Draft Watch: DT

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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:38 am

Then the thoughts of really turning into a 3-4 crept into my head with Vea. The first thing I see this draft has to offer with Vea, is damn fast linebackers. Can you imagine a stable of 8 to 10 linebackers with all kinds of useful talents. I know MJW said not to get to cute with Vea but if we did have another capable nose tackle, Vea could beast out on those tackles too.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby SIBucsFan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:34 pm

Just how good is Vea? It seems a lot of people are high on him.

I think he could be a good one, but from watch film I've been watching, I noticed that:

1) He lacks explosion; I realize he's 350 lbs., but I don't think a nose tackle who doesn't have a special burst warrants a top 7 selection; his burst is that of a linemen who is about 350 lbs., not special at all
2) He relies heavily on upper-body strength; I realize he's immensely strong, but that tends to not work at the highest level
3) Correlating to point #2, he has a tendency to not stay low; I would guess it's a combination of his supreme heftiness, which could affect his stamina as the game winds down; it just limits his ability to be a 3-down linemen at the next level

I don't think he is as good as people believe he is. I think he will eventually be good, possibly very good, but not great. In other words, Haloti he is Ngata.

What makes him as great as people say he is?
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Super K » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:27 pm

Your comp of Haloti Ngota isn't far off...

Funny thing is Ngota was drafted 12th....and he was damn well worth it because of the overall impact he had on defense; versatility, eating blocks for ray-ray and company, personal accomplishments etc...

If Vea could do for us what Ngota did for the Ravens, I'm sprinting to the podium at #7...
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:40 pm

I'm not excited about Vea at 7th. I think he's a 2-down player that won't offer much in the pass rush. He may be a great defender, but if you can't rush the QB as a D-linemen I don't want to spend a top 10 pick on you. Especially after we just signed two above average run stopping DTs in Allen and Urine.

I'd rather risk it w/ Davenport or Landry if we MUST draft Dline at 7 (assuming Chubb is already gone). Or go with a better prospect at a different position.

Plus this draft class is pretty deep at DT and the dropoff of DTs available at 38 won't be much less that Vea imo.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:28 pm

I'm noticing a surprising lack of love for Da'Ron Payne. Do we really hate bama defenders that much?
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:29 pm

Doctor wrote:I'm noticing a surprising lack of love for Da'Ron Payne. Do we really hate bama defenders that much?


I think he's great, but he's not great for the Bucs at seventh overall.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:31 pm

I agree, 7th is too rich. But if we can talk about Vea at 7 then come on...
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:35 pm

Doctor wrote:I agree, 7th is too rich. But if we can talk about Vea at 7 then come on...


Vea has lined up as an outside rusher in a three-man rush scheme and gotten sacks, which for a man his size is absurd. Payne is a badass run defender, but that's probably all hes ever going to be.

Vea will come off the board before Payne, and for good reasons. Payne is a two down player, which is the last kind of defensive tackle we need right now.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:22 am

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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am

Jason Bourne wrote:Hurst ran 4.97 in the 40

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLDraft/sta ... 0033331206

If Hurst falls on draft day, he would be a nice steal for sure.

There isn't a DT in this draft I'd take at 7 though.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Cheb » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:54 am

Jason Bourne wrote:Hurst ran 4.97 in the 40

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLDraft/sta ... 0033331206


We won't get him, but I'm glad he's making good.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Cheb wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:Hurst ran 4.97 in the 40

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLDraft/sta ... 0033331206


We won't get him, but I'm glad he's making good.


Me too. I'm still holding out a slight hope that he falls to pick 38. He'd be the perfect pick for us there.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
We won't get him, but I'm glad he's making good.


Me too. I'm still holding out a slight hope that he falls to pick 38. He'd be the perfect pick for us there.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby MJW » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:05 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
We won't get him, but I'm glad he's making good.


Me too. I'm still holding out a slight hope that he falls to pick 38. He'd be the perfect pick for us there.


Agree 100%. He'd be a home run pick at #38 if we feel good about his medical. He'd be perfect for the Clinton McDonald role, and hopefully, for more in the future.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:51 pm

Bootz, go check out his pro day on Walter.

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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Hatter » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:17 pm

PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby MJW » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:10 pm

Hatter wrote:PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.


He's on the short side but he's stout and he moves well. He could be an interesting mid-round addition as a wave tackle here. I could see him being a Clinton McDonald type.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby terrytate » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:32 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Me too. I'm still holding out a slight hope that he falls to pick 38. He'd be the perfect pick for us there.


Agree 100%. He'd be a home run pick at #38 if we feel good about his medical. He'd be perfect for the Clinton McDonald role, and hopefully, for more in the future.



For some reason, I don't think the Bucs go DT in the second. If I were picking, I'd like to see either Hurst fall to us or push Taven Bryan to us.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby MJW » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:16 pm

terrytate wrote:
MJW wrote:
Agree 100%. He'd be a home run pick at #38 if we feel good about his medical. He'd be perfect for the Clinton McDonald role, and hopefully, for more in the future.



For some reason, I don't think the Bucs go DT in the second. If I were picking, I'd like to see either Hurst fall to us or push Taven Bryan to us.


Unless we trade up, the Taven Bryan dream is dead. I think he goes top half of the first round.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 am

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/147277/5857 ... 0ef422b1c9

33 sacks and 59 TFL,s in three years and already has his degree in mechanical engineering.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:10 am

Hatter wrote:PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.


4.76 forty with 36 reps

6'1" and 309lbs
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby MJW » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:16 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Hatter wrote:PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.


4.76 forty with 36 reps

6'1" and 309lbs


Small school defensive linemen are so hard to project to the league, though. Looking at Sam Houston State's schedule, I'm guessing Hall generally lined up against 270 lbs. guards.

Based on what I'm reading and what people smarter than me are saying, he's a very interesting guy in the 5-6 range.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:45 am

MJW wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
4.76 forty with 36 reps

6'1" and 309lbs


Small school defensive linemen are so hard to project to the league, though. Looking at Sam Houston State's schedule, I'm guessing Hall generally lined up against 270 lbs. guards.

Based on what I'm reading and what people smarter than me are saying, he's a very interesting guy in the 5-6 range.


Yeah inferior comp and he's a 309lb track guy. When everyone opens the door (1st or 2nd) for a small school prospect, that starts a little excitement.

But.

Let some years go by and suddenly a late round guy was thought of having a chance at being good all along.

At 6'5" 290, the other guy ran a 4.78 ------------- also against inferior competiton.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:57 am

By the way 4.78 could be the Gholston who actually does get to the QB.

Maybe, maybe not, one thing is, picking them later could prove to be quite valuable.


Hoping to have a player reach us and actually having a player reach us! One you can control the other not so much.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Doctor » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:00 am

Hatter wrote:PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.

I'd love him in the fourth but he's a project just from shear conditioning. He put on more weight to bulk up but it didn't seem to do him good and in fact slowed him down. Playing in Tampa is not going to make life any easier for him.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:16 am

Doctor wrote:
Hatter wrote:PJ Hall is someone thats been pointed out to me several times lately, I admit he looks awesome.
86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks plus 14 career blocked kicks! Pretty athletic for a big fella.

I'd love him in the fourth but he's a project just from shear conditioning. He put on more weight to bulk up but it didn't seem to do him good and in fact slowed him down. Playing in Tampa is not going to make life any easier for him.


How did you come up with this post, I mean can you link a story to it? I know the Bearkats had him playing a lot of defensive end and my theory on that is who needs bend when your already down there. If he ran a 4.76, what did he run before he put on 20 pounds?

What he can offer is a change up in the pass rush, think like he can do what Okoronkwo can do only fifty pounds heavier. With this guy you need to keep some bend on him to block him. I think that is where Aaron Donald finds his success.

One crazy stat that is getting overlooked is he had 29 pass break-ups, how does someone just over six foot tall do that?
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:46 am

SIBucsFan wrote:Just how good is Vea? It seems a lot of people are high on him.

I think he could be a good one, but from watch film I've been watching, I noticed that:

1) He lacks explosion; I realize he's 350 lbs., but I don't think a nose tackle who doesn't have a special burst warrants a top 7 selection; his burst is that of a linemen who is about 350 lbs., not special at all
2) He relies heavily on upper-body strength; I realize he's immensely strong, but that tends to not work at the highest level
3) Correlating to point #2, he has a tendency to not stay low; I would guess it's a combination of his supreme heftiness, which could affect his stamina as the game winds down; it just limits his ability to be a 3-down linemen at the next level

I don't think he is as good as people believe he is. I think he will eventually be good, possibly very good, but not great. In other words, Haloti he is Ngata.

What makes him as great as people say he is?


When those pics of Evans getting beat for a TD were posted you can see both of our defensive tackles getting double teamed and doing nothing. They were stymied, the qb just waited for the route in the pocket and hit his target with seven covering four in pass protection. If Vea does push the pocket back that changes a lot of things. If he pushes a tackle back - same thing. Your not allowing the qb to feel comfortable.

The term I used quite a bit was getting boy slapped - just plain being more physical than us.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:55 am

I agree with a lot of what mdb is saying. It's like his profile was hacked by someone who knows football and makes sense.
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:15 am

Bestest compliment I ever had got from Bootz!
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Re: Draft Watch: DT

Postby Hatter » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:36 am

I'd have to hunt down exactly what I read other than the NFL Draft profile. There were a few pieces actually.

What gets me digging around on players I otherwise would not have known about is if one of the sports talking heads (or even some of you that I actually listen too) bring someone up.. specially if its been brought up by more than one on separate occasions its usually worth it to look deeper.
I like the small school guys that may be that gem. Like I said, he's VERY athletic for a Big (but shorter) guy.
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