th

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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/roy-moores-team-demands-access-to-accuser-beverly-young-nelsons-yearbook/article/2640835

I'm not going to say the signature is authentic, but the only images I see of it in blue ink are from metabunk.org and infowars.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby deltbucs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:07 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Government sues to block AT&T and Time Warner merger


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/20/media/a ... index.html

Good. While this sure seems like the right thing to do for the consumer, I'm always skeptical of the government's real motives or if this might just be all for show.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby deltbucs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:11 am

Buc2 wrote:Speaking of Roy Moore...


Have you ever read anything from a non-biased source? All you do is post **** from super right-wing sources and half of the time there are no facts involved. It's no wonder you think that your team is awesome.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:45 pm

deltbucs wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Government sues to block AT&T and Time Warner merger


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/20/media/a ... index.html

Good. While this sure seems like the right thing to do for the consumer, I'm always skeptical of the government's real motives or if this might just be all for show.

Look at this goddamned chart.

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It's time to bust em' up again.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:55 pm

There is so much wrong with that....starting with how the company was split up in the first place....The idiotic government broke up one big monopoly and created a bunch of small ones by essentially dividing up the country into regions in which the Baby Bells still had their own little regional monopolies.

Then all throughout the past 30 years the government regulators had no foresight whatsoever and they treated all the different forms of communication independently instead of seeing the future...as such, they allowed far too many mergers and acquisitions that greatly reduced competitive dynamics.

all the while they continued to grant new quasi-monopolies as new technologies came out -- ATT U-Verse / Verizon Fios....etc.

I see very little hope of them actually doing the right thing here in the long run....look what they are allowing some of the social media companies to do now.

The companies they should be wary off and monitoring are the same companies who fill their coffers come election time.

I suppose if they stop this merger, it will at least be a step in the right direction
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Buc2 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:31 am

Awesome story about a NK solder that defected to SK yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/21/asia/nort ... index.html

Dramatic video showing a North Korean soldier fleeing across the border into South Korea while being shot at by his former comrades was released by the United Nations Command Wednesday.

The video's release marks the first time the American-led UN Command has disclosed security footage of a defection across the heavily fortified demilitarized zone (DMZ) that divides North and South Korea, said Hochong Song, a public affairs officer for US Forces Korea.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby RedLeader » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:39 am

Buc2 wrote:Awesome story about a NK solder that defected to SK yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/21/asia/nort ... index.html

Dramatic video showing a North Korean soldier fleeing across the border into South Korea while being shot at by his former comrades was released by the United Nations Command Wednesday.

The video's release marks the first time the American-led UN Command has disclosed security footage of a defection across the heavily fortified demilitarized zone (DMZ) that divides North and South Korea, said Hochong Song, a public affairs officer for US Forces Korea.


Good find, buc2. Lots of interesting details in the article as well.

Surprised it doesn’t happen more often..
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Re: Random Political News

Postby Buc2 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:50 am

RedLeader wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Awesome story about a NK solder that defected to SK yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/21/asia/nort ... index.html



Good find, buc2. Lots of interesting details in the article as well.

Surprised it doesn’t happen more often..

Check out this follow up story concerning what the finding of parasitic worms in the solder's intestines indicates about the state of health in North Korea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 0cd04f43ac

Finding worms inside a soldier who once guarded one of the most scrutinized borders in the world is especially telling, a sign that North Korea’s food woes affect military members, who typically have a higher ranking on the food-rationing list.
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Re: Random Political News

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:28 am

A link from CNN followed by a link from the Washington Post? Careful there Buc2... you wouldn't want your buddies to see you reporting fake news.
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