Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:24 pm

Konatown wrote:I can see us targeting a mid round QB (maybe as high as a 3rd) next year as an insurance policy for Winston. Fitzy’s not getting any younger

Regardless of today's developments, I'd agree. A good, young backup QB would be a nice addition. Especially if the team does well this year. Somebody like Jarret Stidham from Auburn or Nick Fitzgerald from Missisippi State.

I saw Brett Rypien last year vs. Troy and he looked like ****.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Cheb » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm

Konatown wrote:I can see us targeting a mid round QB (maybe as high as a 3rd) next year as an insurance policy for Winston. Fitzy’s not getting any younger


I agree. Even before the recent developments in the Uber incident, I thought the Bucs would have been wise to secure a young developmental draftee.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:35 pm

Cheb wrote:
Konatown wrote:I can see us targeting a mid round QB (maybe as high as a 3rd) next year as an insurance policy for Winston. Fitzy’s not getting any younger


I agree. Even before the recent developments in the Uber incident, I thought the Bucs would have been wise to secure a young developmental draftee.

A Glennon to Winston's Freeman so to speak....
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:03 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Konatown wrote:I can see us targeting a mid round QB (maybe as high as a 3rd) next year as an insurance policy for Winston. Fitzy’s not getting any younger

Regardless of today's developments, I'd agree. A good, young backup QB would be a nice addition. Especially if the team does well this year. Somebody like Jarret Stidham from Auburn or Nick Fitzgerald from Missisippi State.

I saw Brett Rypien last year vs. Troy and he looked like ****.


This. We should've drafted more QBs between now and 2015 instead of just the 1 in Winston. And it has zero to do with today. Smart money says draft and develop as many QBs as you can reasonably. Even 1 would've been something but over the last 3 drafts we haven't taken 1. Not good.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby BucaRican » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:26 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Regardless of today's developments, I'd agree. A good, young backup QB would be a nice addition. Especially if the team does well this year. Somebody like Jarret Stidham from Auburn or Nick Fitzgerald from Missisippi State.

I saw Brett Rypien last year vs. Troy and he looked like ****.


This. We should've drafted more QBs between now and 2015 instead of just the 1 in Winston. And it has zero to do with today. Smart money says draft and develop as many QBs as you can reasonably. Even 1 would've been something but over the last 3 drafts we haven't taken 1. Not good.


Agreed, but you once argued that we were good because Ryan Griffin was in the system. I didn't agree with you, but maybe the Bucs had the same thought as you. They probably thought Winston was going to be here for a very long time and Griffin was a good system QB. Baffles me that they would not even have taken 1 to light a fire behind Winston. Winston was given the keys from day one and never had anyone challenge for his position even with all of his struggles.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Daniel Jeremiah has a look at Auburn QB Jarrett Stidham who he compares to Derek Carr. Bolded my points of interest.

Auburn should be one of the more fascinating teams to follow in the upcoming college football season. The Tigers' defense is loaded with talent, and they return one of the top signal-callers in the country: Jarrett Stidham. Gus Malzahn's squad has all of the ingredients to win a national championship. We already witnessed the Tigers' immense potential last season, when they knocked off both teams that ended up playing in the national championship game. But for Auburn to maximize its promise in 2018 -- and play for the ultimate prize on January 7 -- it will need Stidham to be a little more consistent. I spent some time studying his play from last season and here is my First Look report:

Jarrett Stidham, redshirt junior quarterback, Auburn

Height, weight: 6-foot-3, 215 pounds (school measurements).

2017 statistics: 246-of-370 (66.5 percent) for 3,158 yards, 18 TDs and 6 INTs.

Game tape watched: Arkansas (Oct. 21, 2017), Georgia (Nov. 11, 2017), Alabama (Nov. 25, 2017).
What I liked: Stidham lacks elite size, but he's big enough for the position. He has plenty of arm strength and throws a very tight ball. I was quite impressed after watching him spin it at the Elite 11 camp a few weeks ago. The 21-year-old is very accurate in the quick game and shows the ability to change ball speed. He really excels throwing the deep ball coming off play action, and he does a good job using the width of the field to give guys plenty of room to run under the ball.

Stidham is also very effective throwing on the move. He squares his shoulders and displays the ability to layer the ball over underneath defenders. His athleticism is a big asset in the running game. He's used on designed QB draws, as well as in the zone-read game. He has similar athleticism to Mitchell Trubisky when he was coming out of North Carolina.

Where he needs to improve: It's tough to evaluate the quarterback in Malzahn's attack because of the lack of intermediate throws and full-field reads. This offense heavily features the quick game, deep shots off play action and gadget plays. There were a few examples of his ability to drive the ball down the seam and connect on deep-over routs, but they are few and far between. He'll likely need some time to develop in the NFL, due to the limited opportunities in this area.

I'd also like to see Stidham improve his patience in the pocket. His internal clock goes off too early at times and he will take off running. As a result, there are some missed opportunities and he takes unnecessary hits as a runner. This can be improved with more reps, and I think he'll be more comfortable in the upcoming season.

Biggest takeaway: Last year, Auburn's offense was heavily run-based, but I expect Stidham to have more control this fall. He is arguably the most talented thrower in the country, but he needs to continue to develop as a pure quarterback. I was very impressed after seeing him throw in person at Elite 11, and I look forward to seeing him live -- in a game setting -- this fall.

He reminds me of: Derek Carr. Both guys have a similar body type and are excellent athletes for the position. They have the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows and are accurate on the move. Carr displayed better touch coming out of college, but Stidham is competent in that department. Both guys come from a spread attack, although Carr played in a more traditional system earlier in his collegiate career. Carr has established himself as a top-tier quarterback in the NFL, and I believe Stidham has similar potential.

I can't wait to see him play: Washington on Sept. 1. In the marquee game of college football's opening weekend, Stidham will be challenged by one of the top secondaries in the nation. Washington has depth at cornerback, and Taylor Rapp is an outstanding safety. The Huskies run an aggressive scheme defensively, and they have all offseason to prepare for Stidham and the Malzahn attack. If Stidham performs well on this stage, against this opponent, it could really kick-start his Heisman campaign. It would also grab the attention of NFL evaluators.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby BucaRican » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:00 pm

McKenzie Milton (UCF)

His size is clearly and issue but his intangibles are pretty damn good. He is extremely accurate, and he can move. If we can grab him 3-4 next yr I would not be mad. Even if somehow Winston stays.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:58 pm

BucaRican wrote:McKenzie Milton (UCF)

His size is clearly and issue but his intangibles are pretty damn good. He is extremely accurate, and he can move. If we can grab him 3-4 next yr I would not be mad. Even if somehow Winston stays.

Have you ever watched a non-UCF college football game?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby BucaRican » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:25 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
BucaRican wrote:McKenzie Milton (UCF)

His size is clearly and issue but his intangibles are pretty damn good. He is extremely accurate, and he can move. If we can grab him 3-4 next yr I would not be mad. Even if somehow Winston stays.

Have you ever watched a non-UCF college football game?


Have you ever watched one? I have actually, and please look at how many UCF players got drafted within the first 3 rounds of the 2018 NFL draft compared to the so called power 5 schools from Florida. Let me help you 3, the most out of the state of Florida, including a SEC team. Please stop disregarding UCF talent last yr; your power 5 homerism is showing.

Milton tore Auburn a new anus in the Peach Bowl, and if UCF starts hot this year better believe he will be on Heisman Watch.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Cheb » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:34 pm

BucaRican wrote:McKenzie Milton (UCF)

His size is clearly and issue but his intangibles are pretty damn good. He is extremely accurate, and he can move. If we can grab him 3-4 next yr I would not be mad. Even if somehow Winston stays.


Milton has a funky delivery. He generates nearly all of his throwing power from torso rotation and his arm, and extremely little from his legs. You'd think that would make him chronically shortarm the majority of his passes but that doesn't happen at all.

As a result of that, he could throw a fifty yarder standing inside of a phone booth, which is pretty impressive. His delivery is tight.

Maybe a bit too tight, if we're honest. Look at him. His base is incredibly narrow. On the pro side, this keeps him balanced; on the con, it's going to be very difficult to elude rushers in the pocket when you can no longer outrun every defensive lineman on the field, as he did in college. But Brady also keeps a very narrow base so I guess to each their own.

Overall I like him. He's smart, was the offensive engine for his team, and can put up points. We will see this year how much of his success was due to Scott Frost.

Best case scenario he's Drew Brees with wheels. Worst case Johnny Football. Like I said, this year will be telling as to if he's got potential at the next level.

Of course I defer to our resident college football fans from the state of Florida. I admittedly haven't seen a ton of his games.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby uscbucsfan » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:25 pm

BucaRican wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Have you ever watched a non-UCF college football game?


Have you ever watched one? I have actually, and please look at how many UCF players got drafted within the first 3 rounds of the 2018 NFL draft compared to the so called power 5 schools from Florida. Let me help you 3, the most out of the state of Florida, including a SEC team. Please stop disregarding UCF talent last yr; your power 5 homerism is showing.

Milton tore Auburn a new anus in the Peach Bowl, and if UCF starts hot this year better believe he will be on Heisman Watch.

It's cute that you just create narratives.

I said nothing about the power 5 nor did I disparage UCF. You just only have input about UCF players and you routinely overvalue them like saying Griffin would be gone in the by the time we picked at 38, but we should find a way to get him.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 pm

BucaRican wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
This. We should've drafted more QBs between now and 2015 instead of just the 1 in Winston. And it has zero to do with today. Smart money says draft and develop as many QBs as you can reasonably. Even 1 would've been something but over the last 3 drafts we haven't taken 1. Not good.


Agreed, but you once argued that we were good because Ryan Griffin was in the system. I didn't agree with you, but maybe the Bucs had the same thought as you. They probably thought Winston was going to be here for a very long time and Griffin was a good system QB. Baffles me that they would not even have taken 1 to light a fire behind Winston. Winston was given the keys from day one and never had anyone challenge for his position even with all of his struggles.


I mean this in the nicest way possible, use common sense. You don't draft a QB 1st overall and then look to draft someone to challenge him for his job. Yes he was handed his job on a silver platter but that's what happens when you use a the most valuable draft pick on a player, #1 overall. Hell now a days that's what happens when you draft top 10 most likely. It's a major investment. Teams also understand that with that comes the process. The growing pains, ups, downs, etc. Winston thru all of his "struggles" still looks like a competent NFL QB on the field and he is improving.

Also not sure what you're referring to but I've always advocated for drafting young developmental QBs. I might have said we're good with Griffin in terms of looking for a high priced backup but I've never stated we shouldn't draft QBs because of Ryan Griffin.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:49 am

Any QBs in this draft aren't crackheads or rapists?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:20 am

real bucs fan wrote:Any QBs in this draft aren't crackheads or rapists?


I don't think any of them are either of those things. You don't think that either.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:40 am

Would be nice to have a first round QB who wasn't either of those things either....
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:06 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Would be nice to have a first round QB who wasn't either of those things either....


We don't need a 1st round QB.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby MJW » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:08 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
Agreed, but you once argued that we were good because Ryan Griffin was in the system. I didn't agree with you, but maybe the Bucs had the same thought as you. They probably thought Winston was going to be here for a very long time and Griffin was a good system QB. Baffles me that they would not even have taken 1 to light a fire behind Winston. Winston was given the keys from day one and never had anyone challenge for his position even with all of his struggles.


I mean this in the nicest way possible, use common sense. You don't draft a QB 1st overall and then look to draft someone to challenge him for his job. Yes he was handed his job on a silver platter but that's what happens when you use a the most valuable draft pick on a player, #1 overall. Hell now a days that's what happens when you draft top 10 most likely. It's a major investment. Teams also understand that with that comes the process. The growing pains, ups, downs, etc. Winston thru all of his "struggles" still looks like a competent NFL QB on the field and he is improving.

Also not sure what you're referring to but I've always advocated for drafting young developmental QBs. I might have said we're good with Griffin in terms of looking for a high priced backup but I've never stated we shouldn't draft QBs because of Ryan Griffin.


We can't pretend his off the field issues don't exist. We're not talking about your standard narrative, where, say, Marcus Mariota has done some good things and some bad things but it's ride or die as he continues to grow. There is every reason to believe Winston is one more bad night away from a yearlong suspension - or worse.

Does that mean I'm flat-out advocating targeting a QB in the first round? No. But the Buccaneers have no excuse at this point to put a real contingency plan in place this offseason. It would be foolhardy not to. Whether that means a high-ish draft pick, or a backup who could be a starter/stopgap, I dunno. Winston has stripped from this team the luxury of simply treating him like any other developing first round QB.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby MJW » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:12 pm

In retrospect, I really wish we'd made a push for AJ McCarron or Teddy Bridgewater, or maybe moved up a bit for Kyle Lauletta.

And no, I'm not interested in dissecting any one of them. I just wish we had a plan in place with more upside than 38 year old noodle-armed Fitzpatrick or Ryan "Default: the two sweetest words in the English Language!" Griffin.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:31 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I mean this in the nicest way possible, use common sense. You don't draft a QB 1st overall and then look to draft someone to challenge him for his job. Yes he was handed his job on a silver platter but that's what happens when you use a the most valuable draft pick on a player, #1 overall. Hell now a days that's what happens when you draft top 10 most likely. It's a major investment. Teams also understand that with that comes the process. The growing pains, ups, downs, etc. Winston thru all of his "struggles" still looks like a competent NFL QB on the field and he is improving.

Also not sure what you're referring to but I've always advocated for drafting young developmental QBs. I might have said we're good with Griffin in terms of looking for a high priced backup but I've never stated we shouldn't draft QBs because of Ryan Griffin.


We can't pretend his off the field issues don't exist. We're not talking about your standard narrative, where, say, Marcus Mariota has done some good things and some bad things but it's ride or die as he continues to grow. There is every reason to believe Winston is one more bad night away from a yearlong suspension - or worse.

Does that mean I'm flat-out advocating targeting a QB in the first round? No. But the Buccaneers have no excuse at this point to put a real contingency plan in place this offseason. It would be foolhardy not to. Whether that means a high-ish draft pick, or a backup who could be a starter/stopgap, I dunno. Winston has stripped from this team the luxury of simply treating him like any other developing first round QB.


We know he has had an off-field issue. We know the possible consequences going forward if there's another similar situation. Now what? Outside of flat out using our 1st round pick on a QB next draft, how can we not treat him like any other developing 1st round QB? He's going to be expensive starting next March, like it or not. People can make arbitrary, broad statements like "he won't get as much as he would have if this situation didn't happen" all they want but without definitive numbers it's irrelevant. He's going to be the highest paid player on a team with now limited cap space and other tough decisions to make.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:33 pm

MJW wrote:In retrospect, I really wish we'd made a push for AJ McCarron or Teddy Bridgewater, or maybe moved up a bit for Kyle Lauletta.

And no, I'm not interested in dissecting any one of them. I just wish we had a plan in place with more upside than 38 year old noodle-armed Fitzpatrick or Ryan "Default: the two sweetest words in the English Language!" Griffin.


We do have a plan in place. Fitz or Griffin for 3 games then Winston. Or do you think he won't play for the Bucs this season?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby MJW » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:43 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:In retrospect, I really wish we'd made a push for AJ McCarron or Teddy Bridgewater, or maybe moved up a bit for Kyle Lauletta.

And no, I'm not interested in dissecting any one of them. I just wish we had a plan in place with more upside than 38 year old noodle-armed Fitzpatrick or Ryan "Default: the two sweetest words in the English Language!" Griffin.


We do have a plan in place. Fitz or Griffin for 3 games then Winston. Or do you think he won't play for the Bucs this season?


You're being obtuse. Winston has a long history of making bad decisions. He's one more bad decision away from missing a lot more than 3 games. Do you disagree with either of those points? If not, then a 38 year old journeyman backup up by a waiver-wire never was is not enough.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:46 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
We do have a plan in place. Fitz or Griffin for 3 games then Winston. Or do you think he won't play for the Bucs this season?


You're being obtuse. Winston has a long history of making bad decisions. He's one more bad decision away from missing a lot more than 3 games. Do you disagree with either of those points? If not, then a 38 year old journeyman backup up by a waiver-wire never was is not enough.


Yes. We know this. But his suspension is over after the 3rd game. Do you disagree with that or do you think he'll miss more games this season?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby MJW » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
You're being obtuse. Winston has a long history of making bad decisions. He's one more bad decision away from missing a lot more than 3 games. Do you disagree with either of those points? If not, then a 38 year old journeyman backup up by a waiver-wire never was is not enough.


Yes. We know this. But his suspension is over after the 3rd game. Do you disagree with that or do you think he'll miss more games this season?


For this infraction? Probably not. At least, I hope not. But at this point, NOT preparing for another shoe to drop is the equivalent of not getting fire insurance for your flamethrower museum because it's not on fire right now. Because of his broken decision making process, and/or alcoholism, there needs to be a low-level starter quality backup on this 53 for as long as Winston is here. Anything less, we deserve what we'd get.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:59 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Yes. We know this. But his suspension is over after the 3rd game. Do you disagree with that or do you think he'll miss more games this season?


For this infraction? Probably not. At least, I hope not. But at this point, NOT preparing for another shoe to drop is the equivalent of not getting fire insurance for your flamethrower museum because it's not on fire right now. Because of his broken decision making process, and/or alcoholism, there needs to be a low-level starter quality backup on this 53 for as long as Winston is here. Anything less, we deserve what we'd get.


Low level=Fitz/Griffin. You've told me as such since Fitz has been here. Or have you forgotten? You went on about how Fitz can go .500 in a short span as a starter. That's what we're looking at. Unless the case youre trying to make is that you believe Winston will get suspended further than these 3 games THIS SEASON for any infraction, I truly have no idea what you're arguing.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:04 pm

Fitz is going to be here this year, and probably no longer. Winston remains to be seen.

Either way. QB is on the radar for this draft. Can we please just discuss who these prospects may be in this thread rather than debate Winston vs. Fitz?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:07 pm

On the radio an unnamed NFL scout said this was a worse QB draft than 2013. That being said, how many QBs will go in the 1st?
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Nano » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:25 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:On the radio an unnamed NFL scout said this was a worse QB draft than 2013. That being said, how many QBs will go in the 1st?

Yeah, this draft class is looking a bit weak at the moment. Like MJW put in the earlier post, most of the top QBs have major flaws and there's really nobody right now that looks like they would deserve to go in the top 5, nevermind close to 1st overall. That said, I think that it will end up being closer to 2014 by draft time with multiple potential starters at QB, but nobody worth getting really hyped up about(But still, worst since 2013).

I can see probably 3 guys going in the first. Justin Herbert will probably be the top guy if he doesn't get hurt again, and Grier will probably go top half as well. I can see someone like Clayton Thronson or Drew Lock sneaking into the end of the 1st
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby BucaRican » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:59 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
Have you ever watched one? I have actually, and please look at how many UCF players got drafted within the first 3 rounds of the 2018 NFL draft compared to the so called power 5 schools from Florida. Let me help you 3, the most out of the state of Florida, including a SEC team. Please stop disregarding UCF talent last yr; your power 5 homerism is showing.

Milton tore Auburn a new anus in the Peach Bowl, and if UCF starts hot this year better believe he will be on Heisman Watch.

It's cute that you just create narratives.

I said nothing about the power 5 nor did I disparage UCF. You just only have input about UCF players and you routinely overvalue them like saying Griffin would be gone in the by the time we picked at 38, but we should find a way to get him.


Milton was 2nd to Mayfield in passing efficiency last year:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8

Milton was 4th in the Nation in Pass Tds:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/751

Milton was 7th in the nation in Pass Yards:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/453

Please tell me how I am overvaluing Milton again.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:09 pm

Okay. It's Ready.

Finished up the 2019 Spreadsheet and with contains the names of the 455 best draft prospects in the nation. For each man, I have their Name, Position, School, Conference, Height, Weight, Class, and space for notes.

What it has on it:
The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team offense and defense preseason all-conference players for the Power 5 as determined by Athlon.
The 1st team offense and defense of the remaining D1 conferences (Mac, CUSA, Sunbelt, etc.)
The 1st team offense and defense of the FCS schools
Seniors from Notre Dame and BYU
Noteworthy kick returners from all conferences listed above.
2017 mid-season and post season 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team All-Americans
2017 award winners and finalists (that didn't get drafted)
Some of my misc. notes from last season.

What it doesn't have on it:
Kickers & Punters
Underclassmen with notable exceptions such as Jonathan Taylor from Wisconsin
Redshirt status
Anybody flying under the radar right now.
Anybody mdb thinks would be good.

Big Board is sorted by school and then alphabetical. List can be filtered by any of the columns or sorted any way you like. Wanna see every Corner over 6'2 in the SEC? You can make that list.
Tabs are created for each position with a "rank" column allowing the user to create positional rankings. From those you can build a Big Board for Draft Day. They are currently sorted by weight.

PM me with a good email if you want a copy. I'd be happy to share. My labor is our mutual fun.
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Re: Players We Should Be Watching (2019)

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:48 am

You cant get it placed on Buczone? It would be a nice feature added to the site.
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