Bucs Doomsday Scenario

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post

The big 3 are gone, and you can't trade back...who is your pick at #7?

Derwin James
9
24%
Minkah Fitzpatrick
7
19%
Denzel Ward
11
30%
Vita Vea
9
24%
Marcus Davenport
0
No votes
Tremaine Edmunds
0
No votes
Josh Jackson
1
3%
Derrius Guice
0
No votes
Other (Please specify)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 37

Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Nano » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:32 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Do we have a 'Doomsday scenario thread' where those 3 are off the board and the Bucs can't trade back? I'd be interested to see a poll on who the board favors in that scenario.


We do now.


Basically, the worst case scenario has happened...only 3 QBs went in the top 6 picks. Nelson, Chubb, and Barkley are gone. Licht tried to trade back...but ultimately, with less than a minute on the clock, it's obvious that one won't happen. Who would you pick?


Also, what would be your personal doomsday scenario in regards to the Bucs?
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:37 pm

Derwin James if I had to pick 1. I'd be happy with anyone else on that list. Doomsday for me is Saquan Barkley. But if you think only 3 players are worth the 7th overall pick LMAO at your casual ass.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Teitan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:39 pm

Went with Ward. There are still some solid FA safties. Draft Ward, sign Reid and boom, secondary doesn’t look so bad.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby BucaRican » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:52 pm

Vita by far. I really like what we would be able to do up front with Vita, McCoy, Curry, JPP. I had to watch his tape again after someone mentioned in my mock they would have went Vita instead of Barkley.

The guy is so quick, its almost like having 2 McCoys on the line. It would be disruptive. Not to mention a great pass rush covers for bad DBs.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:58 pm

Wait, that? Fitz is in the big 3, Chubbs is just outside it. So in this scenario Fitz, easy. That guy is a baller.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:02 pm

Doctor wrote:Wait, that? Fitz is in the big 3, Chubbs is just outside it. So in this scenario Fitz, easy. That guy is a baller.

Agreed
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:19 pm

Teitan wrote:Went with Ward. There are still some solid FA safties. Draft Ward, sign Reid and boom, secondary doesn’t look so bad.


Same here.

Looking at our 'needs' and taking into account positional value and who we have on the roster for the next 2-3 years Ward makes the most sense to me.

Ward is an elite CB prospect and will be a good cover CB in the NFL. He's not getting out of the top 10 in any scenario imo since every NFL team can use a good cover CB.

Ward and Grimes would allow us to play better m2m coverage than we have, and hopefully more of it. We have a very athletic FS in Justin Evans and imo to be a great defense these days you have to be able to play m2m at times. Good QBs will just eat up C3 and quarters coverage so unless you can keep them out of 3rd and short all game you have to have CBs that can make plays in man coverage. Even predominantly zone teams like Seattle and Atlanta have mixed alot more m2m into their scheme recently, especially on 3rd down.

It also allows VH3 to stay at nickel where imo he is best at.

Do that, then sign Reid or Vaccaro to play SS opposite Evans and the Bucs secondary is much better off. Combine that with our LBs and upgrades on the Dline and it should result in a much improved unit.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Super K » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:30 pm

Doomsday my ass....Vea is my pick

As long as we come away with Chubb/Nelson/Vea at #7, we crushed it..
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Doctor » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:35 pm

Doomsday would be if Fitz is gone as well. Then IDK...

That's why we need a minimum of 3 QBs to go in front of us and we're good. 4 QB and we'll have a choice. With Fitz off the board too (that would be only 2 QBs taken and the 4 elites) and we couldn't trade back? Yuck. I guess it'd be between James and Ward.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Cheb » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:48 pm

I went with Ward because I feel that he's a better corner prospect than Minkah. Ward would fight VH3 for the number two job behind Grimes, loser goes to nickel. Ryan Smith is delegated to being a developmental and situational fourth corner because that's where he belongs and we never run dime.

I wouldn't complain much about Fitz, Vea, or James. All are good players. Not who I'd go with in this scenario, but I get it.

I'd loudly complain about Davenport, don't like him one bit. Edmunds would be a headscratcher; do you plan to make him a pass rusher? I don't like Jackson, I think he'll bust.

I'd be a bit puzzled by taking Guice that high, but if the brass like him that much as a starting back I'd understand that.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:48 pm

McCoy has another few years here and Beau Allen is still just 26. I know Allen isn't on the level of Vea, but they they would serve the same role here as playing the NT/1-tech. Both are 2-down players and with Allen already here I just don't see Vea's added value to the Bucs current roster for the next few years being close to what a CB like Ward or one of the top Safeties would provide.

Vea is comped to Haloti Ngata for a good reason. Other than both being Polynesian DTs, their physical and athletic measurables are both very similar. Even when Ngata was at his very best his best sack production was 5.5 in a season.

In 12 NFL seasons Ngata has hit 5 sacks just 3 times. Every other of the 9 seasons it's been less than 3 sacks.

I'm not spending the 7th overall pick on a Dlinemen that we'll be lucky to get 5 sacks from. I don't think Vea is a good fit for the aggressive, upfield style we play along the Dline. If the Bucs were a 2-gapping team defensively than sure, Vea has more value there.

I'd rather roll the dice and hope either Taven Bryan or Mo Hurst is there at 38. Interior DL is probably the deepest position in the entire draft class as well.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:11 pm

Ward easy
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby BucaRican » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:55 pm

DreadNaught wrote:McCoy has another few years here and Beau Allen is still just 26. I know Allen isn't on the level of Vea, but they they would serve the same role here as playing the NT/1-tech. Both are 2-down players and with Allen already here I just don't see Vea's added value to the Bucs current roster for the next few years being close to what a CB like Ward or one of the top Safeties would provide.

Vea is comped to Haloti Ngata for a good reason. Other than both being Polynesian DTs, their physical and athletic measurables are both very similar. Even when Ngata was at his very best his best sack production was 5.5 in a season.

In 12 NFL seasons Ngata has hit 5 sacks just 3 times. Every other of the 9 seasons it's been less than 3 sacks.

I'm not spending the 7th overall pick on a Dlinemen that we'll be lucky to get 5 sacks from. I don't think Vea is a good fit for the aggressive, upfield style we play along the Dline. If the Bucs were a 2-gapping team defensively than sure, Vea has more value there.

I'd rather roll the dice and hope either Taven Bryan or Mo Hurst is there at 38. Interior DL is probably the deepest position in the entire draft class as well.


Bro Ngata was the run clogger of that defense, and he was able to create Havoc on the QB. I would take that next to McCoy for the next 4 years. It would be good to know the pressure and run stop was coming from the middle.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:12 am

This is not a "Doomsday" scenario for me. Denzel Ward is currently #2 on my Bucs big board, behind Chubb.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:55 am

This spread of votes reaffirms wanting to trade down in this scenario. Atleast one of these 4 top vote getters would very likely still be there at 12/13.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Super K » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:00 am

DreadNaught wrote:This spread of votes reaffirms wanting to trade down in this scenario. Atleast one of these 4 top vote getters would very likely still be there at 12/13.


Screw that....

That's how you/we end up with Mark Barron and/or VH3...

Because we say "somebody we "like" will be there if we drop back"...

Stay at 7 and make the hard decision, don't have it made for you...
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Deuce » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:27 am

Minkah all day. If he works out at corner, we got a steal. If he's a safety, then he should be a good one.

Does Ward's size not bother anyone else? I mean, if we draft a corner this high he should be able to cover Julio, Funchess and Michael Thomas. Every list of weaknesses includes things like this:

Frame is somewhat slight and he feels small in coverage at times
Lacks play strength to jam and disrupt

Appears to avoid route contact so he doesn't upset coverage balance
Physical receivers can body him around at the top of the route
Needs to turn and find football sooner with back to the ball
Always around the throw, but lack of size and length shows up with "just misses" in pass defense
Several pass breakups came on throws with poor placement
Coverage benefitted from deep, talented rush unit up front
Has issues disengaging from big blocking receivers
Big backs drag him for a ride in run support


Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Bucs N Beers » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:35 am

Deuce wrote:
Does Ward's size not bother anyone else?

Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.


I go back and forth on his size. Size isn’t everything, but Julio catching jump balls in the end zone against VH3 is something he will never be able to defend. Ever. If we weren’t recently burned on a small corner, I’d be more likely to forgive Wards size. And yes, that’s small minded thinking.

With Minkah, he could maybe be the better corners in the draft. But I doubt he gets played there in The NFL. If Minkah is a safety, I’d prefer Derwin in this scenario.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Konatown » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:40 am

I’d go with Derwin James. To me he has the most upside of any player left on the board and would pair nicely with Justin Evans.

After him I’d go Ward due to our need for CB, but I don’t love the pick.

Anyone else I’m disappointed.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:43 am

Bucs N Beers wrote:
Deuce wrote:
Does Ward's size not bother anyone else?

Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.




With Minkah, he could maybe be the better corners in the draft. But I doubt he gets played there in The NFL. If Minkah is a safety, I’d prefer Derwin in this scenario.


I don't get this. Minkah is almost as good of a tackler that Derwin is but exponentially better in coverage. Minkah can cover in the nickel, blitz, play in the box, play in a single high. Derwin, from his tape at FSU, is going to be a pure SS who will struggle in coverage. In our defense where both safeties are asked to play both roles, and the evolving NFL...I don't get anyone liking Derwin over Minkah . Just my opinion.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:04 am

6'0 191
5'10 199
6'0 197
5'11 191
6'0 201
5'11 191
5'11 176
5'11 192
5'10 188
5'10 190

Nine of those numbers represent nine of probably the twenty best corners in the NFL today. The other one is Denzel Ward.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:26 am

Deuce wrote:Minkah all day. If he works out at corner, we got a steal. If he's a safety, then he should be a good one.

Does Ward's size not bother anyone else? I mean, if we draft a corner this high he should be able to cover Julio, Funchess and Michael Thomas. Every list of weaknesses includes things like this:

Frame is somewhat slight and he feels small in coverage at times
Lacks play strength to jam and disrupt

Appears to avoid route contact so he doesn't upset coverage balance
Physical receivers can body him around at the top of the route
Needs to turn and find football sooner with back to the ball
Always around the throw, but lack of size and length shows up with "just misses" in pass defense
Several pass breakups came on throws with poor placement
Coverage benefitted from deep, talented rush unit up front
Has issues disengaging from big blocking receivers
Big backs drag him for a ride in run support


Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.


Ward is an 1/8th" under 5'11" and has a longer than average wingspan that makes up for the magical 1" that has people concerned about his height. He doesn't play like a short CB on tape.

His frame is slight, but so are alot of quick twitch CBs like him. Ward is also a willing tackler and does play physical despite his slight frame. There are various plays of him dropping his shoulder on a ball carrier. CBs need to be able to hold outside leverage vs the run and Ward can do that. You draft then and pay them b/c of their ability to cover and Ward has the most talent and upside in this draft as a cover CB.

The 'Can he out jump Julio on fade route' is an unrealistic expectation. It's an uncoverable play vs WRs like that Julio if the throw and timing are right. Just like it is w/ Mike Evans. Unless you're Patrick Peterson all any 6' CB can hope for in that situation is bad throw or rip it out of the WRs hands before he hits the ground or is able to tuck it away.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby terrytate » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:27 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:


With Minkah, he could maybe be the better corners in the draft. But I doubt he gets played there in The NFL. If Minkah is a safety, I’d prefer Derwin in this scenario.


I don't get this. Minkah is almost as good of a tackler that Derwin is but exponentially better in coverage. Minkah can cover in the nickel, blitz, play in the box, play in a single high. Derwin, from his tape at FSU, is going to be a pure SS who will struggle in coverage. In our defense where both safeties are asked to play both roles, and the evolving NFL...I don't get anyone liking Derwin over Minkah . Just my opinion.



Because Minkah isn't as good of a tackler as Derwin. James played 26 college games vs 42 for Minkah, yet James leads in every career stat except picks. More sacks, TFL, total tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries. At the same time, James is better in coverage than is advertised. He's just as fast and rangy as Fitz, and there is plenty of tape of James being lined up at outside corner against #1 WR's and holding up.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby MJW » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:30 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Deuce wrote:Minkah all day. If he works out at corner, we got a steal. If he's a safety, then he should be a good one.

Does Ward's size not bother anyone else? I mean, if we draft a corner this high he should be able to cover Julio, Funchess and Michael Thomas. Every list of weaknesses includes things like this:

Frame is somewhat slight and he feels small in coverage at times
Lacks play strength to jam and disrupt

Appears to avoid route contact so he doesn't upset coverage balance
Physical receivers can body him around at the top of the route
Needs to turn and find football sooner with back to the ball
Always around the throw, but lack of size and length shows up with "just misses" in pass defense
Several pass breakups came on throws with poor placement
Coverage benefitted from deep, talented rush unit up front
Has issues disengaging from big blocking receivers
Big backs drag him for a ride in run support


Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.


Ward is an 1/8th" under 5'11" and has a longer than average wingspan that makes up for the magical 1" that has people concerned about his height. He doesn't play like a short CB on tape.

His frame is slight, but so are alot of quick twitch CBs like him. Ward is also a willing tackler and does play physical despite his slight frame. There are various plays of him dropping his shoulder on a ball carrier. CBs need to be able to hold outside leverage vs the run and Ward can do that. You draft then and pay them b/c of their ability to cover and Ward has the most talent and upside in this draft as a cover CB.

The 'Can he out jump Julio on fade route' is an unrealistic expectation. It's an uncoverable play vs WRs like that Julio if the throw and timing are right. Just like it is w/ Mike Evans. Unless you're Patrick Peterson all any 6' CB can hope for in that situation is bad throw or rip it out of the WRs hands before he hits the ground or is able to tuck it away.


Great post.

Everybody wants those 6'1-6'2 corners who look great running down the field. That doesn't mean a 5'11 corner can't absolutely shut down a wideout. Plenty of them do.

And great point on the Julio fade. Coming up with particular plays and assuming perfect passes and then saying, "But he'll struggle with that!" is like saying a smaller running back will struggle with getting gang tackled in the backfield.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Cheb » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:30 am

Deuce wrote:Minkah all day. If he works out at corner, we got a steal. If he's a safety, then he should be a good one.

Does Ward's size not bother anyone else? I mean, if we draft a corner this high he should be able to cover Julio, Funchess and Michael Thomas. Every list of weaknesses includes things like this:

Minkah's combination of size and speed are what puts him above Ward.


Ward's size doesn't bother me, because beating big receivers is ultimately the same as beating small ones. The coverage has to be sticky enough so that the defender is in position to contest the catch when the ball arrives. Some corners do this by beating up their receiver at the line of scrimmage to disrupt the route, like Trumaine Johnson. Some do it by reading and reacting very fast, like Brent Grimes. Some do this by understanding the game and route combinations so well that they can bait the quarterback into making bad decisions by intentional "messing up" their assignments, like Richard Sherman. Some do this by just being the most technically sound dude on the field in combination with a few sneaky tricks, like peak Darrelle Revis. And a very rare few are just good at everything and it's not really fair, like Patrick Peterson. However you stay close, the end result is the same.

As far as Julio Jones, he doesn't make his bread with fade routes and jump balls. He wins by working himself open. When he blew us up for 253 yards, none of his catches were 50/50 jump balls. They were well placed and accurate passes to more often than not a wide open man. To refresh your memory, and mine too:



Ward doesn't need to be able to outphysical Julio Jones at the line of scrimmage. There are maybe two dudes in the NFL who can do that snap-to-snap, the aforementioned Trumaine Johnson and future Hall of Famer Patrick Peterson. That's an unrealistic expectation for anyone to have of a corner, however talented that corner might be. Denzel Ward needs to be able to stay in his receiver's hip pocket and contest throws. He does that very well. He's probably got the stickiest coverage in the draft, while also being commendably physical in run support. Could he be more physical in coverage, probably, but he isn't so passive that it makes me not want to draft him. He has elite athleticism that shows up on film. He can be a CB1 in this league.

Minkah is good, but like others have said, he doesn't flip his hips or open his hips that great in pass coverage. That's one reason why he often loses routes early when he lines up as a corner. His hips are slower than a typical corner's, which obviously isn't ideal as a corner prospect. Thankfully his athletic gifts allow him to recover on routes more often than not, and he wins at the catch. This otherworldly ability to recover is one of the reasons I think Minkah could be a dynamite safety.

I'm going to post two videos. The first is of Minkah vs Georgia in the National Chamption, the second of Ward vs Oklahoma. I just want you to watch their hips, specifically how fast they open and flip them.





See the difference? That's an important distinction between the two, far more important than size imo.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Deuce » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:38 am

MJW wrote:6'0 191
5'10 199
6'0 197
5'11 191
6'0 201
5'11 191
5'11 176
5'11 192
5'10 188
5'10 190

Nine of those numbers represent nine of probably the twenty best corners in the NFL today. The other one is Denzel Ward.


Not trying to prod here but I am trying to get to the bottom of this. Why did you post "nine of probably the twenty best corners"? Why nine? Did you pick the nine smallest? And why no names?

And I'm not just going by numbers. It's that every scouting report seems to harp on Ward's size. Seven of Ward's weaknesses were size-related on his NFL.com scouting report.

I picked the next highest-rated "small" CB, Mike Hughes from UCF. Here are his weaknesses:

Has played just two years of college football with just one season as a starter
Not as natural with mirror and match footwork as he will need to be on next level
Lacks height and gets high-pointed by capable wideouts with size
Plays too tall in his backpedal and from off coverage which slows transitions on the throw
Allows physical receivers to knock him off the top of the route
Needs more practice and game experience for improved pattern recognition
Coverage balance is hit-or-miss
Has room for improvement as a tackler

Two things refer to his size. I see a lot of things with Ward that turn me off that aren't plain height and weight numbers. Things like "small frame", "slight", and "avoiding contact". I see some people saying "his size didn't hurt him in college" but how often was he lining up against 6'3+ receivers?

Give me an honest answer here. Not even 2018, let's say 2019. We're facing the Carolina Panthers and need someone to cover Devin Funchess. How comfortable are you with Ward shadowing him? (I didn't pick Julio because that's just unfair)
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby Deuce » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 am

Cheb wrote:Ward doesn't need to be able to outphysical Julio Jones at the line of scrimmage. There are maybe two dudes in the NFL who can do that snap-to-snap, the aforementioned Trumaine Johnson and future Hall of Famer Patrick Peterson. That's an unrealistic expectation for anyone to have of a corner, however talented that corner might be. Denzel Ward needs to be able to stay in his receiver's hip pocket and contest throws. He does that very well. He's probably got the stickiest coverage in the draft, while also being commendably physical in run support. Could he be more physical in coverage, probably, but he isn't so passive that it makes me not want to draft him. He has elite athleticism that shows up on film. He can be a CB1 in this league.

Minkah is good, but like others have said, he doesn't flip his hips or open his hips that great in pass coverage. That's one reason why he often loses routes early when he lines up as a corner. His hips are slower than a typical corner's, which obviously isn't ideal as a corner prospect. Thankfully his athletic gifts allow him to recover on routes more often than not, and he wins at the catch. This otherworldly ability to recover is one of the reasons I think Minkah could be a dynamite safety.


Thanks for this post. Everyone else seems to only be looking at his height and weight, weirdly enough in an attempt to prove that he's not too small. But the thing that concerns me more is his physicality. I'm not sure that video eased my concerns but I'll look into it some more. I just don't like the idea of drafting a pure outside corner at 7 overall and then shying away from matching him up against other teams' #1 receivers.

For now, I still like the idea of drafting Minkah as a CB/S hybrid more.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:42 am

Deuce wrote:
Cheb wrote:Ward doesn't need to be able to outphysical Julio Jones at the line of scrimmage. There are maybe two dudes in the NFL who can do that snap-to-snap, the aforementioned Trumaine Johnson and future Hall of Famer Patrick Peterson. That's an unrealistic expectation for anyone to have of a corner, however talented that corner might be. Denzel Ward needs to be able to stay in his receiver's hip pocket and contest throws. He does that very well. He's probably got the stickiest coverage in the draft, while also being commendably physical in run support. Could he be more physical in coverage, probably, but he isn't so passive that it makes me not want to draft him. He has elite athleticism that shows up on film. He can be a CB1 in this league.

Minkah is good, but like others have said, he doesn't flip his hips or open his hips that great in pass coverage. That's one reason why he often loses routes early when he lines up as a corner. His hips are slower than a typical corner's, which obviously isn't ideal as a corner prospect. Thankfully his athletic gifts allow him to recover on routes more often than not, and he wins at the catch. This otherworldly ability to recover is one of the reasons I think Minkah could be a dynamite safety.


Thanks for this post. Everyone else seems to only be looking at his height and weight, weirdly enough in an attempt to prove that he's not too small. But the thing that concerns me more is his physicality. I'm not sure that video eased my concerns but I'll look into it some more. I just don't like the idea of drafting a pure outside corner at 7 overall and then shying away from matching him up against other teams' #1 receivers.

For now, I still like the idea of drafting Minkah as a CB/S hybrid more.


We're talking about Ward's size b/c you brought it up.

Ward's size and athleticism compares very similar to Saints DROY Marshon Lattimore. Ward is one inch shorter but is faster, quicker, and a better leaper. Which is impressive considering Marshon tested extremely well. Both guys are very fluid and hyper athletic CBs capable of mirroring/sticking to WRs. Imo that is what your drafting in Ward, a guy that will always be near the ball that can make plays. The Bucs defense severly lacks that type of play-maker opposite Grimes. You put a play-maker like Ward next to Evans and Grimes in the secondary with a hopefully decent pass rush and we might be able to play some good pass defense this year.

Imo Ward does play physical. He's no Richard Sherman, but he's also not that type of CB. Ward is a guy that will excel in man coverage. He'll stay in the hip pocket of a WR just like Lattimore did to Evans twice last season.

I just like Ward's traits as a CB1. All these guys are a projection, but Ward can play right away and if he develops the way we'd hope any of these guys do than his value as a lockdown CB1 is just so much more valuable that anything a Safety would provide. Their all dynamic players so I won't be disapointed with any of them. But I'm sketchy about our current and near future outlook at CB and it's tough to play good defense with bad CBs these days.
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:27 am

I want to know why Josh Jackson will be a bust
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Re: Bucs Doomsday Scenario

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:21 pm

terrytate wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
I don't get this. Minkah is almost as good of a tackler that Derwin is but exponentially better in coverage. Minkah can cover in the nickel, blitz, play in the box, play in a single high. Derwin, from his tape at FSU, is going to be a pure SS who will struggle in coverage. In our defense where both safeties are asked to play both roles, and the evolving NFL...I don't get anyone liking Derwin over Minkah . Just my opinion.



Because Minkah isn't as good of a tackler as Derwin. James played 26 college games vs 42 for Minkah, yet James leads in every career stat except picks. More sacks, TFL, total tackles, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries. At the same time, James is better in coverage than is advertised. He's just as fast and rangy as Fitz, and there is plenty of tape of James being lined up at outside corner against #1 WR's and holding up.


Derwin James loafs around the field on passing downs too often. Maybe he has the ability to cover, but too often on tape last year he takes himself out of the play by either guessing wrong or simply lack of effort, or when he's there he was soo stiff that he may have been better off out of the play. FSU fans say he wasn't the same last year, but I watched a lot of his film and was super unimpressed by him in coverage. James isn't near as good as Fitz in coverage and if we are talking about hips, he doesn't appear to have the hips to ever be what even Fitz is now. Fitz doesn't hit as hard as James, but he's not a bad or even average tackler by any measure. Fitz is a much safer and better prospect for us or anyone than James.

Again, I only watched last year, but he just reminded me of Taylor Mays as this huge LB/Safety who hits hard, but plodded around the field. There were too many tackles that James just waited for the play to come to him instead of hustling to stop it earlier.

Maybe it's an effort thing...maybe he was saving himself, but I don't like his tape and from everything I've read this stuff is a pretty common opinion.
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