The Robots Are Coming

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:54 am

Wenchy wrote:
Buc2 wrote:
Well, if what you and clw are saying comes to pass, such an automated, and soon to be, jobless society cannot possibly function without some sort of new, currently unknown job source springing up to replace those job losses. Otherwise, the only hope for humanity is if millions (billions?) of people die. Grim would be excited.


Yes, what will happen to those 5 million illegal immigrants' newly found jobs?


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. That we all will have to become tomato pickers or learn to do some other type of menial labor to survive?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Wenchy » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:57 am

No, we all need to learn to do something that can't be automated by BucFanClewiston. Tomato picking is already automated, for the most part.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:14 am

What would you do if you didn't have to work? The answer to that question is the answer to the question of what would you do if there was no work. (survival excluded)
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:27 am

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:51 am

The point from all of this is that we created these machines so as a species we could enjoy life more. We need to start thinking differently about our economy and remove the beliefs of people being out of work due to laziness as that simply will not be the case sooner than we like to think.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:52 am



Lots of theories and conjecture to be sure. No matter what, it seems that the viability of a true middle-class will have come to an end. You either are one of the few whose job wasn't technologically eliminated, or you were able to be retrained in another field, or you become a member of the poor non-working class making a "basic" income from the government. Still seems like it will be a pretty fucked up society if you ask me.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:22 pm

Buc2 wrote:


Lots of theories and conjecture to be sure. No matter what, it seems that the viability of a true middle-class will have come to an end. You either are one of the few whose job wasn't technologically eliminated, or you were able to be retrained in another field, or you become a member of the poor non-working class making a "basic" income from the government. Still seems like it will be a pretty fucked up society if you ask me.


I think the basic income is the right idea. There are umpteen theories on how to pay for it, but they've got half the battle won by eliminating the means tested welfare state. It's like Monopoly. Pass go, collect $200, and move around the board.

Everywhere they have experimented with it, there has been a spike in entrepreneurship.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Plus the "basic income" can get a lot more since costs will be so much lower for companies... That is, if said company wants to remain in business.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:42 pm

It all sounds wonderful. Let's just say, I'm glad I'm close to retirement.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:16 pm

My girlfriend says she hates movies with robots. Especially Transformers.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:18 pm

Caballero wrote:My girlfriend says she hates movies with robots. Especially Transformers.

Nothing left for you to add to the conversation since you were shut down?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:23 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Caballero wrote:My girlfriend says she hates movies with robots. Especially Transformers.

Nothing left for you to add to the conversation since you were shut down?


Shut down when? Everything I posted in this thread is accurate. And my girlfriend hates movie robot. She always tells me that.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby StillCSG » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:48 pm

Caballero wrote:My girlfriend says she hates movies with robots. Especially Transformers.


You paid for a whole day with a lady boy this time??
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:16 pm

I am all for robots.

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Caballero wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Nothing left for you to add to the conversation since you were shut down?


Shut down when? Everything I posted in this thread is accurate. And my girlfriend hates movie robot. She always tells me that.

So sibce you never responded, you must actually think you can perform more calculations per second than a computer? No wonders you like Trump. You both seem to have the same level of delusion.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:55 pm

bucfanclw wrote:No wonders you like Trump. You both seem to have the same level of delusion.


LOL! I'm not denying that. We have similar personalities.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Grim Reaper » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:01 pm

Buc2 wrote:Grim would be excited.

Especially if mankind was struck by a pandemic at the same time...
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:09 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:What would you do if you didn't have to work?


Go into the welfare communities and ask them what it's like now.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:18 pm

Caballero wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:What would you do if you didn't have to work?


Go into the welfare communities and ask them what it's like now.

I'd do some travelling, but to each their own I guess.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:19 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Caballero wrote:
Go into the welfare communities and ask them what it's like now.

I'd do some travelling, but to each their own I guess.


That is if you had the money to travel. Not sure how you get that if you don't work.

Personally, I would stay home and have sex with my robot doll.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:26 pm

Caballero wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:I'd do some travelling, but to each their own I guess.


That is if you had the money to travel. Not sure how you get that if you don't work.

Personally, I would stay home and have sex with my robot doll.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you actually understood the question. Carry on.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:42 pm

Wrestling has already been replaced by robots.

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Caballero » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:44 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Caballero wrote:
That is if you had the money to travel. Not sure how you get that if you don't work.

Personally, I would stay home and have sex with my robot doll.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you actually understood the question. Carry on.


From what I read, they were talking about a "basic income". That's likely going to pay for food, shelter, a robot sex doll, and little else.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:17 pm

Imagine this: as you're worried about how to pay bills and make your rent, you get a check from the government for $876. Every month.

That's what Finland is doing. The Nordic nation is getting closer this month to finalizing a solution to poverty: paying each of its 5.4 million people $876 tax-free a month — and in return, it will do away with welfare benefits, unemployment lines, and the other bureaucracy of its extensive social safety net.

The concept, called basic income, has been a popular source of debate among academics and economists for decades, though Finland would be the first nation in the European Union — and the first major nation anywhere — to actually implement the idea on a universal basis. The basic income was popularized by the economist Milton Friedman in the 1960s as a "negative income tax."

The Finnish proposal, which is still being drafted by the country's social welfare institution, Kela, would reportedly give each Finn 550 euros a month to start.

As a result, Finland would scrap nearly all of its other benefits programs. In Finland, as in the U.S., people get welfare benefits according to their incomes.

In contrast, The universal basic income would go to every citizen regardless of how much money he or she makes — rich or poor. the universal basic income would go to every citizen regardless of how much money he or she makes — rich or poor.


...I'll be very interested to see what happens as this will be the largest scale implementation of this idea ever.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:25 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Imagine this: as you're worried about how to pay bills and make your rent, you get a check from the government for $876. Every month.

That's what Finland is doing. The Nordic nation is getting closer this month to finalizing a solution to poverty: paying each of its 5.4 million people $876 tax-free a month — and in return, it will do away with welfare benefits, unemployment lines, and the other bureaucracy of its extensive social safety net.

The concept, called basic income, has been a popular source of debate among academics and economists for decades, though Finland would be the first nation in the European Union — and the first major nation anywhere — to actually implement the idea on a universal basis. The basic income was popularized by the economist Milton Friedman in the 1960s as a "negative income tax."

The Finnish proposal, which is still being drafted by the country's social welfare institution, Kela, would reportedly give each Finn 550 euros a month to start.

As a result, Finland would scrap nearly all of its other benefits programs. In Finland, as in the U.S., people get welfare benefits according to their incomes.

In contrast, The universal basic income would go to every citizen regardless of how much money he or she makes — rich or poor. the universal basic income would go to every citizen regardless of how much money he or she makes — rich or poor.


...I'll be very interested to see what happens as this will be the largest scale implementation of this idea ever.


It will definitely bare watching.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:42 pm

Interesting.

Wonder how much we spend per capita (not per recipient) on welfare benefits including the benefits as well as the administrative and beareuacratic costs.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:56 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Interesting.

Wonder how much we spend per capita (not per recipient) on welfare benefits including the benefits as well as the administrative and beareuacratic costs.


Estimated as being enough to pay every adult in the country approx. $7600 a year.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:12 pm

Well sign me up for the Finnish model.

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:05 pm

Proponents want $12,000 a year and some even want a smaller stipend per child.

I oppose the child part because it creates a means test and incentivizes having children for money. $1,000 a month is lovely, but I don't think its realistic at this point. The key reason UBI did not pass in 1972 was because Democrats stupidly balked at it being not enough money. They should go with $7500 ($625 p/mo.) and see how we do.

That would be $1,300 a month for a married couple before they ever leave the house in the morning. We could go back to one income families being the mainstream which would pay huge dividends socially. Conservatives should jump at the chance to permanently dismantle the welfare state and abolition of the minimum wage.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Nano » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Too many people(read: Welfare moochers) in this country for it to work here. Hope it works for Finland though. :|
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