MB's Mid-Season top guys

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MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:54 pm

Among this year's draft prospects that I've seen so far...


QB- Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma. Reluctant to give him the top spot, but his productivity edges out McSorley's Moxie.

RB- Saquan Barkley, Penn State. Just give him the Heisman already. Incredible talent.

WR1- James Washington, Okie State. Big deep ball threat that is also threatening Dez Bryant's records in Stillwater.

WR2- Deon Cain, Clemson. Seems effortless out there. Guy just makes play after play.

TE- Mark Andrews, Oklahoma. Best kept secret in college football IMO.

OT1- Mike McGlinchey, Notre Dame. No secret here.

OT2- Ike Botteger, Iowa. second best IMO, but nobody else seems to like him as much as I do.

OG1- Quentin Nelson, Notre Dame. I have a tough time scouting Guards in real time so my top two Guards just so happen to be playing next to my top two tackles.

OG2- Sean Welsh, Iowa. kind of uncanny.

C- Brad Bozeman, Alabama. Center is also tough for me to watch in real time unless they are playing like crap. Bozeman gets the nod for his FSU tape.

DT- Maurice Hurst, Michigan. Dominant vs. Florida. I'm way behind on D-line this season so I'll leave the other DT spot open for now.

DE1- Bradley Chubb, NC State. Chubb plays with nastiness. He's freakin' mean out there and I dig that.

DE2 Lorenzo Carter, Georgia. Carter has great first step and speed to go with it.

ILB- Roquan Smith, Georgia. Reminds me a lot of Kwon. Full speed and great tackling. Ate Miss. St. QB Nick Fitzgerald's lunch when they met.

OLB1- Josey Jewell, Iowa. Currently a Mike, but probably a weakside LB in the pro's. He's got great instincts and tackles way better than last year.

OLB2- Shaun Dion Hamilton, Alabama. All over the field and very effective against the run.

CB1- Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama. Elite corner prospect and probably the first DB off the board.

CB2- Tavarus McFadden, FSU. He's got all the tools and plenty of speed, but I dunno if he's a completed product yet.

SS- Derwin James, FSU. Can cover, can blitz, can spy the QB. lines up all over the backfield. He doesn't wow you like Jalen Ramsey, but he's perhaps more versatile.

FS- D'Cota Dixon, Wisconsin. Also a versatile player. Wisconsin has played him at Nickel, in the box, and back deep. Want to see more of him.


Like I said, These are just among the guys I've seen. Feel free to say "so n' so is better than who you got here" but it's possible that I haven't even seen who you're talking about yet.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Konatown » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks for posting MB, I know this year you’re looking carefully at prospects and appreciate it. If this season goes south, Chubb or Fitzpatrick would be great.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:24 pm

Konatown wrote:Thanks for posting MB, I know this year you’re looking carefully at prospects and appreciate it. If this season goes south, Chubb or Fitzpatrick would be great.

I still have a long way to go. I only have notes on about 115 out of 422 players and a lot of them are things like "RT #67" and "Watch Michigan tape"

O-line is a bitch to scout in real time unless the player is playing bad. D-line is too because most of the time, they can't get to the play.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby MJW » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:23 pm

You need to find an excuse to watch Courtland Sutton.

I know WR is far from our biggest need. But you take a guy with his skill set (home run ball vacuum, 2 steps to max speed, red zone nightmare) and put him in the soup with what we have now and holy cow. He's not quite as big as Evans, but his catch radius is just as big and he might have better hops.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:26 pm

MJW wrote:You need to find an excuse to watch Courtland Sutton.

I know WR is far from our biggest need. But you take a guy with his skill set (home run ball vacuum, 2 steps to max speed, red zone nightmare) and put him in the soup with what we have now and holy cow. He's not quite as big as Evans, but his catch radius is just as big and he might have better hops.

We've been cheesing on Sutton for a year now.

Haven't seen any of his 2017 tape, but if he's still doing his thing, he'll be near the top of the charts.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:07 pm

MJW wrote:You need to find an excuse to watch Courtland Sutton.

I know WR is far from our biggest need. But you take a guy with his skill set (home run ball vacuum, 2 steps to max speed, red zone nightmare) and put him in the soup with what we have now and holy cow. He's not quite as big as Evans, but his catch radius is just as big and he might have better hops.



I've seen this guy play live twice...he's good. Really good. It will be interesting to see how he can adjust to a pro-style offense...and if he can keep his head on his shoulders
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Cheb » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:08 pm

I've been reviewing the draft with an eye towards Bucs' needs. This list is as good a place to start as any. I'm not looking at quarterbacks or receivers or tight ends or linebackers. I'd say that our chief needs are defensive end and corner. You could argue running back, left guard, right tackle (to replace Dot), and safety, but you could also argue against them. I don't think anyone would argue that we need a starting quality defensive end and a starting quality cornerback.

Let's start with the ends. I really love Bradley Chubb. He's enthusiastic both on and off the field, is productive against the run and pass, and is technically sound. Great hands, great feet, destroys one-on-ones, and makes impact plays. He doesn't play down to his level of competition. He's at the highest position of obvious need, would immediately provide good snaps in the rotation, has the size and speed to be an every down 4-3 end (an increasingly rare thing these days), and he is pretty easily my favorite pass rusher of this draft at this point. Arden Key really has fallen off this year, in a somewhat alarming way. To go from dominant to invisible is concerning, unless you're being double and triple teamed every snap. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo is a too light in the ass, ditto Lorenzo Carter. Like every year, impact 4-3 ends are rare as summer snow.

On to defensive backs. Minkah Fitzpatrick is good, very athletic, very fast on the football field, makes impact plays, and he will probably be a top ten or even top five pick. The question is whether he's a corner or a safety, and unless your name is Jalen Ramsey, the answer is inevitably safety with guys like this. Same with Derwin James out of FSU. Are we bad enough dudes to pick a safety that high, especially after we just drafted our long-term answer at FS with Evans and continue our puzzling Conte love affair? I doubt it.

Let's move on to the corners. I'll start with one of my favorites, Levi Wallace at Alabama. He is good. Really, really ****ing good. Levi is currently rated a later first or early second rounder, but hot ****, this guy can ball. I would go so far as to say that Wallace may be a better pro than Fitzpatrick. So far this year, Levi has allowed 9 catches for 35 yards this year while snagging 3 interceptions, allowing a disgusting 0.7 quarterback rating. That's stupid good, and his film backs it up. I love Levi Wallace. He's smart, he's physical but not stupid about it, and he's technically sound. Levi may not time well or any of that other predraft crap, so he may fall, but he certainly earned his Midseason All-American selection. He's on my list of wants, for sure.

Tavarus McFadden is very toolsy, great physical characteristics. He's a sticky cover man and his ball skills are top notch. He needs some work at the line of scrimmage, but he has great recovery speed and he can sky for interceptions better than most receivers. He has a nice physicality to his run defense, although sometimes it seems to bite him in the ass when he gets overzealous. On his better plays, he looks like Patrick Peterson. I defer to the resident FSU homers here, but he seems pretty legit to me.

The runners up for first round selections, like Denzel Ward from Ohio State, overall don't impress me as a group.

Now onto positions of lesser need.

At running back, Saquan Barkley is the best player in the country, but I would be very surprised if we drafted him. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless. Love from Stanford would also be a shock of a first rounder.

I can't believe the hype that Mike McGlinchey is getting. The dude is a scrub. He lunges when run blocking, and is a waist bender instead of a knee bender. Overall poor hand placement, lets his hands get outside, will be called for holding alot in the NFL. He sets an overly wide base in pass pro, which leads to bad balance, which leads to getting embarrassed, literally thrown to the ground ALOT for a consensus All-American. He has good movement when pulling, and has strong hands when he latches on, but has difficulty landing blocks on moving defenders and doesn't finish blocks. I watched him play vs Notre Dame last year and Chubb ate his lunch.

By contrast, his teammate Quentin Nelson is a joy to watch. I love this guy. People are going to make lazy comparisons to Zach Martin (he's a white lineman from Notre Dame who is good), but he is WAY more physical. He can move well in space, he can pull, he can drive block to make the angels weep. I am firmly on Nelson's bandwagon.

Just my two cents.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Damn. I need to go back and watch McGlinchey again.

Looked good vs. Mich state from what I saw.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby MJW » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:12 pm

I haven't seen WV any this year...is Will Grier an NFL QB or a system product?
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:34 am

MJW wrote:I haven't seen WV any this year...is Will Grier an NFL QB or a system product?

Jury is still out.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby deltbucs » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:50 am

Cheb wrote:On to defensive backs. Minkah Fitzpatrick is good, very athletic, very fast on the football field, makes impact plays, and he will probably be a top ten or even top five pick. The question is whether he's a corner or a safety, and unless your name is Jalen Ramsey, the answer is inevitably safety with guys like this. Same with Derwin James out of FSU. Are we bad enough dudes to pick a safety that high, especially after we just drafted our long-term answer at FS with Evans and continue our puzzling Conte love affair? I doubt it.

Tavarus McFadden is very toolsy, great physical characteristics. He's a sticky cover man and his ball skills are top notch. He needs some work at the line of scrimmage, but he has great recovery speed and he can sky for interceptions better than most receivers. He has a nice physicality to his run defense, although sometimes it seems to bite him in the ass when he gets overzealous. On his better plays, he looks like Patrick Peterson. I defer to the resident FSU homers here, but he seems pretty legit to me.

McFadden's career has been pretty interesting at FSU. Last season he struggled mightily in the first half. He was just getting beat like a drum repeatedly. He had so many picks last year, in part, because he was picked on so much early, and then it kind of started to click for him, I think. He's a fine player, but just how good is tough to tell without the all-22. This season, opposing offenses have pretty much avoided him. I'm assuming it's because he's playing so well. He played well last night, but definitely made a couple bone-headed plays. If he continues to progress, I think we're looking at a damn fine NFL corner.

Derwin James, I think, is a little overrated. He's extremely versatile and does everything well....expect tackle in open space which is kind of a big deal if he wants to play safety in the NFL.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:02 am

Like the McSorley mention, dude is a baller.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Super K » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:44 pm

deltbucs wrote:
Cheb wrote:On to defensive backs. Minkah Fitzpatrick is good, very athletic, very fast on the football field, makes impact plays, and he will probably be a top ten or even top five pick. The question is whether he's a corner or a safety, and unless your name is Jalen Ramsey, the answer is inevitably safety with guys like this. Same with Derwin James out of FSU. Are we bad enough dudes to pick a safety that high, especially after we just drafted our long-term answer at FS with Evans and continue our puzzling Conte love affair? I doubt it.

Tavarus McFadden is very toolsy, great physical characteristics. He's a sticky cover man and his ball skills are top notch. He needs some work at the line of scrimmage, but he has great recovery speed and he can sky for interceptions better than most receivers. He has a nice physicality to his run defense, although sometimes it seems to bite him in the ass when he gets overzealous. On his better plays, he looks like Patrick Peterson. I defer to the resident FSU homers here, but he seems pretty legit to me.

McFadden's career has been pretty interesting at FSU. Last season he struggled mightily in the first half. He was just getting beat like a drum repeatedly. He had so many picks last year, in part, because he was picked on so much early, and then it kind of started to click for him, I think. He's a fine player, but just how good is tough to tell without the all-22. This season, opposing offenses have pretty much avoided him. I'm assuming it's because he's playing so well. He played well last night, but definitely made a couple bone-headed plays. If he continues to progress, I think we're looking at a damn fine NFL corner.

Derwin James, I think, is a little overrated. He's extremely versatile and does everything well....expect tackle in open space which is kind of a big deal if he wants to play safety in the NFL.


I agree..

McFadden could be a nice CB at the next level, just keep his ass off of STs..

James has not lived up to the hype, he may end up being closer to Mark Barron in the NFL..

Now Fitzpatrick? Dude is a monster..it'll be interesting to see how he measures out..but I think he could be one helluva huge, fast, physical corner to contend with the JJ, KB type WRs in our division..
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:00 am

So has anyone's opinions of Barkley changed after the last couple weeks?

Last week, in a close loss to MSU, he ran for only 63 yards

The week before, in a loss to OSU, he had 21 carries for 44 yards.



Just a blip on the radar or concern that he can't run against good defenses?
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:38 am

Zarniwoop wrote:So has anyone's opinions of Barkley changed after the last couple weeks?

Last week, in a close loss to MSU, he ran for only 63 yards

The week before, in a loss to OSU, he had 21 carries for 44 yards.



Just a blip on the radar or concern that he can't run against good defenses?

I'm not concerned so long as he isn't the centerpiece of an entire offense like he is right now. Without him, PSU is a good, but not great team that can be beaten.

Put him on any NFL offense that forces the defense to respect the pass and he will be successful.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:43 am

McSorley is the best QB in the Big 10...and PSU has been throwing more than running. I don’t think the offense is on Barkleys shoulders. He certainly plays a big role, but they aren’t one dimensional.




In fact I think PSU has the most balanced offense in the Big 10


My concern for him is that he isn’t able to lower the shoulder and get the 2 or 3 yards when everything is stuffed up as well as other top guys
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:28 am

Zarniwoop wrote:So has anyone's opinions of Barkley changed after the last couple weeks?

Last week, in a close loss to MSU, he ran for only 63 yards

The week before, in a loss to OSU, he had 21 carries for 44 yards.



Just a blip on the radar or concern that he can't run against good defenses?


I have concerns about Barkley being a top 5 RB. Is he more Zeke/Fournette/Gurley? Or more McCaffery/Reggie Bush?

If I'm drafting a RB that high I want to be a guy I can run downhill to ice games away in the 2nd half, turn 1yd runs into 3-4yds, in addition to the explosiveness all of these guys offer. I'm enamoured with all the things Barkley can do on the football field, but is he the "THE GUY" you need him to be if you're spending a top 3-5 overall pick who you can feed 25-30 times like a Fournette, Lev Bell, Zeke, Gurley that defenses will fear in the 4th quarters of games? If so, than he's worth it. If not, there are RBs in rounds 2-3 that can effective in a role like we see w/ Kamara, Freeman/Coleman, McCaffery, etc.

Barkley has just one 100yd game in his last five games once B1G games got rolling and only 3 in 9 games this year. He is certainly a dynamic RB with an all around game. I just want to see more downhill production running the ball. Part of that might be the offense Barkley is in at PSU also.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:50 am

Isn't Barkley like 230lbs? Barkley can do it all, it's just a matter of teams focusing on shutting him down. The most important thing when scouting is identifying traits, and Barkley has all of the traits of a superstar rb.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Cheb » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:57 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Isn't Barkley like 230lbs? Barkley can do it all, it's just a matter of teams focusing on shutting him down. The most important thing when scouting is identifying traits, and Barkley has all of the traits of a superstar rb.


I like Barkley, I really do. But there isn't a large difference between him and Dougie, in my opinion. Certainly not large enough to spend a top 5 pick.

In a vacuum, he may be BPA at our selection, but would he fit our team the best? I dunno just yet, too early to say. But still, the thought gives me pause.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:01 pm

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Isn't Barkley like 230lbs? Barkley can do it all, it's just a matter of teams focusing on shutting him down. The most important thing when scouting is identifying traits, and Barkley has all of the traits of a superstar rb.


I like Barkley, I really do. But there isn't a large difference between him and Dougie, in my opinion. Certainly not large enough to spend a top 5 pick.

In a vacuum, he may be BPA at our selection, but would he fit our team the best? I dunno just yet, too early to say. But still, the thought gives me pause.


I think there's a pretty big difference between Barkley and Dougie, most notably the agility to make defenders miss and his skills as a pass catcher. Martin is below average on both counts, while Barkley would grade as elite in those areas. Big difference. Barkley IMO is the total package.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:47 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I like Barkley, I really do. But there isn't a large difference between him and Dougie, in my opinion. Certainly not large enough to spend a top 5 pick.

In a vacuum, he may be BPA at our selection, but would he fit our team the best? I dunno just yet, too early to say. But still, the thought gives me pause.


I think there's a pretty big difference between Barkley and Dougie, most notably the agility to make defenders miss and his skills as a pass catcher. Martin is below average on both counts, while Barkley would grade as elite in those areas. Big difference. Barkley IMO is the total package.

I have to agree. Barkley is very nimble and quite faster.

I've always loved Doug's determined running style. But I'd have to say that Barkley is the better prospect compared to Doug coming out of Boise State.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
I think there's a pretty big difference between Barkley and Dougie, most notably the agility to make defenders miss and his skills as a pass catcher. Martin is below average on both counts, while Barkley would grade as elite in those areas. Big difference. Barkley IMO is the total package.

I have to agree. Barkley is very nimble and quite faster.

I've always loved Doug's determined running style. But I'd have to say that Barkley is the better prospect compared to Doug coming out of Boise State.


Doug is a dangerous runner when he's able to get to full speed and use his low center of gravity and underrated power, but ya, Barkley is a different type of animal. Barkley is very comparable to Zeke as a prospect, perhaps he's even better.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:52 pm

I've tried to watch Barkley this year. He looks good, but doesn't look to be on the level of Gurley or Fournette. I'll admit I've only watched him vs. Michigan, OSU, and Michigan State(watched OSU and USC last year), but he may have broken 1 tackle in those three games. His change of direction and vision is great, but he mostly is running free with no defenders around him. I think the fact that Gurley and Fournette could run over and through defenders...as well as run around them and find holes are part of what make them elite...Same with Elliott to a lesser degree. Watching Barkley in those games, he's not the type of RB who drags a pile forward to turn a 1 yard run into a 7-10 yard run. He goes down often with first contact...but again, I've only watched him play 5 times and only 3 of those I was specifically watching him.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby MJW » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:06 am

I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:54 am

MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.


I know it's all preference and subjective, but why would you put Barkley ahead of them? What does he do that they can't?

I had it and still believe:

Gurley
Fournette

Elliot
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:15 pm

I have Barkley at the top of that list as well.

He's the only one who doesn't/didn't have a single wart. Alot can happen between now and draft day obviously, but he's as blue chip as it gets.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:18 pm

MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.

Look what those 3 guys have done for those teams. You wouldn't take that for the Bucs? I personally think it's the perfect scenario. We need that kind of turnaround in the run game to get back on track. Not only does it save our offence, but it could save Winston and Koetter as well. Heck this time next year, we could be talking about one of the elite O's in the league. Winston, Evans, Howard, Barkley... that's the type of talent on offence that can win Super Bowls...
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:25 pm

MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.

What do you think of UGA's Chubb? Isn't he on already one of the SEC leading rushers of all time?? Top 5 anyway....
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby real bucs fan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:39 am

Selmon Rules wrote:
MJW wrote:I had Gurley as the best RB prospect since McFadden...
I had Elliott a bit ahead of Gurley...
I had Fournette a good deal ahead of Elliott...
And I have Barkley ahead of them all.

Although tbh, I might have Guice right there also.

And to be MORE honest, if we take a RB top ten, I'm going to Liz Lemon eye-roll myself into optometrological therapy.

What do you think of UGA's Chubb? Isn't he on already one of the SEC leading rushers of all time?? Top 5 anyway....

To follow this up, what are folks opinons of Guice? Was talking to a Giants friend of mine, we were commiserating on picking top 5 potentially, and he was all about Guice.
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Re: MB's Mid-Season top guys

Postby Alpha » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:30 am

I'm just gonna be real pissed if we don't draft HEAVILY defense.

We don't have the talent to compete. Maybe FA helps but Jesus...a CB. A Safety. A d-lineman. ANYONE would improve this defense. Lord...doesn't Grimes' contract expire this year? What do we have there? A good nickel corner? Can we pretty please get enough talent to get Conty off the team? ANYONE to register 5 sacks? I fail to see how we win more than 8 games with this defense...ever.

And if you think Gruden is the solution, you're a part of the problem.
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