Draft Watch: Running Backs

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:06 pm

Kid can cut, especially at the POA..(and he'll need to able to do so running behind this OL)...

1000 yards on just 168 carries..damn impressive...

Not afraid to lower the shoulder either...AND he's got a nice little set of hands..

Not the flashiest choice, but I'd be down with it..
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 pm

He's not a stud. Don't bother.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:29 pm

Wadley annoyed me.

He would have junk run after junk run and then blow up in the 4th quarter.

I just dont care for his game.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:44 pm

Cheb wrote:Every draft year, I closely follow the walterfootball prospect visits tracker. Basically, they take all the information they hear about what team is meeting with what prospect and when, then compile it into a grand list. It's as close as we mere mortals can get to who the Bucs are actually interested in, and it's a close approximation of who they actually draft. Every year for the past four years, at least two of the guys we drafted were on that list. I can go back through my prior posts to nail who exactly they were, but suffice to say it's as close to reliable as we can get, in my opinion.

Take a guess on who the only running back on that list is. Go on, guess who it is.

You're wrong.

It's Akrum Wadley from Iowa. He's been a thorn in the Big Ten's side his whole career. He has juice for days, a jitterbug who can create yards for himself with his wiggle and burst. Yeah, he's a bit small, so yeah, he isn't going to be an everydown back, but he'd be a great member of the rotation and I'd love to see him in Tampa. On his better snaps, he looks like Le'veon Bell's kid brother.

At the combine, he ran a 4.54 40 yard dash, with 12 bench reps and a 32" vertical leap. I would have expected him to test far better than that, given his on-field abilities, and if he falls to the fourth I think he would represent great value.


Makes sense. However, you have to dig a bit deeper to see a few idiosyncrasies. Scrolling through the other teams, it looks like Wadley was the only one a lot of them talked to, all at the Senior Bowl. It looks like Wadley is more a product of opportunity than being a guy teams are focused on. Still, this is definitely something I'll keep an eye on.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Nano » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:55 pm

Could be something potentially. Every year we kind of tip one of our picks by meeting with him every chance we get, constantly mentioning him, and bringing him in for a thousand workouts. Last year it was Godwin, and the year before it was Vitale(and 2015 is obvious lol). So far, we've only met with everyone once, so I'm not sure if it's an indicator of deep interest just yet.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:41 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Doctor wrote:Well, idk about winning records. There's so many other factors that go into that. The same RB can go to the Seahawks and be a winner but also go to the Browns and be a loser. But crack 1000? I'd say yes. How many rookie RB cracked 1000 total this year? Like 4 or 5? I think this class could match that.





2 - Hunt and Fournette

When did receiving yards stop counting? Is Kamara less of stud RB because he didn't get his number "on the ground"?
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:52 am

Right now I've got it

1st Round
1. Barkley
2nd Round
2. Derrius Guice
3. Sony Michel
3rd Round
4. Ronald Jones
5. Nick Chubb
6. Rashaad Penny

I'll be massively disapointed if we enter Day 3 of the draft without one of those 6 guys as Bucs. I think Round 2 is where it happens. If Michel and/or Guice are on the board, we can't pass on them. If they are gone, then we can't afford to miss on the next 3 guys.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:22 am

Nano wrote:Could be something potentially. Every year we kind of tip one of our picks by meeting with him every chance we get, constantly mentioning him, and bringing him in for a thousand workouts. Last year it was Godwin, and the year before it was Vitale(and 2015 is obvious lol). So far, we've only met with everyone once, so I'm not sure if it's an indicator of deep interest just yet.



I just listened to a Keotter interview a few days ago and he said that he places the highest value on team visits, more than combine results or short interviews at other venues. He loves getting guys in town and running them through drills, seeing how the retain plays after a few hours. If there is a listing of who we had in for visits before the draft, I wonder how many of them we drafted.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:40 am

Doctor wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:



2 - Hunt and Fournette

When did receiving yards stop counting? Is Kamara less of stud RB because he didn't get his number "on the ground"?



I guess you've given Lamar Jackson some thought then?
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 am

terrytate wrote:
Nano wrote:Could be something potentially. Every year we kind of tip one of our picks by meeting with him every chance we get, constantly mentioning him, and bringing him in for a thousand workouts. Last year it was Godwin, and the year before it was Vitale(and 2015 is obvious lol). So far, we've only met with everyone once, so I'm not sure if it's an indicator of deep interest just yet.



I just listened to a Keotter interview a few days ago and he said that he places the highest value on team visits, more than combine results or short interviews at other venues. He loves getting guys in town and running them through drills, seeing how the retain plays after a few hours. If there is a listing of who we had in for visits before the draft, I wonder how many of them we drafted.


Someone (maybe Cheb) said we have drafted 1 player from team visits each year. I’ll look for a list and post it here.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:22 am

I cant think of any that meant something.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:10 pm

Really, REALLY hoping we take Kalen Ballage...I thin he's gonna be my later round draftcrush this year..
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Ballage is a nice gamble... if we somehow end up entering Day 3 again without having taken an RB...

But this position is just too damn crucial to this season, this offence, this franchise... to be gambling on another smaller school Day 3 guy with nice combine numbers again.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:23 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Ballage is a nice gamble... if we somehow end up entering Day 3 again without having taken an RB...

But this position is just too damn crucial to this season, this offence, this franchise... to be gambling on another smaller school Day 3 guy with nice combine numbers again.


This RB class has alot of depth. I agree the Bucs need to address RB, but DT, DE, CB, OG are all just as high, if not higher needs so if the Bucs don't trade down and pick up any extra day 2 picks I wouldn't be surprised or upset if the Bucs didn't draft a RB til day 3.

The value at RB will be higher on day 3 than it will be at those other position imo. Guys like Freeman, Ballage, Scarborough, etc could fall. Plus there are some smallish type of 3rd down RBs like Phillip Lindsay, Roc Thomas, Nyheim Hines that would be available round 5-6. So the Bucs could double up at RB on day 3 since there is only 2 RBs (Barber-Rodgers) on the roster currently.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:01 am

While I would also like to walk away from Day 2 with a RB, I wouldn't be too upset depending on what we drafted. Could be we really bolster the lines or something. In which case a day 3 RB and a FA/cast off like say Jeremy Hill.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:27 am

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Ballage is a nice gamble... if we somehow end up entering Day 3 again without having taken an RB...

But this position is just too damn crucial to this season, this offence, this franchise... to be gambling on another smaller school Day 3 guy with nice combine numbers again.


This RB class has alot of depth. I agree the Bucs need to address RB, but DT, DE, CB, OG are all just as high, if not higher needs so if the Bucs don't trade down and pick up any extra day 2 picks I wouldn't be surprised or upset if the Bucs didn't draft a RB til day 3.

The value at RB will be higher on day 3 than it will be at those other position imo. Guys like Freeman, Ballage, Scarborough, etc could fall. Plus there are some smallish type of 3rd down RBs like Phillip Lindsay, Roc Thomas, Nyheim Hines that would be available round 5-6. So the Bucs could double up at RB on day 3 since there is only 2 RBs (Barber-Rodgers) on the roster currently.



While you are right in a vacuum, I rate RB pretty high on the list. We will be better off by finishing the offense and that means we need a back. It doesn't have to be Barkley but we need talented young legs, likely no later than the 4th. This of course is assuming we address the OL strongly, either in FA with a guy like Norwell or by drafting Nelson at 7. Getting that new back to carry drives, make people respect play action and serve in the passing game will make this the top 5 offense we though we were getting last year, and that can carry a defense
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:37 am

terrytate wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
This RB class has alot of depth. I agree the Bucs need to address RB, but DT, DE, CB, OG are all just as high, if not higher needs so if the Bucs don't trade down and pick up any extra day 2 picks I wouldn't be surprised or upset if the Bucs didn't draft a RB til day 3.

The value at RB will be higher on day 3 than it will be at those other position imo. Guys like Freeman, Ballage, Scarborough, etc could fall. Plus there are some smallish type of 3rd down RBs like Phillip Lindsay, Roc Thomas, Nyheim Hines that would be available round 5-6. So the Bucs could double up at RB on day 3 since there is only 2 RBs (Barber-Rodgers) on the roster currently.



While you are right in a vacuum, I rate RB pretty high on the list. We will be better off by finishing the offense and that means we need a back. It doesn't have to be Barkley but we need talented young legs, likely no later than the 4th. This of course is assuming we address the OL strongly, either in FA with a guy like Norwell or by drafting Nelson at 7. Getting that new back to carry drives, make people respect play action and serve in the passing game will make this the top 5 offense we though we were getting last year, and that can carry a defense


You know what I think of when people say, "Finish the offense?" I think of a hood ornament, which is what you buy when you've rebuild the powertrain. We should still be under the hood doing that.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:01 pm

MJW wrote:
terrytate wrote:

While you are right in a vacuum, I rate RB pretty high on the list. We will be better off by finishing the offense and that means we need a back. It doesn't have to be Barkley but we need talented young legs, likely no later than the 4th. This of course is assuming we address the OL strongly, either in FA with a guy like Norwell or by drafting Nelson at 7. Getting that new back to carry drives, make people respect play action and serve in the passing game will make this the top 5 offense we though we were getting last year, and that can carry a defense


You know what I think of when people say, "Finish the offense?" I think of a hood ornament, which is what you buy when you've rebuild the powertrain. We should still be under the hood doing that.



I agree, which is why included the provision about seriously addressing the Oline, which I expect to happen. With the amount of weapons Jameis has, all we really need is some blocking and a decent back. Nelson alone might be enough the get the Oline up to a competent level. If we draft Nelson AND sign Norwell....holy tapdancing Moses.

We do need that back though. I like Barber but he has limitations and I don't want to go into a season with so little in the RB Corp. We don't need a high round pick, I expect there to be real talent in th 3rd or 4th. My guy was Nick Chubb, but I think he may have used the combine to get out of my preferred price range.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:55 am

terrytate wrote:
MJW wrote:
You know what I think of when people say, "Finish the offense?" I think of a hood ornament, which is what you buy when you've rebuild the powertrain. We should still be under the hood doing that.



I agree, which is why included the provision about seriously addressing the Oline, which I expect to happen. With the amount of weapons Jameis has, all we really need is some blocking and a decent back. Nelson alone might be enough the get the Oline up to a competent level. If we draft Nelson AND sign Norwell....holy tapdancing Moses.

We do need that back though. I like Barber but he has limitations and I don't want to go into a season with so little in the RB Corp. We don't need a high round pick, I expect there to be real talent in th 3rd or 4th. My guy was Nick Chubb, but I think he may have used the combine to get out of my preferred price range.

I think you are really underestimating the OL. Our biggest weakness is LG where Pamphile has not stepped up to where he needs to be. Other than that all the other positions are pretty set. Dotson was quietly having a great season that no one noticed. Ali showed a lot of development at the center position and that he can really be a star there if he fixes his snaps. Sweezy was rusty early on but was one of our best OL closing the season. Enough has been said about Smith, so you are on whatever side you are on, but no matter what side we all know OBP isn't moving on from him at LT. All these guys average like a B and you don't move on from that "just because you want better", you only do so when you are pretty sure you have something better in hand already, which we don't.

Ya'll need to some to grips that the OL isn't going to be revamped like some of you think/hope.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:36 pm

Watched a lot of film of Ronald Jones, Chubb and Michel recently due to the mock draft thread...

I gotta say, out of nowhere I fell in love with Ronald Jones. He really reminds me of a bulkier Warrick Dunn. He's got phenomenal vision and balance, and has that dirty jump cut - he kind of hops around without pussyfooting around - and he keeps his head on a swivel, which leads him to, just like Dunn did, managing to find ways to fall forward, despite being relatively small. Jones just has that special something watching him run, that's hard to quantify, but it's a pleasure watching him run - you just get the feeling that he's out there taking every last inch that's available - he's just a complete natural with the ball.

Chubb looks labored running, and doesn't really show much of an ability to get something that's not there. Michel was a lot of fun to watch though, would love to see him in a Bucs uniform. He and Chubb really benefited from some wide-open holes though, and I'm not sure how much of that he's going to get with the Bucs
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:39 am

beardmcdoug wrote:Watched a lot of film of Ronald Jones, Chubb and Michel recently due to the mock draft thread...

I gotta say, out of nowhere I fell in love with Ronald Jones. He really reminds me of a bulkier Warrick Dunn. He's got phenomenal vision and balance, and has that dirty jump cut - he kind of hops around without pussyfooting around - and he keeps his head on a swivel, which leads him to, just like Dunn did, managing to find ways to fall forward, despite being relatively small. Jones just has that special something watching him run, that's hard to quantify, but it's a pleasure watching him run - you just get the feeling that he's out there taking every last inch that's available - he's just a complete natural with the ball.

Chubb looks labored running, and doesn't really show much of an ability to get something that's not there. Michel was a lot of fun to watch though, would love to see him in a Bucs uniform. He and Chubb really benefited from some wide-open holes though, and I'm not sure how much of that he's going to get with the Bucs


I think Jones needs the right situation. He strikes me as a ZBS guy. I could see him being successful behind an athletic offensive line. If you asked me which 2nd/3rd round back is most likely to be this year's Hunt, I'd say Jones. But I'm not 100% sure he'd be a good fit here.

Chubb is old school. For you older folks, if you remember guys like Barry Word, or Barry Foster, or Gerald Riggs, that's who he reminds me of. Block him for 2, he gets you 4. If you want a Youtube darling, he's not that guy. If you want to be calling plays at 2nd and 5 or 3rd and 2, he's your guy.

Michel is going to be really, really good. I'd comp him to Clinton Portis.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:04 am

In terms of the Day 2 guys...

The more I watch Penny, the more I think he's this years Hunt- Senior Bowl breakout and all. Hunt had stickum on his hands that meant he never dropped the ball carrying or on receptions. Penny aint quite that reliable but he's more explosive than Hunt. I think he's going higher than you guys think. Mel Kiper just said that he could be the 2nd running back off the board. PFF thinks he's a 1st rounder. There's alot to like about him once you look deep into it. He has a rare combination of power, speed, quickness, and vision. I think the biggest knock on him is that he was a late bloomer.

Michel to me is this years Kamara. I don't know if he can be the bellcow, but he's going to be a really nasty weapon. If you're 100% sold on Peyton Barber being duo worthy, Michel makes a ton of sense.

Chubb I could see being Frank Gore. Everyones kind of underrating him because of an injury, but I suspect he's going to have a long and respected career. His combine was super impressive. I'm not a big combine guy, but for a guy who's explosiveness was questioned after an injury, it was huge for him.

Kerryon Johnson and Ronald Jones I just can't get a read on. They certainly have some special qualities, but then other times it looks like they can be knocked over by a breeze. They both run weird too. Both to me are boom or bust. They could be CJ2K or they could be one and done contract wise. If we end up drafting either, I'll look into them more but for now they are question marks for me. The fact neither could go at the combine only clouds things further.

Freeman is basically a Peyton Barber clone, so not sure the advantage in drafting him.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:13 am

real bucs fan wrote:In terms of the Day 2 guys...

The more I watch Penny, the more I think he's this years Hunt- Senior Bowl breakout and all. Hunt had stickum on his hands that meant he never dropped the ball carrying or on receptions. Penny aint quite that reliable but he's more explosive than Hunt. I think he's going higher than you guys think. Mel Kiper just said that he could be the 2nd running back off the board. PFF thinks he's a 1st rounder. There's alot to like about him once you look deep into it. He has a rare combination of power, speed, quickness, and vision. I think the biggest knock on him is that he was a late bloomer.

Michel to me is this years Kamara. I don't know if he can be the bellcow, but he's going to be a really nasty weapon. If you're 100% sold on Peyton Barber being duo worthy, Michel makes a ton of sense.

Chubb I could see being Frank Gore. Everyones kind of underrating him because of an injury, but I suspect he's going to have a long and respected career. His combine was super impressive. I'm not a big combine guy, but for a guy who's explosiveness was questioned after an injury, it was huge for him.

Kerryon Johnson and Ronald Jones I just can't get a read on. They certainly have some special qualities, but then other times it looks like they can be knocked over by a breeze. They both run weird too. Both to me are boom or bust. They could be CJ2K or they could be one and done contract wise. If we end up drafting either, I'll look into them more but for now they are question marks for me. The fact neither could go at the combine only clouds things further.

Freeman is basically a Peyton Barber clone, so not sure the advantage in drafting him.


I don't like Penny. He has two traits I'm not a fan of - he runs high, and he short steps. High runners take a lot of big hits. They fumble a lot. They have trouble staying healthy. It's a really short list of great NFL backs who ran high. Short steppers leave yards on the table. Michael Pittman could have been one of the best backs in the league if he'd been a strider. Instead he ran like he was doing a tire drill. So does Penny.

Michel is just going to be good. It's honestly that simple. He's an effortless runner with vision, speed, and agility.

The Chubb/Gore comparison is fair. I think Chubb has more natural talent than Gore, but Gore ran hard every down for 13 years and stayed healthy. It's a MUCH shorter list of backs who did that than the list of naturally talented guys.

I'm not much of a Freeman fan. I think he's a backup in the league. A poor man's Jeremy Hill, maybe. I've got him as a 4th rounder.

Kerryon Johnson is a guy. I think he could be good. But he's not special. Block for him and put him behind a good passing game, he'll be successful.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:23 am

I guess we'll disagree on Penny. I think the thing to keep in mind with Penny, is that his o-line was frigging terrible- and he still led the nation in rushing. Led the nation in broken tackles too. When I watch him, I see a guy who can navigate, create, and finish runs. His vision is superb. So is his size/speed/strength/quicks combo. At the end of the day if you have those qualities, and you've got toughness, you're going to be really good at running the ball.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Stephenip12 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:09 pm

I am on the Royce Freeman bandwagon. Early 2nd round talent that will get pushed down to the late 2nd or early 3rd due to how deep this running back class is. Reminds me of a young Jonathan Stewart.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:11 pm

Stephenip12 wrote:I am on the Royce Freeman bandwagon. Early 2nd round talent that will get pushed down to the late 2nd or early 3rd due to how deep this running back class is. Reminds me of a young Jonathan Stewart.


I'd rather take Freeman in the 3rd than trade up in round 2 to draft Penny. And I like Penny.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:32 pm

Stephenip12 wrote:I am on the Royce Freeman bandwagon. Early 2nd round talent that will get pushed down to the late 2nd or early 3rd due to how deep this running back class is. Reminds me of a young Jonathan Stewart.


I like Royce also. Wouldn't hate it if we drafted him early 3rd. More athletic than he's given credit for and wasn't used all the ways he can excel imo while in college.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:52 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Stephenip12 wrote:I am on the Royce Freeman bandwagon. Early 2nd round talent that will get pushed down to the late 2nd or early 3rd due to how deep this running back class is. Reminds me of a young Jonathan Stewart.


I like Royce also. Wouldn't hate it if we drafted him early 3rd. More athletic than he's given credit for and wasn't used all the ways he can excel imo while in college.


I was on, now I'm off...

Kalen Ballage all the way now..
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:22 pm

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:38 pm

The things that scare me about Freeman are the amount of punishment he's taken already, and the fact he's a big physical back, and I already like Peyton Barber in that role. I want to add a guy who brings some juice to our backfield.

Mayock released his top 5 RBs post combine, and he's got essentially the same list as me:

1. Barkley
2. Guice
3. Michel
4. Jones
T-5. Penny
T-5. Chubb

Really hoping for 1 of those guys.
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