The Robots Are Coming

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:41 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

Or are you going with just cutting them off?


Yah, I'm working on it... lol



And for the record, not having a "better idea", does not make a 'bad idea' better...
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:45 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Corsair wrote:I think the point of this discussion is that by all accounts, the workforce cannot evolve quickly enough to accommodate the rapid change that automation will bring.

If that indeed does become the situation, what would be your solution at that point?



My previous posts were about govt handouts. The discussion of giving every singe person money just because they are alive did not have anything to do with automation. The posters who proposed this didn't suggest we start it once this new automation age is upon us. They suggested we should do it now.


As per the usual, MLM is still trying to catch up to the convo... lol
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:50 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Frankly, we're 15-20 years out from automation being a serious issue, but if we don't start taking the steps towards adjusting our economy to compensate now, we're going to be in serious trouble later.


I'm glad we have such an authority on the subject on our board... even better, he's being frank with us!
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:59 pm

RedLeader wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Frankly, we're 15-20 years out from automation being a serious issue, but if we don't start taking the steps towards adjusting our economy to compensate now, we're going to be in serious trouble later.


I'm glad we have such an authority on the subject on our board... even better, he's being frank with us!

Quality contribution as usual there, Aguayo.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:22 pm

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

Or are you going with just cutting them off?


Yah, I'm working on it... lol



And for the record, not having a "better idea", does not make a 'bad idea' better...

You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

Thus far, you are not part of the solution. Primarily because you don't seem to understand the problem.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:29 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
Yah, I'm working on it... lol



And for the record, not having a "better idea", does not make a 'bad idea' better...

You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

Thus far, you are not part of the solution. Primarily because you don't seem to understand the problem.


Except, your solutions always seem to involve some form of handout...

I bet you believe big gubmint can solve just about anything they put our taxes, err, I mean, their minds to, huh?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:46 pm

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

Thus far, you are not part of the solution. Primarily because you don't seem to understand the problem.


Except, your solutions always seem to involve some form of handout...

I bet you believe big gubmint can solve just about anything they put our taxes, err, I mean, their minds to, huh?

Boy, you really know how to dumb down a discussion.

You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Stick around, he and I will maybe get around to discussing the economic impact of large portions of the population with obsolete skills on the market tomorrow.

Did they teach you economics at Mira Costa Community College?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby HamBone » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:00 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
Yah, I'm working on it... lol



And for the record, not having a "better idea", does not make a 'bad idea' better...

You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

Thus far, you are not part of the solution. Primarily because you don't seem to understand the problem.


Posting on here is being part of the solution?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:07 am

HamBone wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

Thus far, you are not part of the solution. Primarily because you don't seem to understand the problem.


Posting on here is being part of the solution?

Yes.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:39 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Wow. That was like saying, "He's full of ****, but he's trying." Throwing that, "at least" in there displayed quite the HTT attitude. If you were physically in the same room with together, I'd wouldn't have been surprised so see you pat him on his head. I don't think you meant what you said to come off like that, but that's how it read to me.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:54 am

Buc2 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Wow. That was like saying, "He's full of ****, but he's trying." Throwing that, "at least" in there displayed quite the HTT attitude. If you were physically in the same room with together, I'd wouldn't have been surprised so see you pat him on his head. I don't think you meant what you said to come off like that, but that's how it read to me.

Don't read that much into that.

Zarni by far has made the best counterpoint to the thread. Just because I disagree with most of it doesn't mean I think he's stupid.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:45 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
Except, your solutions always seem to involve some form of handout...

I bet you believe big gubmint can solve just about anything they put our taxes, err, I mean, their minds to, huh?

Boy, you really know how to dumb down a discussion.

You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Stick around, he and I will maybe get around to discussing the economic impact of large portions of the population with obsolete skills on the market tomorrow.

Did they teach you economics at Mira Costa Community College?


Don't get mad, buddy. I dont blame you for looking for the hand out... you've been conditioned accordingly, I'm sure.


And I can't wait to hear your take on the economic impact of blah, blah, blah - and how big daddy government is going to save us from it.


Please, go on!
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:53 pm

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Boy, you really know how to dumb down a discussion.

You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Stick around, he and I will maybe get around to discussing the economic impact of large portions of the population with obsolete skills on the market tomorrow.

Did they teach you economics at Mira Costa Community College?


Don't get mad, buddy. I dont blame you for looking for the hand out... you've been conditioned accordingly, I'm sure.


And I can't wait to hear your take on the economic impact of blah, blah, blah - and how big daddy government is going to save us from it.


Please, go on!

Oh, you're back.

Look, I get that you don't like the idea of anybody getting anything for nothing and believe it or not I agree with you aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.

But the problem we have been discussing is kinda unique in it's suddeness.

So riddle me this, Batman. If the "free" market is unable to sustain a middle class because the middle class got replaced by robots and software patches, would you have your government do nothing?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby deltbucs » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:47 pm

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Boy, you really know how to dumb down a discussion.

You should read Zarni's posts from today. At least he's thinking critically.

Stick around, he and I will maybe get around to discussing the economic impact of large portions of the population with obsolete skills on the market tomorrow.

Did they teach you economics at Mira Costa Community College?


Don't get mad, buddy. I dont blame you for looking for the hand out... you've been conditioned accordingly, I'm sure.


And I can't wait to hear your take on the economic impact of blah, blah, blah - and how big daddy government is going to save us from it.


Please, go on!

This guy :roll:
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby RedLeader » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:38 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
Don't get mad, buddy. I dont blame you for looking for the hand out... you've been conditioned accordingly, I'm sure.


And I can't wait to hear your take on the economic impact of blah, blah, blah - and how big daddy government is going to save us from it.


Please, go on!

Oh, you're back.

Look, I get that you don't like the idea of anybody getting anything for nothing and believe it or not I agree with you aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.

But the problem we have been discussing is kinda unique in it's suddeness.

So riddle me this, Batman. If the "free" market is unable to sustain a middle class because the middle class got replaced by robots and software patches, would you have your government do nothing?


The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Wharf Rat » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:00 am

RedLeader wrote:Don't get mad, buddy.



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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Wharf Rat » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:08 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.



Lol, you liberals love using that straw man don't you?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:05 am

Wharf Rat wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.



Lol, you liberals love using that straw man don't you?

No, he has already demonstrated a level of distain for the poor.

But he just upped his game so there's no need to keep hammering that tent peg.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:38 am

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Oh, you're back.

Look, I get that you don't like the idea of anybody getting anything for nothing and believe it or not I agree with you aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.

But the problem we have been discussing is kinda unique in it's suddeness.

So riddle me this, Batman. If the "free" market is unable to sustain a middle class because the middle class got replaced by robots and software patches, would you have your government do nothing?


The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.


I'm impressed.

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!


This is my favorite part because it's absolutely correct. There would be no need for a workforce of tens of millions of people. But if that occurs, how do people make a living? How do we have an economy?

There ARE things out there that you cannot replace, a robot cannot provide hospice care, for example. Things that require that human element. But how much of an economy would we still have on those things alone? Asking me to simply "have faith" that the free market will fix it is simply not enough for me. You mentioned the artisan and the craftsman. I think you are on the right track there as far as the future of work, the trades already rival the white collar sector in earnings for equal years of experience but how long will that last?

I'm surprised that you are not more concerned about these questions aside from the fact that this entire discussion is academic here. From where I'm sitting, Capitalism itself is threatened by this for the very reasons you articulated. No work=no pay. No pay=no consumption. No consumption=No economy.

Perhaps the need for money itself goes away. India is already trying to transition to a cashless society where all financial transactions are electronic. That is not without it's issues with respect to privacy and the ability to send your kid to the corner store with a dollar to buy a piece of candy. But if we are talking about having the capacity to manufacture 24/7 every possible object a human being needs for not just survival, but a comfortable existence. Do you even NEED to have money in the first place except to buy luxuries?

They call that the "Star Trek Economy" and even I will concede that there is little chance that happens in my children's lives let alone my own. But that's the whole point of the discussion. Humanity has gone from tribal, to agrarian, to feudal, to monarch, to industrial, to information......to what? What is the next step?
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:58 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.


I'm impressed.

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!


This is my favorite part because it's absolutely correct. There would be no need for a workforce of tens of millions of people. But if that occurs, how do people make a living? How do we have an economy?

There ARE things out there that you cannot replace, a robot cannot provide hospice care, for example. Things that require that human element. But how much of an economy would we still have on those things alone? Asking me to simply "have faith" that the free market will fix it is simply not enough for me. You mentioned the artisan and the craftsman. I think you are on the right track there as far as the future of work, the trades already rival the white collar sector in earnings for equal years of experience but how long will that last?

I'm surprised that you are not more concerned about these questions aside from the fact that this entire discussion is academic here. From where I'm sitting, Capitalism itself is threatened by this for the very reasons you articulated. No work=no pay. No pay=no consumption. No consumption=No economy.

Perhaps the need for money itself goes away. India is already trying to transition to a cashless society where all financial transactions are electronic. That is not without it's issues with respect to privacy and the ability to send your kid to the corner store with a dollar to buy a piece of candy. But if we are talking about having the capacity to manufacture 24/7 every possible object a human being needs for not just survival, but a comfortable existence. Do you even NEED to have money in the first place except to buy luxuries?

They call that the "Star Trek Economy" and even I will concede that there is little chance that happens in my children's lives let alone my own. But that's the whole point of the discussion. Humanity has gone from tribal, to agrarian, to feudal, to monarch, to industrial, to information......to what? What is the next step?


Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it sounds like you are misinterpreting what India's cashless society is. "Money" is still extremely relevant, they simply do not use paper cash, which a growing number of Americans do the same. (I don't think I've had cash in my wallet in over a year)...but "money" is still involved. They need to have funds in their bank accounts connected to their app to buy things. Money either given by the government or earned at their workplace.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:05 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
I'm impressed.



This is my favorite part because it's absolutely correct. There would be no need for a workforce of tens of millions of people. But if that occurs, how do people make a living? How do we have an economy?

There ARE things out there that you cannot replace, a robot cannot provide hospice care, for example. Things that require that human element. But how much of an economy would we still have on those things alone? Asking me to simply "have faith" that the free market will fix it is simply not enough for me. You mentioned the artisan and the craftsman. I think you are on the right track there as far as the future of work, the trades already rival the white collar sector in earnings for equal years of experience but how long will that last?

I'm surprised that you are not more concerned about these questions aside from the fact that this entire discussion is academic here. From where I'm sitting, Capitalism itself is threatened by this for the very reasons you articulated. No work=no pay. No pay=no consumption. No consumption=No economy.

Perhaps the need for money itself goes away. India is already trying to transition to a cashless society where all financial transactions are electronic. That is not without it's issues with respect to privacy and the ability to send your kid to the corner store with a dollar to buy a piece of candy. But if we are talking about having the capacity to manufacture 24/7 every possible object a human being needs for not just survival, but a comfortable existence. Do you even NEED to have money in the first place except to buy luxuries?

They call that the "Star Trek Economy" and even I will concede that there is little chance that happens in my children's lives let alone my own. But that's the whole point of the discussion. Humanity has gone from tribal, to agrarian, to feudal, to monarch, to industrial, to information......to what? What is the next step?


Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it sounds like you are misinterpreting what India's cashless society is. "Money" is still extremely relevant, they simply do not use paper cash, which a growing number of Americans do the same. (I don't think I've had cash in my wallet in over a year)...but "money" is still involved. They need to have funds in their bank accounts connected to their app to buy things. Money either given by the government or earned at their workplace.


I understand that. It is cashless, not moneyless that India is shooting for. What I was doing was connecting the dots to the possibility that once tangible money is gone, money itself could be next. That is a pretty radical concept that is a loooong way from being seriously considered. But it is not unthinkable that we could get there someday.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:11 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it sounds like you are misinterpreting what India's cashless society is. "Money" is still extremely relevant, they simply do not use paper cash, which a growing number of Americans do the same. (I don't think I've had cash in my wallet in over a year)...but "money" is still involved. They need to have funds in their bank accounts connected to their app to buy things. Money either given by the government or earned at their workplace.


I understand that. It is cashless, not moneyless that India is shooting for. What I was doing was connecting the dots to the possibility that once tangible money is gone, money itself could be next. That is a pretty radical concept that is a loooong way from being seriously considered. But it is not unthinkable that we could get there someday.


There is no logical step or leap from replacing paper money to digital money to no one using money at all, maybe that's why it came off as you misunderstanding what they are doing. I cannot ever see a time where money will be irrelevant by choice. Unless some apocalyptic situation occurs, we will always rely on money/wealth is some facet.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:15 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
I understand that. It is cashless, not moneyless that India is shooting for. What I was doing was connecting the dots to the possibility that once tangible money is gone, money itself could be next. That is a pretty radical concept that is a loooong way from being seriously considered. But it is not unthinkable that we could get there someday.


There is no logical step or leap from replacing paper money to digital money to no one using money at all, maybe that's why it came off as you misunderstanding what they are doing. I cannot ever see a time where money will be irrelevant by choice. Unless some apocalyptic situation occurs, we will always rely on money/wealth is some facet.

I'll let your point stand as I don't want to venture too far down that rabbit hole.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:19 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
There is no logical step or leap from replacing paper money to digital money to no one using money at all, maybe that's why it came off as you misunderstanding what they are doing. I cannot ever see a time where money will be irrelevant by choice. Unless some apocalyptic situation occurs, we will always rely on money/wealth is some facet.

I'll let your point stand as I don't want to venture too far down that rabbit hole.


Fair enough.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:56 am

RedLeader wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Oh, you're back.

Look, I get that you don't like the idea of anybody getting anything for nothing and believe it or not I agree with you aside from your hating on the dirty poor people.

But the problem we have been discussing is kinda unique in it's suddeness.

So riddle me this, Batman. If the "free" market is unable to sustain a middle class because the middle class got replaced by robots and software patches, would you have your government do nothing?


The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.


dude I hate to say this, but just like a lot of the other "guv'ment needs to get aht the way!" guys, I don't think you have the slightest idea about the complexity of the problems society faces, and what a positive role the federal government, or any government actually plays. All you hear about is "waste this" and "corrupt that", which is absolutely true, but guess what - those are human problems, not inherently governmental problems. You say there's a propensity for inefficiency with government? that is a manifestation of human failures. Humans run governments. And if they are corrupt actors within a framework system, you cannot absolve some individual's actions just because he's acting within that framework. You anti-"guv'ment" guys are so supportive of self-determination and want people to be held accountable for their actions when it comes to "taking hand outs", but you seem to have no problem with giving people free passes just because "they're politicians". That's a cop out to me. That's defeatist. People deserve blame. Because when you begin absolving people of their sins, just because the system they're in, you stop being critical about what actually works. You then give the system a free pass

You want the government to get out of the way? Guess what. They did. For the past 40 years, we've had unabated capitalism in this country, while the world has reached its fully-discovered, zero-sum form, and what did we get from this wild west attitude towards the economy? We got 2 bail outs. THAT YOU PAID FOR. We got the most obscene levels of wealth concentration ever seen in human history. And thanks to the fact that the world is now a zero-sum game, that wealth is essentially taken from you; its why jobs are ****, its why they pay ****, its why this generation will be the first generation to EVER make less money by the time they're 30 than the previous generation did. It's why nobody can ****ing buy a house, its why mothers have to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth, and cut 75% of their check just to pay for the child care that's going to watch their child. The unabated capitalism, the worshiping of absolute greed in this country has fucked the rest of this country over.

You say "government needs to get out of the way", but do you really know what that means? That means no regulations. That means no tariffs. That means no protection for the American people. If people had honor, then we wouldn't have to worry about rules and regulations, but they don't. We are inherently flawed, as human beings, and those flaws are the same type of flaws that ruin government for you. So when government "gets out of the way", you know what happens? You end up with motherfuckers, who are born in this country, who take advantage of every beautiful thing this country and its society has cultivated (talking about somebody born in the 60s, that is now participating in a leadership role today), who undoubtedly received public education; you have them grow up, run a successful business, and because they're a smart person, and because there's no rules against it, and because at the end of the day, to be successful you must use every available tool at your disposal, they decide to close down their factories in the US, ship their jobs over to Indonesia, because **** it, everybody else is doing it, and there's no human rights standards over there, and their labor costs 1/100th of what it would cost to pay a US citizen to do the same thing, and then they get so rich doing so, that ****, he's gotta figure out what to do with all this money, so he calls up his banker buddy and his banker buddy tells him "look dude, surprisingly, there's no ****ing rules about moving your money offshore, and you can avoid paying taxes to the US government, its the smart thing to do and everybody's doing it". Maybe that guy pauses for a moment and asks himself, "wait, now I'm not giving back to the system that helped me get to where I am, in any way shape or form, except for selling t-shirts to these ham and eggers"... maybe he considers for one second that he is essentially raping society. He probably doesn't. He probably says "**** it, imma get mines" and tells his buddy "**** yeah, work the rules my man, get me everything I ****ing can". Then that guy sits on his sequestered pile of cash, that will NEVER see the American economy again, unless he decides to inject it back in in the form of campaign ads, where he can essentially buy the rule changes that he'd like.

This piece of **** has the exact same shitty human attributes that you so despise in "gibs me dat" broke motherfuckers, and "corrupt government" motherfuckers. People are ****ing ****, end of the day, but you need to recognize what a chump (sorry) you sound like giving a free pass to the pieces of **** that are actually ruining the economy, the government, and thus society.

We live in a zero-sum world now. We know what the outer boundaries look like. Every move one person makes, it affects every other person within the game. You. Have. To. Realize. This. We are ALL tethered to eachother, and no amount of absolution of government (which, sorry, anarchy is not a ****ing way of living, and if you thought about it seriously, you'd know that too), will ever bring us back to that untethered existence. You cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. Everything you rely on every single moment of your life is too complex. And if you want to say "well not me" - fine, then every moment of every other one of the 7 billion people on this planet. And some ****er in Japan or some guy in France likes his life way too much to just hit "stop" on the game. It's not stopping. It's only getting more complex. We are only getting more connected.

I get your idea of "letting the market figure it out". I love success. I'm not interested in limiting success. But we have to recognize that we already play in a game that founded on a framework of rules. All I'm suggesting is that EVERYBODY be held to those rules, so that the spoils of winning this game do not allow these individual actors to grow beyond the game and allow them to exist, and even more, tilt the field like some giants looking down on a tabletop game. I do have faith in the overall amoeba of human existence, of figuring out what works. But I just have a huge issue with the reality of what you "screw the guv'ment" people are proposing. As much faith as I have in the collective, I have zero faith in the individual. And we have seen over the past 50 years or so, the co-opting of the american dream by probably a total of 5,000 people, who have essentially stolen the futures of millions of americans because of their unabated greed and their garnered support of the masses that hold, quite frankly, very simple views of systems, economies, and governments


I'll get back to the other ****, about your questions of "who makes what for who", if MB's answer wasn't sufficient enough, and you don't already see how you're inherently talking about the breakdown of a capitalist society, which is exactly why we're exploring other types of economies - but I've got to get back to work
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby mightyleemoon » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:36 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.


dude I hate to say this, but just like a lot of the other "guv'ment needs to get aht the way!" guys, I don't think you have the slightest idea about the complexity of the problems society faces, and what a positive role the federal government, or any government actually plays. All you hear about is "waste this" and "corrupt that", which is absolutely true, but guess what - those are human problems, not inherently governmental problems. You say there's a propensity for inefficiency with government? that is a manifestation of human failures. Humans run governments. And if they are corrupt actors within a framework system, you cannot absolve some individual's actions just because he's acting within that framework. You anti-"guv'ment" guys are so supportive of self-determination and want people to be held accountable for their actions when it comes to "taking hand outs", but you seem to have no problem with giving people free passes just because "they're politicians". That's a cop out to me. That's defeatist. People deserve blame. Because when you begin absolving people of their sins, just because the system they're in, you stop being critical about what actually works. You then give the system a free pass

You want the government to get out of the way? Guess what. They did. For the past 40 years, we've had unabated capitalism in this country, while the world has reached its fully-discovered, zero-sum form, and what did we get from this wild west attitude towards the economy? We got 2 bail outs. THAT YOU PAID FOR. We got the most obscene levels of wealth concentration ever seen in human history. And thanks to the fact that the world is now a zero-sum game, that wealth is essentially taken from you; its why jobs are ****, its why they pay ****, its why this generation will be the first generation to EVER make less money by the time they're 30 than the previous generation did. It's why nobody can ****ing buy a house, its why mothers have to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth, and cut 75% of their check just to pay for the child care that's going to watch their child. The unabated capitalism, the worshiping of absolute greed in this country has fucked the rest of this country over.

You say "government needs to get out of the way", but do you really know what that means? That means no regulations. That means no tariffs. That means no protection for the American people. If people had honor, then we wouldn't have to worry about rules and regulations, but they don't. We are inherently flawed, as human beings, and those flaws are the same type of flaws that ruin government for you. So when government "gets out of the way", you know what happens? You end up with motherfuckers, who are born in this country, who take advantage of every beautiful thing this country and its society has cultivated (talking about somebody born in the 60s, that is now participating in a leadership role today), who undoubtedly received public education; you have them grow up, run a successful business, and because they're a smart person, and because there's no rules against it, and because at the end of the day, to be successful you must use every available tool at your disposal, they decide to close down their factories in the US, ship their jobs over to Indonesia, because **** it, everybody else is doing it, and there's no human rights standards over there, and their labor costs 1/100th of what it would cost to pay a US citizen to do the same thing, and then they get so rich doing so, that ****, he's gotta figure out what to do with all this money, so he calls up his banker buddy and his banker buddy tells him "look dude, surprisingly, there's no ****ing rules about moving your money offshore, and you can avoid paying taxes to the US government, its the smart thing to do and everybody's doing it". Maybe that guy pauses for a moment and asks himself, "wait, now I'm not giving back to the system that helped me get to where I am, in any way shape or form, except for selling t-shirts to these ham and eggers"... maybe he considers for one second that he is essentially raping society. He probably doesn't. He probably says "**** it, imma get mines" and tells his buddy "**** yeah, work the rules my man, get me everything I ****ing can". Then that guy sits on his sequestered pile of cash, that will NEVER see the American economy again, unless he decides to inject it back in in the form of campaign ads, where he can essentially buy the rule changes that he'd like.

This piece of **** has the exact same shitty human attributes that you so despise in "gibs me dat" broke motherfuckers, and "corrupt government" motherfuckers. People are ****ing ****, end of the day, but you need to recognize what a chump (sorry) you sound like giving a free pass to the pieces of **** that are actually ruining the economy, the government, and thus society.

We live in a zero-sum world now. We know what the outer boundaries look like. Every move one person makes, it affects every other person within the game. You. Have. To. Realize. This. We are ALL tethered to eachother, and no amount of absolution of government (which, sorry, anarchy is not a ****ing way of living, and if you thought about it seriously, you'd know that too), will ever bring us back to that untethered existence. You cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. Everything you rely on every single moment of your life is too complex. And if you want to say "well not me" - fine, then every moment of every other one of the 7 billion people on this planet. And some ****er in Japan or some guy in France likes his life way too much to just hit "stop" on the game. It's not stopping. It's only getting more complex. We are only getting more connected.

I get your idea of "letting the market figure it out". I love success. I'm not interested in limiting success. But we have to recognize that we already play in a game that founded on a framework of rules. All I'm suggesting is that EVERYBODY be held to those rules, so that the spoils of winning this game do not allow these individual actors to grow beyond the game and allow them to exist, and even more, tilt the field like some giants looking down on a tabletop game. I do have faith in the overall amoeba of human existence, of figuring out what works. But I just have a huge issue with the reality of what you "screw the guv'ment" people are proposing. As much faith as I have in the collective, I have zero faith in the individual. And we have seen over the past 50 years or so, the co-opting of the american dream by probably a total of 5,000 people, who have essentially stolen the futures of millions of americans because of their unabated greed and their garnered support of the masses that hold, quite frankly, very simple views of systems, economies, and governments


I'll get back to the other ****, about your questions of "who makes what for who", if MB's answer wasn't sufficient enough, and you don't already see how you're inherently talking about the breakdown of a capitalist society, which is exactly why we're exploring other types of economies - but I've got to get back to work


I feel like I saw this picture and it starred Ralph Fiennes or something...
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:36 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
The best thing the government can do is get out of the way... I agree - most certainly, there will have to be a market evolution, but, quite honestly - and this may seem oversimplified - but I trust that the people will figure it out.

So some of us may have to learn how to make things again... so what. Who the **** wants to really spend their life atrophied behind a ****ing truck anyway? Or locking your wrists up crunching someone elses numbers day in and day out? Who's to say machines won't free most folks from their tired mundane existence so they can pursue true happiness instead?

Heck, we may see the return of the artisan, the craftsman, the smith, the maker, the poet, the thinker.. the BUILDER! You'll see a entirely new market for the hand-made... We could be on the precipice of human enlightenment, here, people!I ;)

In the end, if we fail to evolve in time, and everyone is replaced and out of work... what the **** are all the robots going to be making anyway.. and for whom?!

Bottom line, you either lack faith in the people and the free market (somewhat surprising for you), or you're looking for someway to pay your house note. Either way, letting the government put every American citizen on its payroll (read: 'teet') is a lazy way to go about it.


dude I hate to say this, but just like a lot of the other "guv'ment needs to get aht the way!" guys, I don't think you have the slightest idea about the complexity of the problems society faces, and what a positive role the federal government, or any government actually plays. All you hear about is "waste this" and "corrupt that", which is absolutely true, but guess what - those are human problems, not inherently governmental problems. You say there's a propensity for inefficiency with government? that is a manifestation of human failures. Humans run governments. And if they are corrupt actors within a framework system, you cannot absolve some individual's actions just because he's acting within that framework. You anti-"guv'ment" guys are so supportive of self-determination and want people to be held accountable for their actions when it comes to "taking hand outs", but you seem to have no problem with giving people free passes just because "they're politicians". That's a cop out to me. That's defeatist. People deserve blame. Because when you begin absolving people of their sins, just because the system they're in, you stop being critical about what actually works. You then give the system a free pass

You want the government to get out of the way? Guess what. They did. For the past 40 years, we've had unabated capitalism in this country, while the world has reached its fully-discovered, zero-sum form, and what did we get from this wild west attitude towards the economy? We got 2 bail outs. THAT YOU PAID FOR. We got the most obscene levels of wealth concentration ever seen in human history. And thanks to the fact that the world is now a zero-sum game, that wealth is essentially taken from you; its why jobs are ****, its why they pay ****, its why this generation will be the first generation to EVER make less money by the time they're 30 than the previous generation did. It's why nobody can ****ing buy a house, its why mothers have to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth, and cut 75% of their check just to pay for the child care that's going to watch their child. The unabated capitalism, the worshiping of absolute greed in this country has fucked the rest of this country over.

You say "government needs to get out of the way", but do you really know what that means? That means no regulations. That means no tariffs. That means no protection for the American people. If people had honor, then we wouldn't have to worry about rules and regulations, but they don't. We are inherently flawed, as human beings, and those flaws are the same type of flaws that ruin government for you. So when government "gets out of the way", you know what happens? You end up with motherfuckers, who are born in this country, who take advantage of every beautiful thing this country and its society has cultivated (talking about somebody born in the 60s, that is now participating in a leadership role today), who undoubtedly received public education; you have them grow up, run a successful business, and because they're a smart person, and because there's no rules against it, and because at the end of the day, to be successful you must use every available tool at your disposal, they decide to close down their factories in the US, ship their jobs over to Indonesia, because **** it, everybody else is doing it, and there's no human rights standards over there, and their labor costs 1/100th of what it would cost to pay a US citizen to do the same thing, and then they get so rich doing so, that ****, he's gotta figure out what to do with all this money, so he calls up his banker buddy and his banker buddy tells him "look dude, surprisingly, there's no ****ing rules about moving your money offshore, and you can avoid paying taxes to the US government, its the smart thing to do and everybody's doing it". Maybe that guy pauses for a moment and asks himself, "wait, now I'm not giving back to the system that helped me get to where I am, in any way shape or form, except for selling t-shirts to these ham and eggers"... maybe he considers for one second that he is essentially raping society. He probably doesn't. He probably says "**** it, imma get mines" and tells his buddy "**** yeah, work the rules my man, get me everything I ****ing can". Then that guy sits on his sequestered pile of cash, that will NEVER see the American economy again, unless he decides to inject it back in in the form of campaign ads, where he can essentially buy the rule changes that he'd like.

This piece of **** has the exact same shitty human attributes that you so despise in "gibs me dat" broke motherfuckers, and "corrupt government" motherfuckers. People are ****ing ****, end of the day, but you need to recognize what a chump (sorry) you sound like giving a free pass to the pieces of **** that are actually ruining the economy, the government, and thus society.

We live in a zero-sum world now. We know what the outer boundaries look like. Every move one person makes, it affects every other person within the game. You. Have. To. Realize. This. We are ALL tethered to eachother, and no amount of absolution of government (which, sorry, anarchy is not a ****ing way of living, and if you thought about it seriously, you'd know that too), will ever bring us back to that untethered existence. You cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. Everything you rely on every single moment of your life is too complex. And if you want to say "well not me" - fine, then every moment of every other one of the 7 billion people on this planet. And some ****er in Japan or some guy in France likes his life way too much to just hit "stop" on the game. It's not stopping. It's only getting more complex. We are only getting more connected.

I get your idea of "letting the market figure it out". I love success. I'm not interested in limiting success. But we have to recognize that we already play in a game that founded on a framework of rules. All I'm suggesting is that EVERYBODY be held to those rules, so that the spoils of winning this game do not allow these individual actors to grow beyond the game and allow them to exist, and even more, tilt the field like some giants looking down on a tabletop game. I do have faith in the overall amoeba of human existence, of figuring out what works. But I just have a huge issue with the reality of what you "screw the guv'ment" people are proposing. As much faith as I have in the collective, I have zero faith in the individual. And we have seen over the past 50 years or so, the co-opting of the american dream by probably a total of 5,000 people, who have essentially stolen the futures of millions of americans because of their unabated greed and their garnered support of the masses that hold, quite frankly, very simple views of systems, economies, and governments


I'll get back to the other ****, about your questions of "who makes what for who", if MB's answer wasn't sufficient enough, and you don't already see how you're inherently talking about the breakdown of a capitalist society, which is exactly why we're exploring other types of economies - but I've got to get back to work


Hence the reason many of us say BOTH sides suck. Because BOTH sides really want the same thing. Control of us. The only difference is how they think that control should be wielded.

Hell...Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Maybe I should just quit my job and let 'gubment take care of me and just let them do whatever they want.
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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby mightyleemoon » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:39 pm

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby Buc2 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm

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Re: The Robots Are Coming

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:50 pm

Lmao legit laughing out loud at those faces
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