In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects...

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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:21 am

real bucs fan wrote:Hernandez in the 2nd would be great- though I do think that's the pick where we need to get the RB.


I don't expect offense to be addressed that early in the draft. And if it is it would be Oline before it's any skills position.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:18 pm

real bucs fan wrote:I think the main difference between Hernandez and Nelson are in their movement skills. I think both are going to be absolutely dominant run blockers, but Nelson will be much more effective pulling and in pass protection.

That said I understand the rationale of passing on Nelson with the idea that one can land an excellent Guard on Day 2 of this epic Guard draft.

But ultimately I think you just have to go BPA. You never know who's going to fall to Day 2, and who won't. It's why I wouldn't pass on Barkley- as much as I'd love Guice or Michel in round 2, I think there's a great chance neither make it there, and then we're fucked.

Take the BPA at 7, and then regroup after Round 1 and identify your Day 2 targets to fill your needs. That's always the best philosophy IMO.


Watch Hernandez more. His movement skills are really, really good for a guy his size. There are a ton of clips of him getting to the 2nd or 3rd level with ease, or handling speed rushers on a switch block.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Hernandez in the 2nd would be great- though I do think that's the pick where we need to get the RB.


I don't expect offense to be addressed that early in the draft. And if it is it would be Oline before it's any skills position.


Truth. I don't see Winston getting any shiny new toys. At least, I hope not.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:30 pm

I like Hernandez, but he'll be there at pick 38 for us and his ceiling is mid 2nd round imo.

He may move well "for his size", but his feet are very average and I think he'll struggle vs the quickness of interior Dlinemen at the NFL level in pass pro. Especially when teams move DEs inside on passing downs.

Combine that with less than ideal length and I don't see him going before mid-late round 2.

Most Guards with similar traits/measurables are day 3 picks at best so it's not an insult to say he's a rd 3 guy.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Sammich » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:59 pm

I'm not gonna lie- I'd be perfectly fine with taking Nelson in the first and somebody like Hernandez in the second. Turn a weakness into a strength and be done with it. I like the idea of putting Marpet between two 330+ pound bulldozers and having one of those lines to where Jameis can walk up to the line and tell the defense where we're running and it doesn't matter because they can't stop it.

I do admit I put a much higher premium on the guard position than most, but in the draft you've gotta play the hand you're dealt. I would love to fix the pass rush as much as anybody, but this looks like a weak draft to do that. Something like G-G-RB-rest on dline in the hopes that one or 2 pan out would look good to me.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby BucJordan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:48 pm

Sammich wrote:I'm not gonna lie- I'd be perfectly fine with taking Nelson in the first and somebody like Hernandez in the second. Turn a weakness into a strength and be done with it. I like the idea of putting Marpet between two 330+ pound bulldozers and having one of those lines to where Jameis can walk up to the line and tell the defense where we're running and it doesn't matter because they can't stop it.

I do admit I put a much higher premium on the guard position than most, but in the draft you've gotta play the hand you're dealt. I would love to fix the pass rush as much as anybody, but this looks like a weak draft to do that. Something like G-G-RB-rest on dline in the hopes that one or 2 pan out would look good to me.


This is why we need to sign at least one good edge rusher in FA. All the better if we can land a premium guy like Lawrence (not getting my hopes up), but we need SOMEONE to pair with/hedge our bets on Spence. The good news is that Licht has been pretty good about doing this in FA so we're not completely desperate come draft time so we've had pretty good drafts going BPA. Unfortunately most of our FAs have been garbage...
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:59 pm

Sammich wrote:I'm not gonna lie- I'd be perfectly fine with taking Nelson in the first and somebody like Hernandez in the second. Turn a weakness into a strength and be done with it. I like the idea of putting Marpet between two 330+ pound bulldozers and having one of those lines to where Jameis can walk up to the line and tell the defense where we're running and it doesn't matter because they can't stop it.

I do admit I put a much higher premium on the guard position than most, but in the draft you've gotta play the hand you're dealt. I would love to fix the pass rush as much as anybody, but this looks like a weak draft to do that. Something like G-G-RB-rest on dline in the hopes that one or 2 pan out would look good to me.


Not gonna lie, LOVE your thought process...and just thinking about rolling out that proposed OL gets my juices flowing...

BUT, our DL and pass rush is such hot, dumpster fire, trash...

I just can't get on board with it..
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Teitan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Imaginary scenario:

Sign Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson.

Draft Q. Nelson, Will Hernandez

Lines = fixed. (On paper)
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm

Teitan wrote:Imaginary scenario:

Sign Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson.

Draft Q. Nelson, Will Hernandez

Lines = fixed. (On paper)


I need to see more, especially in regards to our DE position..just signing and/or drafting 1 guy isn't gonna do it..

Hell, the same may hold true for us at DT..

We seriously may have the least talented DL in the entire league..adding 2 B+ guys isn't enough..
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:35 pm

Teitan wrote:Imaginary scenario:

Sign Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson.

Draft Q. Nelson, Will Hernandez

Lines = fixed. (On paper)


Not closed to fixed. This is the prime example of trying to force a quick fix. You're talking about counting on 2 FAs, who have been at best inconsistent year to year in their careers, to be saviors for this team. You're talking about counting on 2 rookies to step in and be saviors for this team.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Teitan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:45 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Teitan wrote:Imaginary scenario:

Sign Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson.

Draft Q. Nelson, Will Hernandez

Lines = fixed. (On paper)


Not closed to fixed. This is the prime example of trying to force a quick fix. You're talking about counting on 2 FAs, who have been at best inconsistent year to year in their careers, to be saviors for this team. You're talking about counting on 2 rookies to step in and be saviors for this team.



On paper. And of course it’s no garuntee. But that oline would be built for the future and D line looking for success now.

Obviously that’s a quick fix solution. Not expecting those rooks to save the team. I think Nelson is an impact rookie though. Just throwing **** out for discussion, brah.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:52 pm

Going Guard back to back in rounds 1-2 ain't happening... and thank god...
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Teitan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:54 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Going Guard back to back in rounds 1-2 ain't happening... and thank god...


Definitely not happening

But maybe:

FA Ansah
FA Pugh
Draft Nelson
Draft Key

Or Chubb
Hernandez

Or Barkley
Hernandez


We can’t make a bad pick at 7, basically.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:00 pm

I'm hoping for a Andrew Norwell and Trumaine Johnson combo in FA.

Then going RB/DE in some order in rounds 1 and 2.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:20 pm

I'd love to see us do the following:

FA:

Michael Bennett DE
Trumaine Johnson CB
Brent Grimes CB (resign)
Sheldon Richardson DT

Draft:

Chubb DE
Hernandez G
Carter DE/Edge
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:23 pm

Super K wrote:I'd love to see us do the following:

FA:

Michael Bennett DE
Trumaine Johnson CB
Brent Grimes CB (resign)
Sheldon Richardson DT

Draft:

Chubb DE
Hernandez G
Carter DE/Edge


I could get on board with this. Although again, I think any FA CB acquisition would mean Grimes won't be re-signed.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Teitan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:23 pm

Super K wrote:I'd love to see us do the following:

FA:

Michael Bennett DE
Truman Johnson CB
Brent Grimes CB (resign)
Sheldon Richardson DT

Draft:

Chubb DE
Hernandez G
Carter DE/Edge


I’m in.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:05 am

Teitan wrote:
Super K wrote:I'd love to see us do the following:

FA:

Michael Bennett DE
Truman Johnson CB
Brent Grimes CB (resign)
Sheldon Richardson DT

Draft:

Chubb DE
Hernandez G
Carter DE/Edge


I’m in.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Sammich » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Teitan wrote:Imaginary scenario:

Sign Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson.

Draft Q. Nelson, Will Hernandez

Lines = fixed. (On paper)


Not closed to fixed. This is the prime example of trying to force a quick fix. You're talking about counting on 2 FAs, who have been at best inconsistent year to year in their careers, to be saviors for this team. You're talking about counting on 2 rookies to step in and be saviors for this team.


It's not gonna get fixed in one offseason. All we can do is get the best players available to us and hope. There isn't a person on this board (not even RBF) that would pass on Chubb if he's there, but it's very unlikely he is there. We're all just tossing out ideas of what we think would improve the team the most with the players that are likely to be available.

You also say we shouldn't count on rookies or free agents. What is this mysterious 3rd option you aren't sharing with us? I'm all for player development and home grown talent, but that isn't going to help us this year.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby MJW » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:24 am

Sammich wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Not closed to fixed. This is the prime example of trying to force a quick fix. You're talking about counting on 2 FAs, who have been at best inconsistent year to year in their careers, to be saviors for this team. You're talking about counting on 2 rookies to step in and be saviors for this team.


It's not gonna get fixed in one offseason. All we can do is get the best players available to us and hope. There isn't a person on this board (not even RBF) that would pass on Chubb if he's there, but it's very unlikely he is there. We're all just tossing out ideas of what we think would improve the team the most with the players that are likely to be available.

You also say we shouldn't count on rookies or free agents. What is this mysterious 3rd option you aren't sharing with us? I'm all for player development and home grown talent, but that isn't going to help us this year.


I want some of it to get fixed this offseason. The offensive line, the pass rush, the cornerback mess...some of it needs to get fixed. No safeties. No running backs. No, "this guy doesn't address any of the huge holes we've had since Licht got here, but he was our BPA" picks.

Our offensive line was arguably better in 2013 than it is now. That's after four years of Licht.
Our pass rush isn't much better - if better at all - than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.
Our secondary is not better than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.

Let's actually FIX one or two of these spots this offseason. Not with a band-aid, or a cute "under the radar" budget free agent. Let's shell out the money for a top corner and/or top guard and/or top rusher. Let's draft a top offensive lineman, or corner, or rusher.

Let's actually address our problems with authority.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:14 am

Drafttek's new draft is out!

They have us picking Ronald Jones II and passing on Vita Vea. I wanted Chase Edmonds at the end of the draft and then bring in Derron Johnson for camp.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:19 am

I predict the third and fourth round is where we will find some game changers.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:29 am

I guarantee if we pick a running back in the 2nd round we will not make the playoffs.
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:14 am

mdb1958 wrote:Drafttek's new draft is out!

They have us picking Ronald Jones II and passing on Vita Vea.


I think I'd have a stroke...

Edit:

Mdb, I went back and looked at their entire 5 round mock they've done for us this far...it's the kind of draft that would have Licht fired before it was over...

1. Davenport DE UTSA
2. Jones RB USC
3. Meeks CB Stanford
4. Clark WR LSU
5. Settle DL VTech
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:19 am

MJW wrote:
Sammich wrote:
It's not gonna get fixed in one offseason. All we can do is get the best players available to us and hope. There isn't a person on this board (not even RBF) that would pass on Chubb if he's there, but it's very unlikely he is there. We're all just tossing out ideas of what we think would improve the team the most with the players that are likely to be available.

You also say we shouldn't count on rookies or free agents. What is this mysterious 3rd option you aren't sharing with us? I'm all for player development and home grown talent, but that isn't going to help us this year.


I want some of it to get fixed this offseason. The offensive line, the pass rush, the cornerback mess...some of it needs to get fixed. No safeties. No running backs. No, "this guy doesn't address any of the huge holes we've had since Licht got here, but he was our BPA" picks.

Our offensive line was arguably better in 2013 than it is now. That's after four years of Licht.
Our pass rush isn't much better - if better at all - than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.
Our secondary is not better than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.

Let's actually FIX one or two of these spots this offseason. Not with a band-aid, or a cute "under the radar" budget free agent. Let's shell out the money for a top corner and/or top guard and/or top rusher. Let's draft a top offensive lineman, or corner, or rusher.

Let's actually address our problems with authority.


Exactly...and that doesn't mean we have to reach for a player or position in the draft, it just means we have to go in with a plan... multiple plans, actually, for how the pieces may fall...
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:23 am

Assuming Lawrence and Ansah stay put, our only real high percentage shot at getting a top pass rusher, as in a guy who can get double digit sacks in 2018, is Bradley Chubb. If Chubb is taken, then we have to gamble a bit. For myself, the gambles I would make would be as follows:

FA: Alex Okafor. Dude was breaking out in a big way before tearing his achilles. Watch that first Saints game, and he was a game wrecker against us.
Draft: Lorenzo Carter. Right now he's a 3rd rounder, but I could see him skyrocketing post combine. To me he'd be a tremendous gamble at any point on Day 2. He's a freaky an athletic talent as you will find on planet earth, and he's a high character guy too. He just happened to be playing a different position than he'll be drafted for in college.

My big name targets in FA would be Panthers All-Pro LG Andrew Norwell, and Rams CB Trumaine Johnson. If there is a QB run ahead of us, and assuming Chubb is off the board, there's a chance Barkley could fall into our laps. In that case I'd sprint and take him at 7. Leaving us with an offseason of:

FA: Andrew Norwell, LG
FA: Trumaine Johnson, CB
FA: Alex Okafor, DE

R1: Saquan Barkley, RB
R2: Lorenzo Carter, DE
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:42 am

RBF, that looks like a 2014 or 2016 Licht/DK offseason plan (specifically in regards to addressing our pass rush)...

Talented, mid level FA who may/may not have been underutilized coming off injury..

Athletic, wildcard guy in the draft whom will either boom or bust..

But there is NO way that is all they can do..no way in hell..they are both basically on 1 year deals..our anemic pass rush has cost us dearly the last 3 years..

And I love Carter, hell in this very thread I wrote that I want us to grab him, but your plan above is nowhere close to enough..

Licht/DK need to throw a "Hail Mary" if all other plans disappear..they are at the end of their ropes and are that desperate, or at least they should be..
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:45 am

Super K wrote:RBF, that looks like a 2014 or 2016 Licht/DK offseason plan (specifically in regards to addressing our pass rush)...

Talented, mid level FA who may/may not have been underutilized coming off injury..

Athletic, wildcard guy in the draft whom will either boom or bust..

But there is NO way that is all they can do..no way in hell..they are both basically on 1 year deals..our anemic pass rush has cost us dearly the last 3 years..

And I love Carter, hell in this very thread I wrote that I want us to grab him, but your plan above is nowhere close to enough..

Licht/DK need to throw a "Hail Mary" if all other plans disappear..they are at the end of their ropes and are that desperate, or at least they should be..

You don't seem to understand that you only have so many roster spots. You want to add like 5 edge rushers while keeping Ayers, Spence, and Gholston. It doesn't work like that. We can add 2 guys, and assuming Chubb, Lawrence, and Ansah aren't available, this is as good a plan as any. I'd rather gamble on Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7... and Okafor is my favourite gamble of all the ends in free agency...
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby Super K » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:49 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:RBF, that looks like a 2014 or 2016 Licht/DK offseason plan (specifically in regards to addressing our pass rush)...

Talented, mid level FA who may/may not have been underutilized coming off injury..

Athletic, wildcard guy in the draft whom will either boom or bust..

But there is NO way that is all they can do..no way in hell..they are both basically on 1 year deals..our anemic pass rush has cost us dearly the last 3 years..

And I love Carter, hell in this very thread I wrote that I want us to grab him, but your plan above is nowhere close to enough..

Licht/DK need to throw a "Hail Mary" if all other plans disappear..they are at the end of their ropes and are that desperate, or at least they should be..

You don't seem to understand that you only have so many roster spots. You want to add like 5 edge rushers while keeping Ayers, Spence, and Gholston. It doesn't work like that. We can add 2 guys, and assuming Chubb, Lawrence, and Ansah aren't available, this is as good a plan as any. I'd rather gamble on Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7... and Okafor is my favourite gamble of all the ends in free agency...


C'mon man, I'm fully aware of roster spot numbers...

But I never said keep those 3..

And pass rush, specifically on the DL, just doesn't come from the DE spot..
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Re: In the Second Round of the 2018 Draft Tampa Bay selects.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:51 am

Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:You don't seem to understand that you only have so many roster spots. You want to add like 5 edge rushers while keeping Ayers, Spence, and Gholston. It doesn't work like that. We can add 2 guys, and assuming Chubb, Lawrence, and Ansah aren't available, this is as good a plan as any. I'd rather gamble on Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7... and Okafor is my favourite gamble of all the ends in free agency...


C'mon man, I'm fully aware of roster spot numbers...

But I never said keep those 3..

And pass rush, specifically on the DL, just doesn't come from the DE spot..

So how would you address the pass rush, assuming Chubb, Lawrence and Ansah aren't options?
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