Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby beardmcdoug » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:49 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
You're probably correct. But in beardmcdoug scenario of Allen-Barkley-Mayfield-Chubb-Fitzpatrick-Nelson as the top six selections, there would be two great available quarterbacks, and us as the first real trade-down partner since the premier non-QBs would be gone and we don't need one of the top QBs, which is why he said that the Bills would trade up, and why I posited that they would do so for quarterbacking talent.

Exactly. Which is what started this line of the discussion to begin with. I was responding to bmd's premise. All the other stuff changes his premise which, obviously, would change my premise.


Yeah I agree it might be the best choice too... I wouldn’t be happy with the situation and I wasn’t just throwing out a worst-case scenario either, it’s one that I could easily see happening;

1) Allen is the prospect with the high ceiling - browns have him sit behind Tyrod for a year or so
2) If Shurmur decides he can work with Webb in the future, and they want to pry the Eli window open for the next 1-2 years, then they draft Barkley
3) Jets and Mayfield are ideal personality fits IMO
4) Chubb across from Garrett would be devastating
5) Broncos just gave Keenum $18 mil a year - he’s starting. Broncos lost Talib. Fitzpatrick would be a major versatile presence and a great fix for that D
6) Colts - Nelson, lost out on Jensen, invest in Luck’s health finally
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:07 pm

I'm going to say it goes:

1. Cleveland - Darold
2. NYG - Rosen
3. NYJ - Allen
4. Denver - Mayfield
5. Cleveland - Ward
6. Indy - Chubb

If Mayfield goes at 3, I think Broncos stay at 5 and take Chubb and maybe Bills go to 4 to get Allen.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:45 pm

1. Browns- Allen
2. Bills- Darnold
3. Jets- Mayfield
4. Broncos- Rosen
5. Browns- R. Smith
6. Dolphins or Cardinals- Jackson
7. Bucs- Take your pick


I'm thinking into the future here. I don't foresee the draft staying the exact same way for the next 6 weeks.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:41 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:1. Browns- Allen
2. Bills- Darnold
3. Jets- Mayfield
4. Broncos- Rosen
5. Browns- R. Smith
6. Dolphins or Cardinals- Jackson
7. Bucs- Take your pick


I'm thinking into the future here. I don't foresee the draft staying the exact same way for the next 6 weeks.


I can see that. But I just don't think the Giants want to trade down or else they would have taken the Jets offer. So if they stay at 2 I think it's for a QB.

The Broncos moving up a spot is something I see as likely also.

Browns - Allen
Giants - Darnold
Jets - Rosen
Broncos - Mayfield
Browns - Barkley
Colts - Nelson
Bucs - Chubb

I could see the Colts trading down again.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Giants are either taking a QB or holding out for a bigger trade down. They didn’t pass up three second rounders to stay where they are and draft a running back or a guard. Or any non-QB player.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:55 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:1. Browns- Allen
2. Bills- Darnold
3. Jets- Mayfield
4. Broncos- Rosen
5. Browns- R. Smith
6. Dolphins or Cardinals- Jackson
7. Bucs- Take your pick


I'm thinking into the future here. I don't foresee the draft staying the exact same way for the next 6 weeks.


I can see that. But I just don't think the Giants want to trade down or else they would have taken the Jets offer. So if they stay at 2 I think it's for a QB.

The Broncos moving up a spot is something I see as likely also.

Browns - Allen
Giants - Darnold
Jets - Rosen
Broncos - Mayfield
Browns - Barkley
Colts - Nelson
Bucs - Chubb

I could see the Colts trading down again.


Are we sure the Jets even called the Giants? I can't say I believe they did. What I will say is I don't care how great of a guard Quentin Nelson is. No chance in hell is he going ahead of a top pass rusher in this draft especially when the team taking him needs an Edge rusher as badly as the Colts do.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Doctor » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Just because you're the best pass rusher off your class doesn't mean you're elite. Chubbs is easily second fiddle in any other draft. Heck he's barely the top consensus in his own.

One has to think the Giants are going QB. For one so little QB talk from them. If you really weren't going QB you think they'd be talking QB all day to snag a Colts like trade or at least scare the Browns to drafting a QB over Barkley if that's who you are targeting. Speaking of Colts, surely the Jets offered the same trade to the Browns and Giants first but were rejected. And Jets made the trade knowing the team they hopped over (the broncos) would be very unlikely to hop them back, meaning Browns and Giants staying put for QBs.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Doctor » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:42 pm

Unless that's exactly what the Giants front office wants us to think...
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:54 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I can see that. But I just don't think the Giants want to trade down or else they would have taken the Jets offer. So if they stay at 2 I think it's for a QB.

The Broncos moving up a spot is something I see as likely also.

Browns - Allen
Giants - Darnold
Jets - Rosen
Broncos - Mayfield
Browns - Barkley
Colts - Nelson
Bucs - Chubb

I could see the Colts trading down again.


Are we sure the Jets even called the Giants? I can't say I believe they did. What I will say is I don't care how great of a guard Quentin Nelson is. No chance in hell is he going ahead of a top pass rusher in this draft especially when the team taking him needs an Edge rusher as badly as the Colts do.


Rapsheet was talking on NFLN about the Jets contacting both the Browns and Giants also. Giants could've traded down for that price if they wanted.

Nelson is a better Guard prospect than Chubb is as an EDGE. But I agree Chubb could go before Nelson and it wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:01 pm

Of course they contacted the teams above pick three. They are not going to settle on the third player if they can get the first or second player. It would be ridiculous to suggest that they did not contact those teams as well.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby terrytate » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Doctor wrote:Just because you're the best pass rusher off your class doesn't mean you're elite. Chubbs is easily second fiddle in any other draft. Heck he's barely the top consensus in his own.

One has to think the Giants are going QB. For one so little QB talk from them. If you really weren't going QB you think they'd be talking QB all day to snag a Colts like trade or at least scare the Browns to drafting a QB over Barkley if that's who you are targeting. Speaking of Colts, surely the Jets offered the same trade to the Browns and Giants first but were rejected. And Jets made the trade knowing the team they hopped over (the broncos) would be very unlikely to hop them back, meaning Browns and Giants staying put for QBs.



Chubb will improve their defense of course. Nelson will not only improve the performance of their offense but he will also help prevent Luck from getting hurt again, and the Colts are going to live or die by Luck. If I were the Colts, I'd take Nelson and then the best tackle I could find. Get as much premium beef between Luck and the folks who want to kill him as you can.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Doctor » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:13 pm

At the end I'm pretty sure we're either getting one of the three elites in the draft or worse case Chubbs. Either way I'm happy.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:13 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Are we sure the Jets even called the Giants? I can't say I believe they did. What I will say is I don't care how great of a guard Quentin Nelson is. No chance in hell is he going ahead of a top pass rusher in this draft especially when the team taking him needs an Edge rusher as badly as the Colts do.


Rapsheet was talking on NFLN about the Jets contacting both the Browns and Giants also. Giants could've traded down for that price if they wanted.

Nelson is a better Guard prospect than Chubb is as an EDGE. But I agree Chubb could go before Nelson and it wouldn't surprise me.


Yes he is a better guard prospect than Chubb is a DE. But again the best guard in the draft history isn’t as vital as a top edge rusher. Not even close. LT, maybe. I’d still opt for the best edge rusher in the class even if he’s a B+, 10-11 sack type.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:20 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Rapsheet was talking on NFLN about the Jets contacting both the Browns and Giants also. Giants could've traded down for that price if they wanted.

Nelson is a better Guard prospect than Chubb is as an EDGE. But I agree Chubb could go before Nelson and it wouldn't surprise me.


Yes he is a better guard prospect than Chubb is a DE. But again the best guard in the draft history isn’t as vital as a top edge rusher. Not even close. LT, maybe. I’d still opt for the best edge rusher in the class even if he’s a B+, 10-11 sack type.


Yeah I think most people feel that way which is why most have Chubb coming off the board before Nelson. I just think that IF the Colts stay at 6 that protecting Luck could be priority #1. Maybe wishful thinking tho...
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:49 pm

I think the best chance the Bucs have at getting Chubb is a Browns-Broncos swap of 4 and 5 and then trade from 7 to 5 with the Browns. I guess that works if the Browns trade out with someone else at 4 and Broncos want to move back from 5. I don't think it's very likely that Chubb is there at 7 without the Colts moving out of 6. I'd rather trade back than trade up, of course.

Unfortunately, it seems like the Bucs will have Barkley staring them in the face at pick 7.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:54 pm

Naismith wrote:I think the best chance the Bucs have at getting Chubb is a Browns-Broncos swap of 4 and 5 and then trade from 7 to 5 with the Browns. I guess that works if the Browns trade out with someone else at 4 and Broncos want to move back from 5. I don't think it's very likely that Chubb is there at 7 without the Colts moving out of 6. I'd rather trade back than trade up, of course.

Unfortunately, it seems like the Bucs will have Barkley staring them in the face at pick 7.

I think there's a decent enough chance the Colts could pass on Chubb. They need help pretty much everywhere, and keeping Luck healthy is their #1 priority. I could definitely see them Taking Nelson over Chubb. Possibly even Edmunds.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:05 pm

Colts transitioning to a 4-3 in a draft deep with interior offensive linemen. I can't imagine that's correct. There's always a chance but it has to be minuscule.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Naismith wrote:Colts transitioning to a 4-3 in a draft deep with interior offensive linemen. I can't imagine that's correct. There's always a chance but it has to be minuscule.

On a pure grade, Nelson and even Edmunds grade higher than Chubb. Nelson would not only fill a massive need for them, he'd be BPA at 6.

I don't want to give Jason Licht too much credit, but it would be quite brilliant if him stealing Jensen from the Colts forces them to take Nelson and allow Chubb to fall into our laps...
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Naismith » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Players aren't definitively graded higher than other players since each team has different grades on them. There's no way to say that the Colts follow some universal grading of players and have them ranked Nelson-Edmunds-Chubb. They could have them ranked in any order. Regardless, if they're close, they're going with the DE.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:34 pm

Naismith wrote:Players aren't definitively graded higher than other players since each team has different grades on them. There's no way to say that the Colts follow some universal grading of players and have them ranked Nelson-Edmunds-Chubb. They could have them ranked in any order. Regardless, if they're close, they're going with the DE.

Nelson is pretty much universally regarded as the best prospect in this draft along with Barkley. The only knock on him is that he's a guard. But if a team is desperate for a guard like the Colts are, I think they take him over Chubb. Who knows. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:19 pm

The need for a DE or the importance of the position of OG is nowhere near enough to make up for the gap between Nelson and Chubbs. Yes, he's that good. Yes, it's that wide.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:26 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Naismith wrote:Players aren't definitively graded higher than other players since each team has different grades on them. There's no way to say that the Colts follow some universal grading of players and have them ranked Nelson-Edmunds-Chubb. They could have them ranked in any order. Regardless, if they're close, they're going with the DE.

Nelson is pretty much universally regarded as the best prospect in this draft along with Barkley. The only knock on him is that he's a guard. But if a team is desperate for a guard like the Colts are, I think they take him over Chubb. Who knows. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking.


He regarded as such by draftniks, analysts, experts and fans. Not NFL teams, scouts and GMs.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:28 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Nelson is pretty much universally regarded as the best prospect in this draft along with Barkley. The only knock on him is that he's a guard. But if a team is desperate for a guard like the Colts are, I think they take him over Chubb. Who knows. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking.


He regarded as such by draftniks, analysts, experts and fans. Not NFL teams, scouts and GMs.


There are former NFL scouts and GMs that have Nelson in their top 2. You can ignore and/or dismiss their opinions if you want, but these guys worked for NFL teams and graded prospects for years so their opinion does count.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:08 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He regarded as such by draftniks, analysts, experts and fans. Not NFL teams, scouts and GMs.


There are former NFL scouts and GMs that have Nelson in their top 2. You can ignore and/or dismiss their opinions if you want, but these guys worked for NFL teams and graded prospects for years so their opinion does count.


In regard to what teams exactly does their opinion count? No need for a lengthy, deflecting straw man answer either. If you don't have an answer just say so and move on.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:16 pm

Unless you are about to charm us with all your inside connections with team FO's, the closest you can get to how current NFL team, scouts, and GMs are viewing these prospects is by hearing how other former scouts, GMs, and team personnel view these prospects. To simply dismiss it why inserting your own BS insight is, well, just that...
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Doctor wrote:Unless you are about to charm us with all your inside connections with team FO's, the closest you can get to how current NFL team, scouts, and GMs are viewing these prospects is by hearing how other former scouts, GMs, and team personnel view these prospects. To simply dismiss it why inserting your own BS insight is, well, just that...


No need for a lengthy, deflecting straw man answer either. If you don't have an answer just say so and move on.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:35 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
There are former NFL scouts and GMs that have Nelson in their top 2. You can ignore and/or dismiss their opinions if you want, but these guys worked for NFL teams and graded prospects for years so their opinion does count.


In regard to what teams exactly does their opinion count? No need for a lengthy, deflecting straw man answer either. If you don't have an answer just say so and move on.


Speaking of a strawman, It was never stated that outside opinions influence what happens inside NFL draft rooms. If that was your original point than I agree with that.

However I was responding to your post that Nelson is not regarded as top 2 prospect in this class by NFL teams and that only people outside of the NFL regard him that high and my point is that since a decent portion of people have Nelson ranked that high there is LIKELY a correlation to what is happening inside of NFL draft rooms.

If 25% (for the sake of argument) of former GMs/Scouts that were polled had Nelson in their top 2 players wouldn't you consider it to be an anomaly for ZERO NFL teams to have him in their own top 2? Are you saying their is that much of a disconnect between former GMs/scouts and currently employed ones? You don't think these guys share information (and disinformation for sure) on players with their former scouting colleagues?
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:41 pm

My apologies then. I read it again and it could be easily implied that I meant NFL teams don't regard him as top 2. My point was that no one knows how NFL teams view him. RBF seems to have this idea that teams are letting information about their board public knowledge when we all know that isn't the case.
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Re: Jets trade with Indy for the 3rd pick in the draft

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:34 pm

Bootz getting rekt as usual...
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