stand your ground law

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stand your ground law

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:59 am

drejka shooting Mcglockton justified...?

on one hand nobody should put there hands on somebody escalating a situation, on the other hand Mcglockton appeared to be backing away?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/7/2 ... mcglockton
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:07 am

You’d probably get a better response if you put this in one of the gun related threads in the politics forum.

Like it or not, these issues become political for people
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:10 am

judging by the video, him actually firing the gun was gratuitous. they cut the actual moment that he fires, but it doesn't appear that the man was continuing his "attack" once the weapon was drawn.

There's an incredible valley between getting pushed over and ending somebody's life. fine. pull your gun out. show the guy that look, if you continue coming at me, I have a weapon and will use it if you keep coming at me. but if the guy stops, and there's a moment of pause and you still pull the trigger, at that point, you've crossed the line. at that point, you're just getting revenge for getting pushed over. and that is an egregious escalation of force. and the guy should be thrown in jail - even WITH the stand your ground law. where's the common sense...


edit: found the uncut video. Drejka (shooter) was arguing with the victim's (McGlockton) girlfriend. seeing this, McGlockton pushed the Drejka down. Drejka pulls his gun. McGlockton starts backing away. 2 seconds go by. McGlockton is still backing away. Drejka shoots him. Drejka is a piece of **** who is getting away with murder thanks to a poorly written law.
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:13 am

beardmcdoug wrote:judging by the video, him actually firing the gun was gratuitous. they cut the actual moment that he fires, but it doesn't appear that the man was continuing his "attack" once the weapon was drawn.

There's an incredible valley between getting pushed over and ending somebody's life. fine. pull your gun out. show the guy that look, if you continue coming at me, I have a weapon and will use it if you keep coming at me. but if the guy stops, and there's a moment of pause and you still pull the trigger, at that point, you've crossed the line. at that point, you're just getting revenge for getting pushed over. and that is an egregious escalation of force. where's the common sense...


Agreed.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Stuart » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:28 am

the guy who shot should be prosecuted. I saw the video. 1st he was sticking his nose where it didn't belong. It's for the police to do something about them using a handicapped spot. but nooooooo, he wanted to play cop.

and yeah, the guys backed off when he pulled his gun. he shot him after the guy had backed off. if he was coming at him after pulling his weapon maybe things would be different. IMO shooter was in the wrong as far as shooting, even though the other party did several things wrong as well.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Buc2 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:37 am

Drejka should be in jail facing a murder charge.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 am

Buc2 wrote:Drejka should be in jail facing a murder charge.

Apparently he still can be charged. The officer didn't arrest him on sight. The DA still has the ability to press charges.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Buc2 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Drejka should be in jail facing a murder charge.

Apparently he still can be charged. The officer didn't arrest him on sight. The DA still has the ability to press charges.

In that case, hopefully, at the end of the day, they will get this one right.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:48 am

Buc2 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Apparently he still can be charged. The officer didn't arrest him on sight. The DA still has the ability to press charges.

In that case, hopefully, at the end of the day, they will get this one right.


+1
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:50 am

Buc2 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Apparently he still can be charged. The officer didn't arrest him on sight. The DA still has the ability to press charges.

In that case, hopefully, at the end of the day, they will get this one right.



I think the sheriff is being sued from a previous stand your ground ordeal where he did make an arrest, so now he is deferring to the states attorney.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Kress » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:52 am

Buc2 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Apparently he still can be charged. The officer didn't arrest him on sight. The DA still has the ability to press charges.

In that case, hopefully, at the end of the day, they will get this one right.




STOP IT!

viewtopic.php?p=305720#p305720
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Buc2 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:02 am

Kress wrote:
Buc2 wrote:In that case, hopefully, at the end of the day, they will get this one right.




STOP IT!

viewtopic.php?p=305720#p305720

Well, ****. Maybe I should just quit for the day. :D
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Kress » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:55 am

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Re: stand your ground law

Postby deltbucs » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:23 am

Pleasantly surprised to see everyone agreeing on this one. The question is, though, what does the law state? Was he right to not be arrested? I seem to remember a case a few years ago in like Texas where someone left the scene, got their gun, came back and shot a dude, and was able to walk free because of the Stand Your Ground laws in that state at the time.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Kress » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:16 am

deltbucs wrote:Pleasantly surprised to see everyone agreeing on this one. The question is, though, what does the law state? Was he right to not be arrested? I seem to remember a case a few years ago in like Texas where someone left the scene, got their gun, came back and shot a dude, and was able to walk free because of the Stand Your Ground laws in that state at the time.



I'm not a criminal law guy, but it's the "forcible felony" part that makes it sticky. Aside from the fact that it's based upon a purely subjective "reasonable belief" standard, of course.


776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
* * *
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.



776.08. Forcible felony.
“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:26 am

deltbucs wrote:Pleasantly surprised to see everyone agreeing on this one. The question is, though, what does the law state? Was he right to not be arrested?


“A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.”


Based on the video I agree this would be an abuse of the law and not in the spirit of how the law was intended to protect people. The victim seemed to clearly have his hands up and open while backing away when the firearm was drawn. Deadly force should not be legally permitted in that situation. I believe a jury will agree and this shooter will end up in prison convicted of either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

That said I'm a firm believer in the intent of the law. Especially the language around dwellings as I believe that if someone breaks into your home (or a car-jacking) you have the right to defend yourself and your family without retreating.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Super K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:50 am

All this over a damn parking spot...

SMFH
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:00 am

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Pleasantly surprised to see everyone agreeing on this one. The question is, though, what does the law state? Was he right to not be arrested?


“A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.”


Based on the video I agree this would be an abuse of the law and not in the spirit of how the law was intended to protect people. The victim seemed to clearly have his hands up and open while backing away when the firearm was drawn. Deadly force should not be legally permitted in that situation. I believe a jury will agree and this shooter will end up in prison convicted of either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

That said I'm a firm believer in the intent of the law. Especially the language around dwellings as I believe that if someone breaks into your home (or a car-jacking) you have the right to defend yourself and your family without retreating.



If someone forced me to bet on the outcome and I had to choose a side, I'd say nothing happens to the shooter.

I hope someone follows this through and bumps it when appropriate.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am

beardmcdoug wrote:judging by the video, him actually firing the gun was gratuitous. they cut the actual moment that he fires, but it doesn't appear that the man was continuing his "attack" once the weapon was drawn.

There's an incredible valley between getting pushed over and ending somebody's life. fine. pull your gun out. show the guy that look, if you continue coming at me, I have a weapon and will use it if you keep coming at me. but if the guy stops, and there's a moment of pause and you still pull the trigger, at that point, you've crossed the line. at that point, you're just getting revenge for getting pushed over. and that is an egregious escalation of force. and the guy should be thrown in jail - even WITH the stand your ground law. where's the common sense...


edit: found the uncut video. Drejka (shooter) was arguing with the victim's (McGlockton) girlfriend. seeing this, McGlockton pushed the Drejka down. Drejka pulls his gun. McGlockton starts backing away. 2 seconds go by. McGlockton is still backing away. Drejka shoots him. Drejka is a piece of **** who is getting away with murder thanks to a poorly written law.


You nailed it. This coward deserves to serve time.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Stuart » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:33 am

Super K wrote:All this over a damn parking spot...

SMFH



they do need to do something about this though. they have toll roads, video cams that mail you tickets.....

you'd think it would be a great revenue stream for them. just make each car that actually is handicapped approved have the same tech as sunpass, the rest get a photo and ticket in the mail.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby RedLeader » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:41 am

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Re: stand your ground law

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:29 pm

The shooter was officially charged with manslaughter today
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:30 pm

Drejka charged with manslaughter. Looks like the prosecution got this one right.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:51 am

bucfanclw wrote:Drejka charged with manslaughter. Looks like the prosecution got this one right.



wonder if they get a conviction though..Not a slam dunk.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:18 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Drejka charged with manslaughter. Looks like the prosecution got this one right.


Wonder if they get a conviction though..Not a slam dunk.


Much better chance of a conviction for manslaughter than has they charged him with murder.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:41 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Wonder if they get a conviction though..Not a slam dunk.


Much better chance of a conviction for manslaughter than has they charged him with murder.

Yeah, and I think any reasonable person would see this as manslaughter. I don't see Drejka having the intent to kill anyone that day, but he was completely reckless in his actions despite the fact that most people would agree he was in no danger of death or severe injury.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby The Outsider » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:57 am

It should be a slam dunk. The surveillance footage speaks for itself.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby NYBF » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:24 am

bucfanclw wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Much better chance of a conviction for manslaughter than has they charged him with murder.

Yeah, and I think any reasonable person would see this as manslaughter.


And where do you think you're going to find a bunch of reasonable people?
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby The Outsider » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:30 am

NYBF wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Yeah, and I think any reasonable person would see this as manslaughter.


And where do you think you're going to find a bunch of reasonable people?


And in Pinellas County Florida no less.
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Re: stand your ground law

Postby Kress » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:42 am

The Outsider wrote:It should be a slam dunk. The surveillance footage speaks for itself.




This is true. It's just like how OJ didn't own the incredibly rare Bruno Magli shoes that left bloody prints all around Nicole's body.

Nope. Never seen them. They barely import any of them into the U.S. to begin with, only 5 places carry them, and it's for the most part impossible to get my size without custom ordering? That's nice. I still don't own a pair. No way.


Spoiler:
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