Draft Watch: Running Backs

Dedicated to College Football and Draft discussion.
post

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:51 am

No running backs in the first four rounds - signed mdb.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 am

mdb1958 wrote:No running backs in the first four rounds - signed mdb.

So another McNichols... gotcha...
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 am

uscbucsfan wrote:MJW, when did you change? You said this mid-season in response to my criticism of him

MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.


LMAO! MJWing at it's finest.
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21376
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 453 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:29 am

real bucs fan wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:No running backs in the first four rounds - signed mdb.

So another McNichols... gotcha...



http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201311030 ... ab=analyze


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201311030 ... ab=analyze
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:37 am

mdb, that game is from 2013. Mike James is a guy no NFL team signed after the Bucs cut him and half of his career yards came from that game.

The Bucs RB depth chart needs to be overhauled. I'm not advocating for a RB at 7th overall, but for guy that follows the draft you know rounds 2-3 is where the value has been.

We need to upgrade the talent at RB significantly. Draft one on day 2 then double dip day 2 for another RB (assuming we don't add one in FA like McKinnon/Crowell/etc) in this deep class. We can retain Barber, and even Sims if we want and role with those 4 going into next season.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 10960
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 446 times
Been thanked: 466 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:43 am

Elliot was not a bounce it outside guy at OSU. Not by any means
Zarniwoop
 
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:23 pm
Has thanked: 114 times
Been thanked: 209 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:52 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Elliot was not a bounce it outside guy at OSU. Not by any means

He was as much as Barkley is. Generally speaking, big runs happen when the RB can get outside at the 2nd level and turn the corner on the safeties. It's not even a criticism. It's what big play RBs do.

Folks here are trying to say, Barkley CAN'T get the tough yards... CAN'T run up the middle... Comparing the guy to a player in McCaffery who weighs 40lbs less.... it's poppycock...
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:01 pm

DreadNaught wrote:mdb, that game is from 2013. Mike James is a guy no NFL team signed after the Bucs cut him and half of his career yards came from that game.

The Bucs RB depth chart needs to be overhauled. I'm not advocating for a RB at 7th overall, but for guy that follows the draft you know rounds 2-3 is where the value has been.

We need to upgrade the talent at RB significantly. Draft one on day 2 then double dip day 2 for another RB (assuming we don't add one in FA like McKinnon/Crowell/etc) in this deep class. We can retain Barber, and even Sims if we want and role with those 4 going into next season.


He's 26 - carried the ball 83 times total - and he is a ERFA on the Lions team right now- BUT they may not keep him.

Plus take what everybody is thinking with the Bucs and go the other way. More often than not you'll be right.

Ya'lls favorite saying after clamoring for something is "its a Bucs life"!


mdb - how to f a Buc fan up

answer - have him play fantasy football
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:05 pm

Ya we really should go after a RB the Lions don't want :lol: I"d honestly rather just roll with Dougie again that do that.

If you really want to be contrarian, jump on the RB train. RBs have become undervalued across the league...
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:07 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Folks here are trying to say, Barkley CAN'T get the tough yards... CAN'T run up the middle...


Who? What folks said that exactly?

I think there is big difference between saying Barkley can't do that, and having a concern that he doesn't 'move the pile' like he should at his size/strength in the way Zeke did/does.

I think it's a fair concern that you are extrapolating in something more. I'm confident Barkely will do this in the NFL b/c he'll learn he can't outrun defenses. I just wish I saw more of it in college is all.

I'm with you for the most part on Barkley and think he'll be a dynamite RB. But if you're drafting a 230lbs RB in the top 10 he needs to be able to get the tough yards and be able to consistently turn the 1 yard gains into 2-3yds and get more than what is there.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 10960
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 446 times
Been thanked: 466 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:16 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Folks here are trying to say, Barkley CAN'T get the tough yards... CAN'T run up the middle...


Who? What folks said that exactly?

I think there is big difference between saying Barkley can't do that, and having a concern that he doesn't 'move the pile' like he should at his size/strength in the way Zeke did/does.

I think it's a fair concern that you are extrapolating in something more. I'm confident Barkely will do this in the NFL b/c he'll learn he can't outrun defenses. I just wish I saw more of it in college is all.

I'm with you for the most part on Barkley and think he'll be a dynamite RB. But if you're drafting a 230lbs RB in the top 10 he needs to be able to get the tough yards and be able to consistently turn the 1 yard gains into 2-3yds and get more than what is there.

Well I'd consider comparing the guy to McCaffery, one of the worst inside runners in football, was saying that. Perhaps I read more into it than was there though.

Regardless, Barkley is going to be a superstar at the next level. I have more confidence saying that about him than I do for any other player in this draft. The guy can do it all and is a complete back. I think folks are underrating his power and ability inside because of how elite his receiving and home run hitting ability is.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:mdb, that game is from 2013. Mike James is a guy no NFL team signed after the Bucs cut him and half of his career yards came from that game.

The Bucs RB depth chart needs to be overhauled. I'm not advocating for a RB at 7th overall, but for guy that follows the draft you know rounds 2-3 is where the value has been.

We need to upgrade the talent at RB significantly. Draft one on day 2 then double dip day 2 for another RB (assuming we don't add one in FA like McKinnon/Crowell/etc) in this deep class. We can retain Barber, and even Sims if we want and role with those 4 going into next season.



We need one or two defensive ends, a defensive tackle, one or two cornerbacks, a safety, a guard and offensive tackle before we need any running back.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:22 pm

please argue that.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:26 pm

We need a lot of things, but the first round is for BPA. If Barkley is it, you take him.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:32 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:mdb, that game is from 2013. Mike James is a guy no NFL team signed after the Bucs cut him and half of his career yards came from that game.

The Bucs RB depth chart needs to be overhauled. I'm not advocating for a RB at 7th overall, but for guy that follows the draft you know rounds 2-3 is where the value has been.

We need to upgrade the talent at RB significantly. Draft one on day 2 then double dip day 2 for another RB (assuming we don't add one in FA like McKinnon/Crowell/etc) in this deep class. We can retain Barber, and even Sims if we want and role with those 4 going into next season.



We need one or two defensive ends,a defensive tackle, one or two cornerbacks, a safety, a guard and offensive tackle before we need any running back.


I disagree with most of that. I'll concede on CB, but if we re-sign McClain and Grimes I don't think CB is as desperate a need as RB. We'll see..

You seem to think the Bucs will be fine rolling into next season with a bunch of UDFAs at RB and Barber being the #1 guy. But I don't see it that way.

The Bucs running game has been very poor the past 2 seasons and while improving the Oline (LG mostly) would certainly help, so would upgrading that talent at RB. I like Barber, he gets what is there. But he is JAG and not much different than Mike James.

There is an extensive list of day 2 RBs who that are proving to be great value in the NFL. The hit rate in RBs in rounds 2-3 seems to be much better than waiting til day 3.

Alot of people seem to be of the mindset that any ole RB will due fine and totally dismiss the benefits of what good RB can do for a QB and defense in terms of making the opponent play more vanilla in an effort to stop the run in addition to how a prolific runner keeps his own defense rested by being able to move the chains consistently.

EDGE rush should be priority #1 imo for this team this offseason, followed by improving the run game as priority #2. We do the latter with an upgrade at LG and RB.

You win games in the NFL by being able run the ball in the 4th quarter and/or having your pass rush close out the game depending on what unit is on the field. The Bucs are very poor in both areas and it was the biggest reason we were 5-11 instead of competing for a playoff spot.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 10960
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 446 times
Been thanked: 466 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:39 pm

real bucs fan wrote:We need a lot of things, but the first round is for BPA. If Barkley is it, you take him.



If there was nothing else around but Barkley in the 2nd, I'd sell him. What would I get Swami? 2 or 3 picks this year and a couple next year?
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

We need one or two defensive ends,a defensive tackle, one or two cornerbacks, a safety, a guard and offensive tackle before we need any running back.


I disagree with most of that. I'll concede on CB, but if we re-sign McClain and Grimes I don't think CB is as desperate a need as RB. We'll see..

You seem to think the Bucs will be fine rolling into next season with a bunch of UDFAs at RB and Barber being the #1 guy. But I don't see it that way.

The Bucs running game has been very poor the past 2 seasons and while improving the Oline (LG mostly) would certainly help, so would upgrading that talent at RB. I like Barber, he gets what is there. But he is JAG and not much different than Mike James.

There is an extensive list of day 2 RBs who that are proving to be great value in the NFL. The hit rate in RBs in rounds 2-3 seems to be much better than waiting til day 3.

Alot of people seem to be of the mindset that any ole RB will due fine and totally dismiss the benefits of what good RB can do for a QB and defense in terms of making the opponent play more vanilla in an effort to stop the run in addition to how a prolific runner keeps his own defense rested by being able to move the chains consistently.

EDGE rush should be priority #1 imo for this team this offseason, followed by improving the run game as priority #2. We do the latter with an upgrade at LG and RB.

You win games in the NFL by being able run the ball in the 4th quarter and/or having your pass rush close out the game depending on what unit is on the field. The Bucs are very poor in both areas and it was the biggest reason we were 5-11 instead of competing for a playoff spot.




I think I got enough ammunition to just wait and see how it plays out.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:13 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I disagree with most of that. I'll concede on CB, but if we re-sign McClain and Grimes I don't think CB is as desperate a need as RB. We'll see..

You seem to think the Bucs will be fine rolling into next season with a bunch of UDFAs at RB and Barber being the #1 guy. But I don't see it that way.

The Bucs running game has been very poor the past 2 seasons and while improving the Oline (LG mostly) would certainly help, so would upgrading that talent at RB. I like Barber, he gets what is there. But he is JAG and not much different than Mike James.

There is an extensive list of day 2 RBs who that are proving to be great value in the NFL. The hit rate in RBs in rounds 2-3 seems to be much better than waiting til day 3.

Alot of people seem to be of the mindset that any ole RB will due fine and totally dismiss the benefits of what good RB can do for a QB and defense in terms of making the opponent play more vanilla in an effort to stop the run in addition to how a prolific runner keeps his own defense rested by being able to move the chains consistently.

EDGE rush should be priority #1 imo for this team this offseason, followed by improving the run game as priority #2. We do the latter with an upgrade at LG and RB.

You win games in the NFL by being able run the ball in the 4th quarter and/or having your pass rush close out the game depending on what unit is on the field. The Bucs are very poor in both areas and it was the biggest reason we were 5-11 instead of competing for a playoff spot.




I think I got enough ammunition to just wait and see how it plays out.


So you asked for someone to counter your argument and now are going to clam up? I'm disappointed..

What ammunition? Your argument is that Barber should be the lead RB next year and we shouldn't spend a draft pick before round 5 to address the depth behind him. Let me save you the suspense and let you know that is not how it will play out. The Bucs will either address RB in FA and/or draft one before the 5th round. You can bet your last bottle of whiskey on it.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 10960
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 446 times
Been thanked: 466 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:39 pm

man, I really enjoyed watching this. was pausing/slowing down to see what kind of holes/space Barber was working with. came away with: "our run blocking is hot dog ****". Barber is DEFINITELY getting more than he's given out there in this game. would really love to see us take Nelson in the first and pair him with a guy like Michel in the 2nd. I think Barber could really be a hoss if our run blocking was at least middle of the road or better. guy continually gets +2, 3 yards than is given to him out there. I'd say the screen at 1:28 is the only play he left yards on the field. Enjoy:










For contrast, here is every Jamaal Williams touch from that game, who also had 100 yds rushing. Look at the gaping holes and wide open lanes he's working with in this game:

User avatar
beardmcdoug
 
Posts: 2343
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:30 pm
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:man, I really enjoyed watching this. was pausing/slowing down to see what kind of holes/space Barber was working with. came away with: "our run blocking is hot dog ****". Barber is DEFINITELY getting more than he's given out there in this game. would really love to see us take Nelson in the first and pair him with a guy like Michel in the 2nd. I think Barber could really be a hoss if our run blocking was at least middle of the road or better. guy continually gets +2, 3 yards than is given to him out there. I'd say the screen at 1:28 is the only play he left yards on the field. Enjoy:










For contrast, here is every Jamaal Williams touch from that game, who also had 100 yds rushing. Look at the gaping holes and wide open lanes he's working with in this game:






http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/ ... l-williams



Uhh ------------- yeah. all we need is an edge rusher.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:04 pm

At most, Barber should be thought of as 1 half of a potential duo. At least, he should be thought of as a quality short yardage change of pace.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:17 pm

Did anyone see worse run blocking in the league than us?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts

Now if we are not constantly losing in every game we play you might see us run the ball more.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:35 pm

real bucs fan wrote:At most, Barber should be thought of as 1 half of a potential duo.


I'd be fine with that. I just don't want to go into next season with Barber-Sims-Quizz and some UDFA. NONE of those guys have any explosion capable of ripping off 10+ yd runs unless there is HUGE lane created for them. That is why a RB like Michel or Love would be coveted here. We need to upgrade the talent/athleticism at RB, even if we draft Nelson at 7 or sign a big name Guard in FA.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 10960
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 446 times
Been thanked: 466 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:58 pm

I think we were 31st for the fewest 10 yard runs and thats because 70% of the time your hit at or behind the line of scrimmage. Thats a guess, might be more than that. Running backs need a lane, Barber did well breaking tackles and I liked James because he always seemed to fall forward for a couple more yards.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:00 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:At most, Barber should be thought of as 1 half of a potential duo.


I'd be fine with that. I just don't want to go into next season with Barber-Sims-Quizz and some UDFA. NONE of those guys have any explosion capable of ripping off 10+ yd runs unless there is HUGE lane created for them. That is why a RB like Michel or Love would be coveted here. We need to upgrade the talent/athleticism at RB, even if we draft Nelson at 7 or sign a big name Guard in FA.

For sure, with you 100%. The only place we differ really is that I'd even be happy with Barkley at 7.

But we definitely need some speed and talent at RB, and for me that's either Barkley in round 1, or Michel/Love in round 2.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 771 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:16 pm

I can see our opposing defense now--------------- yep, they are much more fired up about blowing up a 1st or 2nd round rookie running back. I can hear the crowd in our own friggin stadium screaming with glee.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:51 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Did anyone see worse run blocking in the league than us?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts

Now if we are not constantly losing in every game we play you might see us run the ball more.


thanks for pointing me in that direction.

edit: moved
User avatar
beardmcdoug
 
Posts: 2343
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:30 pm
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:55 pm

mdb1958 wrote:I can see our opposing defense now--------------- yep, they are much more fired up about blowing up a 1st or 2nd round rookie running back. I can hear the crowd in our own friggin stadium screaming with glee.



This one should shut this place down for a few weeks.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:I can see our opposing defense now--------------- yep, they are much more fired up about blowing up a 1st or 2nd round rookie running back. I can hear the crowd in our own friggin stadium screaming with glee.



This one should shut this place down for a few weeks.


It always does, mdb. It always does....
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 21376
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 453 times

Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Super K » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:12 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

This one should shut this place down for a few weeks.


It always does, mdb. It always does....


Ha!
User avatar
Super K
 
Posts: 6296
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 181 times

PreviousNext

post

Return to College Football/Draft Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A Man's Part, Nano, theBKwhopper, Watchout4Bucs and 22 guests