Fitz or Nelson?

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Fitz or Nelson

Poll ended at Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Fitz
8
33%
Nelson
16
67%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:15 am

I like where we are in his draft. At least one of Chubb, Barkley, Fitz or Nelson will be there. Whoever it is, you take. Simple.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:15 am

Super K wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
only deal that could possibly happen is getting buffalo's 2 first rd pics for our #7 because they do need a qb . but i think they sign a vet Qb instead.


While possible, it's not very probable...


We aren't the "jump to pick" for a QB that falls out of the top 5..

Why wouldn't teams look to trade up, and give up less, to 8,9 or 10?

Hell, even 11 and 12 are murky...


I agree that we aren't the jump to point....Its much sooner than us. I agree with MJW that the QBs in this draft are better than last years when all 3 QBs were traded up for. As such teams will look to move up sooner. I look at New York,Indy & Cleveland at 2, 3 & 4 as the jump to points for QBs. Teams like Washington, Arizona, Buffalo armed with 2 1st round picks. Hell the Jets and Broncos might try to jocky for position over 1 another. 7 is too late IMO.

As such that'll leave other great prospects available. The main 4 everyone is stuck like glue on right now, at least 3 will be there because as we've seen with the draft it doesn't pan out the way you guys think.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:31 am

real bucs fan wrote:I like where we are in his draft. At least one of Chubb, Barkley, Fitz or Nelson will be there. Whoever it is, you take. Simple.





We announce a trade that sends Barkley to the Bears for a 2019 2nd round pick. Then we sell Nelson to the 49ers for their 74th pick and pick Chubb with the ninth pick.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Super K » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:35 am

mdb1958 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I like where we are in his draft. At least one of Chubb, Barkley, Fitz or Nelson will be there. Whoever it is, you take. Simple.





We announce a trade that sends Barkley to the Bears for a 2019 2nd round pick. Then we sell Nelson to the 49ers for their 74th pick and pick Chubb with the ninth pick.


And the Bears, who have Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen already in their backfield, covet Barkley because?
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:38 am

Super K wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:



We announce a trade that sends Barkley to the Bears for a 2019 2nd round pick. Then we sell Nelson to the 49ers for their 74th pick and pick Chubb with the ninth pick.


And the Bears, who have Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen already in their backfield, covet Barkley because?


You mean the same Jordan that's averaging about 1200 yards a season at a 4.6 yards per carry clip? Yea, mdb. Why would they covet Barkley? Don't hide, mdb.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:39 am

Browns - QB
Giants - QB
Colts - Connor Williams
Browns - Minky
Denver - QB
Jets - QB
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:41 am

OK Nelson to the Bears and Barkley to the 49ers.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:43 am

mdb1958 wrote:OK Nelson to the Bears and Barkley to the 49ers.


That actually makes more sense. Won't happen but I'm glad you didn't pull a MJW or RBF and double down on a ridiculous point. Good job. You've earned that drink.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:44 am

Alpha wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:B A R K L E Y !


In which alternative universe, do you believe that Barkley is going to be around at 7?

I LOVE the craziness.

Chubb, Barkley...these guys aren't around at 7. They are arguably the 2 best offensive/defensive players in this draft. And as much as I'd like to believe that the first 5 picks are gonna be QB's...they likely won't be.

You're likely looking at 2 QB's going in the first 7. That leaves FIVE "other" players. Hell...for shits and giggles, make it 3 QB's in the top 7 and 4 "others".

Who are the 4 best "other" prospects?

Barkely
Chubb
Nelson
Fitzpatrick

Sound about right? This is, at this point, pretty much the concensus. Sure...some craziness could happen with a fast riser...but y'all need to get a hold of yourselves.

And just stop with the "trade down" scenarios. This isn't the movie "Draft Day". Don't be a dumb-ass.

I was picking on rbf
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Super K » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:44 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:
While possible, it's not very probable...


We aren't the "jump to pick" for a QB that falls out of the top 5..

Why wouldn't teams look to trade up, and give up less, to 8,9 or 10?

Hell, even 11 and 12 are murky...


I agree that we aren't the jump to point....Its much sooner than us. I agree with MJW that the QBs in this draft are better than last years when all 3 QBs were traded up for. As such teams will look to move up sooner. I look at New York,Indy & Cleveland at 2, 3 & 4 as the jump to points for QBs. Teams like Washington, Arizona, Buffalo armed with 2 1st round picks. Hell the Jets and Broncos might try to jocky for position over 1 another. 7 is too late IMO.

As such that'll leave other great prospects available. The main 4 everyone is stuck like glue on right now, at least 3 will be there because as we've seen with the draft it doesn't pan out the way you guys think.


You make a good point...

I look at it like this:

A team needs to give us (X) to get to 7...

Why would they not want to give up (X+2) and get higher ensuring they get their guy, or their choice? This is a Bootz example...

Or

Why would they not want to give up (X-2) and deal with Chi, SF etc when none of those teams are a threat to take their guy?

Just how I look at it..thinking we are GREAT trade down position is a bit optimistic imo...

I mean, every damn year someone on this forum champions how we are in a perfect situation to get a sweet deal/king's ransom to trade back..

Every damn year, nothing happens...

*outside the stupid ass Barron and VH3 drafts which really don't count because we got chump change to move back a few spots and did jack **** with said change..
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Super K » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:46 am

mdb1958 wrote:OK Nelson to the Bears and Barkley to the 49ers.


Perfect response..the simplicity of it made me chuckle pretty good...

And as Bootz said, it makes sense too!

High 5..
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:53 am

Anybody above us has their choice of quarterbacks or the primes. By trading down they risk losing both, by having teams trade up after they traded down.

If its either the Bears or 49ers they will have to pay more to jump up there. We can charge less because were only going down one spot.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:55 am

Its desire versus I'm alright with who's left.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:55 am

Super K wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I agree that we aren't the jump to point....Its much sooner than us. I agree with MJW that the QBs in this draft are better than last years when all 3 QBs were traded up for. As such teams will look to move up sooner. I look at New York,Indy & Cleveland at 2, 3 & 4 as the jump to points for QBs. Teams like Washington, Arizona, Buffalo armed with 2 1st round picks. Hell the Jets and Broncos might try to jocky for position over 1 another. 7 is too late IMO.

As such that'll leave other great prospects available. The main 4 everyone is stuck like glue on right now, at least 3 will be there because as we've seen with the draft it doesn't pan out the way you guys think.


You make a good point...

I look at it like this:

A team needs to give us (X) to get to 7...

Why would they not want to give up (X+2) and get higher ensuring they get their guy, or their choice? This is a Bootz example...

Or

Why would they not want to give up (X-2) and deal with Chi, SF etc when none of those teams are a threat to take their guy?

Just how I look at it..thinking we are GREAT trade down position is a bit optimistic imo...

I mean, every damn year someone on this forum champions how we are in a perfect situation to get a sweet deal/king's ransom to trade back..

Every damn year, nothing happens...

*outside the stupid ass Barron and VH3 drafts which really don't count because we got chump change to move back a few spots and did jack **** with said change..


I agree with this. The QB action is going to occur in front of us and maybe behind us. I think a more likely trade down scenario is a team trading up to land a falling Fitz and we view Fitz as a pure FS and aren't in love with taking a Guard at 7 either.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:07 am

Super K wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I agree that we aren't the jump to point....Its much sooner than us. I agree with MJW that the QBs in this draft are better than last years when all 3 QBs were traded up for. As such teams will look to move up sooner. I look at New York,Indy & Cleveland at 2, 3 & 4 as the jump to points for QBs. Teams like Washington, Arizona, Buffalo armed with 2 1st round picks. Hell the Jets and Broncos might try to jocky for position over 1 another. 7 is too late IMO.

As such that'll leave other great prospects available. The main 4 everyone is stuck like glue on right now, at least 3 will be there because as we've seen with the draft it doesn't pan out the way you guys think.


You make a good point...

I look at it like this:

A team needs to give us (X) to get to 7...

Why would they not want to give up (X+2) and get higher ensuring they get their guy, or their choice? This is a Bootz example...

Or

Why would they not want to give up (X-2) and deal with Chi, SF etc when none of those teams are a threat to take their guy?

Just how I look at it..thinking we are GREAT trade down position is a bit optimistic imo...

I mean, every damn year someone on this forum champions how we are in a perfect situation to get a sweet deal/king's ransom to trade back..

Every damn year, nothing happens...

*outside the stupid ass Barron and VH3 drafts which really don't count because we got chump change to move back a few spots and did jack **** with said change..


Agreed. It never fails. According to this board we're always prime trade down candidates or we won too many games and are 1 position too late to get an "elite" prospect that doesn't exist.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Buc2 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:30 am

Alpha wrote:And just stop with the "trade down" scenarios.

Why?
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Sammich » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:04 pm

I agree with MJW that we're in a good trade down spot. We're the first team you can bank on to not want one of the QBs. The teams ahead of us that might want a QB will use that as leverage and want more to trade. We are the first team that will give somebody a relatively fair deal. Sure, a team could wait until 9 or 10 or whatever in hopes of a better deal, but then there is a huge chance of them getting leapfrogged by another team.

I mean sure, we'd screw them in a trade. But we wouldn't screw them as bad as the Giants would.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Buc2 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:39 pm

Sammich wrote:I agree with MJW that we're in a good trade down spot. We're the first team you can bank on to not want one of the QBs. The teams ahead of us that might want a QB will use that as leverage and want more to trade. We are the first team that will give somebody a relatively fair deal. Sure, a team could wait until 9 or 10 or whatever in hopes of a better deal, but then there is a huge chance of them getting leapfrogged by another team.

I mean sure, we'd screw them in a trade. But we wouldn't screw them as bad as the Giants would.

Forget it. Alpha says we're dumbasses for entertaining such thoughts.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Caradoc » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:20 pm

MJW wrote:I would rather take a DE or a LT than a cornerback, even a good one. But it doesn't seem like the draft will fall that way. And as good as Nelson might be, he's still a guard.


You find guards on Day Two, or you build them up from the bottom of the roster. You don't take them at #7.


The first part is pretty much my take on this draft and FA. I'd love to see us sign a DE, draft a top 10 DE, get a good CB prospect in 2 and steal a OG in 3. Unfortunately, things aren't set up for that this year. You have to take what the circumstances give you and not try to force things.

The second part, I'm not on the same page with completely. There is a difference between "you CAN get a good guard day two" and "you WILL get a good guard day two". Maybe we'll find a Marpet in the weeds on day two, or maybe we'll find some possum feces.

This is why I'm torn on these two. Chubb is gone, mocks with Davenport to us are junk - Davenport might not even see Day One. RBF was right, it's very possible Nelson/Fitz is our choice. I'm leaning Nelson though.

Primarily because I have a higher opinion on the line already, and think that replacing Pamphile/E.Smith will go a very long way toward making that into a very good, potentially dominant unit. If we want to win, we have to get those lines in shape, and while I'd love to work on the DL, this year isn't looking like the one to do it without reaching.

Secondarily, we have to accept that Dot is going to be gone soon, and we will need to be looking at the Oline next draft. Investing now in making most of the line strong means we won't be looking at having "needs" at two holes on the OL next year. Gotta look to the future as well. (Which I think is one of Licht's weak points, he's very reactive in drafting)
Last edited by Caradoc on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Caradoc » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:38 pm

MJW wrote:Because if they don't want to, somebody else might, that's why. We just saw the Bears trade from #3 to #2 because they were scared of the Browns jumping up from #12.

Our pick really is the first "chokepoint" for the QB run. Unless all 4 go in the top 6, there will be deals to be made IF we want to make them. Not a doubt in my mind about that.



I'd really love to believe this, but if (IF) 4 QBs are going in the top 10, those QBs are almost certainly going in the top 6.

Cleveland is a mortal lock to pick a QB at #1. Giants will either pick a QB there, or trade to someone else who will. That's 2 right there. Between Indy and Cleveland, at least one trade for a QB happens - Either NYJ and DEN trade up or someone trades up to get past them. That's three in the top 4. At least one of NYJ or DEN is still sitting there looking at a QB, possibly both. Not to mention teams behind them.

The pressures on the trade scenarios will push teams into the top 6 if they want that 4th QB. They won't wait until 7, or they don't really want him. If we are on the clock with that 4th QB still there, it means nobody wants to trade up for him.

That's not to say we can't trade down, but we aren't in the catbird seat because of QBs.

Best case scenario for us is 4 QBs go top 6. Chubb almost certainly goes there as well. That means only one other (non-QB) blue chip prospect is picked before us. We either stand pat and grab an elite prospect, or trade down a few spots and still get a good pick, with extras to grab say and extra corner in the second and maybe more. ("Maybe" more, because I think negotiation is another weak point for Licht)
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:04 pm

Caradoc wrote:
Best case scenario for us is 4 QBs go top 6. Chubb almost certainly goes there as well. That means only one other (non-QB) blue chip prospect is picked before us. We either stand pat and grab an elite prospect, or trade down a few spots and still get a good pick, with extras to grab say and extra corner in the second and maybe more. ("Maybe" more, because I think negotiation is another weak point for Licht)


In a funny way, we're in a good spot. If all four quarterbacks go, we'll get no worse than the 3rd best player in the draft. If one or two of the quarterbacks are still available, we'll have tradeback options if the guys we love were taken.

That said, I 100% expect us to draft a guard, then with the next pick, the Bears to get two 1sts and a 2nd to trade back. Because Tampa.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm

MJW wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Best case scenario for us is 4 QBs go top 6. Chubb almost certainly goes there as well. That means only one other (non-QB) blue chip prospect is picked before us. We either stand pat and grab an elite prospect, or trade down a few spots and still get a good pick, with extras to grab say and extra corner in the second and maybe more. ("Maybe" more, because I think negotiation is another weak point for Licht)


In a funny way, we're in a good spot. If all four quarterbacks go, we'll get no worse than the 3rd best player in the draft. If one or two of the quarterbacks are still available, we'll have tradeback options if the guys we love were taken.

That said, I 100% expect us to draft a guard, then with the next pick, the Bears to get two 1sts and a 2nd to trade back. Because Tampa.

While "drafting a guard" sounds bad at 7, Nelson is really that good. Like he's the type of guard you tell your grandkids about. He's Larry Allen good.

If Minkah can prove he has the speed and agility to play CB, there are 4 guys in this draft I love, all playing the 4 biggest needs on this team. I think we're in a tremendous spot to get 1 of them... I think the big question is how you order them in case more than one of them are there...
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:02 am

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:
In a funny way, we're in a good spot. If all four quarterbacks go, we'll get no worse than the 3rd best player in the draft. If one or two of the quarterbacks are still available, we'll have tradeback options if the guys we love were taken.

That said, I 100% expect us to draft a guard, then with the next pick, the Bears to get two 1sts and a 2nd to trade back. Because Tampa.

While "drafting a guard" sounds bad at 7, Nelson is really that good. Like he's the type of guard you tell your grandkids about. He's Larry Allen good.

If Minkah can prove he has the speed and agility to play CB, there are 4 guys in this draft I love, all playing the 4 biggest needs on this team. I think we're in a tremendous spot to get 1 of them... I think the big question is how you order them in case more than one of them are there...


Whoa! Hold your horses there, *****. If he were that good no chance he lasts until 7. I don't care what the position is.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:10 am

Maybe he doesn't last until 7... But the guy is basically the perfect guard prospect, the only knock on him is that he's hasn't done it in the NFL yet. He could be an all-pro as a rookie, he's that good.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby MJW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:12 am

real bucs fan wrote:Maybe he doesn't last until 7... But the guy is basically the perfect guard prospect, the only knock on him is that he's hasn't done it in the NFL yet. He could be an all-pro as a rookie, he's that good.


Keep something in mind: Can't-miss prospects miss all the time.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:13 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Maybe he doesn't last until 7... But the guy is basically the perfect guard prospect, the only knock on him is that he's hasn't done it in the NFL yet. He could be an all-pro as a rookie, he's that good.


Keep something in mind: Can't-miss prospects miss all the time.

Sure. Anyone can get hurt, anyone can become a head case...

But guards to me are pretty easy to evaluate. Nelson is as can't miss as it gets.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:14 am

real bucs fan wrote:Maybe he doesn't last until 7... But the guy is basically the perfect guard prospect, the only knock on him is that he's hasn't done it in the NFL yet. He could be an all-pro as a rookie, he's that good.


Oh boy. The casual is overflowing with you. I don't know what's in that Canadian water but I'm sure it aint for me.

And he has the same chance to be the next Robert Gallery as he does being a rookie All-Pro.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:18 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Maybe he doesn't last until 7... But the guy is basically the perfect guard prospect, the only knock on him is that he's hasn't done it in the NFL yet. He could be an all-pro as a rookie, he's that good.


Oh boy. The casual is overflowing with you. I don't know what's in that Canadian water but I'm sure it aint for me.

And he has the same chance to be the next Robert Gallery as he does being a rookie All-Pro.

:birdiedoublered:
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:21 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Oh boy. The casual is overflowing with you. I don't know what's in that Canadian water but I'm sure it aint for me.

And he has the same chance to be the next Robert Gallery as he does being a rookie All-Pro.

:birdiedoublered:


Love the response. Gotta keep reminding myself that there's no difference between you and Sanka. Trolls gonna troll.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:25 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote: :birdiedoublered:


Love the response. Gotta keep reminding myself that there's no difference between you and Sanka. Trolls gonna troll.

:buttmoon:
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