Draft Watch: Running Backs

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:36 pm

Super K wrote:I agree RBF, it's how we get there where we differ..

Build that run game by drafting/signing a badass OL, not by spending a higher premium pick on a RB..

Now, with that being said I am fully on board with adding fresh legs/blood to our backfield as the Doug Martin experiment better damn well finally be over, Sims can't run worth **** and Quiz is nothing more than a nice change of pace guy.. however I do like how Barber runs..

My top 3 guys RBs for us this year are:

R. Freeman Oregon
Guy reminds me of vintage Michael Turner..runs hard, big bodied guy, lotta wear on the tires though

J. Adams ND
Another big guy, got progressively better over his career, has some nice speed

B. Scarborough Bama
May be my favorite RB, for us, in this class...runs like a man possessed..good speed in the open field, because of the talent in Bama's backfield, he wasn't run into the ground like some previous Tide RBs..


Edit: ****, this was in response to your previous post..should've quoted you, my bad..

For me, I do like Barber, I just would like to add some home run lighting to his thunder. As well, our offence has alot of size but not alot of speed (outside of the aging Jackson). Adding a RB with speed just seems to make sense. Part of the reason I love Love. But if we miss out on Love, I think Michel would be a nice fit.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Doctor » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:51 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:RBF, we have a ninth ranked offense and a last place defense


This is correct.

Besides, who cares if the other teams in our division have committees? If anything, this should galvanize a team to commit their draft resources to stopping them, not committing draft resources to copycat them.

It's correct, so what? What does fixing the defense have to do with evaluating running backs? Also, we were 9th in yards but we were like 20th in points, and last I checked points are what win games. 4 of the top 6 scoring offences are led by a young new RB.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:10 pm

What is you eval on this guy Doc.

Chase Edmonds , Fordham

and

Ralph Webb, Vanderbilt
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby terrytate » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:08 am

Doctor wrote:
Cheb wrote:
This is correct.

Besides, who cares if the other teams in our division have committees? If anything, this should galvanize a team to commit their draft resources to stopping them, not committing draft resources to copycat them.

It's correct, so what? What does fixing the defense have to do with evaluating running backs? Also, we were 9th in yards but we were like 20th in points, and last I checked points are what win games. 4 of the top 6 scoring offences are led by a young new RB.



We got a lot of the yards in garbage time, I don't place too much stock in that ninth ranking. Of those offenses led by a new hotness RB, how many have good Olines and QB's? Of those offenses, how many earning their ranking with their passing game more so than that new RB.

Looking over the playoff picture, I see only one team that has an offense that is truly driven by the running back...Jacksonville. You could make a case for Tennessee but those guys also have Mariota, the guy some think we should have taken over Winston.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We don't need to reach for a back just because others have had success taking one high. We need to fix this Oline before we are going to have consistent offensive success. We need to fix the defense if we are going to consistently win, especially in the postseason. We could use new legs, sure but not at the cost of other positions that will do more for us.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:13 am

Look at the teams that played this weekend. All 8 feature good to great backfields....
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Sammich » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:00 am

So I did some watching on Barkley and I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be. He is a great receiver and very fast, but like others have said he lacks the power you'd expect from a guy his size. Not every back needs to be a hammer, but an early first RB needs to be able to break a tackle here and there. He reminds me way more of McCaffrey than he does Gurley.

I think he would be best in a system that uses more ZBS and spread formations. I think our offense needs more of a power back to force defenses up to the line instead of spreading them out. I wouldn't mind us taking a back in the second or third, but I would prefer a guy more in the mold of Henry or Perine. I haven't looked into any other RBs this year so I have no idea if any fit that.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:47 pm

Sammich wrote:So I did some watching on Barkley and I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be. He is a great receiver and very fast, but like others have said he lacks the power you'd expect from a guy his size. Not every back needs to be a hammer, but an early first RB needs to be able to break a tackle here and there. He reminds me way more of McCaffrey than he does Gurley.

I think he would be best in a system that uses more ZBS and spread formations. I think our offense needs more of a power back to force defenses up to the line instead of spreading them out. I wouldn't mind us taking a back in the second or third, but I would prefer a guy more in the mold of Henry or Perine. I haven't looked into any other RBs this year so I have no idea if any fit that.



pretty much this.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Stephenip12 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:18 pm

I am really liking the running back from LSU and Oregon's Royce Freeman.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:00 am

Barkley is a bouncer. Give him a highway between the tackles, and he'll bounce outside anyway.

Do.
Not.
Want.

Guice is the truth. I don't want HIM at #7 either, mind you...but I have no doubt he'll have a better NFL career than Barkley.

Michel might end up having a better career than either of them. The Roger Craig is strong in him. 2,000 yards from scrimmage is in his future - more than once.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:02 am

I will ask again, Is Chase Edmonds damaged goods.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:16 am

MJW wrote:Barkley is a bouncer. Give him a highway between the tackles, and he'll bounce outside anyway.

Do.
Not.
Want.

Guice is the truth. I don't want HIM at #7 either, mind you...but I have no doubt he'll have a better NFL career than Barkley.

Michel might end up having a better career than either of them. The Roger Craig is strong in him. 2,000 yards from scrimmage is in his future - more than once.

This read like the scouting report of someone who's only watched highlight videos. You're wrong.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:13 am

Most of these guys remind me of
Bobby Rainey Jr.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:15 am

We can get Mike James back cheap prolly. Maybe even actually use him for his 4.5 a pop.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:20 am

Johnson, Devon RB 6'0" 238 Marshall


Bring in this guy for a workout.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:29 am

What percentage of running backs never get a 2nd contract? Anyone know.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:15 pm

MJW wrote:Barkley is a bouncer. Give him a highway between the tackles, and he'll bounce outside anyway.

Do.
Not.
Want.

Guice is the truth. I don't want HIM at #7 either, mind you...but I have no doubt he'll have a better NFL career than Barkley.

Michel might end up having a better career than either of them. The Roger Craig is strong in him. 2,000 yards from scrimmage is in his future - more than once.


You’re wrong on Barkley. Check out his OSU highlights. This wasn’t even a great game stats wise, but it shows that Barkley doesn’t have an issue running through the hole and bouncing AFTER. Check the run at 2:00.

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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 pm

Time will tell but I’m with MJW here. He may be a great RB but I don’t see him getting the tough yards on a consistent basis
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:54 pm

People are overanalyzing him. Happens every year...
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:58 pm

real bucs fan wrote:People are overanalyzing him. Happens every year...



I think you’ll find several more in the Big 10 thread that say the same thing. When PSU needed tough yards, he missed more than he made it.


I think he will be a good back in the NFL, I just don’t see him being transcendental
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:40 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:Barkley is a bouncer. Give him a highway between the tackles, and he'll bounce outside anyway.

Do.
Not.
Want.

Guice is the truth. I don't want HIM at #7 either, mind you...but I have no doubt he'll have a better NFL career than Barkley.

Michel might end up having a better career than either of them. The Roger Craig is strong in him. 2,000 yards from scrimmage is in his future - more than once.

This read like the scouting report of someone who's only watched highlight videos. You're wrong.


Or, a Big Ten fan who probably saw 20 of his games in college. Either one.

He'll be fine in the NFL. He has great hands and he'll break enough of those big runs to keep his production up. But his style is NOT conducive to rushing titles and consistent production in the NFL. He'll be outproduced by 5 or 6 backs in this draft.

Considering how things shook out for you with last year's RB class and the transcendence of Dalvin Cook, not sure you should be banging the drum for anyone.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:People are overanalyzing him. Happens every year...



I think you’ll find several more in the Big 10 thread that say the same thing. When PSU needed tough yards, he missed more than he made it.


I think he will be a good back in the NFL, I just don’t see him being transcendental


This. Third and two, time to lower the shoulder and move the chains? Bounce-Bounce-Spin-Lunge-Short. And when the defenses in general were fast enough and well-coached enough not to get sucked into the wrong gap? See: Ohio State or Michigan State. They're all that way in the NFL.

Guice, Michel, and Chubb will all be better NFL backs.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:57 pm

RBF it's not that Barkley isn't really good. He's not just Fournette, Gurley, McFadden, ADP as a prospect, IMO. I think it'll be a toss up who is better between him and Guice. His receiving ability will be extremely valuable, but I was pointing out all season his inability to break tackles and get tough yards. It's not an after the fact over analyzing issue. It doesn't mean I hated him. He mostly was able to run though massive holes. When the holes shrank, his production plummeted. He was very boom/bust this season.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:03 am

uscbucsfan wrote:RBF it's not that Barkley isn't really good. He's not just Fournette, Gurley, McFadden, ADP as a prospect, IMO. I think it'll be a toss up who is better between him and Guice. His receiving ability will be extremely valuable, but I was pointing out all season his inability to break tackles and get tough yards. It's not an after the fact over analyzing issue. It doesn't mean I hated him. He mostly was able to run though massive holes. When the holes shrank, his production plummeted. He was very boom/bust this season.


Agree with this. He's going to be a useful, productive back in the NFL. But he's going to be closer to Christian McCaffrey than Leonard Fournette.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:58 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:This read like the scouting report of someone who's only watched highlight videos. You're wrong.


Or, a Big Ten fan who probably saw 20 of his games in college. Either one.

He'll be fine in the NFL. He has great hands and he'll break enough of those big runs to keep his production up. But his style is NOT conducive to rushing titles and consistent production in the NFL. He'll be outproduced by 5 or 6 backs in this draft.

Considering how things shook out for you with last year's RB class and the transcendence of Dalvin Cook, not sure you should be banging the drum for anyone.

Ya cuz Cook tearing his knee totally makes me wrong. Guy only averaged 4.8 a pop before the injury and was a monster in the pass game. Not like I had perhaps the ballsiest call of last years draft at the position in Kamara>McCaffery or anything either... while your big statement was how awesome McNichols was...

He won't be outproduced by 5-6 backs from this draft. Heck I don't think he'll be outproduced by 5-6 backs in the league. The guy is special, and better than Zeke or Fournette. Gurley was the only one on his level of recent backs, and even he had a knee injury...

You're over analyzing him.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:30 am

mdb1958 wrote:We can get Mike James back cheap prolly. Maybe even actually use him for his 4.5 a pop.


Ole boys only chance!



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... highlights
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:21 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
MJW wrote:Barkley is a bouncer. Give him a highway between the tackles, and he'll bounce outside anyway.

Do.
Not.
Want.

Guice is the truth. I don't want HIM at #7 either, mind you...but I have no doubt he'll have a better NFL career than Barkley.

Michel might end up having a better career than either of them. The Roger Craig is strong in him. 2,000 yards from scrimmage is in his future - more than once.


You’re wrong on Barkley. Check out his OSU highlights. This wasn’t even a great game stats wise, but it shows that Barkley doesn’t have an issue running through the hole and bouncing AFTER. Check the run at 2:00.



lmao I'm sorry but the play at 1:10 was some of the weakest **** I've seen in a while. You're 5 minutes into a game against OSU and you're ducking out of bounds 5 yards early against a CB? Does he even get the first lol?

... and the play at 2:00? That's just great blocking, particularly by the WR's to give him a lane to bounce it. and the mf'er almost runs out at the last minute. does the guy have a clue where he is on the field?

I see absolutely nothing special about anything he did in that entire game actually. Even the kickoff return is just him running left to a wide open 30-yard wide lane. It's just terrible kick coverage. All he had to do was beat a kicker to the sideline. do you have any better examples? He gets exactly what is given to him, nothing more, and even just barely does that... I'm sorry, there must be a better example of what people see in this kid?
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:30 am

I don't side with MJW frequently (especially when she's calling the GOAT "just another cog" LOL) - but I 100% agree with her here - I think Guice, Michel and Chubb are going to have far more success
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:02 am

MJW, when did you change? You said this mid-season in response to my criticism of him

MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:21 am

I think Barkley is an elite RB prospect. I just think this RB class is SO damn deep that I wouldn't draft him at 7 when the drop off is minimal from the guys that will be there in round 2 (compared to any other position). But Barkley is the best RB in this class an right up there with any other RB that has come out in the past decade imo.

My only knock on him is that he seems to forget he's 230lbs and has a tendency to rely too much on his elite speed to bounce things outside and avoids the tough yards. But we see this alot with elite college RBs and MANY people said the same about Dalvin Cook last season. I think they know they can get away with it in college so why take hits if you don't have to. But that bouncing stuff doesn't work in the NFL when LBs like Lavonte David, Deion Jones, etc are chasing you.

I think Barkely will adjust. He has a great build and runs with great balance and burst so he has all the tools you want. He really does check all the boxes for a top 10 draft pick at RB imo. The Bucs just have too big a hole with the pass rush and at LG to spend #7 on a RB when there is so much depth at the position in this class.

Pass on Barkley in round 1 and then draft a RB in round 2, then another RB in round 4 or 5. We need to overhaul the position anyways.
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Re: Draft Watch: Running Backs

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am

Elliott did the same thing (bounce outside) when he was at OSU. Barkley is essentially a bigger and faster version of Elliott, the guy is going to be a superstar.

The funny thing about this McCaffery comparison is that I was the only one knocking McCaffery last year because he couldn't run up the middle. Barkley is 230lbs and one of the strongest players in the draft, the guys can lift more than most o-lineman. The fact he doesn't try to run guys over like Fournette and Guice is a good thing IMO. It's going to lead to him having a longer career than those 2. Heck we've already seen the injuries pile up on Fournette. I really like Guice, but what scares me about him is that he's a 1 contract player. This guy is the most physical runner I think I've ever seen, and that just doesn't last. Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime, look at Cook last year tearing his ACL on a non contact play, but some guys you can tell are going to be banged up alot, while other guys are going to be able to stay fresh. Barkley is one of the latter...

If he's there at 7 passing on him would be nuts. But I think it's a moot point since I think he'll be long gone. But OJ fell to us last year, so who knows...
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