Obamacare Repeal Question

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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Wharf Rat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:52 pm

Corsair wrote:Which makes the timing so important.

They will not wait for a full OGE score, and they won't hold hearings where Democrats can respond. So much for the "proper order" that McCain requested. They will attempt to push this through similar to how they did the skinny repeal. Except this plan is much worse for the people, basically eliminating protections for Pre Existing Conditions. They will rush this through before the end of the month hoping people aren't watching.

People will die BECAUSE of this law but Republicans are desperate for a win.

This bill will have HUGE implications in the mid terms.


Hmm...kind of reminds me of the time that the Dems pushed the ACA through to begin with. Remember when Pelosi said we'd have to pass it to see what's in it? Good times.

Not saying I endorse this republican effort. I just find this post funny.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Wharf Rat wrote:
Corsair wrote:Which makes the timing so important.

They will not wait for a full OGE score, and they won't hold hearings where Democrats can respond. So much for the "proper order" that McCain requested. They will attempt to push this through similar to how they did the skinny repeal. Except this plan is much worse for the people, basically eliminating protections for Pre Existing Conditions. They will rush this through before the end of the month hoping people aren't watching.

People will die BECAUSE of this law but Republicans are desperate for a win.

This bill will have HUGE implications in the mid terms.


Hmm...kind of reminds me of the time that the Dems pushed the ACA through to begin with. Remember when Pelosi said we'd have to pass it to see what's in it? Good times.

Not saying I endorse this republican effort. I just find this post funny.


Hearings and Public Testimony

According to Mark Peterson, chair of the UCLA Department of Public Policy, one easy metric by which to judge transparency is the number of hearings held during the development of a bill, as well as the different voices heard during those hearings. So far, the GOP repeal efforts have been subject to zero public hearings.

In contrast, the ACA was debated in three House committees and two Senate committees, and subject to hours of bipartisan debate that allowed for the introduction of amendments. Peterson told us in an e-mail that he “can’t recall any major piece of legislation that was completely devoid of public forums of any kind, and that were crafted outside of the normal committee and subcommittee structure to this extent” (referring to the AHCA).


Bipartisan Debate

Another metric one could use to look at legislative transparency is the extent to which the opposition party was included in the process. The ACA passed without a single Republican vote, but the contents of the bill were nonetheless made available to both parties multiple times throughout its development, as described by the New York Times:

In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009.


Senate Republicans, in the case of their efforts to repeal the ACA, have indicated that they do not intend to work with Democrats on the bill, and so far both the House bill and the new Senate effort lack input from the Democratic party. John Cornyn, the number two Republican in the Senate, flatly told the New York Times in March 2017 that “we’re not going to do this with Democrats”. Other Republicans that are not part of the working group have been left out of the process as well.

While it remains to be seen whether or not McConnell will allow much time for debate or amendments on the final version of their bill, the procedural decisions they have made thus far suggest an effort to expedite the process. This bill will be introduced as a “reconciliation bill”, which by law must be related to budgetary policy, and which comes with a series of advantages for bills that are politically controversial, as described by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
Created by the Congressional Budget Act of 1974, reconciliation allows for expedited consideration of certain tax, spending, and debt limit legislation. In the Senate, reconciliation bills aren’t subject to filibuster and the scope of amendments is limited, giving this process real advantages for enacting controversial budget and tax measures.


Under this law, debate on the bill would be limited to 20 hours, and the focus of any amendment introduced by democrats would, by legal requirement, be limited in scope. Washington University political science professor Steven Smith, an expert in congressional rules and procedures, told us that “this effectively means that a major Democratic alternative would not be in order.”



“Closed Door Sessions”

Critics of the ACA’s transparency point to closed door meetings with insurance industry representatives as evidence of its lack of transparency. These meetings did indeed happen, but according to Peterson there is “no comparison” between the two bills in terms of secrecy.

UCLA School of Law professor Allison Hoffman told us she agrees with that assessment, noting that the process behind the Senate version of the bill has been so secretive as to preclude even having potentially shady backroom negotiations with industry representatives in the first place. “They’re not even meeting with constituent groups at this point,” she told us via e-mail.

As there is no metric we can think of that would put the AHCA’s development, nascent as it may be, in a position to be more transparent than the ACA, we rank the claim of equal secrecy behind the ACA and AHCA as false. Instead we concur with the assessment provided by Julie Rovner, who Vox describes as “arguably the dean of the DC health care press corps”:

The extreme secrecy is a situation without precedent, at least in creating health care law.



Your whataboutism talking points are cute and predictable, but ultimately wrong.

Like everything you post in this forum.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Buc2 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:20 pm

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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:25 pm

So he is correct? The ACA didn't go through hearings, amendments, and bipartisan debate?

Or is it your summation that the ACA and AHCA have had the same amount of bipartisan discussion?

I wasn't combating his opinion, I was proving his facts wrong.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby deltbucs » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:42 pm

Corsair wrote:So he is correct? The ACA didn't go through hearings, amendments, and bipartisan debate?

Or is it your summation that the ACA and AHCA have had the same amount of bipartisan discussion?

I wasn't combating his opinion, I was proving his facts wrong.

You do know that neither of them have the guts to actually reply, discuss, and learn the facts about this like adults, right? Their team good and your team bad. That's all that matters.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Buc2 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:40 pm

You do know that no matter what I (or anyone else) say's contrary to whatever crap Corsair posts, the source of the information will be ridiculed. Therefore I don't bother. Corsair posts crap from all over and if anyone dares disagree, he's right and they're wrong. Period. End of discussion. So you can take your comment and pound sand. You and Corsair rarely "adult" in these threads. Back when I actually cared, I used to try and discuss. Not anymore. It's not worth my time.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby deltbucs » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Buc2 wrote:You do know that no matter what I (or anyone else) say's contrary to whatever crap Corsair posts, the source of the information will be ridiculed. Therefore I don't bother. Corsair posts crap from all over and if anyone dares disagree, he's right and they're wrong. Period. End of discussion. So you can take your comment and pound sand. You and Corsair rarely "adult" in these threads. Back when I actually cared, I used to try and discuss. Not anymore. It's not worth my time.

Right...So what I said. You just want to ridicule him and whine that someone might ridicule you too? Corsair gets ridiculed more than anyone on this forum. ****...I ridicule him as much as anyone. That doesn't stop either of us from posting what we believe in and trying to bring facts to the table.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:31 pm

What Are the Potential Effects of the Graham-Cassidy ACA Repeal-and-Replace Bill? Past Estimates Provide Some Clues

Wednesday, September 20, 2017
By Sara R. Collins

Last week, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) and Bill Cassidy (R–La.) unveiled congressional Republicans’ latest bill to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA). The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has indicated that it will not release a score of the bill that includes its effects on insurance coverage for several weeks, but Senate leaders have indicated they will hold a vote without a score. The bill, however, is similar to prior ACA repeal-and-replace bills for which we do have CBO scores. Based on those estimates, it is likely that the bill, if enacted, would lead to a loss of health insurance for at least 32 million people after 2026.

The bill can be boiled down to five key provisions:

Repeals the ACA marketplace subsidies and federal funding for the Medicaid expansion in 2020.
Creates temporary block grants for states that end in 2026. States can use the funds for a wide range of purposes.
Repeals the individual and employer mandates.
Creates a waiver program for states that would allow insurers to charge people more based on their health and cut benefits like maternity care.
Places per capita spending limits on funding for the traditional Medicaid program.

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Repeal with Temporary Block Grants. The bill repeals the ACA’s marketplace subsidies and Medicaid expansion, which currently cover about 30 million people. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) estimates Graham-Cassidy would cut $239 billion from current spending levels, and then divide the remaining funding among states according to a complicated block-grant scheme that results in gains for some states at the expense of deep losses in other states. CBPP projects that the states that would lose the most funding are those that expanded Medicaid, including highly populated states like California and New York.

But all of that grant funding vanishes after 2026. CBO estimated the effects of a repeal of the ACA’s subsidies and Medicaid expansion in January. The bottom line: elimination of those provisions in combination with a repeal of the law’s individual mandate could lead to a loss of health insurance coverage for at least 32 million people. Compounding the coverage losses, Leighton Ku and colleagues at George Washington University have estimated that a repeal of the coverage expansions would have severe nationwide economic effects, leading to a loss of 2.6 million jobs.

Ingredients for Individual Market Instability. While supporters of the Graham-Cassidy bill claim it is market-based, it contains the ingredients for market instability, including the immediate repeal of the penalties for the individual mandate requiring health insurance. CBO’s prior analyses of the elimination of the individual mandate found that 15 million to 18 million people would become uninsured in the first full plan year after enactment (in this case 2019), as people dropped their coverage from all sources and insurers left the marketplaces. CBO also projected that premiums in the individual market would climb by 15 percent to 20 percent in the first plan year. The majority of that increase would come from the repeal of the mandate penalties: insurers would expect that those who remained in the pool would be the least healthy. And as the CBPP has pointed out, uncertainty over how states would use their block-grant funding would likely lead to even greater instability in the individual market.

Graham and Cassidy try to stem these potential market imbalances in two ways. The bill would bring back the temporary premium stabilization funds for insurers featured in both the Senate and House bills, but only for two years. Then it would allow states to apply for waivers that would let insurers charge people with health problems higher premiums, and change other ACA consumer protections such as bans on lifetime benefit limits and comprehensive coverage requirements. CBO’s analyses of a similar waiver in the House-passed American Health Care Act estimated that half the U.S. population could live in states that would likely take up such waivers, shutting out millions of older adults and people with health problems from the individual market, as in the pre-ACA days.

Reaching Beyond the ACA into Medicaid.
The Graham-Cassidy bill, like the earlier Senate and House bills, reaches well beyond the ACA and makes the deepest cuts in the Medicaid program since its inception in 1965. Like those prior bills, it places a per-enrollee cap on what the federal government provides to states for their programs. This cap would threaten the health care of an additional 65 million people who depend on the program, including the elderly, disabled, children, pregnant women, and very poor adults. Cindy Mann and colleagues at Manatt Health Solutions estimated that the spending caps in a version of the Senate repeal-and-replace bill earlier this summer would result in federal spending cuts of $172 billion over 2020 to 2026. And Al Dobson and colleagues found that, under the House-passed bill, the per-capita caps in that bill would result in a loss of $3.6 billion in revenues for safety-net hospitals alone over 10 years. The Graham-Cassidy bill imposes tighter annual limits in later years than both these bills, so losses may exceed these earlier estimates.

A Need for Public Discussion and Bipartisanship on Health Care


By repealing the ACA’s coverage expansions and cutting deeply into the Medicaid program, the Graham-Cassidy bill threatens the health care of as many as 100 million people, from newborns to the elderly. The fundamental purpose of insurance coverage — that it is essential to enabling people in the United States to get timely access to health care — has been sorely missing from this year’s debate over the future of our nation’s health insurance system. This is partly because of the lack of Congressional hearings on the Graham-Cassidy bill and its House and Senate repeal-and-replace predecessors. In stark contrast, the hearings held this month by Sens. Lamar Alexander (R–Tenn.) and Patty Murray (D–Wash.) to inform their search for a bipartisan solution to the ACA’s marketplaces have allowed for a vetting of options and their potential effects. Public discussion and deliberation may not guarantee sound, bipartisan policy solutions, but they at least enable their possibility.


202-224-3121
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:03 pm

The Republican Plan to Repeal Obamacare for Everybody But Alaska Might Be Unconstitutional
By Jonathan Chait

“We’re very interested in helping Alaska because Alaska has 750,000 people. And a land mass bigger than Texas,” Senator Lindsey Graham told reporters the other day. Graham may not understand much about health-care policy, but he understands politics, and he recognizes that a state with a tiny population whose senator represents the crucial vote on his Obamacare-repeal bill is ripe for a payoff.

Graham’s bill gives Alaska especially generous treatment. Haley Byrd reports that Republicans are offering an even more magnanimous bargain — a complete exemption from the deep cuts to Medicaid and tax credits that other states will suffer. Juliet Eilperin reports that the exemption from the cuts would apply to Alaska and Montana only — the two states would qualify on the basis of their low population density. Obamacare would be repealed in the other states, but suspiciously live on in a state whose vote Republican need really badly.

Aside from both the political ethics in general and what this reveals about the Republican argument about repealing Obamacare in particular (i.e., it exposes the notion that other states will be unharmed by its cuts), this maneuver may well be unconstitutional.

Georgetown law professor Brian Galle explains that the Constitution has a uniformity clause — Article I, section 8 of the Constitution says “all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.” The purpose of the clause is to prevent coalitions of states from ganging up on others to impose discriminatory treatment.

The clause has not been tested before, but that is only because there are few cases in which the people running the government have passed a law so blatantly discriminatory.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:51 pm

The bipartisan Medicaid Directors from all 50 states just issued this negative statement about Graham-Cassidy.


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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:27 pm

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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:56 pm

Breaking: McCain "I cannot in good conscience" vote for the GOP HC bill.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:02 pm

Better the piece of **** you know than the piece of **** you don't know I guess.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:04 pm

Or they could work together in a bipartisan manner to fix its weaknesses...

Just sayin.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:20 pm

Corsair wrote:Or they could work together in a bipartisan manner to fix its weaknesses...

Just sayin.

I really, really wish they would. I think all of America wishes they'd actually work on something as a single, cohesive body for once.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:23 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Corsair wrote:Or they could work together in a bipartisan manner to fix its weaknesses...

Just sayin.

I really, really wish they would. I think all of America wishes they'd actually work on something as a single, cohesive body for once.


Guess who has been opposing what you want?

Ryan, White House reject bipartisan health fix

House Speaker Paul Ryan and the White House have informed Senate Republican leaders that they oppose a bipartisan plan to stabilize Obamacare being written in the Senate, according to Trump administration and congressional sources, in a clear bid to boost the Senate's prospects of repealing the health law.

...

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/1 ... tus-242875
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:29 pm

Pretty much all of them have been opposing what I want. No government involvement in healthcare.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:40 pm

From 2008-2017 The debate was: Do you want the ACA or do you want it repealed?

In the present day (if this final repeal fails) your choice is: Do you want to fix the ACA or do you want single payer?

It's time to accept reality. You aren't getting it repealed. How do you want to move forward?
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:33 pm

Buc2 wrote:Pretty much all of them have been opposing what I want. No government involvement in healthcare.

Really?
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:17 pm

Susan Collins said she was going to wait u til the CBO came out before making a decision.

CBO just dropped and Collins said she is a “no”.

Starting to sound like try #4 is dead.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:04 pm

So no vote on the bill. I for one am glad that **** stain of a bill won't pass. I'd rather the ACA completely fail soon rather than the proposed crap get passed and fail five years later.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/ ... index.html



Maybe we can actually solve the problem

For now though, everyone keep buying stock in Anthem...as the government continues to subsidize it, it will surely continue to increase in value , it's up nearly 300% since the ACA started throwing money at it.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby deltbucs » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:30 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:So no vote on the bill. I for one am glad that **** stain of a bill won't pass. I'd rather the ACA completely fail soon rather than the proposed crap get passed and fail five years later.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/ ... index.html



Maybe we can actually solve the problem

For now though, everyone keep buying stock in Anthem...as the government continues to subsidize it, it will surely continue to increase in value , it's up nearly 300% since the ACA started throwing money at it.

Spot on
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:14 pm

Can we have single payer now? That would be great.

Pop quiz. What is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States?

Let's get insurance costs off the books of small businesses and off the backs of working people so they can spend that money on things that benefit the economy.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:29 pm

McCain Urges Bipartisan Tax Effort, Echoing Health Demands

Senator John McCain of Arizona is laying down the same marker on tax legislation as he did on health care, demanding regular order and support from both parties -- a stance that has proved pivotal in thwarting Senate Republican efforts to undo Obamacare.

“We need to do it in a bipartisan fashion,” McCain said Tuesday of planned tax legislation, arguing that the major congressional reforms that have stood the test of time since the 20th century have included buy-in from both parties. “I am committed, as I’ve said before, to a bipartisan approach, such as we’ve been doing in the Armed Services Committee for the last 53 years,” he told reporters in the Capitol.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ealth-care
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby deltbucs » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:59 am

Corsair wrote:
McCain Urges Bipartisan Tax Effort, Echoing Health Demands

Senator John McCain of Arizona is laying down the same marker on tax legislation as he did on health care, demanding regular order and support from both parties -- a stance that has proved pivotal in thwarting Senate Republican efforts to undo Obamacare.

“We need to do it in a bipartisan fashion,” McCain said Tuesday of planned tax legislation, arguing that the major congressional reforms that have stood the test of time since the 20th century have included buy-in from both parties. “I am committed, as I’ve said before, to a bipartisan approach, such as we’ve been doing in the Armed Services Committee for the last 53 years,” he told reporters in the Capitol.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ealth-care

I'm starting to get concerned about McCain. Are we sure that he doesn't have a tumor growing that's starting to forming a soul inside him?
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby acaton » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:09 pm

An alien just might pop out of his forehead just above his left eye.

Just might explain a few things.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:24 pm

Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769085/

I hope you're right, Mike. After all, the government is good enough to pay your medical bills.
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:33 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769085/

I hope you're right, Mike. After all, the government is good enough to pay your medical bills.


Yay free stuff!!!
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:06 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:https://globalnews.ca/news/3769085/

I hope you're right, Mike. After all, the government is good enough to pay your medical bills.


Yay free stuff!!!

Getting your troll on today, eh?
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Re: Obamacare Repeal Question

Postby Corsair » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:55 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Yay free stuff!!!

Getting your troll on today, eh?

Today?
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