Draft Watch: Running Backs

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:39 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
yeah not him lol


Then who? We don't have any other diminutive backs on this team.


yeah, sorry I went back and edited, was referring to Peyton Barber - yeah, I guess 5'11 225 isn't exactly diminutive - he just looks relatively small out there. Certainly smaller than guys like Fournette, Ajayi, Henry, Murray. Hell he even looks smaller than Mark Ingram to me, despite being an inch taller and 5-10 lbs heavier
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:40 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Haven't seen much mention of Tennessee RB John Kelly.

He will be a day 3 guy, but someone that was being touted as one of the better RBs in the SEC early in the season before the wheels came off up in Knoxville.

He runs much bigger than his 5'9" 205lb frame suggests and has some Kareem Hunt qualities imo.



yeah buddy -- now that dude can tote the rock

although I don't know if he's a great compliment to the "diminutive-size hard running RB" we've already have... we almost need somebody with either lights out speed or a big banger like Bo Scarborough




Meh, taking the RBF approach we go to have a game changer that puts this offence into outer space. That was that guys entire career, the clip with my guy who has to be the BPA in my opinion runs for a first down every time he touches the ball and its only for one game. This guy is hard to tackle and will break arm tackles all day long, defensive backfields will shake knowing they have to attempt to bring him down.

Its a sure fire guarantee that Winstons turnovers will go down because of having this beast for a running back...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:42 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Then who? We don't have any other diminutive backs on this team.


yeah, sorry I went back and edited, was referring to Peyton Barber - yeah, I guess 5'11 225 isn't exactly diminutive - he just looks relatively small out there.


Yea none of our backs are small. Not even Quizz, who's still about 210 at only 5-6. Kelly would be a nice back to add here IMO.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:42 am

mdb1958 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
yeah buddy -- now that dude can tote the rock

although I don't know if he's a great compliment to the "diminutive-size hard running RB" we've already have... we almost need somebody with either lights out speed or a big banger like Bo Scarborough




Meh, taking the RBF approach we go to have a game changer that puts this offence into outer space. That was that guys entire career, the clip with my guy who has to be the BPA in my opinion runs for a first down every time he touches the ball and its only for one game. This guy is hard to tackle and will break arm tackles all day long, defensive backfields will shake knowing they have to attempt to bring him down.

Its a sure fire guarantee that Winstons turnovers will go down because of having this beast for a running back...


You talking about Barkley?
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:45 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:


Meh, taking the RBF approach we go to have a game changer that puts this offence into outer space. That was that guys entire career, the clip with my guy who has to be the BPA in my opinion runs for a first down every time he touches the ball and its only for one game. This guy is hard to tackle and will break arm tackles all day long, defensive backfields will shake knowing they have to attempt to bring him down.

Its a sure fire guarantee that Winstons turnovers will go down because of having this beast for a running back...


You talking about Barkley?



Who the hell is Barkley, I'm talking about Marc Jones.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:52 am

mdb1958 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20171026/riverside-grad-marc-jones-of-gannon-sheds-30-pounds-leads-nation-in-rushing-for-all-divisions


This guy used to weigh 260 lbs. He rushed for 355 yards in this game.


http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20171 ... -divisions



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjiyp7c0uHYAhUFM6wKHRpfCmAQuAIIJzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2F235186368&usg=AOvVaw1DGdjWVesP6TFEdB2H4Cwr


lmao!!! dude did you even watch that video????
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:59 am

A few times.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:02 am

Did you read the story?



He had 1725 yards in 8 games.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:06 am

mdb1958 wrote:Did you read the story?



He had 1725 yards in 8 games.


In the same division Danny Woodhead ran for 2,756 yards in 1 season...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:11 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Did you read the story?



He had 1725 yards in 8 games.


In the same division Danny Woodhead ran for 2,756 yards in 1 season...
Gotta wonder how Woodhead got his break. The Jets had him first.


The only reason he lost the 2017 title to Penny was his season was over at 11 games
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:16 am

Well what did you think? Let an NFL strength and conditioning guy get a hold of him and he could be downright scary to stop.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:35 am

my main problem is that his vision has been developed going against guys that are terrible football, who don't play with as much fundamentals, and who take terrible angles. The transition between what he sees on the field right now, compared to the way NFL defensive players move is going to be too far of a gap to jump. Danny Woodhead was fast enough to have players having to react to him. This dude will be reacting to what the defense shows him
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:53 am

beardmcdoug wrote:my main problem is that his vision has been developed going against guys that are terrible football, who don't play with as much fundamentals, and who take terrible angles. The transition between what he sees on the field right now, compared to the way NFL defensive players move is going to be too far of a gap to jump. Danny Woodhead was fast enough to have players having to react to him. This dude will be reacting to what the defense shows him



I didnt expect him to average over 200 yards a game in the NFL This was a 5'11" 260 lb fat boy that transformed himself in one year.

Here is his season

20-201
16-153
22-174
27-355
24-154
23-268
19-247
30-173
20-92
31-188
37-194

The last four games teams either tightened up on him or he wore down, as his yards per carry went down a lot. 29 negative yards in 341 attempts.


Thanks for your thoughts on him. Note: I've been looking for the body types that I thought could hold up in the NFL.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:41 pm

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:33 pm

mdb1958 wrote:I think this guy would be on that chart.



https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/953273408728518656/photo/1



I was just looking at some Rashad Penny. Not so impressed. He's got good vision but when people actually get a hand on him he goes down. In the NFL, he won't be quick enough to get around people, they will get hands on him and I think he'll go down.

I finally got around to watching some Barkley. That dude IS scary. I haven't seen much but in what is there I didn't see an excessive tendency to bounce outside. He was running up the middle with authority. He's definitely at the top of my RB board, but it's still not enough to advocate taking him at 7, assuming he's there to take in the first place.

In my ideal world, we get Chubb in the first and the best guard we can find in the 2nd. That means we start looking at RB's and CB's in the third. I like Nick Chubb. He's got good size, balance and plenty of speed. He's shown up in the big games and has consistently produced. He can run between the tackles and has the explosiveness to get chunk yardage.

DreadNaught wrote:
terrytate wrote:

I notice you are leaving out how having a top 2 offensive line factors in. Want to know why the Cowboys took a big step back this year? There are several reasons, one of the largest is that Tyron Smith was hurt most of the year, as were several of his linemates. Even when they were in, they were rarely near 100%.


Want to run the ball? Build a line.


I've been doing some light reading, apparently there were a couple of games last year where Doug Martin had more yards after contact than he had net yards rushing. How the hell does that even happen and why would anyone think Barkley is going to fix it?


Lastly, why is THIS in the DE thread lol.


Read more than 1 post, nobody is saying having a strong Oline isn't beneficial.

But this idea that you can't draft a RB early until everything else is already in place doesn't make sense to me. If a team has shitty RBs (which the Bucs do if Barber is our best option) and a RB is the top graded prospect on the board it's foolish to pass on him imo. That logic doesn't apply to any other position, yet seems to be accepted by some when it comes to RB.

The Jaguars were tops in the NFL in rushing this season after many clowned them for taking a RB at 4th overall. No way a perennial losing team like the Jags should waste a premium pick like that on a RB when they hadn't addressed the Oline first, amirite?

Fwiw Barkley would be my 3rd or 4th option for the Bucs after Chubb and Fitzpatrick. I've stated numerous times defense is the priority imo and those are elite prospects as well. I'm just not against the idea of Barkley if the board falls that way like many seem to be. He provides a major upgrade on a very weak depth chart at RB for a team that needs to address their abilty to run the damn ball.

I think this thread got derailed last night and I've certainly not helped getting it back on track. If someone replies to this I'll quote it and pull it over to the RB thread.

In regards to DE, I don't see Davemport making it past the top 20. The buzz is already building for that kid and it's just going to snowball as the process plays out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 pick tbh.


I don't disagree much. I favor getting a back as the last piece simply because they typcally have the shortest shelf life and take the least amount of time to produce in the NFL. That's ideal world thinking, and doesn't always apply to who falls to you in the draft. Barkley is high on my own board, but I think there will be players who are higher AND fill a bigger need, which is why I don't advocate RB at 7. We do need more talent at RB but this isn't the year or situation for us to spend a top 10 pick on one.

As to Fournette and the Jags, you really that they actually have a decent Oline there right? Now, I just went to Football Outsiders to get something to back that up, they had the Jags line at #13 for run blocking. and 5th at pass protection. The catch, they have us at 16 in run blocking AND pass protection. I'm not sure what to make of that, given how poor our line looked so often. Perhaps Keotter is right and our line is not so far from being good as it seems. I don't see it though.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:43 pm

Feel like I've read this before/somewhere else...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm

I'm looking at this year and back 3 years for all the big name backs and the only player I have found with fewer negative rushing yards than Marc Jones is Sonny Michel

Marc has 23 for his best year of yards

Sonny has 13 for his best year of yards

Zeke 47

Fournette 92

Cook 80

Barkley 122


I probably could find more lower than 23 yards but thats damn good for a Buc player...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:51 pm

Barkley would get ate up behind our line of scrimmage. In his 3 year college career he's lost 329 yards.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:57 pm

Everybody curb your excitement, he's only a junior, plus I know you cant get excited unless their high draft picks. Free players are fodder.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:30 pm

Terry have you looked at the NCAA stat link I put up.

I dont know what to say about Penny other than he has broke off more big runs than all the 1a guys. Or it looks that way.

Chubb dont break off many big runs at all. A 55, and a 50 the rest go down to the 20's and 30's.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:19 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Terry have you looked at the NCAA stat link I put up.

I dont know what to say about Penny other than he has broke off more big runs than all the 1a guys. Or it looks that way.

Chubb dont break off many big runs at all. A 55, and a 50 the rest go down to the 20's and 30's.


The best team Penny played all year was Stanford. Chubb played roughly half his games against teams that finished in the top 25, many of the rest were SEC teams that would blow the Aztecs out of the water. Chubb still averaged 6.0 YPC.

Still, I am not tied to the idea of Chubb. I threw his name out because he's a guy I like who should be on the board. There may be a better back to be had, but I don't think Penny is that guy.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:47 pm

Mdb, those are some interesting finds there, thanks homie
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:59 pm

terrytate wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Terry have you looked at the NCAA stat link I put up.

I dont know what to say about Penny other than he has broke off more big runs than all the 1a guys. Or it looks that way.

Chubb dont break off many big runs at all. A 55, and a 50 the rest go down to the 20's and 30's.


The best team Penny played all year was Stanford. Chubb played roughly half his games against teams that finished in the top 25, many of the rest were SEC teams that would blow the Aztecs out of the water. Chubb still averaged 6.0 YPC.

Still, I am not tied to the idea of Chubb. I threw his name out because he's a guy I like who should be on the board. There may be a better back to be had, but I don't think Penny is that guy.


Something else about Penny - he played in the same offense that allowed Donnell Pumphrey to break the NCAA rushing record. The same Donnell Pumphrey who was getting arm-tackled by 6th stringer corners last preseason.

Penny is going to bust, and bust hard. He has an awful style for NFL running. He dances behind the line, he short-steps like no back I've seen since Pittman, and for a bigger guy, he runs soft. I want nothing to do with him.

I had kind of opposite experiences with Chubb and Barkley. I was dubious of Chubb before I did my "deep dive," and in love with Barkley. Barkley, as RBF can tell you, I felt completely differently about after actually watching all his carries from the last 2 years. Chubb, I just watched this year because of his injury. I still think Michel will absolutely, positively be a better NFL running back. But I think Chubb could be a very good one if he ends up in the right place. He'd be a perfect fit for the Raiders, assuming Gruden is going to keep their power line intact.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:02 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Did you read the story?



He had 1725 yards in 8 games.


In the same division Danny Woodhead ran for 2,756 yards in 1 season...


Yeah, and then Danny Woodhead was complete tra-

Oh, no, wait. He's had a ten year career, accounting for 5,000 scrimmage yards, 300 catches, and 32 TDs, and is currently behind only Frank Gore (34) as the oldest active running back in the NFL (he's 32, and so are a few others.)

I don't know much about MDB's kid, but I wouldn't disqualify him based on his conference. Especially as a running back.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:05 am

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
In the same division Danny Woodhead ran for 2,756 yards in 1 season...


Yeah, and then Danny Woodhead was complete tra-

Oh, no, wait. He's had a ten year career, accounting for 5,000 scrimmage yards, 300 catches, and 32 TDs, and is currently behind only Frank Gore (34) as the oldest active running back in the NFL (he's 32, and so are a few others.)

I don't know much about MDB's kid, but I wouldn't disqualify him based on his conference. Especially as a running back.


Especially if we went all Jerry Jones with him and he ended up down here with his whole family as a undrafted free agent trying out for our team. Does the NCAA make D-II players declare by a certain date too?

Really doesnt matter who it is, if a running back is given a lane and breaks a tackle he going to get some yardage. Watching the highlights of that one game on him you would think that was his career best stuff till you look at his game by game results.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:28 am

beardmcdoug wrote:Mdb, those are some interesting finds there, thanks homie


Like I said, I think the link times out. I have saved or bookmarked it and still have to copy it minus the www and paste it back in google to bring it back up.

Although I dont know why Barkley has so much negative yardage, one of the better things about him is he looks like a 3 down back.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Sammich » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:09 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Although I dont know why Barkley has so much negative yardage.



It's his running style. When a back's game is almost entirely based on speed the other team either gets contain or they don't. Those types of runners have a lot of big plays, but they also get a lot of negative plays. Those types of runners put the offense in a rough spot- the running game can go the distance on any given play, but it's unreliable.

i think we would be much better off with someone that can grind out 4-5 yards every time they touch the ball. It may not be pretty or get all the highlights, but it keeps the chains moving and gives all the benefits that go with that. I would rather win ugly than lose pretty.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:58 am

Sammich wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
Although I dont know why Barkley has so much negative yardage.




i think we would be much better off with someone that can grind out 4-5 yards every time they touch the ball. It may not be pretty or get all the highlights, but it keeps the chains moving and gives all the benefits that go with that. I would rather win ugly than lose pretty.


This is EXACTLY what we need (imo)..

That's why I'm partial to the bigger, more physical backs...battering ram types...

We don't need to be in anymore 2nd and 12's, 3rd and 8's than we already are...

That being said, Guice would look real nice here doing what he does..

Guy runs with reckless abandon...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:19 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:Mdb, those are some interesting finds there, thanks homie


Like I said, I think the link times out. I have saved or bookmarked it and still have to copy it minus the www and paste it back in google to bring it back up.

Although I dont know why Barkley has so much negative yardage, one of the better things about him is he looks like a 3 down back.


I think everybody else thinks I directed them to that link to make them work :lol:
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:29 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
Like I said, I think the link times out. I have saved or bookmarked it and still have to copy it minus the www and paste it back in google to bring it back up.

Although I dont know why Barkley has so much negative yardage, one of the better things about him is he looks like a 3 down back.


I think


You shouldn't. Ever, *****.
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