The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:01 pm

mdb1958 wrote:And we are left with this!

3 RB SAQUON BARKLEY - PENN STATE
7 RB DERRIUS GUICE - LSU
8 OT MIKE MCGLINCHEY - NOTRE DAME
10 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
11 LB ROQUAN SMITH - GEORGIA
12 S DERWIN JAMES - FLORIDA STATE

What would the Bears give us for the pick of that litter?


Just don't easy math Mdb...

The Bears AREN'T moving up for one of those RBs..not with the stable they have..

So that leaves the 4 other players...one of which I/we/everybody loves in Nelson..could they be target him?..maybe.. possibly..

What does the value chart say we should get as comp for them to move up 1 spot?..

I'd be alright dropping 1 spot and say picking up a 3rd rounder and taking Vea at 8...it'd suck to close out on Nelson but that's business..
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:03 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
She's actually right. It usually doesn't work out that way. Very easy to say in February "I think this class compares to that class" because there's nothing to prove you wrong yet. When you don't know much you can take that position because it's low risk at this point. Only time will tell.

Time will tell, but there are obvious parallels between Bosa/Ramsey/Elliott and Chubb/Fitz/Barkley. And I think the point here is that if you have the 7th pick, you're hoping for one of those guys.


2016 was a huge outlier to this point, because all five of the top five picks seem to have hit. I'm reasonably sure we could look at every draft EVER and not have that be the case. Like, every draft ever. Expecting that to hold again would be a losing proposition.

Also, even if that was your "top tier," and it was a good tier, consolation prizes could have included Ronnie Stanley, DeForest Buckner, Jack Conklin, Taylor Decker, and several other good/great/could be incredible still options.

The point is, it's likely not the end of the world if we end up outside of what we consider to be the "top tier."
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:17 pm

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Chubb is my #1 due to the position he plays.

If he's off the board there are 3 others that I'd be equally thrilled about at 7th overall. Nelson, Barkley, Fitz.

If the Bucs miss on all 4 of those prospects I want to trade down if at all possible.

Worst case scenario imho is drafting someone not in that group of 4 at 7th overall.


These informal groupings that develop...they usually don't end up meaning much. Remember 2012? There was a six-person top tier: Luck, RGIII, Richardson, Khalil, Blackmon, and Claiborne.

NO ONE had those last two on the same elite level as those other guys. They were just the "best at their position" in the draft class, and they are flashy positions so they get a bump. Even then, they weren't even unanimously the best at their spots either. And nowhere on the level of the other guys. In fact, the next closest was probably Kuechly, and not in hindsight.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:23 pm

Doctor wrote:
MJW wrote:
These informal groupings that develop...they usually don't end up meaning much. Remember 2012? There was a six-person top tier: Luck, RGIII, Richardson, Khalil, Blackmon, and Claiborne.

NO ONE had those last two on the same elite level as those other guys. They were just the "best at their position" in the draft class, and they are flashy positions so they get a bump. Even then, they weren't even unanimously the best at their spots either. And nowhere on the level of the other guys. In fact, the next closest was probably Kuechly, and not in hindsight.


Horseshit...Claiborne was being paraded around as the best thing since sliced bread...he was talked about as a "true cover corner" and not just an athlete like PP..
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:29 pm

Super K wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:And we are left with this!

3 RB SAQUON BARKLEY - PENN STATE
7 RB DERRIUS GUICE - LSU
8 OT MIKE MCGLINCHEY - NOTRE DAME
10 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
11 LB ROQUAN SMITH - GEORGIA
12 S DERWIN JAMES - FLORIDA STATE

What would the Bears give us for the pick of that litter?


Just don't easy math Mdb...

The Bears AREN'T moving up for one of those RBs..not with the stable they have..

So that leaves the 4 other players...one of which I/we/everybody loves in Nelson..could they be target him?..maybe.. possibly..

What does the value chart say we should get as comp for them to move up 1 spot?..

I'd be alright dropping 1 spot and say picking up a 3rd rounder and taking Vea at 8...it'd suck to close out on Nelson but that's business..



If other teams aint gotta have them - then that should tell you how special they are. Knock a little of the shine off them at the very least.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:33 pm

Super K wrote:
Doctor wrote:NO ONE had those last two on the same elite level as those other guys. They were just the "best at their position" in the draft class, and they are flashy positions so they get a bump. Even then, they weren't even unanimously the best at their spots either. And nowhere on the level of the other guys. In fact, the next closest was probably Kuechly, and not in hindsight.


Horseshit...Claiborne was being paraded around as the best thing since sliced bread...he was talked about as a "true cover corner" and not just an athlete like PP..

By what moron? I remember many (including myself) thinking Dre Kirkpatrick would actually be the better CB. Claiborne wasn't even thought of as a first rounder before his last season, but ended up having one good college year that many were suspect about. Scoring a 4 on the wonderlic didn't help. He was seen as a lock for the top 10, sure, but he wasn't in the elite group with the other guys. No way.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 pm

What TE is the first off the board?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:47 pm

Doctor wrote:
Super K wrote:
Horseshit...Claiborne was being paraded around as the best thing since sliced bread...he was talked about as a "true cover corner" and not just an athlete like PP..

By what moron? I remember many (including myself) thinking Dre Kirkpatrick would actually be the better CB. Claiborne wasn't even thought of as a first rounder before his last season, but ended up having one good college year that many were suspect about. Scoring a 4 on the wonderlic didn't help. He was seen as a lock for the top 10, sure, but he wasn't in the elite group with the other guys. No way.


The moron's on this board (the old board actually). I remember it all too well because I was fanning hard for Trent Richardson. Like SK said Mo Claiborne was supposed to be the next Revis. Many called him a better corner than PP.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Super K wrote:
Doctor wrote:NO ONE had those last two on the same elite level as those other guys. They were just the "best at their position" in the draft class, and they are flashy positions so they get a bump. Even then, they weren't even unanimously the best at their spots either. And nowhere on the level of the other guys. In fact, the next closest was probably Kuechly, and not in hindsight.


Horseshit...Claiborne was being paraded around as the best thing since sliced bread...he was talked about as a "true cover corner" and not just an athlete like PP..


This. That was the top tier. I remember it clearly. There were those six guys, and they were going to go 1-6, and after that nobody knew who was going off the board. Everyone on the board was pretty shocked when we traded out of that group for this reason.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:13 pm

While I wanted Clark Kent...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby I Are Serious Poster » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:17 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Doctor wrote:By what moron? I remember many (including myself) thinking Dre Kirkpatrick would actually be the better CB. Claiborne wasn't even thought of as a first rounder before his last season, but ended up having one good college year that many were suspect about. Scoring a 4 on the wonderlic didn't help. He was seen as a lock for the top 10, sure, but he wasn't in the elite group with the other guys. No way.


The moron's on this board (the old board actually). I remember it all too well because I was fanning hard for Trent Richardson. Like SK said Mo Claiborne was supposed to be the next Revis. Many called him a better corner than PP.


He was so well regarded we hired his college position coach that offseason.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:08 pm

I Are Serious Poster wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
The moron's on this board (the old board actually). I remember it all too well because I was fanning hard for Trent Richardson. Like SK said Mo Claiborne was supposed to be the next Revis. Many called him a better corner than PP.


He was so well regarded we hired his college position coach that offseason.


Yep. And people used it as the reason why we'd draft him. I was called the usual names of course.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:14 pm

mdb1958 wrote:What TE is the first off the board?

Mark Andrews from Oklahoma.

He's a stud.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:16 pm

Hayden Hurst TE from South Carolina

not that we need another TE
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:22 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:Hayden Hurst TE from South Carolina

not that we need another TE


I don't think he's worth a late 1st early 2nd that people are predicting, but that's just my opinion.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Sammich » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Alpha wrote:
MJW wrote:
It doesn't matter if Davenport is the 2nd or 3rd best "DE" prospect. That's irrelevant. That doesn't matter to anyone but the people who write the bullshit post-draft team grade blogs. And I don't like him because he's a defensive end. I don't believe in reaching. But I do believe in risk management. He has the physical tools to develop into one of the best 4-3 ends in the league. If you're giving me a 50% shot at a 15 sack end, I'm going to take that over a 75% shot at a Pro Bowl guard, because for the upteenth time, a guard's impact on an offense is limited. Otherwise, he'd be a tackle.

As for this BPA bullshit, Licht is clearly a BPA drafter. The result? It's been four years and we still can't rush the passer or cover anyone, because we keep drafting tight ends and safeties and scatbacks and linebackers because they're the "BPA." If you want to win the "Best collection of talent" bowl, good luck with that. I want to win football games. Until we get to the quarterback, that's not going to happen.


Interesting you mention this...the local hacks have Chris Landry on once a week (look him up).

A couple of weeks ago he made an interesting comment. He said (paraphrasing) that the Bucs had a lot of talent but weren't built well. It wasn't a "complimentary" rebuild. Don't know what that means...but an interesting comment...

We simply have a philosophical difference. I would NEVER take a guy who has a "shot" at being a "great" DE over a guy who is a "generational" OL. Guard or not. And by taking a risk on Davenport, you in fact DO believe in "reaching". You're percentages are pulled straight out of your ass.

What if your percentages were different? What if the likelyhood of Davenport turning into a 15+ sack guy were 10% and Nelson turning into an annual Pro Bowl LG 85%? My percentages mean just as much as yours. Where's your "risk management" now?

And before you kill Licht...ignore the Arguayo fiasco...look what he had to work with, when he got here. You people don't remember (or seem to forget), there was a plan in place upon his hire (this was even mentioned by Licht when Lovie was hired). 2 years to re-build the offense. 2 years to re-build the defense. When he arrived...we had nearly bupkis. That was the plan when Lovie took the job. The plan got shit-canned when Tedford "got sick". That doesn't mean the plan was wrong.

We had GARBAGE for talent 4 years ago. We were talent STARVED. NOBODY can argue that we haven't aquired talent since. Rome wasn't re-built in a day. It's convenient to poo-poo the organization when teams like LA and PHIL are so successful (seemingly) overnight. The facts are different but whateves. Think what you like.

Regardless...I take Nelson 100 times out of 100 over a project like Davenport. And i think MOST rational people would.



The part about us being talented but not built well is extremely accurate. We are built outside in as opposed to inside out. I'd love a beastly corner or shiny new RB as much as most, but if we don't fix the lines we're just pissing into the wind.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:05 pm

RBF, what do you know about this guy?

Regis Cibasu Universite de Montreal WRF 6'2" 241
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:21 pm

That's a small school even for Canadian standards. Where'd you hear of him?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:23 am

real bucs fan wrote:That's a small school even for Canadian standards. Where'd you hear of him?


Drafttek. My first thought was I wonder how hard that guy is to bring down.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:27 am

If he runs a 4.5, send him down here so we can get a look!
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Alpha » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:27 am

DreadNaught wrote:Chubb is my #1 due to the position he plays.

If he's off the board there are 3 others that I'd be equally thrilled about at 7th overall. Nelson, Barkley, Fitz.

If the Bucs miss on all 4 of those prospects I want to trade down if at all possible.

Worst case scenario imho is drafting someone not in that group of 4 at 7th overall.


Why on earth do you people keep posting?

You're an idiot. Just...stop.

Hey! Maybe we can trade down to Buffallo and then we trade both first rounders to Cleveland for their #1 and then we trade that pick...

Just please...stfu.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:33 am

Alpha wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Chubb is my #1 due to the position he plays.

If he's off the board there are 3 others that I'd be equally thrilled about at 7th overall. Nelson, Barkley, Fitz.

If the Bucs miss on all 4 of those prospects I want to trade down if at all possible.

Worst case scenario imho is drafting someone not in that group of 4 at 7th overall.


Why on earth do you people keep posting?

You're an idiot. Just...stop.

Hey! Maybe we can trade down to Buffallo and then we trade both first rounders to Cleveland for their #1 and then we trade that pick...

Just please...stfu.


I think we can safely chalk Alpha up as a definite no regarding the prospect of trading the 7th selection.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:32 am

Alpha wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Chubb is my #1 due to the position he plays.

If he's off the board there are 3 others that I'd be equally thrilled about at 7th overall. Nelson, Barkley, Fitz.

If the Bucs miss on all 4 of those prospects I want to trade down if at all possible.

Worst case scenario imho is drafting someone not in that group of 4 at 7th overall.


Why on earth do you people keep posting?

You're an idiot. Just...stop.

Hey! Maybe we can trade down to Buffallo and then we trade both first rounders to Cleveland for their #1 and then we trade that pick...

Just please...stfu.


So you're saying we should trade down?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Why on earth do you people keep posting?

You're an idiot. Just...stop.

Hey! Maybe we can trade down to Buffallo and then we trade both first rounders to Cleveland for their #1 and then we trade that pick...

Just please...stfu.


So you're saying we should trade down?


I'm for picking eighth if Chubb doesnt fall to us -------------------- maybe.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:10 am

The Bears dont have a third round pick gut they have two fourth round picks. A third round next year and a fourth this year and I'll turn down better offers to move down even farther ------------------------- again maybe.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:27 am

mdb1958 wrote:The Bears dont have a third round pick gut they have two fourth round picks. A third round next year and a fourth this year and I'll turn down better offers to move down even farther ------------------------- again maybe.



According to Walterfootball, our #7 pick is worth 1500..their number #8 is worth 1400..only a 100 point difference...

Switching places with them only equates out to getting their 4th rounder this year...we MIGHT be able to squeeze in them tossing in their 6th rounder too...

Getting both a 3rd and 4th is a pipe dream..
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:48 am

Super K wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:The Bears dont have a third round pick gut they have two fourth round picks. A third round next year and a fourth this year and I'll turn down better offers to move down even farther ------------------------- again maybe.



According to Walterfootball, our #7 pick is worth 1500..their number #8 is worth 1400..only a 100 point difference...

Switching places with them only equates out to getting their 4th rounder this year...we MIGHT be able to squeeze in them tossing in their 6th rounder too...

Getting both a 3rd and 4th is a pipe dream..



As time goes by, we will see how much clamor gets thrown at Nelson or the super Safety's. Its my point of view that counts not the Bears, if they wont give enough for me to move off of my pick, thats fine.

The 49ers aint moving up cheap either. The Raiders aint got squat unless they throw in a future too.


These picks are always so valued, "the best of the best" then points get thrown all around and suddenly they aint all that...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:21 am

I don't know who mdb thinks the Bears would be inclined to move up 1 spot for but it damn sure isn't a guard.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:47 am

Pre combine, the 7 names on my big board right now are Chubb, Barkley, Fitz, Nelson, J. Jackson, D. James, and Davenport.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby I Are Serious Poster » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:24 am

Alpha wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Chubb is my #1 due to the position he plays.

If he's off the board there are 3 others that I'd be equally thrilled about at 7th overall. Nelson, Barkley, Fitz.

If the Bucs miss on all 4 of those prospects I want to trade down if at all possible.

Worst case scenario imho is drafting someone not in that group of 4 at 7th overall.


Why on earth do you people keep posting?

You're an idiot. Just...stop.

Hey! Maybe we can trade down to Buffallo and then we trade both first rounders to Cleveland for their #1 and then we trade that pick...

Just please...stfu.


Only if they throw in a stud kick returner; have you even seen Kevin Costner's Draft Day?
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