Draft Watch: OL

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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Brazen331 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:09 am

Can anyone show any evidence this regime would be interested in drafting a G at 7? I would really like to see it. All this Nelson talk adds up to ‘gee I’d love then to draft Nelson to me.’
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:45 am

Brazen331 wrote:Can anyone show any evidence this regime would be interested in drafting a G at 7? I would really like to see it. All this Nelson talk adds up to ‘gee I’d love then to draft Nelson to me.’


In Kipers mock you would go with who instead

In Jeremiah's mock you would go with who instead
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:48 am

Licht was part of a FO in Arizona that drafted a Guard top 10 in Arizona just before he took the GM job here.

That said I have a sinking feeling the folks at OBP have a higher opinion od the Bucs oline than most fans. I believe we'll address Oline/Guard in FA so we aren't as desperate in the draft.

I think Nelson is an elite Guard prospect and as safe as they come at that position. But I'd be a bit surprised if we didn't draft defense in round 1.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:24 am

DreadNaught wrote:Licht was part of a FO in Arizona that drafted a Guard top 10 in Arizona just before he took the GM job here.

That said I have a sinking feeling the folks at OBP have a higher opinion od the Bucs oline than most fans. I believe we'll address Oline/Guard in FA so we aren't as desperate in the draft.

I think Nelson is an elite Guard prospect and as safe as they come at that position. But I'd be a bit surprised if we didn't draft defense in round 1.



Its nice that your offering thoughts of others, now look at those two drafts and give out your player for 7.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:16 am

MJW wrote:
Phantom Phenom wrote:Bucs to draft Nelson . He is often described as a once-in-a-decade OL.


If he was a "Once In A Decade" lineman, he'd be a left tackle. Doesn't mean he won't be good, of course.


He also wouldn't make it out of the top 3 or 4. Let stick around until 7.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:31 am

I dont think they have really started pushing the offensive linemen yet. They'll move some up, move some down, find some new ones etc.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Super K » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:47 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
If he was a "Once In A Decade" lineman, he'd be a left tackle. Doesn't mean he won't be good, of course.


He also wouldn't make it out of the top 3 or 4. Let stick around until 7.



It's a possibility that happens...(doesn't make it past 3-4)...

I can easily see the Colts grabbing him to help protect their franchise aka Andrew Luck... especially considering that he's coming off injury and they've done pretty much nothing to protect him....

I also wouldn't put it past Cleveland to draft him at #4...

Taking Allen or Darnold #1 with Nelson to help protect him is a damn nice haul....
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby uscbucsfan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm

MJW wrote:
Phantom Phenom wrote:Bucs to draft Nelson . He is often described as a once-in-a-decade OL.


If he was a "Once In A Decade" lineman, he'd be a left tackle. Doesn't mean he won't be good, of course.


He's likely a once in a decade guard prospect.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Brazen331 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:48 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Licht was part of a FO in Arizona that drafted a Guard top 10 in Arizona just before he took the GM job here.

That said I have a sinking feeling the folks at OBP have a higher opinion od the Bucs oline than most fans. I believe we'll address Oline/Guard in FA so we aren't as desperate in the draft.

I think Nelson is an elite Guard prospect and as safe as they come at that position. But I'd be a bit surprised if we didn't draft defense in round 1.


Good example. But the way Cooper’s career has played out after being selected at 7, does not give me confidence Licht will do the same thing again at 7. I’d love it to happen as I want a high-ceiling guy if we stay put at 7, Nelson, Barkley, James, someone with the potential to be the best at their position in a few years.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:34 am

I just read that Brandon Parker OT has never given up a sack in his career.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:44 am

mdb1958 wrote:I just read that Brandon Parker OT has never given up a sack in his career.


Neither have I.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Doctor » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Licht was part of a FO in Arizona that drafted a Guard top 10 in Arizona just before he took the GM job here.

That said I have a sinking feeling the folks at OBP have a higher opinion od the Bucs oline than most fans. I believe we'll address Oline/Guard in FA so we aren't as desperate in the draft.

I think Nelson is an elite Guard prospect and as safe as they come at that position. But I'd be a bit surprised if we didn't draft defense in round 1.


Good example. But the way Cooper’s career has played out after being selected at 7, does not give me confidence Licht will do the same thing again at 7. I’d love it to happen as I want a high-ceiling guy if we stay put at 7, Nelson, Barkley, James, someone with the potential to be the best at their position in a few years.

That's exactly what Nelson is....
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:27 am

What is Bret Toth's commitment with the Army?
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby MJW » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:58 am

I really, really like Isaiah Wynn. I've been watching UGA games to get a sense of their guys. He's not a mauler. He'll absolutely have to play guard. And he'd be best in a ZBS or pulling role. But all that said, I think you're talking about a future Pro Bowl guy. He reminds me of those undersized guards who were so good for the 90s/2000s Broncos. Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, Ben Hamilton, those guys.

If we could sign Norwell, then draft Wynn in the 2nd (he won't be there in the 3rd) to ease in behind JR Sweezy, we'd really have something there with Marpet in the middle.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:17 am

MJW wrote:I really, really like Isaiah Wynn. I've been watching UGA games to get a sense of their guys. He's not a mauler. He'll absolutely have to play guard. And he'd be best in a ZBS or pulling role. But all that said, I think you're talking about a future Pro Bowl guy. He reminds me of those undersized guards who were so good for the 90s/2000s Broncos. Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, Ben Hamilton, those guys.

If we could sign Norwell, then draft Wynn in the 2nd (he won't be there in the 3rd) to ease in behind JR Sweezy, we'd really have something there with Marpet in the middle.

Yup. He's a natural guard and stands out when you watch Georgia.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:37 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
MJW wrote:I really, really like Isaiah Wynn. I've been watching UGA games to get a sense of their guys. He's not a mauler. He'll absolutely have to play guard. And he'd be best in a ZBS or pulling role. But all that said, I think you're talking about a future Pro Bowl guy. He reminds me of those undersized guards who were so good for the 90s/2000s Broncos. Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, Ben Hamilton, those guys.

If we could sign Norwell, then draft Wynn in the 2nd (he won't be there in the 3rd) to ease in behind JR Sweezy, we'd really have something there with Marpet in the middle.

Yup. He's a natural guard and stands out when you watch Georgia.


He's just so darn quick and technically sound. He looks like he'd be a complete pain in the butt to line up against. He doesn't make mistakes or lose his balance or take bad angles.

I'll revise what I said - I think we should take him in the 2nd and just give him Sweezy's job.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Sammich » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:41 pm

Maybe I haven't watched enough of Wynn, but I don't think he's a great fit for us. He is technically sound and athletic but lacks power. I agree he would be best in a ZBS. I would rather go for someone like Hernandez that is a monster with crappy technique and hope we can teach him. I get the impression that Wynn is already pretty close to his ceiling.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:54 am

Sammich wrote:Maybe I haven't watched enough of Wynn, but I don't think he's a great fit for us. He is technically sound and athletic but lacks power. I agree he would be best in a ZBS. I would rather go for someone like Hernandez that is a monster with crappy technique and hope we can teach him. I get the impression that Wynn is already pretty close to his ceiling.

I do agree that Hernandez is a better prospect than Wynn.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:45 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Sammich wrote:Maybe I haven't watched enough of Wynn, but I don't think he's a great fit for us. He is technically sound and athletic but lacks power. I agree he would be best in a ZBS. I would rather go for someone like Hernandez that is a monster with crappy technique and hope we can teach him. I get the impression that Wynn is already pretty close to his ceiling.

I do agree that Hernandez is a better prospect than Wynn.


I don't think either are good prospects for the Bucs. It seems like the team likes the powerful and athletic types of interior Olinemen. Hernandez is certainly powerful, but his arm length and ability to block outside the tackle box in space (screens, toss plays) is something I'm not sold on. I think Jacksonville is an ideal spot for him tbh.

Two prospects further down the board that seem like fits for the Bucs are Wyatt Teller from VTech and Austin Corbett from Nevada.

I think both Wynn and Hernandez are solid prospects that should come off the board in the top 50. I just am not sure how they fit here given what seems to be the Bucs preference for interior Oline when you look at traits.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Cheb » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:47 am

I know this puts me in the minority, but I'd rather have Wynn than Hernandez.

I mean, I get the love for Hernandez. If I needed to get two tough yards on third down, and I could pick anyone in the draft to run the ball behind, Hernandez would be my second choice behind Nelson. He latches on well (perhaps a bit too well, more on that later), he's strong as hell, he keeps his feet moving while drive blocking, and he finishes his blocks in thunderous fashion. But he has short arms, he stops his feet constantly if he isn't drive blocking, and he is only an average pass blocker with a disturbing amount of hopping instead of chopping his feet. Hernandez looks lost in space if his defender isn't directly in front of him, both when he's attempting to engage on second level defenders and maintaining his pad level while doing so. Another disturbing trend I've noticed is his hand placement. He is going to get called for holding alot in the NFL if he doesn't clean that up. All that said, he's a ***damn bulldozer, and if you prefer bulldozers, he can do yeoman's work for your team.

Here he is versus Texas:



I really like Wynn. He has great feet and athleticism. His man just doesn't make the play on the ball. He offers schematic versatility, having experience at guard in college and being a second-team All-American left tackle this year. You can tell that he has experience at guard, because he moves well in the trash in the box. Wynn is very good in space, and uses his athleticism to seal defenders in an intelligent manner. If he were three inches taller, Isaiah Wynn would be a top 20 draft pick. As is, he's a bit short at 6'2", and so everyone wants to project him as a professional guard, which is fine. People talk about Wynn like he's a finesse player, and while he certainly uses his movement skills to be a better tackle, it isn't like he's a weakling out there. Wynn is strong enough to redirect his man, and he's strong enough to move the pile. I like it that, unlike Hernandez, Wynn could be a candidate to replace Dotson on the outside, if he proves that he has the pass blocking chops, which he certainly did in college. I also really like that Wynn offers A+ pass blocking ability on the interior of the offensive line, and he could be relied on to handle his man 1-on-1. If Isaiah Wynn got a bit stronger and played through the whistle more consistently, he could be the next Marshal Yanda.

Here he is versus Alabama in the National Championship:



While Hernandez scores top marks as an interior run blocker, he loses to Wynn just about everywhere else. It comes down to personal preference, obviously, but I think that Wynn is a damned good offensive lineman, and if both were available in the second round and we had to pick either one, I'd chose Wynn in a heartbeat. Wynn would do better in space, on screens, and offers the ability to play just about anywhere on the line, while also being the better pass blocker, keeping Winston's jersey clean and his body healthy.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:53 am

I like both, but ya, two different guys. I think there's a better chance Hernandez makes it to our 2nd but probably unlikely for either.

Listening to Licht at the combine, he reiterated my belief that the strength of this draft is the interior oline. He also didn't exactly give Sweezy a vote of confidence.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:55 am

Hernandez is obviously a great road grater, but Dlinemen are so athletic in the NFL I have concerns about him in pass protection. His feet are not great and his arms are short. I think he's going to struggle on obvious passing downs vs the length and athleticism of NFL Dlinemen.

Just saw Quinton Nelson's combine measurements, OMG.. As if his tape wasn't already enough, the guy is a prototype. 6'5" w/ 34" arms and a 6'11" wingspan, and damn near 11" hands. For those not familiar with ideal measurables for linemen anything less than 33" is a concern for arm length and small hands (less than 9.5") are not ideal.

If he's there at 7 it will be difficult to pass.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:27 am

Most Left Tackles would be happy with that.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Phantom Phenom » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:00 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Hernandez is obviously a great road grater, but Dlinemen are so athletic in the NFL I have concerns about him in pass protection. His feet are not great and his arms are short. I think he's going to struggle on obvious passing downs vs the length and athleticism of NFL Dlinemen.

Just saw Quinton Nelson's combine measurements, OMG.. As if his tape wasn't already enough, the guy is a prototype. 6'5" w/ 34" arms and a 6'11" wingspan, and damn near 11" hands. For those not familiar with ideal measurables for linemen anything less than 33" is a concern for arm length and small hands (less than 9.5") are not ideal.

If he's there at 7 it will be difficult to pass.




THIS
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:09 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Most Left Tackles would be happy with that.


Nelson reminds me if better version of Zach Martin. Martin played LT in college and transitioned to RG in the NFL and quickly became the premier RG in the league.

Nelson has been at Guard and that is his best position imo, but I agree he has all the traits to play Tackle.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:32 am

Which center fits our scheme the best Frank Ragnow or James Daniels?
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:47 am

Who was instrumental in making JR Sweezy a offensive guard?
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:09 pm

How many of these offensive tackles are ready to go right now?
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:08 pm

Jordan Mailata? Left tackle and short yardage back.
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Re: Draft Watch: OL

Postby Truck-a-Saurus » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:19 pm

I can think of worse ways to burn a 7th rounder. Dude is a massive athlete, but you'd have to stash him for at least a year, he's been learning American Football for a matter of months. Maybe he could come on to block kicks?

Can't be worse than drafting another fullback we'll never use.
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