Fitz or Nelson?

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Fitz or Nelson

Poll ended at Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Fitz
8
33%
Nelson
16
67%
 
Total votes : 24

Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:45 pm

Let's assume for shits and giggles that the 6 picks ahead of us consists of Chubb, Barkley, and 4 QBs. Who do you take between Fitz and Nelson?
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:47 pm

Fitz. Nothing against Nelson at all. But if you can add a versatile weapon to your defense like Minkah Fitzpatrick it makes your defense much better.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Deja Entendu » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:39 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Fitz. Nothing against Nelson at all. But if you can add a versatile weapon to your defense like Minkah Fitzpatrick it makes your defense much better.


This was a tough one because of what Nelsoncould bring to the line, but I have to agree. Fitz is such a dynamic playmaker. Defense still wins in this league, and we are sorely lacking. He'd make a world of difference.

He's obviously a ball hawk, speedy and shifty with the ball in his hands, and he can lay the wood for sure; however, I do have one concern: I'm not sure that he can actually tackle. He never really seems to wrap someone up and bring them down. I just see lots of big hits and ankle biting.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:51 am

Nelson, just to see if he would raise the bar here in Tampa for the quality of offensive line play. Still would be tempted to sell him if futures were included.
I actually voted on this one.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Alpha » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:06 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Fitz. Nothing against Nelson at all. But if you can add a versatile weapon to your defense like Minkah Fitzpatrick it makes your defense much better.


Pretty much this.

As I've documented...I LOVE Nelson but Fitz simply offers more scheme versatility and plays a more premium position. He reminds me of a poor man's Jalen Ramsey.

I can only PRAY that we have this problem, come draft day.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:26 am

Alpha wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Fitz. Nothing against Nelson at all. But if you can add a versatile weapon to your defense like Minkah Fitzpatrick it makes your defense much better.


Pretty much this.

As I've documented...I LOVE Nelson but Fitz simply offers more scheme versatility and plays a more premium position. He reminds me of a poor man's Jalen Ramsey.

I can only PRAY that we have this problem, come draft day.


If they were in the same draft Minkah would be rated higher. He's a rich man's Jalen Ramsey at this point and that's absolutely nothing against Ramsey at all. Minkah is simply that good of a prospect. He's a weapon you can lineup all over the place, he's always around the ball, he's a ball hawk and knows how to score when he has it in his hands.

I agree, this would be a great problem to have on draft day.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Pretty much this.

As I've documented...I LOVE Nelson but Fitz simply offers more scheme versatility and plays a more premium position. He reminds me of a poor man's Jalen Ramsey.

I can only PRAY that we have this problem, come draft day.


If they were in the same draft Minkah would be rated higher. He's a rich man's Jalen Ramsey at this point and that's absolutely nothing against Ramsey at all. Minkah is simply that good of a prospect. He's a weapon you can lineup all over the place, he's always around the ball, he's a ball hawk and knows how to score when he has it in his hands.

I agree, this would be a great problem to have on draft day.

Wow. That's high praise.

I never took the time to compare Fitz and Ramsey but now I'm gonna have to do that.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby beardmcdoug » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:42 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If they were in the same draft Minkah would be rated higher. He's a rich man's Jalen Ramsey at this point and that's absolutely nothing against Ramsey at all. Minkah is simply that good of a prospect. He's a weapon you can lineup all over the place, he's always around the ball, he's a ball hawk and knows how to score when he has it in his hands.

I agree, this would be a great problem to have on draft day.

Wow. That's high praise.

I never took the time to compare Fitz and Ramsey but now I'm gonna have to do that.


Thought the exact same thing... that's unbelievably high praise... and I am 100% sold on Nelson... so I just decided to go watch some Fitzpatrick tape for really the first time. The dude pops out on the film. He's huge. He's lanky. He has ball skills. He's fluid. He's physical. He's a football player. He covers kicks. And he looks like a damn RB running back out there returning Ints. Great field vision. Dude is just a flat out football player. GD what a great problem that would be... I think Nelson is going to be HoF'er but I honestly would mind ending up with Fitzpatrick one bit
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:56 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Wow. That's high praise.

I never took the time to compare Fitz and Ramsey but now I'm gonna have to do that.


Thought the exact same thing... that's unbelievably high praise... and I am 100% sold on Nelson... so I just decided to go watch some Fitzpatrick tape for really the first time. The dude pops out on the film. He's huge. He's lanky. He has ball skills. He's fluid. He's physical. He's a football player. He covers kicks. And he looks like a damn RB running back out there returning Ints. Great field vision. Dude is just a flat out football player. GD what a great problem that would be... I think Nelson is going to be HoF'er but I honestly would mind ending up with Fitzpatrick one bit


Yeah...I've been watching Alabama games lately to get more of a feel on their guys. The more I watch him the more confident I get he'll end up on the "good" list of Tide defenders in the NFL. But to be on board with taking him, it'd have to be as a corner, not a safety. I feel pretty good about that possibility. Actually, if anything after watching him more I don't know that'll be there.

I also really like Da'Ron Payne. I think he's going to be a superstar if he gets to a one-gap scheme where he can attack and make plays.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Deja Entendu » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:59 am

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
Thought the exact same thing... that's unbelievably high praise... and I am 100% sold on Nelson... so I just decided to go watch some Fitzpatrick tape for really the first time. The dude pops out on the film. He's huge. He's lanky. He has ball skills. He's fluid. He's physical. He's a football player. He covers kicks. And he looks like a damn RB running back out there returning Ints. Great field vision. Dude is just a flat out football player. GD what a great problem that would be... I think Nelson is going to be HoF'er but I honestly would mind ending up with Fitzpatrick one bit


Yeah...I've been watching Alabama games lately to get more of a feel on their guys. The more I watch him the more confident I get he'll end up on the "good" list of Tide defenders in the NFL. But to be on board with taking him, it'd have to be as a corner, not a safety. I feel pretty good about that possibility. Actually, if anything after watching him more I don't know that'll be there.

I also really like Da'Ron Payne. I think he's going to be a superstar if he gets to a one-gap scheme where he can attack and make plays.


I could easily see him making the transition, if he had to.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Sammich » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:38 am

I went Nelson. For me Chubb and Nelson are 1a and 1b in this draft. We've got to fix the trenches- everything else is secondary (no pun intended) at this point. You can get the fanciest icing in the world and it won't matter if the cake sucks.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:16 am

The Minkah/Ramsey comparison is a natural one since both were highly regarded safety/corner hybrids coming out. The big difference is Minkah has to prove he has the freaky athletics that Ramsey had, and that will be tough since Ramsey was a legendary athlete since high school. As well I'd say Ramsey was the more "natural" corner to this point. IMHO Fitz is a safety who can play some CB. Where I'd say Fitz edges out Ramsey, is that Fitz has the leadership and intangibles of a team captain. He's also a more physical and hard nosed player who displays great toughness. Fitz is like a Ramsey/Jamal Adams hybrid.

The reason I posted this poll is 2 fold, 1 I think this is the choice we end up making on draft day, and 2 it is a choice I'm very torn on. Gun to my head, I think I go Fitz. Nelson is the more elite prospect and fills the bigger need, but a guy like Minkah just provides more of an impact. Perhaps he could team with Hargreaves and Evans to give us a trio of difference makers in the secondary, and if that happens our back 7 is looking real solid. Just a matter of getting them all on the field...
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Super K » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:10 pm

Sammich wrote:I went Nelson. For me Chubb and Nelson are 1a and 1b in this draft. We've got to fix the trenches- everything else is secondary (no pun intended) at this point. You can get the fanciest icing in the world and it won't matter if the cake sucks.



I think Fitz is a helluva player, but I agree with you here..

Infact, if Chubb/Nelson are 1A/1B, then my #2 guy is actually Vea..whether at #7 or a trade back scenerio...
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:18 pm

Super K wrote:
Sammich wrote:I went Nelson. For me Chubb and Nelson are 1a and 1b in this draft. We've got to fix the trenches- everything else is secondary (no pun intended) at this point. You can get the fanciest icing in the world and it won't matter if the cake sucks.



I think Fitz is a helluva player, but I agree with you here..

Infact, if Chubb/Nelson are 1A/1B, then my #2 guy is actually Vea..whether at #7 or a trade back scenerio...


Gotta step in here. I like Vea a lot too but he won't have the impact Fitz will on a defense. And you know how I feel about the trenches. You make exceptions for exceptional players and that's exactly what Fitz is.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:33 pm

For me, there are 4 blue-chip prospects in this draft. Those 4 guys are Chubb, Barkley, Fitz, and Nelson. If one of those 4 guys are there, you don't pass on them. It reminds me of the Hargreaves draft where you had Bosa, Ramsey, Elliott, and Tunsil (though obviously Tunsil was a LT who fucked his shitup due to being a legit head case).
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:56 pm

I would take Nelson , it help solidify our line for years .
But I think we would take Davenport with this scenario anyways ...
although drafting Fitz and signing the honey badger would make our secondary awesome we need to rush the passer .
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Teitan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:42 pm

Can’t go wrong.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Teitan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:46 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:

I think Fitz is a helluva player, but I agree with you here..

Infact, if Chubb/Nelson are 1A/1B, then my #2 guy is actually Vea..whether at #7 or a trade back scenerio...


Gotta step in here. I like Vea a lot too but he won't have the impact Fitz will on a defense. And you know how I feel about the trenches. You make exceptions for exceptional players and that's exactly what Fitz is.


A Sheldon Richardson type in FA and Fitz in the draft. Not a bad haul
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Super K » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:59 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:

I think Fitz is a helluva player, but I agree with you here..

Infact, if Chubb/Nelson are 1A/1B, then my #2 guy is actually Vea..whether at #7 or a trade back scenerio...


Gotta step in here. I like Vea a lot too but he won't have the impact Fitz will on a defense. And you know how I feel about the trenches. You make exceptions for exceptional players and that's exactly what Fitz is.


Again, I think Fitz is gonna be very good so this isn't an argument I'm willing to fall on a sword for...

And as someone else illustrated, if we have a nice FA, Fitz might even make sense...
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:16 pm

Teitan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Gotta step in here. I like Vea a lot too but he won't have the impact Fitz will on a defense. And you know how I feel about the trenches. You make exceptions for exceptional players and that's exactly what Fitz is.


A Sheldon Richardson type in FA and Fitz in the draft. Not a bad haul


Not bad at all. That would be damn great.

Is Sheldon Richardson a FA? God I hope so.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:20 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:I would take Nelson , it help solidify our line for years .
But I think we would take Davenport with this scenario anyways ...
although drafting Fitz and signing the honey badger would make our secondary awesome we need to rush the passer .


He's itching up draft boards as well. I see a ton of Justin Evans in him in that he's very skilled and sound. He just needs to play with more self control and discipline and not reckless abandonment all of the time.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Teitan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:47 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Teitan wrote:
A Sheldon Richardson type in FA and Fitz in the draft. Not a bad haul


Not bad at all. That would be damn great.

Is Sheldon Richardson a FA? God I hope so.


Yes.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Cheb » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:00 pm

I like both Fitz and Nelson. I think that getting either would be a win for our team. Both are very good players, and both would help us immensely.

Between the two of them, basically it would devolve into which package I would like.

Would you prefer our first two picks being Minkah Fitzpatrick and Will Hernandez, or would you prefer Quenton Nelson and Mike Hughes?

A tough decision.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:21 pm

Cheb wrote:I like both Fitz and Nelson. I think that getting either would be a win for our team. Both are very good players, and both would help us immensely.

Between the two of them, basically it would devolve into which package I would like.

Would you prefer our first two picks being Minkah Fitzpatrick and Will Hernandez, or would you prefer Quenton Nelson and Mike Hughes?

A tough decision.

Neither of those packages includ a RB or an edge.

Taking Minkah or Nelson to me would be a case of going BPA. I'm a believer in going BPA in round 1, but we could then need to be sure we land a DE and a RB on Day 2.

Ultimately I think the wise move would be to sign a big time CB and G so we we're in good shape no matter which one of these 2 fall into our lap. And thus are free to target our needs on Day 2.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:42 pm

Cheb wrote:I like both Fitz and Nelson. I think that getting either would be a win for our team. Both are very good players, and both would help us immensely.

Between the two of them, basically it would devolve into which package I would like.

Would you prefer our first two picks being Minkah Fitzpatrick and Will Hernandez, or would you prefer Quenton Nelson and Mike Hughes?

A tough decision.


Either package would be a nice return. We really can’t go wrong either way.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby pewterpirates » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:37 pm

If either one ends up in pewter & red, it's a win for the Bucs. I'll preface everything I'm about to say by putting a disclaimer: it's best to wait and see what happens in free agency to really say who I prefer. But until then...if I had to choose right now, I'd go Nelson.

I don't buy into the "advanced" numbers or whatever nonsense you want to use to claim that our offensive line was decent or good this past season. I watched all the games & there were hardly any holes in the run game, and it felt like our QBs didn't have consistent time in the pocket. We were one of the worst rushing teams in the league, and even though most fans want to put all the blame on #22, it simply wasn't just Doug Martin sucking.

Yeah, our defense needs playmakers and help in the worst way. But if you take a can't-miss guy like Nelson, I believe he completely solidifies the OL. Stick him in between Smith and Marpet, and that should give a needed boost to the entire offense. And when you have a decent OL and run game, that helps your defense by keeping it off the field.

I like Fitzpatrick — but until the pass rush is addressed, we could spend four 1st round picks on DBs, and our defense would still suck. It sucked that VH3 missed so much time this past season because we still don't really have a great feel for what he's going to be. We can get a healthy & improved VH3 back and add Fitzpatrick in the mix, but if our pass rush is still weak, it won't matter.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:50 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If they were in the same draft Minkah would be rated higher. He's a rich man's Jalen Ramsey at this point and that's absolutely nothing against Ramsey at all. Minkah is simply that good of a prospect. He's a weapon you can lineup all over the place, he's always around the ball, he's a ball hawk and knows how to score when he has it in his hands.

I agree, this would be a great problem to have on draft day.

Wow. That's high praise.

I never took the time to compare Fitz and Ramsey but now I'm gonna have to do that.


Yeah, tell me the results if your comparison. Ramsey was the top overall player on some teams boards and I think he is the most dynamic athlete playing in an NFL backfield at the moment. His arms are so long it’s almost like being covered by someone with 4 legs. If Fitz is that good let’s move up.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:54 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Wow. That's high praise.

I never took the time to compare Fitz and Ramsey but now I'm gonna have to do that.


Yeah, tell me the results if your comparison. Ramsey was the top overall player on some teams boards and I think he is the most dynamic athlete playing in an NFL backfield at the moment. His arms are so long it’s almost like being covered by someone with 4 legs. If Fitz is that good let’s move up.

While I understand the comparison, calling Fitz a rich mans Ramsey is a pretty big reach. As you said, Ramsey's physical profile is just unique. Fitz is a big time DB prospect for sure though.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:04 pm

The thread title should have been.

Chubb then, Nelson then, then who _____________________.



Nelson should be a landslide over Fitz. for our first pick, if Chubb is gone. It wouldnt be out of the realm of possibilities for it to be a CB or some other defensive linemen. Yes DL... meaning either or.
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Re: Fitz or Nelson?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:37 pm

Jalen Ramsey in 2015 vs. Miami




Minkah Fitzpatrick vs. Clemson in the Sugar Bowl this month.



Selected both games at random.
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