Best Team in Florida

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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Native Son » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:47 pm

UCF vs Navy

Watch it if available. :drinkingcheers:
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby MJW » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:26 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:
It's...being discussed around Huskerland, for obvious reasons.

I think the Big Ten would grind his goofball spread attack into dust, personally. Though I do like the guy as a coach. It would just be a bad fit IMHO.


That goofball spread stuff is already dominating the B1G. What do you think Urban Meyer has run since his Bowling Green days?

Frost also runs the spread.

I'm not saying Nebraska should or shouldn't hire Leach, I couldn't care less tbh. But not doing so based on his offense is not a point I agree with. The guy has turned irrelevant/doormat programs in both the Big12 and Pac12/14 (TTU & WashST) into respectable and competitive teams and his goofball offense is why. It's an offense that we see similar concepts all over college football including many perennial top 10 teams.


Mike Leach's spread =/= the offenses you're describing.
Air Raid =/= Zone Read.
They have nothing in common except for player spacing.

For example, The Cougs this year have run 183 times for 2.9 YPC. Luke falk has -50 rushing yards officially.

Urban Meyer's Bucks have run 291 times for 6.0 YPC. JT Barrett has 370 rushing yards this year; I imagine that's more than every Mike Leach quarterback from the last decade put together.

The Zone Read is first and foremost a running offense. That's why it's working in the Big Ten. That's what the Big Ten is about. There have been exceptions, of course, but even Joe Tiller's teams had 400 rushing attempts a year.

The question about Frost's scheme is legit, but the guy is a disciple of Chip Kelly, and Chip ran the ball 50 times a game. Doesn't mean Frost will, but I think he's rolling with what he has at UCF, which is what a good coach does. I think if he comes back to the midwest, with swirling winds, physical defenses, and Nebraska farmboys, he'll run more than he is in Orlando. I could be wrong about that. But I'd rather see that than Mike Leach throwing the ball 70 times in The Big House.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby deltbucs » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:26 am

Holy Miami homer in this thread. LOL!

To answer the question, I go with UCF. I happened to get free tickets to that Memphis game and they looked damned good in person.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:58 am

We will see here shortly how well that 20th ranked run defense holds up.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:42 am

Weird game, but UCF out rushed Navy. Defense looked really good for stretches but that damn prehistoric offense can still move the ball.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Alpha » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:30 pm

deltbucs wrote:Holy Miami homer in this thread. LOL!

To answer the question, I go with UCF. I happened to get free tickets to that Memphis game and they looked damned good in person.



You know I am.

I'm on record as saying that Miami will make the final 4. Not because they're the best team but (like Wisconsin), they have the easiest road. They (like Wisconsin) essentially have to win ONE game. The Conference Championship. Miami has to play Notre Dame so they have to win 2 tough games but you get the point.

UCF/USF have to play ZERO tough games. Navy. ****ing NAVY is UCF's "big win"? By 10!? You're kidding old Alpha, right?

Hell...USF hasn't even played anyone as good as...umm...Navy. They almost got beat by...TULANE. The MIGHTY GREEN WAVE. LMFAO!

Just stop with this minor league bullshit. WHEN and IF UCF and USF get into major conferences, people will take them seriously. Does that mean they CAN'T beat a major school? Of course not. ANY team can beat any other on any given day. The FACT that USF/UCF play in a bush league conference does disqualify them. It's unfortunate...I'd LOVE to see either school in the ACC/Big 12/15/21/Pac 10...they'd have a chance at recruiting better athletes and gain some notoriety. As of now...they're just afterthoughts and not taken seriously.

It is what it is.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:29 am

During the FSU game, the announcer said that Jimbo has coached four quarterbacks that went on to the NFL.

After Winston and Manuel, I'm at a loss who the other two are.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:07 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:During the FSU game, the announcer said that Jimbo has coached four quarterbacks that went on to the NFL.

After Winston and Manuel, I'm at a loss who the other two are.


Ponder and Jamarcus Russell, right?
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Super K » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:11 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:During the FSU game, the announcer said that Jimbo has coached four quarterbacks that went on to the NFL.

After Winston and Manuel, I'm at a loss who the other two are.


Ponder and Jamarcus Russell, right?


Yep..
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:15 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:During the FSU game, the announcer said that Jimbo has coached four quarterbacks that went on to the NFL.

After Winston and Manuel, I'm at a loss who the other two are.


Ponder and Jamarcus Russell, right?

Right on Ponder, but Russell went to LSU.

I have Ponder, then EJ Manuel, and Jameis Winston.

EDIT: I didn't know that Jimbo was on the staff at LSU during Russell's career there.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:17 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Ponder and Jamarcus Russell, right?

Right on Ponder, but Russell went to LSU.

I have Ponder, then EJ Manuel, and Jameis Winston.


I think Jimbo was OC at LSU with Russell there
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby PanteraCanes » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:18 am

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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:47 am

Alpha wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Holy Miami homer in this thread. LOL!

To answer the question, I go with UCF. I happened to get free tickets to that Memphis game and they looked damned good in person.



You know I am.

I'm on record as saying that Miami will make the final 4. Not because they're the best team but (like Wisconsin), they have the easiest road. They (like Wisconsin) essentially have to win ONE game. The Conference Championship. Miami has to play Notre Dame so they have to win 2 tough games but you get the point.

UCF/USF have to play ZERO tough games. Navy. ****ing NAVY is UCF's "big win"? By 10!? You're kidding old Alpha, right?

Hell...USF hasn't even played anyone as good as...umm...Navy. They almost got beat by...TULANE. The MIGHTY GREEN WAVE. LMFAO!

Just stop with this minor league bullshit. WHEN and IF UCF and USF get into major conferences, people will take them seriously. Does that mean they CAN'T beat a major school? Of course not. ANY team can beat any other on any given day. The FACT that USF/UCF play in a bush league conference does disqualify them. It's unfortunate...I'd LOVE to see either school in the ACC/Big 12/15/21/Pac 10...they'd have a chance at recruiting better athletes and gain some notoriety. As of now...they're just afterthoughts and not taken seriously.

It is what it is.

You didn't watch the Navy game, did you?
UCF has talent that is on par with the big schools. Go watch Adrian Killins TD run for 75 yards.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby BucJordan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:44 pm

Alpha wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Holy Miami homer in this thread. LOL!

To answer the question, I go with UCF. I happened to get free tickets to that Memphis game and they looked damned good in person.



You know I am.

I'm on record as saying that Miami will make the final 4. Not because they're the best team but (like Wisconsin), they have the easiest road. They (like Wisconsin) essentially have to win ONE game. The Conference Championship. Miami has to play Notre Dame so they have to win 2 tough games but you get the point.

UCF/USF have to play ZERO tough games. Navy. ****ing NAVY is UCF's "big win"? By 10!? You're kidding old Alpha, right?

Hell...USF hasn't even played anyone as good as...umm...Navy. They almost got beat by...TULANE. The MIGHTY GREEN WAVE. LMFAO!

Just stop with this minor league bullshit. WHEN and IF UCF and USF get into major conferences, people will take them seriously. Does that mean they CAN'T beat a major school? Of course not. ANY team can beat any other on any given day. The FACT that USF/UCF play in a bush league conference does disqualify them. It's unfortunate...I'd LOVE to see either school in the ACC/Big 12/15/21/Pac 10...they'd have a chance at recruiting better athletes and gain some notoriety. As of now...they're just afterthoughts and not taken seriously.

It is what it is.


If your point is that being in a P5 conference would help UCF/USF in the polls by giving them stronger conference schedules, lead to better recruiting, etc...Well, yeah.

But I'm not sure what you mean by people "taking them seriously". Both teams are steadily moving up the rankings with each win. Hell, UCF made the Fiesta Bowl even with one loss a few years back with Bortles. Given, they had a tougher out of conference schedule that year but also had closer games with inferior teams - one-score wins against Temple, USF, Houston, and SMU. UCF's biggest "slip" has been only beating Navy by 10, but rounded it out pretty well beating Maryland and Memphis by 4 scores each.

Anyway, my point is that being in the AAC isn't going to keep them or USF from being the best team in Florida or being "taken seriously" by the folks that matter. All they need to do is keep winning. The weaker schedule just means it's a longer ladder to climb and no margin for error. But if they take care of business we're looking at a Black Friday game with both teams in the top 12, and the winner going to a NY6 Bowl. Admittedly the Playoff is very unlikely as I don't think a undefeated USF/UCF makes it over a one loss P5 team unless that loss is really ugly and towards the end of the year. But if they start 2018 in the top 25 they have a shot.

Hell, I'm really glad you brought up Wisconsin. Look at that schedule. What is their signature win? They beat FAU by a smaller margin than Navy. They beat Maryland at home by a smaller margin than UCF on the road. Look at their schedules and records and try to convince me UCF wouldn't still be 7-0 and win the B10 West with that schedule. :lol:

In short, It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe behind his keyboard takes us seriously as long as the Bowl Selection Committee does. But for the long term growth of the program I sincerely hope we can force our way into a P5 conference in the near future.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:56 pm

BucJordan wrote:
Alpha wrote:

You know I am.

I'm on record as saying that Miami will make the final 4. Not because they're the best team but (like Wisconsin), they have the easiest road. They (like Wisconsin) essentially have to win ONE game. The Conference Championship. Miami has to play Notre Dame so they have to win 2 tough games but you get the point.

UCF/USF have to play ZERO tough games. Navy. ****ing NAVY is UCF's "big win"? By 10!? You're kidding old Alpha, right?

Hell...USF hasn't even played anyone as good as...umm...Navy. They almost got beat by...TULANE. The MIGHTY GREEN WAVE. LMFAO!

Just stop with this minor league bullshit. WHEN and IF UCF and USF get into major conferences, people will take them seriously. Does that mean they CAN'T beat a major school? Of course not. ANY team can beat any other on any given day. The FACT that USF/UCF play in a bush league conference does disqualify them. It's unfortunate...I'd LOVE to see either school in the ACC/Big 12/15/21/Pac 10...they'd have a chance at recruiting better athletes and gain some notoriety. As of now...they're just afterthoughts and not taken seriously.

It is what it is.


If your point is that being in a P5 conference would help UCF/USF in the polls by giving them stronger conference schedules, lead to better recruiting, etc...Well, yeah.

But I'm not sure what you mean by people "taking them seriously". Both teams are steadily moving up the rankings with each win. Hell, UCF made the Fiesta Bowl even with one loss a few years back with Bortles. Given, they had a tougher out of conference schedule that year but also had closer games with inferior teams - one-score wins against Temple, USF, Houston, and SMU. UCF's biggest "slip" has been only beating Navy by 10, but rounded it out pretty well beating Maryland and Memphis by 4 scores each.

Anyway, my point is that being in the AAC isn't going to keep them or USF from being the best team in Florida or being "taken seriously" by the folks that matter. All they need to do is keep winning. The weaker schedule just means it's a longer ladder to climb and no margin for error. But if they take care of business we're looking at a Black Friday game with both teams in the top 12, and the winner going to a NY6 Bowl. Admittedly the Playoff is very unlikely as I don't think a undefeated USF/UCF makes it over a one loss P5 team unless that loss is really ugly and towards the end of the year. But if they start 2018 in the top 25 they have a shot.

Hell, I'm really glad you brought up Wisconsin. Look at that schedule. What is their signature win? They beat FAU by a smaller margin than Navy. They beat Maryland at home by a smaller margin than UCF on the road. Look at their schedules and records and try to convince me UCF wouldn't still be 7-0 and win the B10 West with that schedule. :lol:

In short, It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe behind his keyboard takes us seriously as long as the Bowl Selection Committee does. But for the long term growth of the program I sincerely hope we can force our way into a P5 conference in the near future.


You basically argued against yourself here. USF/UCF won't be taken seriously ala have a chance at the playoffs, until they join a P5 conference. Wisconsin, with their schedule, could make the playoffs. It's not about Joe Schmoe, it's about the comittee. I think it would be difficult for either team to get in over a 2 loss team like Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, or Ohio State. I'm very confident they wouldn't get in over a major P5 school with 1 loss. It's just how it is. It doesn't matter if you think they would be 7-0 in the B10 West or not.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:02 pm

All that is cool, usc, but the discussion is about Best Team in Florida, not the team highest rated in the polls due to the bias of an inherently subjective and flawed measurement system.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 pm

Ken Carson wrote:All that is cool, usc, but the discussion is about Best Team in Florida, not the team highest rated in the polls due to the bias of an inherently subjective and flawed measurement system.


I agree that either can be in the discussion with best team in Florida, but he started talking about bowl games and conferences. Being in a P5 does make you relevant in the playoff discussion.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby BucJordan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:51 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
BucJordan wrote:
If your point is that being in a P5 conference would help UCF/USF in the polls by giving them stronger conference schedules, lead to better recruiting, etc...Well, yeah.

But I'm not sure what you mean by people "taking them seriously". Both teams are steadily moving up the rankings with each win. Hell, UCF made the Fiesta Bowl even with one loss a few years back with Bortles. Given, they had a tougher out of conference schedule that year but also had closer games with inferior teams - one-score wins against Temple, USF, Houston, and SMU. UCF's biggest "slip" has been only beating Navy by 10, but rounded it out pretty well beating Maryland and Memphis by 4 scores each.

Anyway, my point is that being in the AAC isn't going to keep them or USF from being the best team in Florida or being "taken seriously" by the folks that matter. All they need to do is keep winning. The weaker schedule just means it's a longer ladder to climb and no margin for error. But if they take care of business we're looking at a Black Friday game with both teams in the top 12, and the winner going to a NY6 Bowl. Admittedly the Playoff is very unlikely as I don't think a undefeated USF/UCF makes it over a one loss P5 team unless that loss is really ugly and towards the end of the year. But if they start 2018 in the top 25 they have a shot.

Hell, I'm really glad you brought up Wisconsin. Look at that schedule. What is their signature win? They beat FAU by a smaller margin than Navy. They beat Maryland at home by a smaller margin than UCF on the road. Look at their schedules and records and try to convince me UCF wouldn't still be 7-0 and win the B10 West with that schedule. :lol:

In short, It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe behind his keyboard takes us seriously as long as the Bowl Selection Committee does. But for the long term growth of the program I sincerely hope we can force our way into a P5 conference in the near future.


You basically argued against yourself here. USF/UCF won't be taken seriously ala have a chance at the playoffs, until they join a P5 conference. Wisconsin, with their schedule, could make the playoffs. It's not about Joe Schmoe, it's about the comittee. I think it would be difficult for either team to get in over a 2 loss team like Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, or Ohio State. I'm very confident they wouldn't get in over a major P5 school with 1 loss. It's just how it is. It doesn't matter if you think they would be 7-0 in the B10 West or not.


The Wisconsin comparison was in response to Alpha's signature win argument, that's all. If Wisconsin makes the playoff they will have had to earn it in the B10 Championship, but right now they're ranked 11 spots ahead of us because they started the year at #11, not because what they've done on the field is significantly more impressive. Which goes back to what I said before - the ladder takes longer to climb outside the P5 but its not impossible to be " taken seriously". This year an undefeated UCF/USF gets a NY6 bowl, which most people would consider being taken seriously. Not to mention probably a preseason top 10-15 ranking, which puts the playoffs in reach in 2018.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:45 pm

BucJordan wrote:
Hell, I'm really glad you brought up Wisconsin. Look at that schedule. What is their signature win? They beat FAU by a smaller margin than Navy. They beat Maryland at home by a smaller margin than UCF on the road. Look at their schedules and records and try to convince me UCF wouldn't still be 7-0 and win the B10 West with that schedule. :lol:

In short, It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe behind his keyboard takes us seriously as long as the Bowl Selection Committee does. But for the long term growth of the program I sincerely hope we can force our way into a P5 conference in the near future.


This is the argument I've heard from UCF and (even further back) USF fan for years.

The fact is...IF USF/UCF were playing in the B10, they most likely wouldn't be undefeated. Week in/week out, they'd have much tougher games...even against the B10 bottom feeders, than they would against the BEST AAC teams....much less the AAC bottom feeders. USF has been playing Miami on a fairly regular basis...unfortunately not this year. UCF has struggled for the last couple of years (to say the least). Again (I've already mentioned this), the USF/UCF's of the world are good for a year or maybe 2, at a time. They have athletes that tend to stay for 4 years (less talented athletes, thus not drafted as underclassmen). Then they struggle as they turn over their upper-classmen.

And, as I've already stated, Wisconsin isn't my pick to be the BEST team in the B10...they have the easiest road. And IF they make the tournament, their "signature" win would be over PSU or OSU. 'Nough said.

I appreciate the UCF homer-ism...you're having a great YEAR. Good on ya. As long as UCF/USF remain in the AAC, their success can't and won't be sustained. The fact that these schools are in Florida (and playing in a weak conference) are the ONLY reasons they're having the success they're currently having. NEITHER school has committed the necessary resources to provide the facilities to attract 4 and 5 star recruits, over a period of YEARS. Hell...they're doing well to snag the occasional 3 star. Again...Florida.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:40 am

Everything you just posted has been true about the Canes for 12 years. The ACC has been FSU and the AAC for a long time.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:17 am

You can measure the hurt by how many games were cancelled.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby BucJordan » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:35 pm

Alpha wrote:
BucJordan wrote:
I appreciate the UCF homer-ism...you're having a great YEAR. Good on ya. As long as UCF/USF remain in the AAC, their success can't and won't be sustained. The fact that these schools are in Florida (and playing in a weak conference) are the ONLY reasons they're having the success they're currently having. NEITHER school has committed the necessary resources to provide the facilities to attract 4 and 5 star recruits, over a period of YEARS. Hell...they're doing well to snag the occasional 3 star. Again...Florida.


UCF's 2017 recruiting class has over fifteen 3 star recruits and included three 4 stars (247Sports). It was better ranked than a rather large handful of P5 teams. Our current roster includes 60 3*, 4 4* and one 5* recruit (a transfer from Oregon), and has more composite talent than:

Iowa State
Oregon State
Washington State
Indiana
Syracuse
Minnesota
Purdue
Illinois
Boston College
Wake Forest
Kansas
Kansas State

No one is confusing us with Alabama but it's a talent level that can compete with your average P5 team. They key is doing what it takes to keep Scott Frost, because the recruiting classes should only get better moving forward if he stays.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Buc2 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:06 pm

BucJordan wrote:
Alpha wrote:


UCF's 2017 recruiting class has over fifteen 3 star recruits and included three 4 stars (247Sports). It was better ranked than a rather large handful of P5 teams. Our current roster includes 60 3*, 4 4* and one 5* recruit (a transfer from Oregon), and has more composite talent than:

Iowa State
Oregon State
Washington State
Indiana
Syracuse
Minnesota
Purdue
Illinois
Boston College
Wake Forest
Kansas
Kansas State

No one is confusing us with Alabama but it's a talent level that can compete with your average P5 team. They key is doing what it takes to keep Scott Frost, because the recruiting classes should only get better moving forward if he stays.

That's quite a bit better than USF. They have 1 4-star recruit (Darnell Salomon 2016 class). That's it. None higher than 3 (so far) on the 2018 list either. If they can play in a decent bowl this year and hold onto Charlie Strong, maybe that will get better. But, yeah...until USF can find their way into a P5 conference, this is about as good as it's going to get for my Alma Mater, unfortunately.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Kress » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:10 am

Alpha wrote:The one decent part of FSU is their defense.



Sorry, but... :birdiedoublegreen:
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Nano » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:26 pm

Bad week for Florida schools
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Teitan » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:47 pm

Nano wrote:Bad week for Florida schools



UCF 7-0

:D
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Moozician » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:06 pm

Teitan wrote:
Nano wrote:Bad week for Florida schools



UCF 7-0

:D

And THAT pretty much answers the question.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:21 pm

It has been fun to hear Alpha use ancient history to blather on about this season. FSU can't hang with Boston College. Miami meekly won against 1-8 UNC. And if you actually watch the games, you're seeing that UCF and USF have athletes that rival their intrastate counterparts.

Watch the catch for a TD at 3:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVPbzgPuE0c
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Alpha » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:19 am

Honestly...I have ZERO hate for USF/UCF. I really do hope they do well. As well as FIU or FAU. That doesn't change the reality.

USF and UCF are two of the largest schools in the COUNTRY. They should be able to produce/recruit on a consistent basis, against every school in Florida.

THEY DON'T.

Their facilities are sub-par...even against Miami (which has some of the worst facilities of any "major" school in the country). I speak about Miami because that's the FL school I know the most about. UM is a relatively small, private school. There is absolutely ZERO reason why USF/UCF shouldn't be able to out-recruit and OUT-SPEND Miami.

Yet...they don't. And until those schools take their football programs seriously...they won't.

This year?...I would LOVE to see UCF and USF play in a New Years game against a MAJOR school...and one of them likely will. This year, they will have a great shot a beating the major schools they face because they are both really good teams.

Next year? The year after? When USF loses Flowers? They'll be mediocre again. Same with UCF (when they lose Frost). Both struggling to be also-rans in the AAC. With SMU. Temple. And who the **** ever.

With USF, the problem is the administration. It's fairly well known here in Tampa, that the administration is more concerned about building the schools academic reputation and the athletic side gets short-shrift. It's a shame because USF could be on par with other major, Florida teams. Maybe they will, one day. Who knows.

This isn't about THIS YEAR. It's about the Program. And USF and UCF are also-rans. They just are and I'm sorry if you're all butt-hurt for the reality check.
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Re: Best Team in Florida

Postby Ken Carson » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:56 am

When was the last time that Miami played in a New Year's Day bowl? Nevermind, I looked it up. They haven't played in a New Year's Day bowl since 2004. Plenty of recent visits to the Russel Athletic and Sun Bowls though.

You are using ancient history to formulate your argument. I'm extremely confident that UCF would run Miami off the field if they played this season.
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