With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Browns

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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:48 pm

As a die hard browns fans since the Brian Sipe days we better

1. Take Allen or Rosen #1
2. Not trade a single pick this draft
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Naismith » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:51 pm

Super K wrote:They already have 12 damn picks in the draft...they don't need anymore picks


There's no such thing as too many picks! :)
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:54 pm

Naismith wrote:I wouldn't think they'd sign Cousins unless they don't love a QB in the draft, but if they do sign him, they're pretty much going to have to trade out of one of their two picks. The value will just be way too high.


This team just went 0-16 after a 1-15 year. Over that time span they've made 24 draft picks, 4 of which have been 1st round picks and have 12 picks this year. It's time to stop moving back and time to get real talent. There's no value for them continuously trading back every single year. Whether they sign Cousins or not, they need to grab the players that are there. The executives and talent evaluators they signed should be able to do so for them.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:58 pm

I'm with Bootz and Zarni (obviously)...

Trading back is why Cleveland started Kizer at QB this year instead of Watson..

Stop trying to look cute and "win" the draft...trust your talent evaluators, hold them accountable, stay put and select the too guys on your board..
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Exactly ... since we were reborn in 1999 the only QB we took top 20 was Couch. And he was actually looking decent when his arm gave out

Other than that we have tried to get cute with guys like Wynn, Kizer, Manziel, Frye, etc
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:10 pm

Super K wrote:I'm with Bootz and Zarni (obviously)...

Trading back is why Cleveland started Kizer at QB this year instead of Watson..

Stop trying to look cute and "win" the draft...trust your talent evaluators, hold them accountable, stay put and select the too guys on your board..


If people want perspective, Cleveland has made 16 1st round picks over the last 11 drafts. By far the most in football. 4 of their last 6 drafts they've made multiple 1st round picks.

And not just Deshaun Watson. 2016 they also had the #2 overall pick and could've taken Carson Wentz. Instead they got Corey Coleman.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:14 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:I'm with Bootz and Zarni (obviously)...

Trading back is why Cleveland started Kizer at QB this year instead of Watson..

Stop trying to look cute and "win" the draft...trust your talent evaluators, hold them accountable, stay put and select the too guys on your board..


If people want perspective, Cleveland has made 16 1st round picks over the last 11 drafts. By far the most in football. 4 of their last 6 drafts they've made multiple 1st round picks.

And not just Deshaun Watson. 2016 they also had the #2 overall pick and could've taken Carson Wentz. Instead they got Corey Coleman.


Yep, you are correct...and they started Josh McCown at QB that year, right?
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Naismith » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:15 pm

The issue in these instances is evaluation, not the trades. It's almost always better to acquire more picks. That's separate from what you do with the picks. You can make a good trade and then make bad picks with the assets you acquire.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:20 pm

Super K wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If people want perspective, Cleveland has made 16 1st round picks over the last 11 drafts. By far the most in football. 4 of their last 6 drafts they've made multiple 1st round picks.

And not just Deshaun Watson. 2016 they also had the #2 overall pick and could've taken Carson Wentz. Instead they got Corey Coleman.


Yep, you are correct...and they started Josh McCown at QB that year, right?


That was the McCown/RG3/Kessler/Hogan year that all of them got hurt.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Naismith wrote:The issue in these instances is evaluation, not the trades. It's almost always better to acquire more picks. That's separate from what you do with the picks. You can make a good trade and then make bad picks with the assets you acquire.


I've yet to see an instance of a team collecting picks with a great outcome. Especially recently. It seems like you're just reading off of a mission statement in hopes that it's somehow true.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby MJW » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:04 am

Ultimately, if you have good talent evaluation and decision making, you'll be find no matter what you do.

And if not, you'll suck, no matter what you do.

If the Browns had used their stockpiled picks to select better players, the process isn't being questioned.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Naismith » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:39 am

Yeah, talent evaluation is the key. It's also hard.

People tend to be too results oriented when evaluating trades. You can make a great trade for some draft picks and then miss on all of the picks. It's still a great trade, even if you completely strike out on the drafted players.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Sammich » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:03 pm

I'm a huge believer in trading down. Whatever your hit percentage is, the more picks you have the more you will hit. Unless you're just smitten with a certain player then trading down is always a good move.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:38 pm

Sammich wrote:I'm a huge believer in trading down. Whatever your hit percentage is, the more picks you have the more you will hit. Unless you're just smitten with a certain player then trading down is always a good move.


This theory has NOT proven to be successful. Yet fans just close their eyes and convince themselves it is.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby MJW » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:50 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Sammich wrote:I'm a huge believer in trading down. Whatever your hit percentage is, the more picks you have the more you will hit. Unless you're just smitten with a certain player then trading down is always a good move.


This theory has NOT proven to be successful. Yet fans just close their eyes and convince themselves it is.


There aren't many draft theories that have been "proven" to work or not to work. It's impossible to conduct any kind of control experiment with the NFL draft. All we can really do is look for VERY broad strategies that correlate with success or failure. And even then, with only a few exceptions (like, say, drafting a kicker high, sigh), we're talking about loose correlations with tons of potential intervening factors.
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Re: With the 1st pick in the 2018 NFL Draft the Cleveland Br

Postby Doctor » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:49 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
This theory has NOT proven to be successful. Yet fans just close their eyes and convince themselves it is.


There aren't many draft theories that have been "proven" to work or not to work. It's impossible to conduct any kind of control experiment with the NFL draft. All we can really do is look for VERY broad strategies that correlate with success or failure. And even then, with only a few exceptions (like, say, drafting a kicker high, sigh), we're talking about loose correlations with tons of potential intervening factors.

Exactly. Next Bootz will ask for a proven strategy to craps.
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