Cuba

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Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:01 pm

So now that Obama, ESPN, and the Rays have played patty cake with the Castros, anyone have thoughts? I was told on the former board that I don't understand the situation and that my wife's familiy's pain is a bunch of too bad so sad.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Buc2 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:35 am

Ken Carson wrote:So now that Obama, ESPN, and the Rays have played patty cake with the Castros, anyone have thoughts? I was told on the former board that I don't understand the situation and that my wife's familiy's pain is a bunch of too bad so sad.


You mean other than Obama looking and acting like a completely owned tool?
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Re: Cuba

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:49 am

Their batting looked ok, but their pitching was very suspect.
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Re: Cuba

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:16 pm

What's the story about your wife? I don't remember from the old board.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:23 pm

I love the Cubans. Never met a Cuban who was anything other than generous, friendly, and courteous. I'd have a Cuban neighbor in a heartbeat.

Regardless of anything Obama has done with regards to this situation, Cuba will be the crown jewel of the Caribbean again in my lifetime. Can't wait to visit someday when they get the place polished up.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Buc2 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:26 pm

I'm right there with you on that score, MB.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:27 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:What's the story about your wife? I don't remember from the old board.


She is Cuban.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:37 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I love the Cubans. Never met a Cuban who was anything other than generous, friendly, and courteous. I'd have a Cuban neighbor in a heartbeat.


This sounds like something someone might say on the front end of a statement to dilute what comes next.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Regardless of anything Obama has done with regards to this situation, Cuba will be the crown jewel of the Caribbean again in my lifetime. Can't wait to visit someday when they get the place polished up.


And this is the sentiment I don't get. In your life time, you're going to get yet another ****ing beach to go to. And a generation of Cubans will live and die without ever knowing freedom.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Wesmon » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:09 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I love the Cubans. Never met a Cuban who was anything other than generous, friendly, and courteous. I'd have a Cuban neighbor in a heartbeat.


This sounds like something someone might say on the front end of a statement to dilute what comes next.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Regardless of anything Obama has done with regards to this situation, Cuba will be the crown jewel of the Caribbean again in my lifetime. Can't wait to visit someday when they get the place polished up.


And this is the sentiment I don't get. In your life time, you're going to get yet another ****ing beach to go to. And a generation of Cubans will live and die without ever knowing freedom.



I just don't get the sentiment to keep the embargo. Do you really think that after over 50 years that it will magically work to depose the regime? It hasn't worked and it is only punishing the Cuban people.

In fact, the embargo has only helped to keep the Castros in power by allowing them to close their society off from U.S. influence.By opening up our relations we will have much more influence to affect change in Cuba, through trade and culture.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:53 am

Doing something other than the embargo is fine. It didn't work. Our president taking a picture in front of Che isn't my idea of a good, new approach.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:26 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I love the Cubans. Never met a Cuban who was anything other than generous, friendly, and courteous. I'd have a Cuban neighbor in a heartbeat.


This sounds like something someone might say on the front end of a statement to dilute what comes next.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Regardless of anything Obama has done with regards to this situation, Cuba will be the crown jewel of the Caribbean again in my lifetime. Can't wait to visit someday when they get the place polished up.


And this is the sentiment I don't get. In your life time, you're going to get yet another ****ing beach to go to. And a generation of Cubans will live and die without ever knowing freedom.

You read waaaaaaay too much into that.
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Re: Cuba

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:21 am

Ken Carson wrote:Doing something other than the embargo is fine. It didn't work. Our president taking a picture in front of Che isn't my idea of a good, new approach.


What do you think should be done?
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Re: Cuba

Postby Corsair » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:31 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Doing something other than the embargo is fine. It didn't work. Our president taking a picture in front of Che isn't my idea of a good, new approach.

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Re: Cuba

Postby Buc2 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Exactly, Corsair. When making speeches in foreign countries, visiting heads of state probably don't get too much say in the location for said speech.

Oh... And just to be fair...

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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:09 pm

I wasn't aware that past mistakes were excuses for future ones. Interacting way to look at the world though, Corsair.

And Prime Minister... I'd normalize relations with specific concessions from the Castros before sending a delegation. And doing the wave at a baseball game with a noted human rights violator. If all we want is a money grab, at least have the decency to do it quietly.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:25 pm

After 60+ years of sanctions, what incentives do the Castros have to make concessions?

By all accounts, they are quite comfortable.
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Re: Cuba

Postby The Outsider » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:02 pm

Ken Carson wrote:I wasn't aware that past mistakes were excuses for future ones. Interacting way to look at the world though, Corsair.

And Prime Minister... I'd normalize relations with specific concessions from the Castros before sending a delegation. And doing the wave at a baseball game with a noted human rights violator. If all we want is a money grab, at least have the decency to do it quietly.


And that's why you're not running the country. You're too emotional. Normalizing economic relations is always the first step. You can't oust the Castros and deliver freedom to the Cuban people overnight or even in a matter of years, unless you want to involve the military.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Nano » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:13 pm

We oust Castro and kill all their military leaders. In exchange, the people send us more sandwiches and cigars. Fair trade I suppose.
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Re: Cuba

Postby terrytate » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:09 am

Nano wrote:We oust Castro and kill all their military leaders. In exchange, the people send us more sandwiches and cigars. Fair trade I suppose.



Pretty sure we tried that once.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:25 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:I wasn't aware that past mistakes were excuses for future ones. Interacting way to look at the world though, Corsair.

And Prime Minister... I'd normalize relations with specific concessions from the Castros before sending a delegation. And doing the wave at a baseball game with a noted human rights violator. If all we want is a money grab, at least have the decency to do it quietly.


And that's why you're not running the country. You're too emotional. Normalizing economic relations is always the first step. You can't oust the Castros and deliver freedom to the Cuban people overnight or even in a matter of years, unless you want to involve the military.

You think any of this has to do with rights for Cubans? It's the flimsy excuse for a money grab. Like I said, if that's what you want, fine, but won't insult Cuban dissidents and exiles by parading freedom around Havana and then cutting bait when the check clears.
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Re: Cuba

Postby NYBF » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:55 am

Did you at least enjoy the game, Ken?

BRADENTON, Fla. (AP) — A man apparently angered by the Tampa Bay Rays' recent trip to Cuba made his way onto the field and threw a full can of beer into the team's dugout Saturday night during a spring training game against the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Nobody was hurt. A member of the Pirates' grounds crew and Rays third base coach Charlie Montoyo restrained the protester until police arrived, briefly delaying the game.

The man was arrested and will be charged with causing a fray, trespassing and assault, Bradenton police Lt. John Affolter said. Police would not yet identify the man.

"I've worked games here for 23 years and I've never seen anything like it," Affolter said. "I've seen a streaker, I've seen a lot. I thought I'd seen it all."

During the seventh inning, the man moved toward the field from the seats behind third base, jumped a short fence and ran onto the grass in front of the Rays' dugout at McKechnie Field.

According to players and Bradenton police, the man shouted obscenities about the Castro regime in Cuba. He threw a can of beer that smashed into the back wall of the Rays' dugout.

"Nobody got hit," Tampa Bay pitcher Jake Odorizzi said. "Maybe some guys got wet."

Pittsburgh shortstop Jordy Mercer saw it all unfold from the Pirates' dugout.

"I just heard a loud boom and I saw beer fly," Mercer said. "You never know what's going to happen. But law enforcement was on it, which was good. And the Rays players were too, so they helped out, too."

Montoyo said he told the man to calm down.

"I realized he speaks Spanish, so I was telling him to relax," the coach said. "I didn't hear what he was yelling. He looked old, so I kind of felt bad for him. I was holding him and not trying to tackle him."

The Rays played an exhibition game against the Cuban national team in Havana on Tuesday. President Barack Obama attended the game, part of the first visit to the Communist island nation by a sitting American president in 88 years.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Grim Reaper » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:38 pm

NYBF wrote:...threw a full can of beer...


Execute him...
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Re: Cuba

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:53 pm

Grim Reaper wrote:
NYBF wrote:...threw a full can of beer...


Execute him...

What if it was a keystone light? I honestly couldn't blame him in that case.
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Re: Cuba

Postby The Outsider » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:34 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
The Outsider wrote:
And that's why you're not running the country. You're too emotional. Normalizing economic relations is always the first step. You can't oust the Castros and deliver freedom to the Cuban people overnight or even in a matter of years, unless you want to involve the military.

You think any of this has to do with rights for Cubans? It's the flimsy excuse for a money grab. Like I said, if that's what you want, fine, but won't insult Cuban dissidents and exiles by parading freedom around Havana and then cutting bait when the check clears.



Like, I said, this is the first step in bringing Cuba back in to the western world. If you think that US influence alone won't eventually cause a paradigm shift within Cuba then you need to go brush up on the mechanics of regional geo-politics, especially between a tiny, mostly irrelevant island nation and a globe spanning empire that also happens to be the greatest economic and military power on the planet. Also, again, the only way to effectively overturn the Castro regime and bring freedom to the Cuban people within any sort of near-immediate time frame is military intervention to oust the Castro regime and then to basically rebuild the country after we bomb the **** out of it. And the most effective way to rebuild Cuba, due to it's proximity would probably be to "temporarily" name it as a territory and effectively remove the sovereignty of the Cuban people.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:40 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:You think any of this has to do with rights for Cubans? It's the flimsy excuse for a money grab. Like I said, if that's what you want, fine, but won't insult Cuban dissidents and exiles by parading freedom around Havana and then cutting bait when the check clears.



Like, I said, this is the first step in bringing Cuba back in to the western world. If you think that US influence alone won't eventually cause a paradigm shift within Cuba then you need to go brush up on the mechanics of regional geo-politics, especially between a tiny, mostly irrelevant island nation and a globe spanning empire that also happens to be the greatest economic and military power on the planet. Also, again, the only way to effectively overturn the Castro regime and bring freedom to the Cuban people within any sort of near-immediate time frame is military intervention to oust the Castro regime and then to basically rebuild the country after we bomb the **** out of it. And the most effective way to rebuild Cuba, due to it's proximity would probably be to "temporarily" name it as a territory and effectively remove the sovereignty of the Cuban people.


....or we could normalize trade relations and play a little baseball instead.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Buc2 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:11 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

Like, I said, this is the first step in bringing Cuba back in to the western world. If you think that US influence alone won't eventually cause a paradigm shift within Cuba then you need to go brush up on the mechanics of regional geo-politics, especially between a tiny, mostly irrelevant island nation and a globe spanning empire that also happens to be the greatest economic and military power on the planet. Also, again, the only way to effectively overturn the Castro regime and bring freedom to the Cuban people within any sort of near-immediate time frame is military intervention to oust the Castro regime and then to basically rebuild the country after we bomb the **** out of it. And the most effective way to rebuild Cuba, due to it's proximity would probably be to "temporarily" name it as a territory and effectively remove the sovereignty of the Cuban people.


....or we could normalize trade relations and play a little baseball instead.


Which is what he is trying to get across to Ken if you follow Outsider's convo with him.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:15 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
....or we could normalize trade relations and play a little baseball instead.


Which is what he is trying to get across to Ken if you follow Outsider's convo with him.

I'll use blue font next time. I was agreeing with Outie.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Buc2 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:48 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Buc2 wrote:
Which is what he is trying to get across to Ken if you follow Outsider's convo with him.

I'll use blue font next time. I was agreeing with Outie.


Oops. Sorry about that, MB. Carry on.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:25 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:You think any of this has to do with rights for Cubans? It's the flimsy excuse for a money grab. Like I said, if that's what you want, fine, but won't insult Cuban dissidents and exiles by parading freedom around Havana and then cutting bait when the check clears.



Like, I said, this is the first step in bringing Cuba back in to the western world. If you think that US influence alone won't eventually cause a paradigm shift within Cuba then you need to go brush up on the mechanics of regional geo-politics, especially between a tiny, mostly irrelevant island nation and a globe spanning empire that also happens to be the greatest economic and military power on the planet. Also, again, the only way to effectively overturn the Castro regime and bring freedom to the Cuban people within any sort of near-immediate time frame is military intervention to oust the Castro regime and then to basically rebuild the country after we bomb the **** out of it. And the most effective way to rebuild Cuba, due to it's proximity would probably be to "temporarily" name it as a territory and effectively remove the sovereignty of the Cuban people.


Which other irrelevant nations have succumbed to this type of US influence? Specifically, the influence of pumping a crumbling authoritarian regime full of cash, which it can disperse the wealth (or not) amongst its populace with total discretion.

I think you're living in the bubble of someone who has never experienced a lack of freedom. People in Cuba cannot just start a business. They cannot just buy the supplies necessary to fill purchase orders. They cannot acquire wealth in any meaningful sense. Your plan is to funnel money into the regime that controls these limitations, and by trickle-down economics (hilarious that MB supports this model in Cuba but not here in the States, by the way) float all the boats in Cuba, so to speak.
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Re: Cuba

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:11 pm

Where the **** is that facepalm emoji?

btw, I'm a Keynesian, you doofus.
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