With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers select

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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:48 pm

Doctor wrote:What I hate when talking QBs is that we treat everything as if it's in a vacuum.

There are so many QBs that could Mahommes out on the league after being groomed for awhile, but never get to because they are thrown in right away before being old news. If Rodgers was put in day 1 his career could look a lot like Josh Rosen's right now and vise versa. Sure, we like to hero-worship, especially in sports, and we like thinking some players just "have it" and others "don't" and that's just that, but that's not real life.

I really like Herbert, if we can sign like a Dalton or something for a while. But if we're planning on throwing Herbert in week 1, I do not see that going well.


The success or failure of ANY prospect is dependent on a million things, many of which have zero to do with the prospect.

It's worth remembering also that this is true of them WHILE they're in college. You have to ask yourself, would Tua be a top three lock if he'd played for Tennessee? Probably not. Would James Morgan from FIU be a first rounder if the "I" was an "S"? Again, possibly.

It's rarely simple.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Doctor » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:48 pm

Snake wrote:
Doctor wrote:There are so many QBs that could Mahommes out on the league after being groomed for awhile, but never get to because they are thrown in right away before being old news..

I don’t agree with this. Sitting the bench doesn’t fix what makes most NFL QBs suck imo

Andy Reid also turned McNabb (who had pedigree) into a 6x pro bowler. It’s doubtful Mahomes would do what he’s doing on many other teams under different tutelage. But that’s neither here nor there. He’s a absolutely tremendous talent but Reid provides an inflation.


You know they do other things than just sit on the bench right? It's called practice for a reason.... Also, there were several articles on how McCarthy had to rebuild Rodgers throwing mechanics from the ground up. Now they are great, but imagine if either they weren't fixed before he was thrown into the line up or he was expected to fix them on the fly. It probably would not have resulted in the player we see today.

Every QB is different. Some come far more polished than other, some learn the playbook faster than others, some pick up the speed of the game faster than others, etc. At the end of the day if he falls short in any of those characteristics you can usually fix most in practice. So when you send him out there you put him in the best position to succeed. Some guys may not need much time at all and can go in right away, some guys may need a couple of months or a couple of seasons. But if it means succeeding in finding a franchise QB for your team for the next two decades, it's a small cost. Not only that, you don't get anything by pretending a guy is more prepared than he is. In fact that almost always results in bust.

I would love to get a QB like Herbert or Hurts. But if we're just going to set them up for failure by demanding them be rookie saviors from day 1 to then only waste the next 5 years giving them more time, I'd rather just go with Dalton.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby SDBucs » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:48 pm

Crazy idea but how about we go O-line so that we can actually establish a run game and protect our QB BEFORE bringing in a new QB

Set the stage for the QB instead of thinking the QB will set the stage for us
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:59 pm

SDBucs wrote:Crazy idea but how about we go O-line so that we can actually establish a run game and protect our QB BEFORE bringing in a new QB

Set the stage for the QB instead of thinking the QB will set the stage for us


Unless you really love a guy, bring in your QB when you have a team around him to support him. Peyton Manning got to spend his early years throwing to Marvin Harrison with Tarik Glenn blocking his blindside and Marshall Faulk bailing him out. Obviously, that all might be a bit much to ask, but I like the principle.

Unfortunately, assuming Arians and Licht are back, and assuming we finish last place or close to it, the last thing either one of them is going to want to do is build a foundation for the next guys.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Konatown » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:05 am

You know we’re going to have Jameis next year, and draft Grant Delpit in the top 10. OL May get some looks in rounds 2/3 (unless there’s a CB there).
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:05 am

MJW wrote:
SDBucs wrote:Crazy idea but how about we go O-line so that we can actually establish a run game and protect our QB BEFORE bringing in a new QB

Set the stage for the QB instead of thinking the QB will set the stage for us


Unless you really love a guy, bring in your QB when you have a team around him to support him. Peyton Manning got to spend his early years throwing to Marvin Harrison with Tarik Glenn blocking his blindside and Marshall Faulk bailing him out. Obviously, that all might be a bit much to ask, but I like the principle.

Unfortunately, assuming Arians and Licht are back, and assuming we finish last place or close to it, the last thing either one of them is going to want to do is build a foundation for the next guys.

A franchise LT would help both causes- would help Arians win now, and would be beneficial to a rookie QB in a couple of years.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Cheb » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:07 pm

Konatown wrote:You know we’re going to have Jameis next year, and draft Grant Delpit in the top 10. OL May get some looks in rounds 2/3 (unless there’s a CB there).


It hurts because it's true.

Resign Precious against all logic and reason? Check.

Draft a LSU defender? Check.

Who's a rookie defensive back expected to save our atrocious defense? Check.

And he's probably not BPA on draft night? Check.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Cheb » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:57 pm

I took an extended look at Wirfs today, the Iowa right tackle that's a consensus top ten pick. He's been mocked to us a few times, time to really get to know him.
Here he is versus pro-level talent against Michigan and Wisconsin this year. Look for #74.





Yeesh.

Needless to say, I don't think he's very good. Slow feet, lots of lunging and waist-bending, doesn't sustain contact well, doesn't use his strength well, poor hand placement, underwhelming punch, and (even though it's overrated in evaluation) some stumpy-looking arms. I think he's got developmental mid-round guard written all over him.

Top ten pick? Buyer beware.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:50 pm

Watch the Mississippi State tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHvJ0l0kjI

He looks like a totally different player.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Natural Selection » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:27 am

Oof......... :lol:
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:36 am

SDBucs wrote:Crazy idea but how about we go O-line so that we can actually establish a run game and protect our QB BEFORE bringing in a new QB

Set the stage for the QB instead of thinking the QB will set the stage for us



The o-line prospects are going to move around but I'm thinking, as always with us, with o-line it's going to be pick and hope.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:45 pm

Natural Selection wrote:Oof......... :lol:


Do you have something to contribute, Bootz? Is Wirfs the wrong shade for you?
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Natural Selection » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:10 am

This Wirfs thing might have you on tilt, but are you sure that’s how you want to represent yourself? Didn’t want to quote it in case you just want to take that down. Yet another example of how toxic this place is. You’re one of the better posters here.

You’re wrong. As I’ve said repeatedly. Openly asking for admin/moderator to verify multiple times now. Do I have anything to contribute? My football opinions have been met with little but trolling since I first started posting.

I watched the bowl game you put up. He got beasted by Simmons the couple times they lined up. Sweat beat him most of the time (dozen + snaps together) and smoked him cleanly when Wirfs didn’t have some TE help. Wirfs has a couple other embarrassing snaps against other defenders as well. A head fake literally brought him to his knees, didn’t even touch the blitzer, allowing the lb a free shot on his QB. He drifted while blocking no one and let a delayed blitz come through his gap clean on another. How did you feel he looked like a different player there?
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Alpha » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:08 am

(After the Yucks finish with the #15 pick, after winning a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the year)...we select:
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Alpha » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:13 am

Natural Selection wrote:This Wirfs thing might have you on tilt, but are you sure that’s how you want to represent yourself? Didn’t want to quote it in case you just want to take that down. Yet another example of how toxic this place is. You’re one of the better posters here.

You’re wrong. As I’ve said repeatedly. Openly asking for admin/moderator to verify multiple times now. Do I have anything to contribute? My football opinions have been met with little but trolling since I first started posting.


On behalf of the admin/mod:

Quit being an over-sensitive *****.

If "this place" is so "toxic"...you're welcome to pound sand.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:40 am

bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:47 am

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go



Were trading out of the first round? LOL
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:06 am

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go

The rumbles are low right now, but if you listen good you can hear them reverberating out of OBP...


Ja-miss

Ja-miss

Ja-miss
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Teitan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:33 am

DreadNaught wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go

The rumbles are low right now, but if you listen good you can hear them reverberating out of OBP...


Ja-miss

Ja-miss

Ja-INT



Fixed. And that’s actually them just running through a play by play on a normal Sunday.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:26 am

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go

yup
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Cheb » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:32 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go


When you're right, you're right.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Buc2 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:45 pm

With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers select someone nobody here will want or, somebody people will proclaim they never wanted after the player busts in 2-3 years.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:15 pm

Natural Selection wrote:This Wirfs thing might have you on tilt, but are you sure that’s how you want to represent yourself? Didn’t want to quote it in case you just want to take that down. Yet another example of how toxic this place is. You’re one of the better posters here.

You’re wrong. As I’ve said repeatedly. Openly asking for admin/moderator to verify multiple times now. Do I have anything to contribute? My football opinions have been met with little but trolling since I first started posting.

I watched the bowl game you put up. He got beasted by Simmons the couple times they lined up. Sweat beat him most of the time (dozen + snaps together) and smoked him cleanly when Wirfs didn’t have some TE help. Wirfs has a couple other embarrassing snaps against other defenders as well. A head fake literally brought him to his knees, didn’t even touch the blitzer, allowing the lb a free shot on his QB. He drifted while blocking no one and let a delayed blitz come through his gap clean on another. How did you feel he looked like a different player there?


Cool story, Bootz.

If this place is so toxic, put on your little smock and sweep some hair. We survived without you quite happily for some time. We can do it again, Bootz.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby MJW » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:17 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go


Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Nano » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go


Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.

Jason Licht on the hiring of his 27th HC: I'm inclined to believe that we finally got it right this time
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:23 pm

Nano wrote:
MJW wrote:
Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.

Jason Licht on the hiring of his 27th HC: I'm inclined to believe that we finally got it right this time

I was gonna make a joke about Licht hiring Keith Tandy as HC in 2029, but Dom drafted him so the joke won't work.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:24 pm

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go


Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.

Arians track record gives him the privilege of a 2nd year to make it happen.

I actually think we are pretty close. When our CBs can cover, we are tough to beat as we saw yesterday. And Davis/Dean are looking legit. If they are? We have a good defence- and we have the weapons on O to put up a ton of points.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Deuce » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:27 pm

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go


Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.


You forgot: We'll win 3 out of our last 5 games. Not enough to mean anything, just enough to push us down draft boards and give us hope for another year.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby Deuce » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:29 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:
Yep. We'll draft a couple guys, use our cap room to overpay for 2-3 free agents, and spend the offseason as a trendy sleeper pick. We will quickly and decisively disappoint.

Then we can do this again in a year.

Arians track record gives him the privilege of a 2nd year to make it happen.

I actually think we are pretty close. When our CBs can cover, we are tough to beat as we saw yesterday. And Davis/Dean are looking legit. If they are? We have a good defence- and we have the weapons on O to put up a ton of points.


Let's give it more than one game against an equally bad Falcons team (3-7 coming in, 3-8 now) before proclaiming that we're "pretty close." I get on this train every year and I'm resisting this year but I suspect most fans/posters will jump right back on board.
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Re: With the first pick of the 2020 draft, the buccaneers se

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:32 pm

Deuce wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Arians track record gives him the privilege of a 2nd year to make it happen.

I actually think we are pretty close. When our CBs can cover, we are tough to beat as we saw yesterday. And Davis/Dean are looking legit. If they are? We have a good defence- and we have the weapons on O to put up a ton of points.


Let's give it more than one game against an equally bad Falcons team (3-7 coming in, 3-8 now) before proclaiming that we're "pretty close." I get on this train every year and I'm resisting this year but I suspect most fans/posters will jump right back on board.

It really just boils down to whether these CBs can cover or not. And while the Falcons have their issues, Jones and Ridley are a heck of a duo at WR, and our CBs gave them fits. I’m not ready to pronounce the D as legit yet, but there are positive signs, and we should know by end of year.
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