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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:32 pm

Pacing is not the issue. Dumb*** plans like "let's go beyond the wall and bring back a wight" are the issue.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby terrytate » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:45 pm

On the off chance people here haven't seen this......


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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby Bucsgirl-DK » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:54 pm

It usually takes a lot for me to start complaining about plot holes or stupid storylines. But this past episode had some big problems that made it much less enjoyable to watch than most of the rest of the season.

My main problem is how all the main characters are saved from certain death over and over again. This used to be a show where anybody can die at any given moment. Now it's only the redshirts that die and the main characters are saved in crazy unbelievable ways. It's not even that I think they have to kill off main characters. But if they aren't going to kill them, don't continually put them in danger where you have to save them. Why make a big deal of showing Jamie falling down into the water, when in the next episode he is perfectly fine and they never talk about it again. How convenient it was that the polar bear only killed the most minor characters. Why spend about a full minute showing Tormund being taken by white walkers, almost being drug into the water only to have the Hound swoop in and save him in the last second. I love Tormund's character but at that point when I thought he was going to die I was almost happy they would finally kill someone.

When there is nothing at stake it takes a lot away from the excitement of the show and your investment in the characters. I really hope it changes in the final episode.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby terrytate » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:19 am

Bucsgirl-DK wrote:It usually takes a lot for me to start complaining about plot holes or stupid storylines. But this past episode had some big problems that made it much less enjoyable to watch than most of the rest of the season.

My main problem is how all the main characters are saved from certain death over and over again. This used to be a show where anybody can die at any given moment. Now it's only the redshirts that die and the main characters are saved in crazy unbelievable ways. It's not even that I think they have to kill off main characters. But if they aren't going to kill them, don't continually put them in danger where you have to save them. Why make a big deal of showing Jamie falling down into the water, when in the next episode he is perfectly fine and they never talk about it again. How convenient it was that the polar bear only killed the most minor characters. Why spend about a full minute showing Tormund being taken by white walkers, almost being drug into the water only to have the Hound swoop in and save him in the last second. I love Tormund's character but at that point when I thought he was going to die I was almost happy they would finally kill someone.

When there is nothing at stake it takes a lot away from the excitement of the show and your investment in the characters. I really hope it changes in the final episode.



Someone important did die. Viserion.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:56 am

Nit even Dany really cared that Viserion. Drogon is basically the only dragon the show has invested interest in. We all knee the night King was getting one of them.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:47 am

uscbucsfan wrote:Nit even Dany really cared that Viserion. Drogon is basically the only dragon the show has invested interest in. We all knee the night King was getting one of them.


That was one her children, the only children she will ever have.

You're a heatless bastard!!
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 am

GameTime wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I'm seeing a growing opinion that the last episode jumped the shark of sorts. Not just with the timeline, or the WW getting a huge chain and somehow attaching it to the dragon, but with the whole plan to bring the WW to Cersei.

I still enjoy it and do not agree with that sentiment, but I think this rushed season is turning a lot of people off. They should have just made it 10 episodes and had more filler.

I dont care too much about the timeline, or the chains, who really cares. I am upset at the dumb plan to take a WW/wight to cersei!

Yet the notion of bringing proof to King's Landing is not new. Back in A Game of Thrones, when the two or three dead nights watchmen were brought into Castle Black and they reanimated and almost killed Mormont, the severed hand of one of those men was sent south with the guy that brings prisoners up from southern jail cells to take the Black. He was suppose to show them the still moving hand and ask for more than just prisoners to come north. Same dude that saved Arya when Ned was executed. I think the show may have skipped this but it has been so long I cannot remember. In the book, the hand decomposed too badly to move...or was it had crossed the magic of the Wall and was no longer "alive".

While it is a reckless move, it was necessary. There is no way any deep south Lord....or Queen...will believe the dead have risen and an army lead by an ancient fairy tale monster is coming to kill them all. Only proof could even possibly sway the likes of Cersei and even then, I think Jaime will be swayed to shift focus and Cersei will just keep scheming.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:39 am

Bucsgirl-DK wrote:It usually takes a lot for me to start complaining about plot holes or stupid storylines. But this past episode had some big problems that made it much less enjoyable to watch than most of the rest of the season.

My main problem is how all the main characters are saved from certain death over and over again. This used to be a show where anybody can die at any given moment. Now it's only the redshirts that die and the main characters are saved in crazy unbelievable ways. It's not even that I think they have to kill off main characters. But if they aren't going to kill them, don't continually put them in danger where you have to save them. Why make a big deal of showing Jamie falling down into the water, when in the next episode he is perfectly fine and they never talk about it again. How convenient it was that the polar bear only killed the most minor characters. Why spend about a full minute showing Tormund being taken by white walkers, almost being drug into the water only to have the Hound swoop in and save him in the last second. I love Tormund's character but at that point when I thought he was going to die I was almost happy they would finally kill someone.

When there is nothing at stake it takes a lot away from the excitement of the show and your investment in the characters. I really hope it changes in the final episode.

Thoros of Myr and Viserion died. Pretty sure Berrick Dondarian will disagree with you. Also, one of three dragons in the entire world was killed. Pretty epic to me. The only thing that makes any of it lackluster is that there is so much talk and guessing before the episodes air. Of course some fans are going to guess correctly...and leaked episodes do not help. The episode was anticlimactic for me because of what I wrote in a spoiler tag. I saw a video from some guy that presented leaked information without warning viewers. He presented his take on the upcoming events like he was just guessing yet it all turned out exactly as he "predicted". There are ac couple of people on YouTube I follow that do not use leaked info and stick to personal thoughts and post-episode analysis. I'll never view anyone else's channel again until the show ends.

For those interested in good commentary and takes on the show I recommend these three people on YouTube:

Emergency Awesome
Talking Thrones
Rawrist

...honorable mention to Azor Ahype
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:43 am

Thoros was basically a red shirt character. Thrones needs to start killing important characters again.

They keep teasing it and people are losing trust in the show, like TWD with Glenn.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:41 am

If people are losing interest with GoT with only seven episodes left, I fear they are way overstimulated and have deeper issues :lol:
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:48 am

paco74 wrote:If people are losing interest with GoT with only seven episodes left, I fear they are way overstimulated and have deeper issues :lol:

I'm defensive of the show as well, because I like it. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people and citrics are not happy with this season. Some are blaming Martin for not having books to reference and others are blaming HBO for shortening the seasons to make more money. I see a loy of their points. I still love the show, but this season has had some serious flaws.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:21 am

I'm defensive about the show too. It is BY FAR the best television I've ever seen. And I'd take all combined 66 hours of showtime over any movie too.

People complain that the show "isn't the same"... well duh, there's a very basic reason. And forgive me if this is obvious, but when you think of it like this, it's easier to accept:

In the first, second, third, fourth, and hell probably into the fifth season, the show was expanding. The reaches of the world were unknown. Who knew how large the other continent, and what kingdoms were there? Who knew what Oldtown even looked like? Just who were the Dornish people, with their different customs, etc. What really lies beyond the wall? Are there more dragons out there? How much magic is really possible in this universe?

All those perimeter-defining questions have been answered by the show. The show is no longer expanding. There is not enough time for add and develop new characters. The show is collapsing in and that's the only natural course. So from here on, the show creators have to be more careful with who they kill, because there is no replacing them. There's not going to be any more Oberons or Daario Naharis's popping up. There are only going to be fewer and fewer characters. So death IS the expected now, whereas it used to be the surprise. Them flipping it to characters surviving against the odds (as opposed to dying "against the odds") is the right thing to do at this point in the show. Its the smart, natural approach. I get it, I'm nostalgic for the "beginning 'Thrones", we all are, but trying to recapture that feeling, for a show like this, after 7 seasons, is trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. Benioff and Weiss can do what they want with the show at this point. They've proven they're good at this, they can take whatever liberties - they generally have good reasons for it and seem like smart guys. I trust them. The show has been phenomenal and is coming to a fantastic, natural head. Can't wait for this season finale in a few days
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:27 am

Well said beard.

I'm not trying to portay that I'm less than satisfied. I still love it. Just shcoked for the first time in 6 years I've seen almost as much negative as positive from fans and critics.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Excellent post, beard. With the proliferation of fan theories surprising GoT viewers now is virtually impossible. Some theories have been speculated on since the 1990's and many are likely to turn out correct.

Also, GoT has replaced WD as the most popular (not most viewed) show. Therefore the entire force of social media is available to break down each scene piece by piece 5 seconds after an episode ends. Think about how many videos broke down the previews into minute bites to try to reconstruct the season. Personally I don't like watching those type of videos because I want to be surprised to some extent, but a lot of people do. Jon coming back from the dead was expected because fans have had since 2011 to think about it. We all knew it was going to happen before it did although GRRM hasn't written it yet. GoT has lost the element of mystery simply because it's coming to an end and social media cannibalizes it. It can still be a great show, but it won't be what it was when it began.

I still blame GRRM for not finishing a damn book in 6 years.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby Heidguy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:44 pm

Cersie gonna Cersie, that ole bitch.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:52 pm

Awesome episode.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:04 pm

I hope the rumors aren't true that the final season will air in 2019.


The fire ice was pretty bad ass. The Baelish scene was awesome. Not super shocked about Jon. As previously said, Cersei gonna Cersei.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby terrytate » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:40 pm

Sansa is a little slow on the uptake sometimes, but she seems to have learned her lessons well.

also


Spoiler:
WINCEST
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby Caradoc » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:07 am

Caradoc wrote:I imagine the wall won't be so effective if they tear it down



Yeah, I said that.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:47 am

I'll remove the spoiler tag in a day or so...

Spoiler:
I literally got a chill down my body when Lyanna said Jon's true name. For me, that was the best part of the entire episode. 2 and 2a would be the confrontation between the Hound and the Mountain followed by the scene with Jaime,Cersei and the Mountain. Deep down I knew better but for a split second I really thought we would lose Jaime rather shockingly and unexpected. Next would be when Sansa charged Littlefinger with murder and treason. I said, "Lord Baelish" seconds before she said it. The Stark kids played him hardcore.

Question....what do y'all make of Tyrion's look of concern when Jon entered Dany's quarters? Playa hatin' or what?

Looks like Tormund and Davos escaped the falling wall, but where the hell is Gendry? He didn't make an appearance at all in the episode.

So great to see Jaime stand up to his sister finally. He sees she only cares about power even in the face of an apocalypse.

I'm wondering now if we will ever get a Howland Reed appearance. I suppose everyone is now just believing Bran on his "visions". If so, the annulment record and Bran's insight on the wedding and birth of Jo...er...Aegon will be enough evidence.

I'm ready for the next season. Can you imagine how Sansa, who never let Jon forget he was a bastard, will feel when all along she was chastising a royal prince and the one true heir to the seven kingdoms? Epic
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:06 am

Spoiler:
I don't know why his name was that exciting. I thought we already knew for sure that he was in fact a Tagaryen. Just because he's the 6th or 7th Aegon doesn't make it any more exciting outside of the tidbit in the books that the other Aegon could be alive under Vary's care.

I think Tyrion either A) Is thinking about what he said to Cersei about how Dany was better than her, even after she wanted to burn all the people of King's Landing and how she is acting for the people only to now allow emotions/love get in her way, which has been something he held against Cersei with her family. If he knows Jon's true identity, which with him being friends with Vary's I don't know why he wouldn't, the incest could be upsetting for him for multiple reasons.

I don't buy that Jon is the one true heir as we talked about. Cersei is the Queen right now, Dany wants to be Queen, learning who Jon really is likely won't change either of those things(maybe Dany some).
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby GameTime » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:08 am

I think bran signed Jons death warrant
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:42 am

GameTime wrote:I think bran signed Jons death warrant


Meh, revealing his lineage will complicate things between him and Daenarys, but they'll work it out.

While these last 2 episodes have been fantastic, everything is feeling so rushed in terms of the storyline. The whole Bran/3ER and Sam conversation should've been in more detail imo instead of a 3 -5 minute segment. Rhaegar and Lyanna being married is HUGE part of the story.

I guess we got the answer on how the wall comes down and what the zombie dragon would spit out (ice or fire).

I figured Littlefinger would die, the show made it obvious all season with how much they tried to convince the audience there was a feud between Sansa and Arya. But I did like his final scene.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:44 am

DreadNaught wrote:
GameTime wrote:I think bran signed Jons death warrant




I guess we got the answer on how the wall comes down and what the zombie dragon would spit out (ice or fire).


Did we?

1/3 of the internet says ice
1/3 says blue fire
1/3 says magical fire/ice, but it doesn't matter so who cares?

I would lean toward it not being just ice. Nothing was frozen, it appeared gaseous, and it destroyed the ice wall...although it didn't melt the wall either. It blasted it with force/impact. I think that's just going to be one of those things that is just accepted.

edit: Upon googling it. One site says it's the same fire the children in the forest use in their blue bombs. "An old magical fire".
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:45 am

GOT is definitely the most epic show of all time, but it's definitely not perfect. That said when the ice dragon came and did it's thing, my jaw was dropped.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby Super K » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:06 am

DreadNaught wrote:
GameTime wrote:I think bran signed Jons death warrant


Meh, revealing his lineage will complicate things between him and Daenarys, but they'll work it out.

While these last 2 episodes have been fantastic, everything is feeling so rushed in terms of the storyline. The whole Bran/3ER and Sam conversation should've been in more detail imo instead of a 3 -5 minute segment. Rhaegar and Lyanna being married is HUGE part of the story.

I guess we got the answer on how the wall comes down and what the zombie dragon would spit out (ice or fire).

I figured Littlefinger would die, the show made it obvious all season with how much they tried to convince the audience there was a feud between Sansa and Arya. But I did like his final scene.


I agree with the Bran/3ER concern..

Even when Sansa and Arya we're giving it to Littlefinger and he spouted out how Littlefinger held a blade to Needs throat, noone said a thing or questioned it..

And the Sam/Bran conversation was horribly done and rushed...
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:00 pm

Sam/Bran conversation was done perfectly imo. Using flashback and voice over worked very well. We all knew Jon was Targaryen (sp?) so why drag that out? We even knew that Jon was not a bastard based on information from 2-3 episodes ago. The only thing left was outright saying it with wasting our time.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:01 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't know why his name was that exciting. I thought we already knew for sure that he was in fact a Tagaryen. Just because he's the 6th or 7th Aegon doesn't make it any more exciting outside of the tidbit in the books that the other Aegon could be alive under Vary's care.

I think Tyrion either A) Is thinking about what he said to Cersei about how Dany was better than her, even after she wanted to burn all the people of King's Landing and how she is acting for the people only to now allow emotions/love get in her way, which has been something he held against Cersei with her family. If he knows Jon's true identity, which with him being friends with Vary's I don't know why he wouldn't, the incest could be upsetting for him for multiple reasons.

I don't buy that Jon is the one true heir as we talked about. Cersei is the Queen right now, Dany wants to be Queen, learning who Jon really is likely won't change either of those things(maybe Dany some).

Spoiler:
The reason the name was a big surprise was that this would be the second son Rhaegar names Aegon.

No way Varys or Tyrian know who Jon really is...yet. That secret was being kept by two men. One went to his grave with the knowledge and the other has not been seen once in the entire SOIAF series..book or show. Only Bran new because of his green sight and now Sam knows from Bran telling him. Sam only just recently found out about the secret annulment and wedding which even Bran was unaware of.

If anything, an alliance by marriage could only strengthen Dany's quest for the throne. That is all Tyrian should be thinking. I'd buy that he is concerned that Dany's feelings for Jon could get her killed in the North while facing the Night King but it shouldn't affect anything in the South.

There isn't anything to buy about Jon being the true heir. If the goal is to restore the Targaryens to power, then Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne by being the natural born son of the man that should have king after Aerys. Now the question is, would Jon even want to be on the Iron Throne? He identifies as a Northman and I am willing to bet he will never want to go by Aegon. IF he ever sits the throne it will be because the people choose it and he feels it is his duty. He never wanted to be Lord Commander or King of the North.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby paco74 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:04 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:Sam/Bran conversation was done perfectly imo. Using flashback and voice over worked very well. We all knew Jon was Targaryen (sp?) so why drag that out? We even knew that Jon was not a bastard based on information from 2-3 episodes ago. The only thing left was outright saying it with wasting our time.

Agreed.
Spoiler:
The biggest reveal was the name. I honestly thought Lyanna named him Jon. I expected to hear Jon Targaryen.
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Re: The Official Game of Thrones HBO Series Discussion Threa

Postby Buc2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:06 pm

Not doing spoilers. If anyone hasn't seen the latest episode, they should have the sense to stop reading once the thread gets into the date of and dates after an episode they haven't seen.

Great episode! All of it.

Loved how they resolved the Sansa/Arya "conflict." Like some of us mentioned on these pages, we felt that Sansa & Arya may have been setting up Lord Baelish and, sure enough, BAM! Off with his head! Well, cut throat anyway. Watching him cry like a bitch was very satisfying. Varys will be disappointed he missed it.

As for the Sam/Bran scene, I agree with those that were fine with the way it was done. Like was said above, we already knew Jon was a Targaryen. All the was left to know was to the extent he was a Targaryen which would determine how legitimate his claim to the Iron Throne would be. Once Bran makes it known who Jon really is, his role is basically done, no? Will there be any reason to keep the Three-eyed Raven around after that or will he leave to be with the Children of the Forest never to be seen or heard from again?

The blue dragon...Wow! That was an awesome sight to behold. When we were discussing how they'd breach the wall, I never thought of it happening that way. It was a brilliant play.

Cersei... What to say other than, once a bitch, always a bitch. I liked that Jaime finally stood his ground with her and plans to remain true to his word. I think she's hurt way more than she let on by him walking out on her. I must admit, though, I thought for a second there that she would actually have Sir Gregor kill him. As for her plan to not honor the agreement to fight the White Walkers, I believe her thinking is flawed. If, as she said, she leaves it to the North and Dany's forces to fight the Night King's horde with the thought that they'll kill each other off so she can just swoop in to deal with the remnants, she's not thinking things through. If the North loses, all their dead will just rise up and join those remaining of the Night King's army. Meaning the Night King won't lose much, if any, in the way of numbers and he'd likely have two more blue fire/magic breathing dragons to wreck havoc in the Seven Kingdoms.

Looks like Bronn will get to be friends with Tyrion again now that it appears Jaime is going to join with the North to fight the White Walkers.

Theon... Will he be successful in rescuing Yara? If so, will that be the end of Euron and will Yara be able to rally Euron's forces to her side to rejoin with Dany and Jon/Rhaegar to help in the fight to come? Speaking of Theon, does he survive his attempt to rescue Yara? I'm thinking not. I see it where he gets a chance to make up for his cowardice the last time he faced Euron, but Euron mortally wounds him and turns his attention to Yara, only to be back stabbed by the mortally wounded Theon. Justice done.

Are they done with Melisandre (the Red Woman) or does she still have a role to play in the final season?

Finally, will Dany's and Jon's family re"union" result in a child? Of course it will. This is GoT after all. :D

It's going to be a long off season before we get to the final season. {sigh}
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