Who fired first

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Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Thu May 10, 2018 10:00 am

Israel or Iran.........heard it both ways. so which is it?
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Re: Who fired first

Postby bucfanclw » Thu May 10, 2018 10:09 am

Han
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Crocaneers » Thu May 10, 2018 10:18 am

Burr
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Thu May 10, 2018 10:20 am

huh?? :tappingfoot:

you guys can't have an adult conversation.
Last edited by Stuart on Thu May 10, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu May 10, 2018 10:23 am

if you are any good...the girl
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Re: Who fired first

Postby NYBF » Thu May 10, 2018 10:25 am

You know what would be great?
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Thu May 10, 2018 10:28 am

NYBF wrote:You know what would be great?



a big boobed hairy brunette....
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Re: Who fired first

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu May 10, 2018 10:35 am

Stuart wrote:
NYBF wrote:You know what would be great?



a big boobed hairy brunette....


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Re: Who fired first

Postby mdb1958 » Thu May 10, 2018 11:14 am

Stuart wrote:Israel or Iran.........heard it both ways. so which is it?


Iran and I havnt watched our read about anything yet. To me this is like someone asking if fire is hot.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Teitan » Thu May 10, 2018 11:36 am

bucfanclw wrote:Han
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Re: Who fired first

Postby The Outsider » Thu May 10, 2018 11:50 am

If you're a neo-con it's Iran. If you're a hardline liberal it's Israel. If you've got common sense you realize you don't really know and that any official announcement is just pushing one side's agenda or the other.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby DreadNaught » Thu May 10, 2018 12:40 pm

The Outsider wrote:If you're a neo-con it's Iran. If you're a hardline liberal it's Israel. If you've got common sense you realize you don't really know and that any official announcement is just pushing one side's agenda or the other.


Here is what I think I know...

Israel has been bombing Iranian backed positions in Syria recently. Israel also did that public made for TV (and Trump) thing where the Israeli PM talked about the "stolen intel" of the Iranian nuclear program, which could be viewed as an attempt to influence Trump and world opinion that Iran was not being truthful. That obviously proceeded the US ending the JCPOA/Iran deal yesterday. Iran will now face re-imposed sanctions. Between sanctions and the Iran deal being ended it's a huge economic blow to the Iran.

Israel has NOT to my knowledge attacked Iran (the country).

Iran did attack Israel last night (unsuccessfully)
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Re: Who fired first

Postby deltbucs » Thu May 10, 2018 1:54 pm

The Outsider wrote:If you're a neo-con it's Iran. If you're a hardline liberal it's Israel. If you've got common sense you realize you don't really know and that any official announcement is just pushing one side's agenda or the other.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Betsy » Thu May 10, 2018 1:57 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Han
Crocaneers wrote:Burr


GRRRRRR
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Re: Who fired first

Postby DreadNaught » Thu May 10, 2018 2:07 pm

deltbucs wrote:
The Outsider wrote:If you're a neo-con it's Iran. If you're a hardline liberal it's Israel. If you've got common sense you realize you don't really know and that any official announcement is just pushing one side's agenda or the other.


That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Crocaneers » Thu May 10, 2018 2:12 pm

Betsy wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Han
Crocaneers wrote:Burr


GRRRRRR


Yeah .. but you laughed .. or at least smiled
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Thu May 10, 2018 2:18 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:


That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.


I don't see it as that cut and dry either though.

Iran fired on Israel, yes.

Israel fired first IMO as they attacked Iranians based in Syria. If Russia or China bombed our bases in the middle east south asia.....it would pretty much be an act of war. so you could say Israel fired 1st.

In the end this is all probably leading up to Iran justifying (to the world) their further nuclear capabilities, or at least working towards that. Hell NK has probably sent them the plans already. AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL NK ADVANCED SO QUICKLY WITHOUT HELP FROM A MAJOR GOVERNMENT.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby DreadNaught » Thu May 10, 2018 2:39 pm

Stuart wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.


I don't see it as that cut and dry either though.

Iran fired on Israel, yes.

Israel fired first IMO as they attacked Iranians based in Syria. If Russia or China bombed our bases in the middle east south asia.....it would pretty much be an act of war. so you could say Israel fired 1st.

In the end this is all probably leading up to Iran justifying (to the world) their further nuclear capabilities, or at least working towards that. Hell NK has probably sent them the plans already. AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL NK ADVANCED SO QUICKLY WITHOUT HELP FROM A MAJOR GOVERNMENT.


Linking NK and Iran seems like a reach. What are you basing that on?

Also, Syria is already a proxy war. So if people want to use the logic that attacking positions backed Iran or Russia in Syria is the equivalent of attacking Iran or Russia itself thus justifying a retaliatory strike on the actual country (Israel in this case), that same logic would justify Iran and/or Russia to directly attack the US as well since we've bombed Iranian/Russian backed positions in Syria also. Just as they've attacked US backed positions in Syria, so logically we could go ahead and bomb Iran and Russia. There is an obvious flaw in this logic imo. Which is why Iran attacking Israel directly is an escalation imo b/c it moved the theater out of Syria.

Iran and Saudi's are in a race to be the superpower in that region. That is why the Saudi's supported (along with the UAE, Israel, and Bahrain) the USA pulling out of the Iran deal. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia certainly has radical islamists (just as every Muslim majority country does) but the regime in charge is MUCH more moderate than what we have in Tehran (Iran).

There is also the fact that for decades it's been the mission of Iran to destroy Israel.

It's fair to say that Iran is the biggest threat in the world to today and they the biggest state sponsor of terrorism on the globe. I think the administration is going to get things wrapped up w/ NK, and then shift focus to Iran.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Thu May 10, 2018 3:35 pm

"What are you basing that on? "

the enemy of my enemy is my friend.....
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Jimmy McGill » Thu May 10, 2018 5:35 pm

At this point, what difference does it make, anyway?
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Cheb » Thu May 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Jimmy McGill wrote:At this point, what difference does it make, anyway?


This.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby The Outsider » Thu May 10, 2018 7:12 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:


That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.



I always hate to answer a question with a question, but before I can answer yours I need to ask you this: If a foreign country attacked assets in a different country being held by American troops (that is, to make sure we're clear, an American or allied military installation that has American personnel present and currently operating in said installation) would you consider it an attack on America warranting a response?

I also noticed you used two different qualifiers in your respective statements. Iran surely has fired on Israel, but they haven't engaged in offensives in Israeli territory. Neither has Israel fired in to Iran, but they have fired on Iranian troops and assets in Syria. So, to quote James Franco:

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Re: Who fired first

Postby Betsy » Thu May 10, 2018 10:40 pm

Crocaneers wrote:
Betsy wrote:
GRRRRRR


Yeah .. but you laughed .. or at least smiled

I'd like that with cheddar cheese and tomatoes please.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Caradoc » Fri May 11, 2018 6:47 am

Crocaneers wrote:Burr


LOL
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Stuart » Fri May 11, 2018 8:22 am

Stuart wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.


I don't see it as that cut and dry either though.

Iran fired on Israel, yes.

Israel fired first IMO as they attacked Iranians based in Syria. If Russia or China bombed our bases in the middle east south asia.....it would pretty much be an act of war. so you could say Israel fired 1st.

In the end this is all probably leading up to Iran justifying (to the world) their further nuclear capabilities, or at least working towards that. Hell NK has probably sent them the plans already. AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL NK ADVANCED SO QUICKLY WITHOUT HELP FROM A MAJOR GOVERNMENT.



i'm like nostradamus

"Iran vows to pursue 'industrial-scale enrichment' ...on CNN
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Re: Who fired first

Postby The Outsider » Fri May 11, 2018 8:32 am

Stuart wrote:
Stuart wrote:
I don't see it as that cut and dry either though.

Iran fired on Israel, yes.

Israel fired first IMO as they attacked Iranians based in Syria. If Russia or China bombed our bases in the middle east south asia.....it would pretty much be an act of war. so you could say Israel fired 1st.

In the end this is all probably leading up to Iran justifying (to the world) their further nuclear capabilities, or at least working towards that. Hell NK has probably sent them the plans already. AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL NK ADVANCED SO QUICKLY WITHOUT HELP FROM A MAJOR GOVERNMENT.



i'm like nostradamus

"Iran vows to pursue 'industrial-scale enrichment' ...on CNN



I guess, if Nostradamus was mentally challenged and made extremely obvious predictions.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Buc2 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:00 am

The Outsider wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.



I always hate to answer a question with a question, but before I can answer yours I need to ask you this: If a foreign country attacked assets in a different country being held by American troops (that is, to make sure we're clear, an American or allied military installation that has American personnel present and currently operating in said installation) would you consider it an attack on America warranting a response?

I also noticed you used two different qualifiers in your respective statements. Iran surely has fired on Israel, but they haven't engaged in offensives in Israeli territory. Neither has Israel fired in to Iran, but they have fired on Iranian troops and assets in Syria. So, to quote James Franco:

Image

The US has already shown how they would respond. When Syrian loyalists and Russian mercs attacked that US held position in Syria back in February. After we kicked the **** out of the attackers, the fighting ended there.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Buc2 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:05 am

Speaking of that Russian merc attack, anyone read the supposed audio that was leaked?

Check it out here if interested:
Leaked audio recordings said to be of Russian mercenaries in Syria capture expressions of lament and humiliation over a battle in early February involving U.S. forces and Russian nationals.
https://taskandpurpose.com/russian-merc ... ked-audio/
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Re: Who fired first

Postby DreadNaught » Fri May 11, 2018 11:02 am

The Outsider wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
That seems like a very simplistic approach, so here are some simple questions;

Is anyone disputing that Iran fired on Israel?

Are there any reports of Israel firing into Iran?

If those two questions can be answered we can surmise the answer to the OP without placing labels on people imo.



I always hate to answer a question with a question, but before I can answer yours I need to ask you this: If a foreign country attacked assets in a different country being held by American troops (that is, to make sure we're clear, an American or allied military installation that has American personnel present and currently operating in said installation) would you consider it an attack on America warranting a response?

I also noticed you used two different qualifiers in your respective statements. Iran surely has fired on Israel, but they haven't engaged in offensives in Israeli territory. Neither has Israel fired in to Iran, but they have fired on Iranian troops and assets in Syria. So, to quote James Franco:

Image


Great gif!!

This is the mess that we're in regarding Syria, which is a complete quagmire. I think almost anytime American troops are attacked it would likely warrant a response, although that may not be an absolute.

But we're talking about Syria here where there is proxy war occurring. So I do believe it's an escalation by Iran to attack Israel directly and it's based on that escalation that I would feel comfortable that Iran 'fired first'. Like others have posted, it really doesn't matter at this point and I wasn't attempting to argue that it is. But rather that Iran's actions were an escalation (by taking the theater out of Syria) which prompted the 'who fired first' thread.

US airstrikes (in response to alleged Syrian government sponsored chemical attacks) have killed Russian soldiers. I don't believe that gives Russia the right to attack US soil or US interests outside of Syrian in response, and if they did I believe that would constitute them 'firing first'. Not saying I'm right, just the way I view it.
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Re: Who fired first

Postby Caradoc » Fri May 11, 2018 1:23 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
The Outsider wrote:If you're a neo-con it's Iran. If you're a hardline liberal it's Israel. If you've got common sense you realize you don't really know and that any official announcement is just pushing one side's agenda or the other.


Here is what I think I know...

Israel has been bombing Iranian backed positions in Syria recently. Israel also did that public made for TV (and Trump) thing where the Israeli PM talked about the "stolen intel" of the Iranian nuclear program, which could be viewed as an attempt to influence Trump and world opinion that Iran was not being truthful. That obviously proceeded the US ending the JCPOA/Iran deal yesterday. Iran will now face re-imposed sanctions. Between sanctions and the Iran deal being ended it's a huge economic blow to the Iran.

Israel has NOT to my knowledge attacked Iran (the country).

Iran did attack Israel last night (unsuccessfully)


Why is stolen intel in scare quotes?
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