Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:31 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Having a top RB hasn't equated to any championships for those teams.



yep Defense wins championships
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Super K » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:34 am

Jags are the only ones who really blew their load for their young RB...

Bell, Kamara, Hunt...all these guys were round 2 or later, no?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:36 am

Super K wrote:Jags are the only ones who really blew their load for their young RB...

Bell, Kamara, Hunt...all these guys were round 2 or later, no?


another good point. Latavius Murray was a 6th rounder and McKinnon was a 3rd rounder too
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:39 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Super K wrote:Jags are the only ones who really blew their load for their young RB...

Bell, Kamara, Hunt...all these guys were round 2 or later, no?


another good point. Latavius Murray was a 6th rounder and McKinnon was a 3rd rounder too


Vikings are a great example. Lost their top back and kept on chugging. Why? The defense.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby acmillis » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:45 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
another good point. Latavius Murray was a 6th rounder and McKinnon was a 3rd rounder too


Vikings are a great example. Lost their top back and kept on chugging. Why? The defense.

Some would say the O-line...but okay.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:47 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Having a top RB hasn't equated to any championships for those teams.


So if you're not first you're last? Not sure I understand that point you're making with that comment.

Are you saying that Zeke was a bad/stupid pick for the Cowboys b/c they haven't won a Super Bowl yet? Or dismissing the positive impact top RBs have had on teams in recent years?

Their is more than one way to be successful and I'm not suggesting MUST have a top RB to win, I'm just making the point that there is evidence in recent years that it helps and I'm not in the camp of folks that believe you can just stick any ole guy RB back there and have the same success running the ball as teams that have invested a day 1 or 2 pick on the RB position (which the Bucs have not).

I believe it's imperative the Bucs upgrade the talent at RB if the team expects to realistically improve the rushing attack.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am

acmillis wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Vikings are a great example. Lost their top back and kept on chugging. Why? The defense.

Some would say the O-line...but okay.


Their run game got worse once Cook went down honestly. It's not particularly a strength. Their Oline is decent. I'm not talking about the performance of an individual unit. I'm talking about the performance of the team. If we're being clear they were 2-2 with Dalvin Cook and then 11-1 without him. Their defense is the reason why.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am

We all agree defense is important, I don't see where that has been debated otherwise here. In fact I haven't seen many (if any) opinions that have stated that defense isn't the biggest weakness/area of concern this offseason.

I think it's possible to address more than area in the offseason.

Advocating to upgrade the talent at RB so that Peyton Barber and Quizz Rodgers are not the Bucs 1-2 punch at RB next season doesn't mean I don't want the defense to be addressed. It's not an either/or situation.

Anyways, my bad for the derail here. I'll keep the RB talk in one of the RB threads going.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:05 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Yeah too bad we don’t have a defense to close out games . Hello 5-11 again but hey we have a great rb


If you add Barkley to this offence we could have an elite offence that could keep up with anyone...


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OFFENSE!!!!

NOT offence.....OFF-FENSE!

SAY IT WITH ME: OFFENSE

SAY IT AGAIN!

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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:18 pm

LOL
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Wow!

Talking about chasing other teams rosters, its like a friggin virus.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:45 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:LOL
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
If you add Barkley to this offence we could have an elite offence that could keep up with anyone...


Image

OFFENSE!!!!

NOT offence.....OFF-FENSE!

SAY IT WITH ME: OFFENSE

SAY IT AGAIN!

Image

Canadian spelling brah
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:12 pm

I can't imagine looking at a CFL fan board.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:17 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Wow!

Talking about chasing other teams rosters, its like a friggin virus.


English, muhfucka. English.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:59 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Image

OFFENSE!!!!

NOT offence.....OFF-FENSE!

SAY IT WITH ME: OFFENSE

SAY IT AGAIN!

Image

Canadian spelling brah


You in Canada ?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Canadian spelling brah


You in Canada ?


Isn't it obvious?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:26 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Wow!

Talking about chasing other teams rosters, its like a friggin virus.


English, muhfucka. English.

That's what we speak up here. Not sure about you 'Muricans though....
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:34 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
English, muhfucka. English.

That's what we speak up here. Not sure about you 'Muricans though....

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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:38 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
You in Canada ?


Isn't it obvious?


Dam canuks
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Sammich » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:21 pm

Is this where I remind everybody that Dallas was a top 10 rushing team the two years before Zeke got there?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm

Sammich wrote:Is this where I remind everybody that Dallas was a top 10 rushing team the two years before Zeke got there?


Yeah, with Demarco Murray who they decided they didn't want to pay because they thought any ole dude would suffice behind that Oline.

Then they win 4 or 5 games the next year and realize having a top RB makes them better and spend a top 5 pick on Zeke. With Zeke and a rookie QB they were one of the best teams in the entire NFL.

Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:32 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Sammich wrote:Is this where I remind everybody that Dallas was a top 10 rushing team the two years before Zeke got there?


Yeah, with Demarco Murray who they decided they didn't want to pay because they thought any ole dude would suffice behind that Oline.

Then they win 4 or 5 games the next year and realize having a top RB makes them better and spend a top 5 pick on Zeke. With Zeke and a rookie QB they were one of the best teams in the entire NFL.

Thanks for the reminder.


They were 9th in total rushing and they didn't have a QB. Romo being out was a bigger detriment to their step back in production than anything.

When Zeke was out this year they were still in the top 10 of rushing with him out. Their O-line, though not as good as it was the last couple of years, is elite.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:32 pm

Damn! Were happened awful fast!
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:34 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Sammich wrote:Is this where I remind everybody that Dallas was a top 10 rushing team the two years before Zeke got there?


Yeah, with Demarco Murray who they decided they didn't want to pay because they thought any ole dude would suffice behind that Oline.

Then they win 4 or 5 games the next year and realize having a top RB makes them better and spend a top 5 pick on Zeke. With Zeke and a rookie QB they were one of the best teams in the entire NFL.

Thanks for the reminder.


And again zero playoff wins.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:16 pm

When the Cowboys had Murray in '14 they were one of the best teams in the NFL. 12-4 and a BS call (Dez non-catch) vs GB from playing in the NFCCG.

When Zeke has been in the line-up the past 2 seasons they have been one of the best teams in the NFL. 19-6 when he plays, 3-4 he doesn't.

So going back 4 seasons the Cowboys are a collective 31-10 (win 76% of the time) when they have a 'top RB' in the line-up. While going 7-16 (win 30% of the time) when they don't.

In the two season they had Murray or Zeke for as full season they were a 12 and 13 win team.

But I'm sure those guys had nothing to do with win differential when they were on the field (as opposed to when they were not) and it was everyone else around them.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:20 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Yeah, with Demarco Murray who they decided they didn't want to pay because they thought any ole dude would suffice behind that Oline.

Then they win 4 or 5 games the next year and realize having a top RB makes them better and spend a top 5 pick on Zeke. With Zeke and a rookie QB they were one of the best teams in the entire NFL.

Thanks for the reminder.


They were 9th in total rushing and they didn't have a QB. Romo being out was a bigger detriment to their step back in production than anything.

When Zeke was out this year they were still in the top 10 of rushing with him out. Their O-line, though not as good as it was the last couple of years, is elite.


I'm not disputing how good the Dallas Oline is. I'm just stating the Cowboys win at a MUCH higher rate with a top RB running behind that Oline.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm

DreadNaught wrote:When the Cowboys had Murray in '14 they were one of the best teams in the NFL. 12-4 and a BS call (Dez non-catch) vs GB from playing in the NFCCG.

When Zeke has been in the line-up the past 2 seasons they have been one of the best teams in the NFL. 19-6 when he plays, 3-4 he doesn't.

So going back 4 seasons the Cowboys are a collective 31-10 (win 76% of the time) when they have a 'top RB' in the line-up. While going 7-16 (win 30% of the time) when they don't.

In the two season they had Murray or Zeke for as full season they were a 12 and 13 win team.

But I'm sure those guys had nothing to do with win differential when they were on the field (as opposed to when they were not) and it was everyone else around them.


I'm not saying they aren't better with elite RB talent...I'm just saying they still have a really really good (top 10) running game without them. The line is great. They help each other. My point of contention with their bad year was more on Romo being out than anything.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:30 pm

And again zero playoff wins
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:41 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:When the Cowboys had Murray in '14 they were one of the best teams in the NFL. 12-4 and a BS call (Dez non-catch) vs GB from playing in the NFCCG.

When Zeke has been in the line-up the past 2 seasons they have been one of the best teams in the NFL. 19-6 when he plays, 3-4 he doesn't.

So going back 4 seasons the Cowboys are a collective 31-10 (win 76% of the time) when they have a 'top RB' in the line-up. While going 7-16 (win 30% of the time) when they don't.

In the two season they had Murray or Zeke for as full season they were a 12 and 13 win team.

But I'm sure those guys had nothing to do with win differential when they were on the field (as opposed to when they were not) and it was everyone else around them.


I'm not saying they aren't better with elite RB talent...I'm just saying they still have a really really good (top 10) running game without them. The line is great. They help each other. My point of contention with their bad year was more on Romo being out than anything.


I don't disagree losing Romo in '15 was detrimental to their record that year. Nor that they have an elite Oline that allows them to be around 10th in the NFL with dudes like McFadden and Alfred Morris. But there is difference imo between being 10th best and being the #1 or 2. The Cowboys are different team with Zeke in the line-up than without and I don't see how anyone the watches them could dispute that (not saying you are).

But this discussion has been about the value of 'top RB' and the Cowboys a good use case. They win 75% of the games they have 'that guy' in the line-up and even with Romo or Dak they aren't even a .500 team without Murray/Zeke.
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