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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:34 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
There are two problems with SNL- one is new, one isn't.

1. Coming up with original comedy on a weekly basis is hard. Stand-ups take years to perfect one show. Sitcom writers write 12 episodes over a year or whatever. Having something happen on Tuesday, and then making up skits around it for Saturday, is not easy.

2. It's a liberal circle jerk now. They do a bad Trump impression and it gets cheers, not laughs (I just read this somewhere). And then they do Pence. And then they do Giuliani. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.


1. No argument whatsoever. Writing sketch comedy on a weekly basis has got to be brutal, and because of this, the show quality tends to ebb and flow over the years.

2. It's ALWAYS been a left leaning show. From Chevy Chase doing Gerald Ford to Alec Baldwin doing Trump. But they will pick on Democrats too, Kate Mckinnon's Hillary Clinton is hysterical, and Larry David as Bernie Sanders couldn't have been done better.


On point 2, yes, it's always been left-leaning. But it went from "here's a portrayal of President X, that both sides can laugh at" to "here's a portrayal of Trump that the left cheers, but neither side laughs at." There is still funny stuff here and there. For instance, whoever plays Eric Trump is pretty funny, imo. Also, almost every segment is political, which I think even one of the castmembers said during the off-season.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
1. No argument whatsoever. Writing sketch comedy on a weekly basis has got to be brutal, and because of this, the show quality tends to ebb and flow over the years.

2. It's ALWAYS been a left leaning show. From Chevy Chase doing Gerald Ford to Alec Baldwin doing Trump. But they will pick on Democrats too, Kate Mckinnon's Hillary Clinton is hysterical, and Larry David as Bernie Sanders couldn't have been done better.


On point 2, yes, it's always been left-leaning. But it went from "here's a portrayal of President X, that both sides can laugh at" to "here's a portrayal of Trump that the left cheers, but neither side laughs at." There is still funny stuff here and there. For instance, whoever plays Eric Trump is pretty funny, imo. Also, almost every segment is political, which I think even one of the castmembers said during the off-season.

I chock it up to a sign of the times.
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Re: SNL

Postby Buc2 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:38 pm

And we all have the choice to not watch it. So there you have it. Watch it. Don't watch it. The choice is totally up to each of us.
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Re: SNL

Postby Selmon Rules » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:14 pm

I will always go with the original Not Ready for Prime Time Players and Dan Akroyds bit as Carter working a drug hotline was awesome....
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Re: SNL

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:33 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
On point 2, yes, it's always been left-leaning. But it went from "here's a portrayal of President X, that both sides can laugh at" to "here's a portrayal of Trump that the left cheers, but neither side laughs at." There is still funny stuff here and there. For instance, whoever plays Eric Trump is pretty funny, imo. Also, almost every segment is political, which I think even one of the castmembers said during the off-season.

I chock it up to a sign of the times.


I think this mostly it. It's a big issue in the world of comedy in general right now.

We're in a hyper-sensitive and hyper-partisan time. Which isn't good if you're in the business of making jokes.

For my money George Carlin is on the Mount Rushmore of comedy, but he would have a tough time doing his bits in 2018.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:52 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I chock it up to a sign of the times.


I think this mostly it. It's a big issue in the world of comedy in general right now.

We're in a hyper-sensitive and hyper-partisan time. Which isn't good if you're in the business of making jokes.

For my money George Carlin is on the Mount Rushmore of comedy, but he would have a tough time doing his bits in 2018.

Dave Chappelle talked about that recently.
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:37 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I chock it up to a sign of the times.


I think this mostly it. It's a big issue in the world of comedy in general right now.

We're in a hyper-sensitive and hyper-partisan time. Which isn't good if you're in the business of making jokes.

For my money George Carlin is on the Mount Rushmore of comedy, but he would have a tough time doing his bits in 2018.


Just look at Tim Allen. He had the second most-watched show on ABC and was basically cancelled because the main character is a conservative.
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Re: SNL

Postby Kress » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:57 am

Deuce wrote:Just look at Tim Allen. He had the second most-watched show on ABC and was basically cancelled because the main character is a conservative.



Did you watch the first episode of the reboot now that Fox picked them up? They ripped ABC non-stop throughout the show, made a whole political thing about Liberals v. Conservatives, even having part of the family threatening to move to Canada, and Tim's main character remained ultra conservative.

Last Man Standing shocked the industry Friday by delivering the biggest audience for a Fox comedy in nearly seven years (8 million viewers and a 1.8 rating).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/last- ... ar-BBNOnVy

You could guess that the whole political topic was entertaining to people, but since this was the first episode back after being canceled it's not like anyone knew that was what it was going to be about. This was people coming back to watch what they wanted to see, and what ABC canceled.
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:07 am

Kress wrote:
Deuce wrote:Just look at Tim Allen. He had the second most-watched show on ABC and was basically cancelled because the main character is a conservative.



Did you watch the first episode of the reboot now that Fox picked them up? They ripped ABC non-stop throughout the show, made a whole political thing about Liberals v. Conservatives, even having part of the family threatening to move to Canada, and Tim's main character remained ultra conservative.

Last Man Standing shocked the industry Friday by delivering the biggest audience for a Fox comedy in nearly seven years (8 million viewers and a 1.8 rating).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/last- ... ar-BBNOnVy

You could guess that the whole political topic was entertaining to people, but since this was the first episode back after being canceled it's not like anyone knew that was what it was going to be about. This was people coming back to watch what they wanted to see, and what ABC canceled.


I watched the show when it originally aired. I'm not sure if you watched it before, but it was always a very political show. Almost every episode was Allen having a conservative point vs. the son-in-law having a liberal one, and one or the other would be proven wrong or they'd meet in the middle. We skipped the second halves of episodes right after the Obama election because it was the only thing they talked about.

ABC's reason for cancellation was "we weren't doing comedy on Fridays anymore". That's why they canceled the second most-watched show behind Modern Family. lol

Also, I'm so salty Molly Ephraim isn't back. She was super hot in the first two seasons I think, before she got bangs.
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Re: SNL

Postby Kress » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:20 am

Yeah, I've watched it for years. I thought this one went a little bit harder, and did so on purpose.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:41 am

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I think this mostly it. It's a big issue in the world of comedy in general right now.

We're in a hyper-sensitive and hyper-partisan time. Which isn't good if you're in the business of making jokes.

For my money George Carlin is on the Mount Rushmore of comedy, but he would have a tough time doing his bits in 2018.


Just look at Tim Allen. He had the second most-watched show on ABC and was basically cancelled because the main character is a conservative.

It turns out that's not entirely true.

The show has always been produced by 20th Century Fox and was licensed to ABC for broadcast. Fox covered the production cost, got ad revenue, and syndication rights. ABC also got ad revenue and an anchor show for Friday nights they didn't have to pay for. Once the contract comes up for renewal, ABC was expected to pick up the production costs of the show, and rather than have a smaller margin for a popular show, they opted out. It was then super-easy for Fox to pick up the show since they were already paying the cast and crew, but now have total control of the show.

[MB's patented egghead rant follows]

Tim Allen and Rosanne are in no way the first openly conservative characters on TV. And the notion that TV executives are willing to forego millions in revenue because they think republicans are bad is naive. We can sit down and cite examples all day long how both conservative and progressive sitcom characters have been routinely used for laughs by poking fun at the most outrageous traits.

Conservative:
Alex P. Keaton on Family Ties
Archie Bunker on All in the Family
Dan and Rosanne Connor on Rosanne
Hank Hill on King of the Hill
The entire cast of the Golden Girls with the exception of Blanche and arguably Rose
Cliff on Cheers
Al Bundy on Married: With Children

Progressive:
The entire cast of Will and Grace
Diane on Cheers
The hippie parents on Dharma and Greg
Pheobe from Friends
Rhoda from Mary Tyler Moore

It goes on and on and on. From a writing perspective, you can do so much with a character who is stubbornly conservative or wacky progressive both good and bad. Writers can make television history putting these characters in positions that challenge everything we know about them. Archie Bunker hosting Sammy Davis Jr. in his home was absolute gold.

The more I think about it the more I'm starting to think conservatives don't realize how important a conservative character is for a show. Whether it's for the laughs like Major Winchester on MASH, or to have the tough love scenes like John Ritter on 8 simple rules, or in the case of a drama, to give the plot a purpose like the entire cast of House gave to Dr. House. Or Jethro Gibbs on NCIS.

Yeah, I think conservatives are better represented in Hollywood than they think.
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Re: SNL

Postby The Outsider » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:52 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
There are two problems with SNL- one is new, one isn't.

1. Coming up with original comedy on a weekly basis is hard. Stand-ups take years to perfect one show. Sitcom writers write 12 episodes over a year or whatever. Having something happen on Tuesday, and then making up skits around it for Saturday, is not easy.

2. It's a liberal circle jerk now. They do a bad Trump impression and it gets cheers, not laughs (I just read this somewhere). And then they do Pence. And then they do Giuliani. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.


1. No argument whatsoever. Writing sketch comedy on a weekly basis has got to be brutal, and because of this, the show quality tends to ebb and flow over the years.

2. It's ALWAYS been a left leaning show. From Chevy Chase doing Gerald Ford to Alec Baldwin doing Trump. But they will pick on Democrats too, Kate Mckinnon's Hillary Clinton is hysterical, and Larry David as Bernie Sanders couldn't have been done better.


Will Ferrel's GWB is one of my favorite characters of all time. "**** Tater"
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:57 am

The Outsider wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
1. No argument whatsoever. Writing sketch comedy on a weekly basis has got to be brutal, and because of this, the show quality tends to ebb and flow over the years.

2. It's ALWAYS been a left leaning show. From Chevy Chase doing Gerald Ford to Alec Baldwin doing Trump. But they will pick on Democrats too, Kate Mckinnon's Hillary Clinton is hysterical, and Larry David as Bernie Sanders couldn't have been done better.


Will Ferrel's GWB is one of my favorite characters of all time. "**** Tater"

"Hello Amurica"
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Re: SNL

Postby NYBF » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:03 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Conservative:
Alex P. Keaton on Family Ties
Archie Bunker on All in the Family
Dan and Rosanne Connor on Rosanne
Hank Hill on King of the Hill
The entire cast of the Golden Girls with the exception of Blanche and arguably Rose
Cliff on Cheers
Al Bundy on Married: With Children



1. Has Parkinson's
2. Is dead
3. Have you seen her sing?
4. Isn't even real
5. All dead with the exception of Rose
6. Relegated to cartoons
7. Now has a gay son

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Yeah, I think conservatives are better represented in Hollywood than they think.


Of course you'd think that.
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Re: SNL

Postby Teitan » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:05 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
The Outsider wrote:
Will Ferrel's GWB is one of my favorite characters of all time. "**** Tater"

"Hello Amurica"


Western grip handjobs.
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Re: SNL

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:08 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Yeah, I think conservatives are better represented in Hollywood than they think.

:lol:
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:06 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
Just look at Tim Allen. He had the second most-watched show on ABC and was basically cancelled because the main character is a conservative.

It turns out that's not entirely true.

The show has always been produced by 20th Century Fox and was licensed to ABC for broadcast. Fox covered the production cost, got ad revenue, and syndication rights. ABC also got ad revenue and an anchor show for Friday nights they didn't have to pay for. Once the contract comes up for renewal, ABC was expected to pick up the production costs of the show, and rather than have a smaller margin for a popular show, they opted out. It was then super-easy for Fox to pick up the show since they were already paying the cast and crew, but now have total control of the show.

[MB's patented egghead rant follows]

Tim Allen and Rosanne are in no way the first openly conservative characters on TV. And the notion that TV executives are willing to forego millions in revenue because they think republicans are bad is naive. We can sit down and cite examples all day long how both conservative and progressive sitcom characters have been routinely used for laughs by poking fun at the most outrageous traits.

Conservative:
Alex P. Keaton on Family Ties
Archie Bunker on All in the Family
Dan and Rosanne Connor on Rosanne
Hank Hill on King of the Hill
The entire cast of the Golden Girls with the exception of Blanche and arguably Rose
Cliff on Cheers
Al Bundy on Married: With Children

Progressive:
The entire cast of Will and Grace
Diane on Cheers
The hippie parents on Dharma and Greg
Pheobe from Friends
Rhoda from Mary Tyler Moore

It goes on and on and on. From a writing perspective, you can do so much with a character who is stubbornly conservative or wacky progressive both good and bad. Writers can make television history putting these characters in positions that challenge everything we know about them. Archie Bunker hosting Sammy Davis Jr. in his home was absolute gold.

The more I think about it the more I'm starting to think conservatives don't realize how important a conservative character is for a show. Whether it's for the laughs like Major Winchester on MASH, or to have the tough love scenes like John Ritter on 8 simple rules, or in the case of a drama, to give the plot a purpose like the entire cast of House gave to Dr. House. Or Jethro Gibbs on NCIS.

Yeah, I think conservatives are better represented in Hollywood than they think.


I don't know why I even bother trying to convince you on this issue but...

This is what ABC's president said when asked about the cancellation:

"A large part of these jobs are managing failure, and we have made the tough calls and canceled shows that we would otherwise love to stay on the air. That’s the job. I canceled Last Man Standing for the same business and scheduling reasons that I canceled Dr. Ken, The Real O'Neals, The Catch and American Crime," ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey told reporters Tuesday ahead of her upfront presentation to advertisers. "Last Man Standing was a challenging one for me because it was a steady performer in the ratings, but once we made the decision not to continue with comedies on Fridays, that was where we landed."

So, yeah, the reason straight from the horse's mouth was "we're not doing comedies on Fridays".

Anyway, there's a difference between a "character with conservative values" and Tim Allen's character on Last Man Standing. He quotes Trump, dresses like him on Halloween, talks negatively about Obama, and is a staunch conservative who is sometimes proven wrong. I don't think the others you mentioned did any of that. Although, you had to reach so far back that I'm only familiar with a couple of those characters.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:15 pm

I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?
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Re: SNL

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:20 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?


Bring back leading man Mel Gibson!!!
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?


95% of the shows that I watch, I can't tell the characters' political leaning, and that's the way I like it.

Last Man Standing is a good show because it shows a balance. It puts out the message that everyone has their opinion and can be right or wrong, but the important thing is we talk and try to come to a mutual understanding. SNL puts out a message that "all of us with this opinion are over here hanging out. If you also have our opinion, come hang out. If not, go away."
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:34 pm

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?


95% of the shows that I watch, I can't tell the characters' political leaning, and that's the way I like it.

Last Man Standing is a good show because it shows a balance. It puts out the message that everyone has their opinion and can be right or wrong, but the important thing is we talk and try to come to a mutual understanding. SNL puts out a message that "all of us with this opinion are over here hanging out. If you also have our opinion, come hang out. If not, go away."

SNL has been doing political satire for 40 years. They ain't changing who they are.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:34 pm

For the record, I was enjoying the Rosanne reboot.
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:37 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
95% of the shows that I watch, I can't tell the characters' political leaning, and that's the way I like it.

Last Man Standing is a good show because it shows a balance. It puts out the message that everyone has their opinion and can be right or wrong, but the important thing is we talk and try to come to a mutual understanding. SNL puts out a message that "all of us with this opinion are over here hanging out. If you also have our opinion, come hang out. If not, go away."

SNL has been doing political satire for 40 years. They ain't changing who they are.


bro, we just had this conversation at the top of this page.
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Re: SNL

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:40 pm

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?


95% of the shows that I watch, I can't tell the characters' political leaning, and that's the way I like it.

Last Man Standing is a good show because it shows a balance. It puts out the message that everyone has their opinion and can be right or wrong, but the important thing is we talk and try to come to a mutual understanding. SNL puts out a message that "all of us with this opinion are over here hanging out. If you also have our opinion, come hang out. If not, go away."


This is actually a great way to put it - spot on
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:43 pm

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:SNL has been doing political satire for 40 years. They ain't changing who they are.


bro, we just had this conversation at the top of this page.

Yeah, and I'm still struggling with what it is you want.

Trump is President. So as far as SNL is concerned, its his turn to get fucked with. The man has a 35% approval rating and practically writes the jokes for them because he's a total buffoon.

Are you asking them to stop picking on the slow kid?
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Re: SNL

Postby Deuce » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:02 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
bro, we just had this conversation at the top of this page.

Yeah, and I'm still struggling with what it is you want.

Trump is President. So as far as SNL is concerned, its his turn to get fucked with. The man has a 35% approval rating and practically writes the jokes for them because he's a total buffoon.

Are you asking them to stop picking on the slow kid?


I'm afraid that your bias won't allow you to see the point. I'm not the first one to say it. Look up Rob Schneider's comments or what Michael Che himself said.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:14 pm

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Yeah, and I'm still struggling with what it is you want.

Trump is President. So as far as SNL is concerned, its his turn to get fucked with. The man has a 35% approval rating and practically writes the jokes for them because he's a total buffoon.

Are you asking them to stop picking on the slow kid?


I'm afraid that your bias won't allow you to see the point. I'm not the first one to say it. Look up Rob Schneider's comments or what Michael Che himself said.

What point? That SNL should write jokes for conservatives to be more inclusive?

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Re: SNL

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:42 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Deuce wrote:
bro, we just had this conversation at the top of this page.

Yeah, and I'm still struggling with what it is you want.

Trump is President. So as far as SNL is concerned, its his turn to get fucked with. The man has a 35% approval rating and practically writes the jokes for them because he's a total buffoon.

Are you asking them to stop picking on the slow kid?

I would challenge that, but this isn't the right sub-forum for it.
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Re: SNL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:51 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Yeah, and I'm still struggling with what it is you want.

Trump is President. So as far as SNL is concerned, its his turn to get fucked with. The man has a 35% approval rating and practically writes the jokes for them because he's a total buffoon.

Are you asking them to stop picking on the slow kid?

I would challenge that, but this isn't the right sub-forum for it.

It really doesn't matter.If you're the POTUS, you're gonna be parodied on SNL. It comes with the job.
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Re: SNL

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't watch a lot of TV shows
these days, Deuce.

I'm not sure what you want Hollywood to do. More conservative actors? More conservative characters? More shows that preach conservatism?


#Equality
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