Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:45 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:And again zero playoff wins


Can't win a playoff game if you don't make it the playoffs either.

2014 - 12-4 with Murray
2016 - 13-3 with a full season of Zeke (actually 13-2 since Zeke sat out week 17)

Missed the playoffs both years when they tried/had to make due with JAG at RB.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:20 pm

DN putting the hammer down... nice.

And ultimately the greatest argument for getting a top tier RB is beyond even how much it would help us run the ball. The most compelling reason to get a top tier RB is that it is the thing that would best help Jameis Winston reach his potential and give him the best chance at being the best QB he can be. It's no secret how much of a game changer having a great run game is for a QBs development....
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:54 pm

Not really, you two are just selling what piece of the puzzle goes on the board next.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:21 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Not really, you two are just selling what piece of the puzzle goes on the board next.


"]Not really, you two are just selling what piece of the puzzle you think goes on the board next.[/quote]
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:26 pm

lmao.. Not sure I've seen someone quote their own post just to edit it.

Fwiw mdb, I'm not selling anything. Just offering a different take what seems to be the prevailing narrative. It doesn't make a hill of beans if anyone changes their mind.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:38 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:And again zero playoff wins


Can't win a playoff game if you don't make it the playoffs either.

2014 - 12-4 with Murray
2016 - 13-3 with a full season of Zeke (actually 13-2 since Zeke sat out week 17)

Missed the playoffs both years when they tried/had to make due with JAG at RB.



I notice you are leaving out how having a top 2 offensive line factors in. Want to know why the Cowboys took a big step back this year? There are several reasons, one of the largest is that Tyron Smith was hurt most of the year, as were several of his linemates. Even when they were in, they were rarely near 100%.


Want to run the ball? Build a line.


I've been doing some light reading, apparently there were a couple of games last year where Doug Martin had more yards after contact than he had net yards rushing. How the hell does that even happen and why would anyone think Barkley is going to fix it?


Lastly, why is THIS in the DE thread lol.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 pm

Read more than 1 post, nobody is saying having a strong Oline isn't beneficial.

But this idea that you can't draft a RB early until everything else is already in place doesn't make sense to me. If a team has shitty RBs (which the Bucs do if Barber is our best option) and a RB is the top graded prospect on the board it's foolish to pass on him imo. That logic doesn't apply to any other position, yet seems to be accepted by some when it comes to RB.

The Jaguars were tops in the NFL in rushing this season after many clowned them for taking a RB at 4th overall. No way a perennial losing team like the Jags should waste a premium pick like that on a RB when they hadn't addressed the Oline first, amirite?

Fwiw Barkley would be my 3rd or 4th option for the Bucs after Chubb and Fitzpatrick. I've stated numerous times defense is the priority imo and those are elite prospects as well. I'm just not against the idea of Barkley if the board falls that way like many seem to be. He provides a major upgrade on a very weak depth chart at RB for a team that needs to address their abilty to run the damn ball.

I think this thread got derailed last night and I've certainly not helped getting it back on track. If someone replies to this I'll quote it and pull it over to the RB thread.

In regards to DE, I don't see Davemport making it past the top 20. The buzz is already building for that kid and it's just going to snowball as the process plays out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 pick tbh.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:47 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
terrytate wrote:

I notice you are leaving out how having a top 2 offensive line factors in. Want to know why the Cowboys took a big step back this year? There are several reasons, one of the largest is that Tyron Smith was hurt most of the year, as were several of his linemates. Even when they were in, they were rarely near 100%.


Want to run the ball? Build a line.


I've been doing some light reading, apparently there were a couple of games last year where Doug Martin had more yards after contact than he had net yards rushing. How the hell does that even happen and why would anyone think Barkley is going to fix it?


Lastly, why is THIS in the DE thread lol.


Read more than 1 post, nobody is saying having a strong Oline isn't beneficial.

But this idea that you can't draft a RB early until everything else is already in place doesn't make sense to me. If a team has shitty RBs (which the Bucs do if Barber is our best option) and a RB is the top graded prospect on the board it's foolish to pass on him imo. That logic doesn't apply to any other position, yet seems to be accepted by some when it comes to RB.

The Jaguars were tops in the NFL in rushing this season after many clowned them for taking a RB at 4th overall. No way a perennial losing team like the Jags should waste a premium pick like that on a RB when they hadn't addressed the Oline first, amirite?

Fwiw Barkley would be my 3rd or 4th option for the Bucs after Chubb and Fitzpatrick. I've stated numerous times defense is the priority imo and those are elite prospects as well. I'm just not against the idea of Barkley if the board falls that way like many seem to be. He provides a major upgrade on a very weak depth chart at RB for a team that needs to address their abilty to run the damn ball.

I think this thread got derailed last night and I've certainly not helped getting it back on track. If someone replies to this I'll quote it and pull it over to the RB thread.

In regards to DE, I don't see Davemport making it past the top 20. The buzz is already building for that kid and it's just going to snowball as the process plays out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 pick tbh.


I don't disagree much. I favor getting a back as the last piece simply because they typcally have the shortest shelf life and take the least amount of time to produce in the NFL. That's ideal world thinking, and doesn't always apply to who falls to you in the draft. Barkley is high on my own board, but I think there will be players who are higher AND fill a bigger need, which is why I don't advocate RB at 7. We do need more talent at RB but this isn't the year or situation for us to spend a top 10 pick on one.

As to Fournette and the Jags, you really that they actually have a decent Oline there right? Now, I just went to Football Outsiders to get something to back that up, they had the Jags line at #13 for run blocking. and 5th at pass protection. The catch, they have us at 16 in run blocking AND pass protection. I'm not sure what to make of that, given how poor our line looked so often.


Edit: I am going to copy/paste this entire post over to the RB thread so as not to continue derailing the topic at hand here.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:46 pm

DreadNaught wrote:lmao.. Not sure I've seen someone quote their own post just to edit it.

Fwiw mdb, I'm not selling anything. Just offering a different take what seems to be the prevailing narrative. It doesn't make a hill of beans if anyone changes their mind.



No offence, but you and your partner could talk some defense. It's a long time before draft day.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:11 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Yeah, with Demarco Murray who they decided they didn't want to pay because they thought any ole dude would suffice behind that Oline.

Then they win 4 or 5 games the next year and realize having a top RB makes them better and spend a top 5 pick on Zeke. With Zeke and a rookie QB they were one of the best teams in the entire NFL.

Thanks for the reminder.


They were 9th in total rushing and they didn't have a QB. Romo being out was a bigger detriment to their step back in production than anything.

When Zeke was out this year they were still in the top 10 of rushing with him out. Their O-line, though not as good as it was the last couple of years, is elite.


This.

I love it when people pretend the Cowboys didn't have a run game that year. The rotting corpse of Darren McFadden rushed for 239-1089 behind that line and averaged 4.6 YPC. That 4.6 YPC would have been in the top ten this year, in front of superstars like Le'Veon Bell, Devonta Freeman, and...Ezekiel Elliott.

Shoot, even Joe Randle managed 4.1 YPC that year. Robert Turbin averaged 4.3.

They were a 4 win team that year because 12 of their games were started by Matt Cassel, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Wheeden. They went 1-11. Tony Romo? He went 3-1.

Next dumb argument, please.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:14 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:And again zero playoff wins


Can't win a playoff game if you don't make it the playoffs either.

2014 - 12-4 with Murray
2016 - 13-3 with a full season of Zeke (actually 13-2 since Zeke sat out week 17)

Missed the playoffs both years when they tried/had to make due with JAG at RB.


2014: Romo starts 15 games.
2015: Romo plays 4 games. Goes 3-1. 12 starts by quarterbacks who are now out of the NFL.
2016: Dak starts 16 games.

Do you really think Elliott averaging half a yard more a carry than Darren McFadden is why the 2016 Cowboys won eight more games than the 2015 Cowboys?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:18 am

Honestly, the Leonard Fournette argument is a better one than the Elliott argument. And that's still a BAD argument for the people who want to draft a running back. Fournette is a GREAT back who played behind a BAD line. The result? 3.9 YPC in the regular season. Or, nearly a yard less a carry than Alfred Morris had this year behind the Cowboys line.

You can take Peyton Barber, the dictionary definition of a solid, unspectacular running back. We go out, and we sign Andrew Norwell at one guard. We draft Quenton Nelson (or Billy Price or Will Hernandez) for the other guard. We get 16 games from Marpet and Dotson. Barber would averaged >4.5 YPC behind that line.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:49 am

MJW wrote:Honestly, the Leonard Fournette argument is a better one than the Elliott argument. And that's still a BAD argument for the people who want to draft a running back. Fournette is a GREAT back who played behind a BAD line. The result? 3.9 YPC in the regular season. Or, nearly a yard less a carry than Alfred Morris had this year behind the Cowboys line.

You can take Peyton Barber, the dictionary definition of a solid, unspectacular running back. We go out, and we sign Andrew Norwell at one guard. We draft Quenton Nelson (or Billy Price or Will Hernandez) for the other guard. We get 16 games from Marpet and Dotson. Barber would averaged >4.5 YPC behind that line.

You obviously haven't been watching the NFL lately if you think a backfield of Barber is enough... Barber can be the TJ Yeldon... but he is not the Fournette.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby MJW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:11 am

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:Honestly, the Leonard Fournette argument is a better one than the Elliott argument. And that's still a BAD argument for the people who want to draft a running back. Fournette is a GREAT back who played behind a BAD line. The result? 3.9 YPC in the regular season. Or, nearly a yard less a carry than Alfred Morris had this year behind the Cowboys line.

You can take Peyton Barber, the dictionary definition of a solid, unspectacular running back. We go out, and we sign Andrew Norwell at one guard. We draft Quenton Nelson (or Billy Price or Will Hernandez) for the other guard. We get 16 games from Marpet and Dotson. Barber would averaged >4.5 YPC behind that line.

You obviously haven't been watching the NFL lately if you think a backfield of Barber is enough... Barber can be the TJ Yeldon... but he is not the Fournette.


Could he be the Latavius Murray? Or the James White?

Have you been watching the NFL much in general the last few years? The last time the Patriots had a stud running back was a decade ago. The Panthers just got to a Superbowl with their quarterback as their only credible running threat and a great defense, and lost to a team with a better defense (and an undrafted running back.) The Falcons used two mid-round draft picks to get there, running behind a good line and an awesome pass attack.

Sure, we can talk about the Seahawks and Marshawn Lynch, although much like the Jaguars the running back because relevant AFTER they had added a legendary defense in place (I just checked, we don't have one of those.) Meanwhile, Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson have combined for 4 or 5 historic seasons and as many CCG appearances as my cat.

I'm old enough to remember when the league was what you seem to think it is, and if you had a monster running back, you could give him 400 touches and he could dictate the game. I remember Emmitt doing that for the Cowboys (behind, cough, maybe the best line in NFL history.) I remember further back, when Walter Payton and Eric Dickerson and Tony Dorsett did it, too.

It's not that thing anymore. Backs don't get 400 carries. Bell led the league with 321. The next closest guy had 287. Everybody plays in a committee at the position now. You don't give them 30 carries, as Emmitt often got. You give them 18 touches out of 70 plays. They're complimentary players, either to a great quarterback, or to a great defense, or both. And if you do decide you want a great running game, you don't draft one stud. You bring in 2 or 3 guys who can play, and who fit your scheme. You upgrade your line, and then upgrade it again. And you still better have a solid passing game to bail them out, or they're going to average 3.9 YPC like Fournette did.

What you want isn't logical, it isn't efficient, it isn't a magic shortcut, and the way you want to do it is too expensive and illogical too.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:23 am

Shaun Alexander owes his entire career to Steve Hutchinson.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:06 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:You obviously haven't been watching the NFL lately if you think a backfield of Barber is enough... Barber can be the TJ Yeldon... but he is not the Fournette.


Could he be the Latavius Murray? Or the James White?

Have you been watching the NFL much in general the last few years? The last time the Patriots had a stud running back was a decade ago. The Panthers just got to a Superbowl with their quarterback as their only credible running threat and a great defense, and lost to a team with a better defense (and an undrafted running back.) The Falcons used two mid-round draft picks to get there, running behind a good line and an awesome pass attack.

Sure, we can talk about the Seahawks and Marshawn Lynch, although much like the Jaguars the running back because relevant AFTER they had added a legendary defense in place (I just checked, we don't have one of those.) Meanwhile, Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson have combined for 4 or 5 historic seasons and as many CCG appearances as my cat.

I'm old enough to remember when the league was what you seem to think it is, and if you had a monster running back, you could give him 400 touches and he could dictate the game. I remember Emmitt doing that for the Cowboys (behind, cough, maybe the best line in NFL history.) I remember further back, when Walter Payton and Eric Dickerson and Tony Dorsett did it, too.

It's not that thing anymore. Backs don't get 400 carries. Bell led the league with 321. The next closest guy had 287. Everybody plays in a committee at the position now. You don't give them 30 carries, as Emmitt often got. You give them 18 touches out of 70 plays. They're complimentary players, either to a great quarterback, or to a great defense, or both. And if you do decide you want a great running game, you don't draft one stud. You bring in 2 or 3 guys who can play, and who fit your scheme. You upgrade your line, and then upgrade it again. And you still better have a solid passing game to bail them out, or they're going to average 3.9 YPC like Fournette did.

What you want isn't logical, it isn't efficient, it isn't a magic shortcut, and the way you want to do it is too expensive and illogical too.


We tried the no name Day 3 guy last year. Heck, the Bucs drafted the exact Day 3 back you put your name on in McNichols. And guess what? He stunk so bad he didn't even make the 53. There are guys at every position who come out of nowhere... you've been hyping up Courtland Sutton, but look at the Vikes! They are killing it with Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen at WR. Where were they drafted? Heck where was Case Keenum drafted? Nick Foles? Tom Brady? And to bring up that RBs are complimentary players yet are interested in drafting yet another WR... we can't even get Godwin touches, how many freaking touches do you think Sutton would get? 20? Now ask yourself how many Barkley would get???

Ultimately though I'll leave you this. We all agree that we are going to go as Jameis Winston goes for the next few years, no? Now ask yourself which player in this draft would best benefit Jameis Winston and help him be the best player he could be...
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:14 am

Long term I think a defensw that can get opposing offenses off the field and the ball back into Jameis' hands will help him the most. While having a run game is ideal and very important, it's not the end all be all to winning football games. Jameis Winston doesn't NEED a top RB to be successful. He's more than talented enough to do that. But he does need help to win games. And the biggest help would be a defense. The goal is to win games and championships. Not hang with other offenses. If you can stop them you dont have to play shootout with them. This offense was 7th in total yardage WITHOUT the threat of a run game. Moving the ball isn't a problem with Jameis Winston. We just couldn't stop teams from scoring when we really needed to.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:15 am

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:
Could he be the Latavius Murray? Or the James White?

Have you been watching the NFL much in general the last few years? The last time the Patriots had a stud running back was a decade ago. The Panthers just got to a Superbowl with their quarterback as their only credible running threat and a great defense, and lost to a team with a better defense (and an undrafted running back.) The Falcons used two mid-round draft picks to get there, running behind a good line and an awesome pass attack.

Sure, we can talk about the Seahawks and Marshawn Lynch, although much like the Jaguars the running back because relevant AFTER they had added a legendary defense in place (I just checked, we don't have one of those.) Meanwhile, Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson have combined for 4 or 5 historic seasons and as many CCG appearances as my cat.

I'm old enough to remember when the league was what you seem to think it is, and if you had a monster running back, you could give him 400 touches and he could dictate the game. I remember Emmitt doing that for the Cowboys (behind, cough, maybe the best line in NFL history.) I remember further back, when Walter Payton and Eric Dickerson and Tony Dorsett did it, too.

It's not that thing anymore. Backs don't get 400 carries. Bell led the league with 321. The next closest guy had 287. Everybody plays in a committee at the position now. You don't give them 30 carries, as Emmitt often got. You give them 18 touches out of 70 plays. They're complimentary players, either to a great quarterback, or to a great defense, or both. And if you do decide you want a great running game, you don't draft one stud. You bring in 2 or 3 guys who can play, and who fit your scheme. You upgrade your line, and then upgrade it again. And you still better have a solid passing game to bail them out, or they're going to average 3.9 YPC like Fournette did.

What you want isn't logical, it isn't efficient, it isn't a magic shortcut, and the way you want to do it is too expensive and illogical too.


We tried the no name Day 3 guy last year. Heck, the Bucs drafted the exact Day 3 back you put your name on in McNichols. And guess what? He stunk so bad he didn't even make the 53. There are guys at every position who come out of nowhere... you've been hyping up Courtland Sutton, but look at the Vikes! They are killing it with Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen at WR. Where were they drafted? Heck where was Case Keenum drafted? Nick Foles? Tom Brady? And to bring up that RBs are complimentary players yet are interested in drafting yet another WR... we can't even get Godwin touches, how many freaking touches do you think Sutton would get? 20? Now ask yourself how many Barkley would get???

Ultimately though I'll leave you this. We all agree that we are going to go as Jameis Winston goes for the next few years, no? Now ask yourself which player in this draft would best benefit Jameis Winston and help him be the best player he could be...


N...Nelson?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:23 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Long term I think a defensw that can get opposing offenses off the field and the ball back into Jameis' hands will help him the most. While having a run game is ideal and very important, it's not the end all be all to winning football games. Jameis Winston doesn't NEED a top RB to be successful. He's more than talented enough to do that. But he does need help to win games. And the biggest help would be a defense. The goal is to win games and championships. Not hang with other offenses. If you can stop them you dont have to play shootout with them. This offense was 7th in total yardage WITHOUT the threat of a run game. Moving the ball isn't a problem with Jameis Winston. We just couldn't stop teams from scoring when we really needed to.

A RB is 1 guy. A Defence is 11. We can literally give our team a top 10 rushing attack by adding 1 guy despite being in the bottom 5 last season. We are incredibly far away from having ourselves a top 10 D...

Every one agrees we need to improve the D. What's weird is so many folks are so content with sticking with hot garbage at RB yet again when it's such an easy problem to fix....
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:28 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Long term I think a defensw that can get opposing offenses off the field and the ball back into Jameis' hands will help him the most. While having a run game is ideal and very important, it's not the end all be all to winning football games. Jameis Winston doesn't NEED a top RB to be successful. He's more than talented enough to do that. But he does need help to win games. And the biggest help would be a defense. The goal is to win games and championships. Not hang with other offenses. If you can stop them you dont have to play shootout with them. This offense was 7th in total yardage WITHOUT the threat of a run game. Moving the ball isn't a problem with Jameis Winston. We just couldn't stop teams from scoring when we really needed to.

A RB is 1 guy. A Defence is 11. We can literally give our team a top 10 rushing attack by adding 1 guy despite being in the bottom 5 last season. We are incredibly far away from having ourselves a top 10 D...

Every one agrees we need to improve the D. What's weird is so many folks are so content with sticking with hot garbage at RB yet again when it's such an easy problem to fix....


Go back to 2016. Remember that 6 game win streak? What was the main catalyst for that winning streak?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:29 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:A RB is 1 guy. A Defence is 11. We can literally give our team a top 10 rushing attack by adding 1 guy despite being in the bottom 5 last season. We are incredibly far away from having ourselves a top 10 D...

Every one agrees we need to improve the D. What's weird is so many folks are so content with sticking with hot garbage at RB yet again when it's such an easy problem to fix....


Go back to 2016. Remember that 6 game win streak? What was the main catalyst for that winning streak?

A flash in the pan defence playing above their heads?
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Naismith » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:35 am

A RB can't improve the running game dramatically on his own. He needs good run blocking and scheming. I'm not opposed to taking a RB early and actually think the first round is a good spot to take a RB, but I think one good offensive lineman can help the running game far more than one good running back.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:36 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Long term I think a defensw that can get opposing offenses off the field and the ball back into Jameis' hands will help him the most. While having a run game is ideal and very important, it's not the end all be all to winning football games. Jameis Winston doesn't NEED a top RB to be successful. He's more than talented enough to do that. But he does need help to win games. And the biggest help would be a defense. The goal is to win games and championships. Not hang with other offenses. If you can stop them you dont have to play shootout with them. This offense was 7th in total yardage WITHOUT the threat of a run game. Moving the ball isn't a problem with Jameis Winston. We just couldn't stop teams from scoring when we really needed to.


Absolutely. The Bucs (or any team) will have a difficult time winning with a defense that gave up the most yards, 10th most points, and had the least # of QB sacks.

The running game sucked (26th) and the talent sucks, but defense is priority #1 this offseason.

I know I've posted alot about the value of a RB, but that is b/c there is chance a RB might be the highest graded player on the board when we pick in addition to this prevailing narrative that elite RBs don't matter, so my posts are in response to that vice advocating we draft Barkely at 7. So while it's not ideal we draft a RB in round 1 given defense is priority #1, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Barkley ends up having an impact like Zeke, Fournette, Hunt, David Johnson, etc. I get the some may not be high on Barkley but dudes like Danial Jerimiah and Bucky Brooks freaking rave about this kid so I'm going to have an open mind. But Chubb or even Fitz would be my preference right now. Maybe some other EDGE prospects like Davenport and Arden Key will elevate as the process plays out b/c EDGE rush is a much bigger issue than RB for the Bucs.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:41 am

Naismith wrote:A RB can't improve the running game dramatically on his own. He needs good run blocking and scheming. I'm not opposed to taking a RB early and actually think the first round is a good spot to take a RB, but I think one good offensive lineman can help the running game far more than one good running back.

Well I'm in the camp that our o-line really isn't that bad. It was decidedly average (and the stats agree, ranked 16th in both run blocking and pass protection). But I also think it will be better next year, with Smith and Marpet having another year under their belts (especially Marpet who took his lumps learning the C spot), and Sweezy further removed from the back surgery. We need to upgrade the LG spot, but that's a relatively easy fix. I think Nelson is a hell of Guard prospect, but in no way shape or form can an elite guard have the impact of an elite RB... if Barkley is off the board, I'm all about Nelson. But if both are available? Barkley is an easy selection.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Go back to 2016. Remember that 6 game win streak? What was the main catalyst for that winning streak?

A flash in the pan defence playing above their heads?


It's defense, but yes. Now think about it, a flash in the pan defense playing above their head spearheaded a 6 game winning streak. Imagine if we actually devoted valuable, premium resources to that unit. That would make winning a lot easier than a top RB.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:51 am

Also RBF, this isn't Madden. None of these things will be easy fixes. I've seen you say finding a LG would be easy and that Barkley would easily fix the run game. Fiction. If those things were easy we wouldn't be picking so high. Nothing in this league is easy.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:55 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:A flash in the pan defence playing above their heads?


It's defense, but yes. Now think about it, a flash in the pan defense playing above their head spearheaded a 6 game winning streak. Imagine if we actually devoted valuable, premium resources to that unit. That would make winning a lot easier than a top RB.

I have Chubb over Barkley on my BB for that reason. But reaching for a Gaines Adams when Adrian Peterson is there would be insane because Barber aint Cadillac.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:56 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Also RBF, this isn't Madden. None of these things will be easy fixes. I've seen you say finding a LG would be easy and that Barkley would easily fix the run game. Fiction. If those things were easy we wouldn't be picking so high. Nothing in this league is easy.

Dalls took Zeke, run game fixed. Jags took Fournette, run game fixed. Bucs take Barkley? Expect the same. This is also one of the deepest OL drafts of recent memory. There are going to be Pro Bowlers available on Day 2.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:26 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Also RBF, this isn't Madden. None of these things will be easy fixes. I've seen you say finding a LG would be easy and that Barkley would easily fix the run game. Fiction. If those things were easy we wouldn't be picking so high. Nothing in this league is easy.

Dalls took Zeke, run game fixed. Jags took Fournette, run game fixed. Bucs take Barkley? Expect the same. This is also one of the deepest OL drafts of recent memory. There are going to be Pro Bowlers available on Day 2.


There's no guarantee of any of that happening. And no it isn't an easy fix either no matter how hard you try to convince people otherwise, *****.
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Re: Draft Watch: Defensive Ends

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:42 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Dalls took Zeke, run game fixed. Jags took Fournette, run game fixed. Bucs take Barkley? Expect the same. This is also one of the deepest OL drafts of recent memory. There are going to be Pro Bowlers available on Day 2.


There's no guarantee of any of that happening. And no it isn't an easy fix either no matter how hard you try to convince people otherwise, *****.

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