Bucs Doomsday Scenario

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The big 3 are gone, and you can't trade back...who is your pick at #7?

Derwin James
12
29%
Minkah Fitzpatrick
9
21%
Denzel Ward
11
26%
Vita Vea
9
21%
Marcus Davenport
0
No votes
Tremaine Edmunds
0
No votes
Josh Jackson
1
2%
Derrius Guice
0
No votes
Other (Please specify)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 42

Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:08 am

Doctor wrote:I'm not concerned with that bounce to the outside stuff. The same thing was said about LT, who Barkley actually reminds me a lot of.


LT ran with way more power. I'm not concerned out that stuff either but you're reaching here.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:20 am

A reach? Go back and read old LT reports and tell me they don't sound like Barkley reports. If anything

#5-LADAINIAN TOMLINSON Texas Christian University Horned Frogs 5:10.0-221
ANALYSIS
Positives... Well-built athlete with an outstanding size/speed package... Flashes quick moves off the snap and is very effective scanning the field when taking a pitch-out...Shows determination and power running between the tackles...Has a compact build and a strong lower frame that allows him to run through arm tackles...Shows strength breaking into the secondary... Takes good angles trying to accelerate past the line...Has good veer and weave running with the ball...Protects the ball securely and displays solid route-running skills with proper hand extension going for the screen passes...Very quick and decisive getting to off-target throws...Stands his ground firmly as a blocker picking up the blitz, facing up to deliver a forceful hand punch.

Negatives... Works better when taking the pitch-out, lacking the sudden moves to get off the snap from the proper stance...For all of his power, he seems to prefer to run out of bounds rather than turn upfield to gain extra yardage...not that productive when called upon to take the ball up the middle...Looks to make the "home run" plays too often, developing a reliance on that factor... Better when he gets a rolling start (best with a few yards to build up), but still lacks that explosive burst you'd want in a player with his quickness...Little tight in the hips, preventing him from developing any "shake-&-bake" moves...Willing blocker, but not one who can rock the defender back...Shows strength breaking low tackles, but does not have that quick first step to avoid nor does he use his power to move the pile.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:21 am

And would you look at this. I google "Barkley Negatives" to post a comparison and the very first link I click on ends with:

Player Comparison: LaDainian Tomlinson

https://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/saquon ... ison-37510
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:28 am

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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:31 am

I like this one too. This author has a good video on CB Isaiah Oliver also and has him as the CB1 in this draft mocked to the Bucs at 7.

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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:37 am

DreadNaught wrote:I like this one too. This author has a good video on CB Isaiah Oliver also and has him as the CB1 in this draft mocked to the Bucs at 7.


I love Isiah Oliver and he's one of my targets if we trade down. It'd be a dream for him to be there in the second but I really doubt it.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:43 am

Doctor wrote:Except they do.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

We're literally middle of the pack any way you slice it. And I dare you to say it's because we have Barry Sanders back there making up for bad OL play.



Funny you should say that; considering your very own link has us second to last in second level and open field rankings. I posted a link earlier in the off-season about our backs being contacted within 38” of the line. I’m sure that has nothing to do with line play, though.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:47 am

I think the LT comp is a good one. Still blows my mind that there's a huge faction of this board who don't want the guy at 7...
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:49 am

Rocker wrote:
Doctor wrote:Except they do.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

We're literally middle of the pack any way you slice it. And I dare you to say it's because we have Barry Sanders back there making up for bad OL play.



Funny you should say that; considering your very own link has us second to last in second level and open field rankings. I posted a link earlier in the off-season about our backs being contacted within 38” of the line. I’m sure that has nothing to do with line play, though.

And who does most of the work in the second level, the OL or the RB? I'll wait.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Caradoc » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:31 pm

Doctor wrote:And you're insane if that nit picky reason is what's stopping you from getting one of the greatest RB prospects of all time.
.



Every year the "greatest RB prospect of all time" comes out.

I swear there is no position in the draft that gets as overhyped as a RB, and no position that as consistently underperforms that hype.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Caradoc wrote:
Doctor wrote:And you're insane if that nit picky reason is what's stopping you from getting one of the greatest RB prospects of all time.
.



Every year the "greatest RB prospect of all time" comes out.

I swear there is no position in the draft that gets as overhyped as a RB, and no position that as consistently underperforms that hype.

Quarterback. But not so much this year.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

Every year the "greatest RB prospect of all time" comes out.

I swear there is no position in the draft that gets as overhyped as a RB, and no position that as consistently underperforms that hype.

Quarterback. But not so much this year.

Didn't MJW call Rosen a generational QB?

It was something close...maybe best QB since Luck?
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:12 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Quarterback. But not so much this year.

Didn't MJW call Rosen a generational QB?

It was something close...maybe best QB since Luck?


Yep, best QB prospect since Luck. But I can't control the perceptions of his personality. I don't know him. If he had Josh Allen's charm or Sam Darnold's charisma, I wouldn't be the only one saying so. He can make every throw, in every situation, and he gets better in big spots. He's basically Eli Manning.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:13 pm

Luck isn’t even the best QB of his draft so yea that comparison is ideal. But Rosen isn’t the best anything
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:15 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Luck isn’t even the best QB of his draft so yea that comparison is ideal. But Rosen isn’t the best anything


Are you saying there was a better QB prospect than Luck in the 2012 class?
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby theBKwhopper » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:36 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Luck isn’t even the best QB of his draft so yea that comparison is ideal. But Rosen isn’t the best anything


Are you saying there was a better QB prospect than Luck in the 2012 class?

I think he's just saying Luck hasn't been the best from that class, not that he wasn't the top prospect. Wasn't Russell Wilson in that class? I assume that's who Boots is referring to.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:43 pm

That’s revisionist history at its finest. EVERYONE was drooling over Andrew Luck the prospect.

His performance, or lack thereof due to injury, doesn’t change that fact.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:54 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:
MJW wrote:
Are you saying there was a better QB prospect than Luck in the 2012 class?

I think he's just saying Luck hasn't been the best from that class, not that he wasn't the top prospect. Wasn't Russell Wilson in that class? I assume that's who Boots is referring to.


I know he is. But the topic is "top prospect." Luck was not only the top prospect in that class, he was widely considered the best QB prospect since Elway.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:54 pm

Rocker wrote:That’s revisionist history at its finest. EVERYONE was drooling over Andrew Luck the prospect.

His performance, or lack thereof due to injury, doesn’t change that fact.


Exactly. But Bootz gonna Bootz.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby theBKwhopper » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:19 am

MJW wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:I think he's just saying Luck hasn't been the best from that class, not that he wasn't the top prospect. Wasn't Russell Wilson in that class? I assume that's who Boots is referring to.


I know he is. But the topic is "top prospect." Luck was not only the top prospect in that class, he was widely considered the best QB prospect since Elway.

Gotcha. My bad lol
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Super K » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:29 am

MJW wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Didn't MJW call Rosen a generational QB?

It was something close...maybe best QB since Luck?


Yep, best QB prospect since Luck. But I can't control the perceptions of his personality. I don't know him. If he had Josh Allen's charm or Sam Darnold's charisma, I wouldn't be the only one saying so. He can make every throw, in every situation, and he gets better in big spots. He's basically Eli Manning.


What? Get the hell outta here...

Both JW/MM were better prospects...and it ain't even that close..
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:30 am

MJW wrote:
Rocker wrote:That’s revisionist history at its finest. EVERYONE was drooling over Andrew Luck the prospect.

His performance, or lack thereof due to injury, doesn’t change that fact.


Exactly. But Bootz gonna Bootz.

Bootz was not drooling over Andrew Luck.

He was drooling over RGIII.

Russell Wilson had had about as much hype as Luke Faulk is getting.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:47 am

Rocker wrote:That’s revisionist history at its finest. EVERYONE was drooling over Andrew Luck the prospect.

His performance, or lack thereof due to injury, doesn’t change that fact.


Which is why my position has always been that it's pointless to drool over the prospect if you don't see them being the best once they get into the NFL. At least with Luck you could make a case. But with Rosen I cannot. He isn't the best QB prospect in this draft. He's not the best since 2012. Winston, Mariota, Wentz even. All better prospects. Rosen will not be the best QB from this draft class during his career either.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:49 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
MJW wrote:
Exactly. But Bootz gonna Bootz.

Bootz was not drooling over Andrew Luck.

He was drooling over RGIII.

Russell Wilson had had about as much hype as Luke Faulk is getting.


Wrong. 100% wrong. I don't know if it was you but someone years ago pulled the same "Bootz liked the black QB better" card that you're pulling now.

I said RG3 was more NFL ready but long term Luck would be better. Tell me I've been proven wrong.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Rocker » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:01 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Rocker wrote:That’s revisionist history at its finest. EVERYONE was drooling over Andrew Luck the prospect.

His performance, or lack thereof due to injury, doesn’t change that fact.


Which is why my position has always been that it's pointless to drool over the prospect if you don't see them being the best once they get into the NFL. At least with Luck you could make a case. But with Rosen I cannot. He isn't the best QB prospect in this draft. He's not the best since 2012. Winston, Mariota, Wentz even. All better prospects. Rosen will not be the best QB from this draft class during his career either.


I get your point but disagree.

If a highly rated prospect you covet matches up with need at the position; you take him and don’t look back, regardless of whether or not he’ll be the best at his position.

If you’re drooling over a prospect at a position of strength; he’d damn well better be one of the best to justify ignoring need somewhere else.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:04 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Bootz was not drooling over Andrew Luck.

He was drooling over RGIII.

Russell Wilson had had about as much hype as Luke Faulk is getting.


Wrong. 100% wrong. I don't know if it was you but someone years ago pulled the same "Bootz liked the black QB better" card that you're pulling now.

I said RG3 was more NFL ready but long term Luck would be better. Tell me I've been proven wrong.

You've been proven wrong. Very wrong. RG3 was able to get in his "sucker punch year" like a lot of other players have when there's no or limited tape on them. Heck, Mike Vick made a career out of it and got two huge contracts from it. But as soon as the NFL had tape on them, the shine quickly faded. That's the definition of NFL ready. Luck was far more ready for what the NFL through back at him his sophomore and junior year, than RG3 and it's not even close. Heck, even their freshmen year Luck was better, despite RG3 being flashier and more fun to watch.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:09 am

Doctor wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Wrong. 100% wrong. I don't know if it was you but someone years ago pulled the same "Bootz liked the black QB better" card that you're pulling now.

I said RG3 was more NFL ready but long term Luck would be better. Tell me I've been proven wrong.

You've been proven wrong. Very wrong. RG3 was able to get in his "sucker punch year" like a lot of other players have when there's no or limited tape on them. Heck, Mike Vick made a career out of it and got two huge contracts from it. But as soon as the NFL had tape on them, the shine quickly faded. That's the definition of NFL ready. Luck was far more ready for what the NFL through back at him his sophomore and junior year, than RG3 and it's not even close. Heck, even their freshmen year Luck was better, despite RG3 being flashier and more fun to watch.


RG3 won Rookie of the year while Luck threw 18 picks and completed 54% of his passes. But the latter was more NFL ready. Got it, kyddo.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:19 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Bootz was not drooling over Andrew Luck.

He was drooling over RGIII.

Russell Wilson had had about as much hype as Luke Faulk is getting.


Wrong. 100% wrong. I don't know if it was you but someone years ago pulled the same "Bootz liked the black QB better" card that you're pulling now.

I said RG3 was more NFL ready but long term Luck would be better. Tell me I've been proven wrong.

I don't remember it that way at all.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:25 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Wrong. 100% wrong. I don't know if it was you but someone years ago pulled the same "Bootz liked the black QB better" card that you're pulling now.

I said RG3 was more NFL ready but long term Luck would be better. Tell me I've been proven wrong.

I don't remember it that way at all.


Then you don't know what you're talking about and should stay in your lane, kyddo.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:30 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Doctor wrote:You've been proven wrong. Very wrong. RG3 was able to get in his "sucker punch year" like a lot of other players have when there's no or limited tape on them. Heck, Mike Vick made a career out of it and got two huge contracts from it. But as soon as the NFL had tape on them, the shine quickly faded. That's the definition of NFL ready. Luck was far more ready for what the NFL through back at him his sophomore and junior year, than RG3 and it's not even close. Heck, even their freshmen year Luck was better, despite RG3 being flashier and more fun to watch.


RG3 won Rookie of the year while Luck threw 18 picks and completed 54% of his passes. But the latter was more NFL ready. Got it, kyddo.

There he goes, trying to lean so hard on a popularity award. You know who else won ROY, Vince Young. You're really going to tell me he was more NFL ready? 54% is very good for a rookie. Especially one that threw 627 passes compared to RG3 393, that's the point of a QB right? To pass the ball? Gain more passing yards (or Luck out gained RG3 by 1100). Luck was far more of a QB than RG3 was, RG3 was just a flashy athlete who, like I said, got in his sucker punch year. That doesn't make him NFL ready. Entirely the opposite. He's was a gimmick you only get to successfully use for one year, like the wildcat offense.

You're trying to argue that you were "ready to fight Mayweather" because you sucker punched him at a bar. No, "ready to fight" is what went down *after* the sucker punch.
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