Cord-cutters

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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby BucJordan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 am

PrimeMinister wrote:We disagree on kodi. It isn’t stealing or breaking the law to watch TV or movies via Kodi.


Uhhh yes. Yes it is. The software itself is legal but if you are using it to watch copyrighted content you didn't pay for, that is quite illegal.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby BucJordan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:34 am

By the way, I'm not trying to go all "ivory tower" here, though it does seem like I'm in the minority in my stance.

When all the Bucs blackout crap was going on, I was watching streams with the rest of you. As an Orlando resident who couldn't afford season tickets, I didn't feel like I had another reasonable option and thought the blackout rule was bullshit. So I'm guilty too in that case, for the record.

I just draw a line with this other content because there are several reasonable alternatives, and because I believe it's bad for the future of the media industry.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:45 am

My cord-cutting set-up is fluid but currently is as follows;

We are family of 3 (daughter is 19 months old) and have 4 TVs set up (Living room, Patio, Master bedroom, Guest bedroom). The living room big screen has both an XB1 and FireTV w/ HD anteanna. The other 3 are just HD antenna w/ either a FireTV stick or Chromecast.

XboxOne and FireTV (w/ Kodi) - I know it's two different media centers and inputs but I started w/ my XB1 and found FireTV was a good value-add for the price. I stay mostly on FireTV, but the NFL app is much better on XB1 for whatever reason.

Outdoor HD antenna - The make them pretty small and easy to mount. I get like 60 channels, but most importantly I get all 4 major networks and since it's run through my XB1 I can pause live TV in my living room. I did have to tinker w/ the set up a bit since it's split to 4 TVs total, but I enjoy that type of stuff and it's not expensive or difficult.

DirecTV Now subscription - (similar to slingTV) It's $35 for a like 50-60 channels. I paid $5 extra for the HBO add-on (for GoT and Hardknocks) that lets me stream live HBO through DirecTV NOW which also gave be access to HBO-GO. But I cancelled that after HardKnocks was over. This package doesn't include NFL Network, so I just go to the app and watch NFLN and a host of the other content that way.

Other than that I just use apps or mirroring to watch whatever else. I have my brothers cable "sign-in" if I ever need to stream from apps like FoxSportsGo, NBC Sports, etc that don't come in via my HD antenna or DTV streaming package

There is some redundancy with the set up (like I said, it's fluid), but it's more than enough content for me. I've yet to want to watch something I've been unable to access.

I pay $65 for internet and $35 for the streaming package monthly. Could probably do without the streaming package, but $35 is easier to stomach than $100 more w/ Fios or Spectrum for basically the same channels imo. The HD antenna was $60 and everything else (additional FireTV sticks, splitter, signal amplifier) was probably no more than $200 combined as a one-time investment.

I really like the PlaystationVue options, but need to see if the value is worth the investment there. I don't play video games very much other than Madden maybe a handful of times a year if the wife is out of town. Having a kid has killed my Madden hobby.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:46 am

I have yet to find a way to watch the Bucs every week without Sunday Ticket unless I'm willing to resort to shitty, non-HD feeds on my tiny (20") computer monitor. When there is a way for me to watch all their games in HD on my large screen TV without Directv/Sunday Ticket, I'll gladly cut the cord. I already have Netflix, Amazon Prime and HBO GO via my daughter's logon's, so there is plenty of content available without my having to rely on DTV or cable.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:52 am

PrimeMinister wrote:We disagree on kodi. It isn’t stealing or breaking the law to watch TV or movies via Kodi.

It is and it's illegal. In the US they haven't been cracking down on it as much as they did, but it's the entire reason kodi recommends using a VPN. They go after people pretty hard in the U.K.

We wanted to cut the chord. We only really watch sports and HBO, but where I am the speed of internet I want would go up to $100+ per month if we stopped bundling. Add something like Sling or Vue and we would only be saving around 15 per month, it's not worth it.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:53 am

Buc2 wrote:I have yet to find a way to watch the Bucs every week without Sunday Ticket unless I'm willing to resort to shitty, non-HD feeds on my tiny (20") computer monitor. When there is a way for me to watch all their games in HD on my large screen TV without Directv/Sunday Ticket, I'll gladly cut the cord. I already have Netflix, Amazon Prime and HBO GO via my daughter's logon's, so there is plenty of content available without my having to rely on DTV or cable.


Where do you live? Is it in the Bucs TV market? If so, I recommend an HD antenna. That is how I watch all football that is live on a major network (CBS, FOX, NBC).
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:17 am

BucJordan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:We disagree on kodi. It isn’t stealing or breaking the law to watch TV or movies via Kodi.


Uhhh yes. Yes it is. The software itself is legal but if you are using it to watch copyrighted content you didn't pay for, that is quite illegal.


Link please showing that it’s illegal in the US. I’ve looked and found nothing.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby deltbucs » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:19 am

**** cable companies. They are the ones that steal from us!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-kus ... 39394.html
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:26 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I have yet to find a way to watch the Bucs every week without Sunday Ticket unless I'm willing to resort to shitty, non-HD feeds on my tiny (20") computer monitor. When there is a way for me to watch all their games in HD on my large screen TV without Directv/Sunday Ticket, I'll gladly cut the cord. I already have Netflix, Amazon Prime and HBO GO via my daughter's logon's, so there is plenty of content available without my having to rely on DTV or cable.


Where do you live? Is it in the Bucs TV market? If so, I recommend an HD antenna. That is how I watch all football that is live on a major network (CBS, FOX, NBC).

I'm in Virginia. It's either Redskins, Panthers or Steelers around here. The end.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:26 am

BucJordan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:


That's a mighty self-serving perspective you have there. Corporations look out for their bottom line you say? I can't believe it! How dare they try to maximize profits for themselves and their investors! :roll: As long as they abide by the law to do it, that should be their goal. We as consumers decide on what is worth our money and what isn't. But now the rules have changed because there's a third option - theft - and it comes without the usual risks because it's digital.

I have no love for Apple and their overpriced products, but I don't walk into their regional store and pocket an iPhone either. And I wouldn't, even if someone devised a way for me to teleport that phone into my pocket not set off the alarms at the exit, and unlock the phone so it'll work with. I'm getting the sense from this thread that many would. Different strokes.


I do the same thing the cooperation does in this situation: look out for my bottom line. When they make content affordable and worth buying it I will and do. I buy HBO Now because they have excellent content at reasonable prices. If HBO were demanding a cable subscription to watch GoT I’d stream it with zero guilt. If others still stream GoT even with the availability of HBO Now more power to them.

Regarding your Apple example you would be ok with stealing an iPhone if you were broke enough, right? You said you used streams in college, but now with other options like Sling you feel guilty. It’s not like you just avoided watching while in college. So your problem is that you think prices are low enough now that people shouldn’t “steal” like you did when the high prices justified the theft. Do I have the right?
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:28 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
BucJordan wrote:
Uhhh yes. Yes it is. The software itself is legal but if you are using it to watch copyrighted content you didn't pay for, that is quite illegal.


Link please showing that it’s illegal in the US. I’ve looked and found nothing.


You're joking, right?

Streaming movies and TV shows through Kodi is absolutely illegal. This is common knowledge. There's 1,000 articles about it. Here's one specifically for Kodi that was my first result on google.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/tech/The-Ris ... 97214.html
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:28 am

Buc2 wrote:I have yet to find a way to watch the Bucs every week without Sunday Ticket unless I'm willing to resort to shitty, non-HD feeds on my tiny (20") computer monitor. When there is a way for me to watch all their games in HD on my large screen TV without Directv/Sunday Ticket, I'll gladly cut the cord. I already have Netflix, Amazon Prime and HBO GO via my daughter's logon's, so there is plenty of content available without my having to rely on DTV or cable.


I use Gamepass UK to watch in HD. It still costs around $180 for the season though. I haven’t found a cheaper option with great live Buccaneers games.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:29 am

What would Jesus do?
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:31 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Link please showing that it’s illegal in the US. I’ve looked and found nothing.


You're joking, right?

Streaming movies and TV shows through Kodi is absolutely illegal. This is common knowledge. There's 1,000 articles about it. Here's one specifically for Kodi that was my first result on google.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/tech/The-Ris ... 97214.html


No I’m not kidding. I wouldn’t have asked the question otherwise. Before today I last read on the legality of this around 2014-2015 and only saw articles stating that uploading and sharing are illegal, not streaming.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:31 am

Buc2 wrote:What would Jesus do?


Multiply the shows for free like fish.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:32 am

Oh and tell the corporations they’re evil.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:34 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
You're joking, right?

Streaming movies and TV shows through Kodi is absolutely illegal. This is common knowledge. There's 1,000 articles about it. Here's one specifically for Kodi that was my first result on google.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/tech/The-Ris ... 97214.html


No I’m not kidding. I wouldn’t have asked the question otherwise. Before today I last read on the legality of this around 2014-2015 and only saw articles stating that uploading and sharing are illegal, not streaming.

It's stealing. You are watching the movie or show without paying. It is absolutely illegal. Sorry, I figured it was common knowledge.

I do it, but I know it's illegal. You should use a VPN on Kodi, seriously.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:34 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
No I’m not kidding. I wouldn’t have asked the question otherwise. Before today I last read on the legality of this around 2014-2015 and only saw articles stating that uploading and sharing are illegal, not streaming.

It's stealing. You are watching the movie or show without paying. It is absolutely illegal. Sorry, I figured it was common knowledge.

I do it, but I know it's illegal. You should use a VPN on Kodi, seriously.


For the record I always use a VPN regardless. It’s just habit.

Here is an example of what I’m talking about regarding legality. Downloading and sharing are both illegal. Streaming is not.
But is streaming unlicensed content online illegal? Jim Gibson, director of the Intellectual Property Institute at the University of Richmond law school, told Business Insider that streaming online content breaks the law in two cases.

When the user downloads even part of a file - called "pseudo-streaming" - it counts as a copy of copyrighted material, which is illegal. And when the user streams content as a "public performance" - namely, when it's shown to a substantial number of people outside the normal family circle and its close acquaintances - it also constitutes a copyright violation.

Outside of these cases, accessing unlicensed streamed content is generally legal.


http://www.businessinsider.com/are-stre ... gal-2014-4
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:37 am

My vision of PM finding out streaming on Kodi is illegal. :D

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It's all love, just funny... I stream on Kodi also sometimes, but run a VPN at the house I pay like $50 for the year for.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:39 am

DreadNaught wrote:My vision of PM finding out streaming on Kodi is illegal. :D

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It's all love, just funny... I stream on Kodi also sometimes, but run a VPN at the house I pay like $50 for the year for.


That’s pretty funny.

Which VPN do you use?
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:42 am

Another example. Streaming is not illegal. It may be one day and it might be in the UK, but it isn’t here. I am 100% open to being wrong, but I haven’t seen where I am wrong.

Movies are, technically, protected by copyright law. If you are a nineties kid, you will remember the bright green or ominous red FBI warnings that played before the movie on VHS tapes. Intellectual property law deems that it’s illegal to distribute a movie for profit without due permission of the copyright holder. Nowadays, people are less likely to nick VHS tapes than to share files online. This is where the legal lines blur. Whether you are committing a crime will depend on whether you are streaming, downloading or uploading a movie online.

You may have heard of infamous cases where regular people were prosecuted for sharing or streaming movies or music online. There were infamous cases like the one targeting Napster in the nineties. But don’t panic just yet. The authorities prosecute people only for distributing movies without permission online. If you download or upload a movie to a streaming website, then you are committing a crime. If you share illegal movies online in return for a profit, then your actions will definitely fall into the criminal category.

However, streaming movies is an entirely different activity. You are not uploading or downloading anything. You are not sharing files with peers for profit or otherwise. You are just watching a movie that someone else has uploaded. You are not paying for possibly criminally acquired intellectual property material. You have no way of knowing how the movie got there. These facts make it quite hard for the authorities to prosecute you.

The law, by far, is still unclear when it comes to streaming free movies online, or for visiting possibly illegal movie websites.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.computer ... nline/amp/
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Buc2 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:48 am

There you go, USC. You can continue streaming your porn without worrying about doing jail time.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:53 am

Ricky agrees its not illegal

*warning -- language NSFW


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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby Deuce » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:08 pm

BucJordan wrote:
Deuce wrote:I finally got the perfect setup. I got Sling TV Blue- $25 a month. Only get about 20-25 channels I'd say but they're the channels I actually watch. NBC and FOX are on demand, Food Network, TBS, NFL Network, Travel, etc. On demand shows for every network. I also got an antenna for local channels. This allows me to watch the major networks but most importantly, football.

The only "cheating" is I used my parents log-in to get WatchESPN. Only use it for MNF. Also have a friend's log-in for Netflix but it rarely gets used. Could get it myself for $8 if need be.

Pro tip for Sling TV subcribers- like I said, on demand shows for every network. Go to NFL Network's on demand section and you can watch the condensed games any time.


I use Playstation Vue right now and it gives me everything I'm looking for - NFLN, ESPN, Regional Sports and Cloud DVR. It's been $35/mo up until now which has been a steal, but prices are going up to $45 next month, so I'm still deciding whether or not to switch to Sling or some other service. It doesn't look like I can get the combo of NFLN/ESPN/DVR for any cheaper.

5-10 years ago I'd probably be using Kodi, but I find myself shying away from the illegal content now. As a poor college kid I was able to justify it to myself, but now that I'm gainfully employed I feel too guilty, considering how bad it is for the industry.


I tend to shy away from illegal content these days as well. Like everything else, I don't mind giving my money to corporations who make a product I like. I love Sling TV Blue- I've watched all of the condensed NFL games the past two weeks, I watch sitcoms like Seinfeld on demand when I "just want something on", and the times when I do want to find something interesting, I look to Food Network, Travel, NatGeo, or an on demand movie.

One thing is apparent in Sling packages- Disney are ***holes. You can trade like 15 channels to get Disney channel and ESPN. And ABC is nowhere to be found.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby BucJordan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:32 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:I do the same thing the cooperation does in this situation: look out for my bottom line. When they make content affordable and worth buying it I will and do.


The above statement is exactly what we should do as consumers. But you left off the most important part: And until then I will steal it, because it's not quite worth buying, but I still feel entitled to it.

PrimeMinister wrote:Regarding your Apple example you would be ok with stealing an iPhone if you were broke enough, right? You said you used streams in college, but now with other options like Sling you feel guilty. It’s not like you just avoided watching while in college. So your problem is that you think prices are low enough now that people shouldn’t “steal” like you did when the high prices justified the theft. Do I have the right?


First no, there are plenty of substitutes for an iPhone (I'm an Android guy anyway) and I would use one of those cheaper alternatives if I were broke.

Second, I admitted I did it in college, yes. I never said it was justified, I said I justified it to myself (we humans are good at that when it's self-serving). There's a lot of things I did in college I wouldn't do now. At the time yes, I was selfish and didn't want to have to buy music, movies, or pay for premium cable. I grew up in the age of Napster and Limewire, then torrents and piracy was essentially ingrained in my generation's culture. I didn't (want to) put the thought into the morality of it. And yes, the fact that all of these cheaper alternatives didn't exist certainly made the decision even easier. The nerve of those corporations expecting me to pay so much for that!

At some point I just grew out of that way of thinking. In my opinion, it's just not fair or right to Musicians/Artists to steal their music, to Directors/Actors to steal their movies or TV shows, or yes, even to the big bad corporations to steal their content. No matter how rich they are.

Did Hulu/Netflix/Amazon/Vue/Slingbox/Redbox/Pandora/Spotify help make that conclusion easier or speed it along? Probably, and I'm damn glad for it. The added level of alternatives and substitutes in the marketplace has forced change and it's all been good for consumers.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:36 pm

BucJordan, did you see the links I posted showing that it isn’t stealing?
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby BucJordan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:58 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:BucJordan, did you see the links I posted showing that it isn’t stealing?


Yeah I just read your link. Admittedly, it looks pretty foggy. Basically, the copy it makes on your computer in order to stream might not be long enough to be considered possession/ownership in court. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that U.S. lawmakers are having trouble keeping up with the technology - apparently the U.K. is ahead of us in that regard but I expect we'll get there eventually.

Anyway, If my problem with it was fear of prosecution that article would make me feel better. But I think my previous posts have made it clear that my problem with it is that it's unethical. I mean, it's taking something for sale and enjoying it for free without the seller's permission. I can't think of a better word than theft, and I haven't heard any legitimate justification for it besides, quite simply, wanting it, but not bad enough to pay for it.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby deltbucs » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:12 pm

BucJordan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:BucJordan, did you see the links I posted showing that it isn’t stealing?


Yeah I just read your link. Admittedly, it looks pretty foggy. Basically, the copy it makes on your computer in order to stream might not be long enough to be considered possession/ownership in court. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that U.S. lawmakers are having trouble keeping up with the technology - apparently the U.K. is ahead of us in that regard but I expect we'll get there eventually.

Anyway, If my problem with it was fear of prosecution that article would make me feel better. But I think my previous posts have made it clear that my problem with it is that it's unethical. I mean, it's taking something for sale and enjoying it for free without the seller's permission. I can't think of a better word than theft, and I haven't heard any legitimate justification for it besides, quite simply, wanting it, but not bad enough to pay for it.

Did you read the link I posted showing them stealing hundreds of billions from us?
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby BucJordan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:29 pm

deltbucs wrote:Did you read the link I posted showing them stealing hundreds of billions from us?


Yeah, and the government didn't hold them accountable. Shitty...but not the first or last time I won't agree with where my tax money went. I have no love for cable companies and am glad I can get by without subscribing anymore. I wish I had a good alternative for internet too, but it is what it is.
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Re: Cord-cutters

Postby NYBF » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:31 pm

Did we ever find out how the TV is doing badly?
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