Vegan: The great debate.

General Discussion on any Off Topic subject
post

Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Go crazy, RBF.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:36 pm

I encourage veganism and vegetarianism.

It'll drive down the price of beef.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 11167
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Location: Crestucky
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Super K » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:58 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I encourage veganism and vegetarianism.

It'll drive down the price of beef.


I don't know how to post pics, especially not from my phone...

But this so deserves the "guy pointing to his head" pick/meme...

So I guess there ya go MB...(it's the thought that counts, right?)..
User avatar
Super K
 
Posts: 6487
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 181 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Teitan » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:28 pm

There is no debate.

Image
User avatar
Teitan
 
Posts: 4080
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 212 times
Been thanked: 164 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:34 pm

http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications ... diet-group

Rbf, here is a study regarding B12 deficiency in vegans. There are plenty of links and videos of Doctors disagreeing with the studies, but I agree it can be healthy if you ensure to supplement the nutrients you aren't getting. I would argue tye healthiest is a balanced diet, including meat.

The whole animal rights aspect of veganism is annoying.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Jason Bourne » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:47 pm

Super K wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I encourage veganism and vegetarianism.

It'll drive down the price of beef.


I don't know how to post pics, especially not from my phone...

But this so deserves the "guy pointing to his head" pick/meme...

So I guess there ya go MB...(it's the thought that counts, right?)..



Image
Jason Bourne
 
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:47 am
Location: Clearwater
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Jason Bourne » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:50 pm

Jason Bourne
 
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:47 am
Location: Clearwater
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Jason Bourne » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:31 pm

Image
Jason Bourne
 
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:47 am
Location: Clearwater
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Super K » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Super K wrote:
I don't know how to post pics, especially not from my phone...

But this so deserves the "guy pointing to his head" pick/meme...

So I guess there ya go MB...(it's the thought that counts, right?)..



Image


My man!
User avatar
Super K
 
Posts: 6487
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 181 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Sammich » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:33 pm

When it comes to setting up a healthy eating plan just about any eating philosophy can do it if you plan ahead and look at the big picture instead of looking at it on a meal by meal basis.

-Get enough protein
-Get your vitamins and minerals/ other micronutrients
-Get your energy (carbs or fats) from a good, natural source
-Avoid sugars and refined/processed carbs

Any diet philosophy can accomplish this. Any diet philosophy can **** this up, too.

I'll use myself as an example. I use a mostly animal product ketogenic diet. It works for me. However, I know that this diet tends to run low on vitamins A and C, potassium, magnesium, and sodium. To overcome that I plan my meals and supplements in advance. I make sure to eat a low carb, nutrient dense veggie (spinach, broccoli, etc) every day and I supplement magnesium and sodium. I weigh less now than I did in middle school and am as healthy as a horse.

I am very much live and let live in my outlook on things. What chaps my butt is when people make blanket statements that I disagree with or when people try to force their philosophies on others. Vegans tend to do this a lot. Vegans also tend to think that because they are vegan that their eating plan is 100% healthy, all the while complaining of headaches and lack of energy while stuffing cupcakes in their face. Their nutrient deficiencies are often obvious to anyone that knows what to look for, but if you try to help them you're in for a fight.

If this rant doesn't apply to you then it isn't directed at you.
Sammich
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:52 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:16 pm

Every morning I get up, and I smoke a cigarette, and eat 5 strips of bacon.

And for lunch, a bacon sandwich.

And for an afternoon snack...bacon! A whole big plate of it.

And I usually drink my dinner.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 11167
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Location: Crestucky
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Cheb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:27 am

Any vanity diet that requires artificial supplementation to avoid anemia, nerve damage, heart issues, and problems during pregnancy is a bad one. A vegan diet requires artificial vitamin B12 supplementation, or all those bad things start to happen.

Humans have evolved as omnivores. Chemically, we lack cellulases that many herbivores have, and have lots of proteases that carnivores do. But we also have the sucrases that let us digest fruits. Humans require vitamin B12 to thrive, which in the natural world can only come from animal sources or certain bacteria. We also require vitamin C, which is present in citrus fruits and organ meat.

Your body wants you to have a well-rounded diet. If you want to argue against human biology, be my guest.
Image
Cheb
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:00 pm
Location: West Coast is best coast
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 303 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Rocker » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:39 am

/thread
Image
User avatar
Rocker
 
Posts: 3105
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:23 am
Location: Valrico
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:52 am

Cheb wrote:Any vanity diet that requires artificial supplementation to avoid anemia, nerve damage, heart issues, and problems during pregnancy is a bad one. A vegan diet requires artificial vitamin B12 supplementation, or all those bad things start to happen.

Humans have evolved as omnivores. Chemically, we lack cellulases that many herbivores have, and have lots of proteases that carnivores do. But we also have the sucrases that let us digest fruits. Humans require vitamin B12 to thrive, which in the natural world can only come from animal sources or certain bacteria. We also require vitamin C, which is present in citrus fruits and organ meat.

Your body wants you to have a well-rounded diet. If you want to argue against human biology, be my guest.

Clearly you aren't aware that B12 was found in abundance in soil until heavy pesticide use, and that the animals you eat are fed B12 supplements that you are ingesting second hand...

Also this (if you're curious as to what our ancestors ate): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

Can we rename this thread the anti vegan circle jerk?
Last edited by real bucs fan on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Cheb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:10 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Cheb wrote:Any vanity diet that requires artificial supplementation to avoid anemia, nerve damage, heart issues, and problems during pregnancy is a bad one. A vegan diet requires artificial vitamin B12 supplementation, or all those bad things start to happen.

Humans have evolved as omnivores. Chemically, we lack cellulases that many herbivores have, and have lots of proteases that carnivores do. But we also have the sucrases that let us digest fruits. Humans require vitamin B12 to thrive, which in the natural world can only come from animal sources or certain bacteria. We also require vitamin C, which is present in citrus fruits and organ meat.

Your body wants you to have a well-rounded diet. If you want to argue against human biology, be my guest.

Clearly you aren't aware that B12 was found in abundance in soil until heavy pesticide use, and that the animals you eat are fed B12 supplements that you are ingesting second hand...

Also this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

Can we rename this thread the anti vegan circle jerk?


So what's your point? That because a chicken may get a supplement, you are not biologically designed to be an omnivore? Lol, okay. Good luck with that.
Image
Cheb
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:00 pm
Location: West Coast is best coast
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 303 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:15 am

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Clearly you aren't aware that B12 was found in abundance in soil until heavy pesticide use, and that the animals you eat are fed B12 supplements that you are ingesting second hand...

Also this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

Can we rename this thread the anti vegan circle jerk?


So what's your point? That because a chicken may get a supplement, you are not biologically designed to be an omnivore? Lol, okay. Good luck with that.

The term omnivore is different than the terms carnivore and herbivore. An omnivore is simply able to eat almost anything. It doesn't mean that everything we can eat is healthful...

Watch the video I posted and learn. The fact is human beings have no anatomical, physiological, or genetic adaptations for meat consumption. On the contrary, we have many for plant consumption.
Last edited by real bucs fan on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby Phantom Phenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:20 am

LOL
User avatar
Phantom Phenom
 
Posts: 4405
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:48 pm
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:47 am

We went keto a few months ago. Lots of meat, eggs, and cheese, along with fresh green veggies. We're in the best shape of our lives. Just saying.
Image
User avatar
MJW
 
Posts: 8095
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 347 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby NYBF » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:43 am

real bucs fan wrote:The term omnivore is different than the terms carnivore and herbivore.

TIL how prefixes work
Image
User avatar
NYBF
 
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:46 am
Has thanked: 177 times
Been thanked: 411 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:10 am

NYBF wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The term omnivore is different than the terms carnivore and herbivore.

TIL how prefixes work

If I wasn't clear, I meant that carnivores and herbivores are defined by specific physiological and anatomical characteristics, whereas omnivores are simply creatures that can eat anything. And from a physiological and anatomical standpoint, we are actually herbivores, as the characteristics of our teeth, intestines, hands, and even organs fall in line with that.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:20 am

real bucs fan wrote:
NYBF wrote:TIL how prefixes work

And from a physiological and anatomical standpoint, we are actually herbivores, as the characteristics of our teeth, intestines, hands, and even organs fall in line with that.


This is just bullshit propaganda extremist Vegans use in debates. The Scientific community is not behind it. Hell many Vegans don't buy into this.

Here is a Vegan's argument against it as I'm sure any professor or scientist link I post you would claim to be biased.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/veganbiolo ... vores/amp/
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:30 am

Those type of statements presented as fact strip credibility from your argument.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:30 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:And from a physiological and anatomical standpoint, we are actually herbivores, as the characteristics of our teeth, intestines, hands, and even organs fall in line with that.


This is just bullshit propaganda extremist Vegans use in debates. The Scientific community is not behind it. Hell many Vegans don't buy into this.

Here is a Vegan's argument against it as I'm sure any professor or scientist link I post you would claim to be biased.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/veganbiolo ... vores/amp/

We are omnivores yes, in terms of what we are capable of eating, never said otherwise. But we do in fact have many physiological and anatomical adaptations that are found exclusively in herbivores. That's just a fact, and it's not "vegan propaganda", I'm paraphrasing the TED fellow in the above video I posted who's an archeological scientist who studies the diets and health of ancient peoples.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:33 am

We have traits of exclusive to carnivores and to herbivores. You stating that we are actually herbivores is incorrect.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:42 am

uscbucsfan wrote:We have traits of exclusive to carnivores and to herbivores. You stating that we are actually herbivores is incorrect.

We don't have any physiological, anatomical, or genetic adaptations for meat consumption. We have many for plant consumption. That's my point here.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:50 am

I can find you a scientist that says global warming is a hoax or that the earth is flat. There are TED talks on accessing super human powers. None of that should be used to affirm an extremist position. Common sense says we are not herbivores. I think you are smart enough to realize that. A point can be made that we share more traits in a herbivore than a carnivore and we can debate if a plant based diet is more healthy. You will have merit to your discussion, but you'll lose the room completely when you say we are actually herbivores. It's simply not true. '

Also to say we don't have anatomical features for meat consumption is ignoring our canines and incisors and how our liver functions. We lack cellulases that most herbivores have and have similar proteases that carnivores do. We need B12 and Vitiman C to survive. We are omnivores that process plants and fruits more efficiently than meats.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:56 am

uscbucsfan wrote:I can find you a scientist that says global warming is a hoax or that the earth is flat. There are TED talks on accessing super human powers. None of that should be used to affirm an extremist position. Common sense says we are not herbivores. I think you are smart enough to realize that. A point can be made that we share more traits in a herbivore than a carnivore and we can debate if a plant based diet is more healthy. You will have merit to your discussion, but you'll lose the room completely when you say we are actually herbivores. It's simply not true. '

Also to say we don't have anatomical features for meat consumption is ignoring our canines and incisors and how our liver functions. We lack cellulases that most herbivores have and have similar proteases that carnivores do. We need B12 and Vitiman C to survive. We are omnivores that process plants and fruits more efficiently than meats.

We are essentially arguing semantics here. Your vitamin C point is backwards though. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, herbivores need it from plants. B12 was historically obtained through eating it in the soil, as b12 was abundant in soil before heavy pesticide use, and now that we wash our veggies we can't get enough that way. Non vegans get the majority of their B12 through supplementation as well- it just happens to be second hand as we give livestock b12 now due to our poor soil quality. Not only that, over 1/3 of non-vegans are B12 deficient these days as well. B12 is a good idea for pretty much everyone.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:03 am

real bucs fan wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I can find you a scientist that says global warming is a hoax or that the earth is flat. There are TED talks on accessing super human powers. None of that should be used to affirm an extremist position. Common sense says we are not herbivores. I think you are smart enough to realize that. A point can be made that we share more traits in a herbivore than a carnivore and we can debate if a plant based diet is more healthy. You will have merit to your discussion, but you'll lose the room completely when you say we are actually herbivores. It's simply not true. '

Also to say we don't have anatomical features for meat consumption is ignoring our canines and incisors and how our liver functions. We lack cellulases that most herbivores have and have similar proteases that carnivores do. We need B12 and Vitiman C to survive. We are omnivores that process plants and fruits more efficiently than meats.

We are essentially arguing semantics here. Your vitamin C point is backwards though. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, herbivores need it from plants. B12 was historically obtained through eating it in the soil, as b12 was abundant in soil before heavy pesticide use, and now that we wash our veggies we can't get enough that way. Non vegans get the majority of their B12 through supplementation as well- it just happens to be second hand as we give livestock b12 now due to our poor soil quality. Not only that, over 1/3 of non-vegans are B12 deficient these days as well. B12 is a good idea for pretty much everyone.

The Vitamin C point is not backwards, I'm showing we need plants. We are most efficient and most healthy with large plant portions, small meat portions, exercise, plenty of water. That's how our anatomy is set up. If you want to quit meat, fine. You will have to take supplements for B12, which humans do receive from meats as wild animals graze and eat the bacteria that produces B12, they store it in their muscles and livers for us to eat. The only reason for injections is the animals are often assembly lined and do not get to free graze.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:07 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:We are essentially arguing semantics here. Your vitamin C point is backwards though. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, herbivores need it from plants. B12 was historically obtained through eating it in the soil, as b12 was abundant in soil before heavy pesticide use, and now that we wash our veggies we can't get enough that way. Non vegans get the majority of their B12 through supplementation as well- it just happens to be second hand as we give livestock b12 now due to our poor soil quality. Not only that, over 1/3 of non-vegans are B12 deficient these days as well. B12 is a good idea for pretty much everyone.

The Vitamin C point is not backwards, I'm showing we need plants. We are most efficient and most healthy with large plant portions, small meat portions, exercise, plenty of water. That's how our anatomy is set up. If you want to quit meat, fine. You will have to take supplements for B12, which humans do receive from meats as wild animals graze and eat the bacteria that produces B12, they store it in their muscles and livers for us to eat. The only reason for injections is the animals are often assembly lined and do not get to free graze.

You do realize if humans "free grazed" we could get b12 from the soil too, right?
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Vegan: The great debate.

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:11 am

real bucs fan wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:The Vitamin C point is not backwards, I'm showing we need plants. We are most efficient and most healthy with large plant portions, small meat portions, exercise, plenty of water. That's how our anatomy is set up. If you want to quit meat, fine. You will have to take supplements for B12, which humans do receive from meats as wild animals graze and eat the bacteria that produces B12, they store it in their muscles and livers for us to eat. The only reason for injections is the animals are often assembly lined and do not get to free graze.

You do realize if humans "free grazed" we could get b12 from the soil too, right?

Why don't you read that study I posted and get back to me on that?

To summarize. A cow eats "x" amount of grass and collects "x" amount of B12. This B12 is basically stockpiled in its muscles and liver for us to eat. Real herbivores are also more efficient at processing and storing B12. We would have to eat an exponential amount of plants to collect the amount we could get from that cow meat. This is why vegans must take B12 supplements. 52% of Vegans studied were deficient in B12 compared to 1% of meat eaters.
Image
User avatar
uscbucsfan
 
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Next

post

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Deja Entendu and 5 guests