In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select....

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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:08 am

MJW wrote:I get it Alpha. I totally do. Frankly, I didn't really want to fire Schiano for exactly the reasons you're saying. He didn't get a fair shake to show what he could do. He inherited a toxic player in Freeman leading a bad roster, and then he did a few goofy things that let the media write the narrative of his tenure. If he gets 2014, with HIS quarterback, and a healthy Revis, etc, things might be different.

I just don't have that vibe at all with Koetter. It feels much more like it did with Raheem. We hired a guy internally who nobody else had any interest in hiring, but who we were afraid to lose. He had some encouraging traits as an assistant (Koetter much, much more than Raheem) but we were projecting that onto a job he probably wasn't suited for. Both of these guys struck me as example of trying too hard to maintain continuity, not a disruption of it, you know? Do either of them win an open competition for the coaching job based on their resumes and interviews? I doubt it.

I'm all for building an investment portfolio instead of buying a lotto ticket. I know that's what you think we'd be doing here. But when you look at the regression from top to bottom, the lack of killer instinct, the poor game day decision-making...I don't feel like there's any chance this ends well at this point. And if I did, seeing him standing there half-asleep during the Evans brawl sealed it for me.


Please don't make me pull out all of the threads over the last 2 years, where Koetter was "The Guy" and we were PRAYING Smith wasn't hired away as a head coach to another team...LAST YEAR.

It would be embarrassing for all of you. (not YOU specifically).

Y'all REALLY think this is a coaching problem? LMFAO!

How many times do I have to say this before you all listen?

This is a PLAYER problem...not a COACHING problem.

Until we (as a fan base) understand, we'll be Cleveland. Learn to love it.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:18 am

MJW wrote:I'm all for building an investment portfolio instead of buying a lotto ticket. I know that's what you think we'd be doing here. But when you look at the regression from top to bottom, the lack of killer instinct, the poor game day decision-making...I don't feel like there's any chance this ends well at this point. And if I did, seeing him standing there half-asleep during the Evans brawl sealed it for me.


And this is where the "group think" becomes "This was a mistake. This isn't the right guy. Etc. Etc."


You can make all of the excuses you choose to make. In the span of 8 months, Koetter has become a moron and a bad coach. I get it.

The FACT is that 8 months ago, as a fan base, we were LOVING THIS STAFF. We were PRAYING Smith didn't leave to take a coaching gig somewhere else.

This line of thought is EXACTLY why we are the Browns and cycle through staffs every 2 years. YOU are making the same, lame excuses that every losing organization makes.

Sigh...think what you want to think. Until this mentality changes, this franchise won't.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:41 am

Sure. OR his flaws are being clearly exposed the longer he coaches here (as evidenced by our pathetic underachieving performance), and he's given us no reason to think he's capable of correcting them.

Both are possibilities.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:07 am

Also, we were either all idiots last year for overrating the guy, or we're all idiots now for underrating him. It really can't be both.

I'd like to point something out...People like you and I laud teams that stick with struggling coaches...and instinctively, it feels right to do so. It's how smart people approach life.

Yet...I mean...does that actually WORK OUT in the modern NFL? I can think of one or two examples in the last 20 years of teams sticking with struggling coaches and getting rewarded. Tom Coughlin comes to mind with the mid-2000s Giants. But Tom Coughlin also had a long track record of success in the NFL before he got that job.

On the other hand, you've got guys like Gus Bradley, who got two more years than most people wanted and ended up with the worst winning percentage in NFL history for a coach who kept his job that long.

You've got Jeff Fisher, who got 2 or 3 years more than some wanted, and ended up with the most losses in a coaching career.

You've got stiffs like Mike McCoy, Jason Garrett (who's still doing it), Brad Childress, Rex Ryan with the Jets, Marvin Lewis (because the wildcard game is fun!), Chuck Pagano, and a bunch of others if I want to go back a few years...and their teams stuck with them (or currently are sticking with them) despite the bloody obviousness that they didn't have it, because stability.

We all love to talk about the Steelers having 3 coaches in 40 years, or Tom Landry not having a winning year until his 7th season, and that's great. But sticking with a loser seems to waste everyone's time more often than not. Especially when that coach doesn't have a track record. You can stick with a guy like Tom Coughlin or Sean Payton, who've proven they can win in the league. But sometimes guys just aren't good coaches. What about Koetter tells you he's not just a bad hire at this point?
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Doctor » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:08 am

Y'all act like we haven't been throwing away top picks at defense for years now.

Also- you know what has really brought the Jags defense (which has been supremely talented and "up and coming" for years now) to the next level? LEONARD. ****ing. FOURNETTE. It's amazing how some of you miss the symbiosis of the game. A steady offense, a good run game, does wonders for a defense. You know what kills a defense? Constant 3 and outs by the offense.

I've been saying it for years, the cowbell RB isn't dead, it's not a "committee" league. The NFL just suffered through a major lack of RB talent for a while is all. Committees only exist as long as none of the RBs are going very well, because as soon as one does emerge the committee tends to end. Unless your back up is also supremely talented/schemed for (3rd down back?), even then you still have one guy get 2/3rds of the carries. But the talent is back. Bell, Gurley, Zeke, Fournette, Cook, Hunt.... the era of the cowbell has returned. Barkley is one of those supreme talents. And y'all want to keep chasing Gaines Adams.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:16 am

Doctor wrote:Y'all act like we haven't been throwing away top picks at defense for years now.

Also- you know what has really brought the Jags defense (which has been supremely talented and "up and coming" for years now) to the next level? LEONARD. ****ing. FOURNETTE. It's amazing how some of you miss the symbiosis of the game. A steady offense, a good run game, does wonders for a defense. You know what kills a defense? Constant 3 and outs by the offense.

I've been saying it for years, the cowbell RB isn't dead, it's not a "committee" league. The NFL just suffered through a major lack of RB talent for a while is all. Committees only exist as long as none of the RBs are going very well, because as soon as one does emerge the committee tends to end. Unless your back up is also supremely talented/schemed for (3rd down back?), even then you still have one guy get 2/3rds of the carries. But the talent is back. Bell, Gurley, Zeke, Fournette, Cook, Hunt.... the era of the cowbell has returned. Barkley is one of those supreme talents. And y'all want to keep chasing Gaines Adams.


Or Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Clowney, Watt, or a host of other edge rushers drafted top 10 that are difference makers for their team. Gaines Adams being a bust over a decade ago doesn't mean we should ignore the position. RBs bust too.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Doctor » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:17 am

MJW wrote:We all love to talk about the Steelers having 3 coaches in 40 years, or Tom Landry not having a winning year until his 7th season, and that's great. But sticking with a loser seems to waste everyone's time more often than not. Especially when that coach doesn't have a track record. You can stick with a guy like Tom Coughlin or Sean Payton, who've proven they can win in the league. But sometimes guys just aren't good coaches. What about Koetter tells you he's not just a bad hire at this point?

Kind of playing with a stacked deck there. Can't really bring up modern day example of sticking with a losing coach and being rewarded because people don't stick with coaches! Lovie Smith is literally a track record, stick with him coach and even he got fired. So no, you don't get examples of that anymore because it's rarely tried. The only modern day one is Gus Bradley. And Kudos to the Jags for doing so. (Can't wait for "Jags are winning with Gus's team!" threads) But that's really it.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:33 am

Jags kept their GM Dave Caldwell didn't they? I thought they just changed coaches and brought Tom Coughlin to oversee operations. Caldwell may have lost final say on the 53, but he and his staff are still doing player evaluations and stacking the board.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Doctor » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:37 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Doctor wrote:Y'all act like we haven't been throwing away top picks at defense for years now.

Also- you know what has really brought the Jags defense (which has been supremely talented and "up and coming" for years now) to the next level? LEONARD. ****ing. FOURNETTE. It's amazing how some of you miss the symbiosis of the game. A steady offense, a good run game, does wonders for a defense. You know what kills a defense? Constant 3 and outs by the offense.

I've been saying it for years, the cowbell RB isn't dead, it's not a "committee" league. The NFL just suffered through a major lack of RB talent for a while is all. Committees only exist as long as none of the RBs are going very well, because as soon as one does emerge the committee tends to end. Unless your back up is also supremely talented/schemed for (3rd down back?), even then you still have one guy get 2/3rds of the carries. But the talent is back. Bell, Gurley, Zeke, Fournette, Cook, Hunt.... the era of the cowbell has returned. Barkley is one of those supreme talents. And y'all want to keep chasing Gaines Adams.


Or Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Clowney, Watt, or a host of other edge rushers drafted top 10 that are difference makers for their team. Gaines Adams being a bust over a decade ago doesn't mean we should ignore the position. RBs bust too.

You're right, and with the exception of Watt, everyone saw them coming from a mile away. Garrett (will be) is another one. And that's fine. And don't get me wrong, I like Chudd, I do, I'd love to get him. But he is not on their level, not even close. Heck, many still think Key is better. But Barkley is on the level of the guys I mentioned and he is miles ahead of everyone else in his position... heck, I'd say all positions.

My point is because we need a DE you guys are making the (arguably) best DE in the class seem like he's "next level elite". Just like we did with Gaines. Just because he may be the best in his position doesn't make him an instant elite prospect. He's good. Very good. Top notch. Not on Barkleys level, not even close. He's not even on Minkah Fitzpatrick or Quenton Nelson's level.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Doctor » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:45 am

Cheb wrote:The more I watch him, the more I want Quenton Nelson. People would howl and moan about taking an offensive guard in the top five... but he's just that good.

I agree with you. I'd take him over Mike McGlinchey, despite our bigger need for a tackle.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:06 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:If we are looking for blueprints from last year, I would copy what the Jags did. Throw big money at a FA like Demarcus Lawrence (Calais Campbell), and then go RB/OL with the first 2 picks in the draft (like the Jags did with Fournette and Cam Robinson) in Barkley and BPA OL early Day 2.


We need more than 1 EDGE rusher imo. Noah Spence shouldn't be relied upon to be anything more than a back-up situational rusher.

I'm not against going after a FA like Lawrence (although he's one failed drug test from a 1-year suspension). But I'd like to draft a guy round 1 and sign a FA. Maybe trade for vet also. I have no desire to bring Robert Ayers back in 2018.

I'm not against RB/OT in round 1. We'll see where we end up drafting, but there are no OT's worth a top 10 pick imo. None of the top guys like Williams, Brown, or McGlinchey look like franchise LTs and I don't think any go top 10. Tbh I like the Okorafor kid from Western Michigan almost as much as those 3. There will be some nice RBs to draft and I think Doug Martin will not be back next season. But I doubt we draft a 1st round RB.

But I get what you're saying. We avoided addressing the running game which struggled last season and instead thought moving Marpet and Sweezy returning would be enough. We can't avoid upgrading the run game 2 years in a row so I expect some new faces at RB in addition to a new face along the Oline.

I think the Marpet-Sweezy-Dotson part of the Oline is safe. Pamphile is FA we'll likely let walk since we didn't even play him full-time this season, and Evan Smith has an expiring contract in addition to being on the wrong side of 30. Donovan Smith could probably use a position change also, but you can't move him unless you have a better replacement and I'm not sure any of these prospects are.


It all depends on what's available. If a Joey Bosa level of DE is available at our pick, get him. If a Laremy Tunsil at OT is there, get him. If a Jalen Ramsey at CB is there, get him. If a Ezekial Elliott at RB is there, get him.

Just looking at this draft and where we might be picking though, I only see an Ezekial Elliott in Saquan Barkley. Then follow that up with an OT in round 2 to push Donovan Smith inside to guard. Hopefully those moves are preceded by a Demarcus Lawrence signing in FA.

That's the blueprint for a 1 season turn around into a a playoff team. We are way too commited to Jameis to move on from, as well it's definitely too early. But we desperately need to get this an elite run game. It really would open things up for him and help him take his game to the next level. Our offence could be saved and it's the best chance we have for Jameis to put it together.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Ask 5: Which college football edge rusher is best NFL prospect?

We've seen rookie edge rushers make an immediate impact in the NFL over the last few seasons. Guys like Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa and (when healthy) Myles Garrett have shown the ability to dominate NFL offensive tackles. So, who's next? I reached out to five NFL executives and asked them which college edge rusher is the best NFL prospect. Here are their answers.

Executive 1: LSU's Arden Key
"(Key) has been improving each week. Best speed rusher with length and a great motor when he's in shape."

Executive 2: Key
"It's Key (based on) who I've seen, but I don't love him at all. He plays with a serious governor. I haven't seen the N.C. State kid (Bradley Chubb), who I'm hearing is pretty good."

Executive 3: N.C. State's Bradley Chubb
"Chubb is the guy. I love his combination of size, quicks, power and relentlessness. He's in the backfield a lot ... go watch the Louisville game."

Executive 4: Chubb
"Chubb can play both the run and pass, he's good with his hands, has a high motor, great instincts. He's not an elite rusher but he's very good."

Executive 5: Chubb
"I thought it would be Key, but he's not the same guy this year. I'd go with Chubb. Great player and his motor never stops."

Summary: That's 3 votes for Chubb and 2 for Key.

Conclusion: This was a 2-man competition between Chubb and Key. I would take Chubb over Key based on what I saw from them earlier this fall, although it sounds like Key has been playing much better lately -- 5 of his 5.5 tackles for loss this season have come in the past 3 games. I was a little surprised Boston College's Harold Landry didn't receive any votes. He's a natural edge rusher with the ability to bend, wrap and finish on the edge.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:57 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Ask 5: Which college football edge rusher is best NFL prospect?

We've seen rookie edge rushers make an immediate impact in the NFL over the last few seasons. Guys like Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa and (when healthy) Myles Garrett have shown the ability to dominate NFL offensive tackles. So, who's next? I reached out to five NFL executives and asked them which college edge rusher is the best NFL prospect. Here are their answers.

Executive 1: LSU's Arden Key
"(Key) has been improving each week. Best speed rusher with length and a great motor when he's in shape."

Executive 2: Key
"It's Key (based on) who I've seen, but I don't love him at all. He plays with a serious governor. I haven't seen the N.C. State kid (Bradley Chubb), who I'm hearing is pretty good."

Executive 3: N.C. State's Bradley Chubb
"Chubb is the guy. I love his combination of size, quicks, power and relentlessness. He's in the backfield a lot ... go watch the Louisville game."

Executive 4: Chubb
"Chubb can play both the run and pass, he's good with his hands, has a high motor, great instincts. He's not an elite rusher but he's very good."

Executive 5: Chubb
"I thought it would be Key, but he's not the same guy this year. I'd go with Chubb. Great player and his motor never stops."

Summary: That's 3 votes for Chubb and 2 for Key.

Conclusion: This was a 2-man competition between Chubb and Key. I would take Chubb over Key based on what I saw from them earlier this fall, although it sounds like Key has been playing much better lately -- 5 of his 5.5 tackles for loss this season have come in the past 3 games. I was a little surprised Boston College's Harold Landry didn't receive any votes. He's a natural edge rusher with the ability to bend, wrap and finish on the edge.


The red is why I don't want Chubb.

Part of the reason we've totally failed to find an elite pass rusher since, literally, the day Simeon Rice was signed is right there. Because we've drafted/signed a lot of guys with good traits, but you know, they're not really elite rusher prospects. I think Chubb is another one. A guy who'll get 8 sacks and generally make your defense better but will never be JPP or Chandler Jones or Justin Houston or whoever, notching nearly a sack a game and terrifying DCs. I don't want to use a top five pick on a guy who ISN'T that.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:04 am

Doctor wrote:
MJW wrote:We all love to talk about the Steelers having 3 coaches in 40 years, or Tom Landry not having a winning year until his 7th season, and that's great. But sticking with a loser seems to waste everyone's time more often than not. Especially when that coach doesn't have a track record. You can stick with a guy like Tom Coughlin or Sean Payton, who've proven they can win in the league. But sometimes guys just aren't good coaches. What about Koetter tells you he's not just a bad hire at this point?

Kind of playing with a stacked deck there. Can't really bring up modern day example of sticking with a losing coach and being rewarded because people don't stick with coaches! Lovie Smith is literally a track record, stick with him coach and even he got fired. So no, you don't get examples of that anymore because it's rarely tried. The only modern day one is Gus Bradley. And Kudos to the Jags for doing so. (Can't wait for "Jags are winning with Gus's team!" threads) But that's really it.


I gave several examples of teams sticking with bad coaches longer than most wanted - Gus Bradley, Jeff Fisher, Marvin Lewis, Mike McCoy, Jason Garrett, Rex Ryan etc. How many made a good decision in doing so?

Coaches can certainly grow and improve like anyone else. It would be foolish to claim otherwise. And some guys, they are good coaches who are overwhelmed by terrible circumstances (like Belichick in Cleveland.) BUT...while we fiddle with Dirk Koetter and hope he gets it by year five and/or his 60th birthday, the Rams, Eagles, Bills, Jaguars, and possibly Dolphins and Titans, are getting ready for playoff runs or Superbowl runs with 1st or 2nd year head coaches.

For the most part, if a guy is a good coach, he's a good coach. Good coaches can become great coaches. But bad coaches rarely become good coaches. If Koetter is a bad coach (and it certainly seems that way), I don't see any point in showing everyone who patient we are as a franchise by sticking with him hoping he'll wake up a good one.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:19 am

I would humbly suggest that since Jon Gruden, almost all of our problems have stemmed from our unorthodox approach to hiring coaches, not that we fired them too soon.

Raheem Morris was a low-level assistant who was about to start his first year as a middle-manager when he was named Coach. It was an internal hire and there wasn't even the specter of competition or a search for the job. And it happened well after most coaches are dismissed by their teams, after the rest of the league had been interviewing heavily already.

Greg Schiano was a respected but unorthodox college coach from a small, bad program in a bad conference. He has scant experience in the NFL. He was on nobody's radar as an NFL head coach. And he was hired seemingly minutes after a bigger, more prominent, more successful college coach had spurned us. It felt very reactionary.

Lovie Smith made sense enough, except for the fact the whole thing felt more like a retirement party for an old friend than a return to greatness. Would anyone else have hired Smith if we hadn't, or would he have gone to college two years later? Based on how uninspired and dysfunctional the whole thing ended up being, I doubt his heart was in it - couldn't OBP sense that? Anyway, I doubt that if he'd never coached here, he'd have been hired at that point. In other words, I doubt it was a fair competition for the job.

Dirk Koetter. Another internal hire. Another guy who likely wasn't on many's radar. Another competition-free hire without anything like open interviews.

The upshot is this - I don't think the problem is that we're letting these guys go too soon, in general. I think the problem is we don't follow anything like a conventional process when hiring them. Four coaches, not one of them was on anyone's else's wish list. None of them faced real competition for the job against people who WERE on the radar.

So how about this: This time, we bring in a half-dozen of the top coordinators, retreads, and possibly a college coach or two with NFL coaching experience, interview them, and hire the best one? Maybe just to see what happens?
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Nano » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:27 am

"Bucs promote DC Mike Smith to HC"
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:32 am

MJW wrote:
Doctor wrote:Kind of playing with a stacked deck there. Can't really bring up modern day example of sticking with a losing coach and being rewarded because people don't stick with coaches! Lovie Smith is literally a track record, stick with him coach and even he got fired. So no, you don't get examples of that anymore because it's rarely tried. The only modern day one is Gus Bradley. And Kudos to the Jags for doing so. (Can't wait for "Jags are winning with Gus's team!" threads) But that's really it.


I gave several examples of teams sticking with bad coaches longer than most wanted - Gus Bradley, Jeff Fisher, Marvin Lewis, Mike McCoy, Jason Garrett, Rex Ryan etc. How many made a good decision in doing so?


Ryan made 2 AFC Championship games. Lewis has been a consistent winner for YEARS. Garrett is NOW a "good coach"? After having (more than one) mediocre year?

I guess what I'm saying is...going 2-6 or 2 and whatever for a single year, doesn't equate to being a "bad coach".

Does it mean he's "good"? Not necessarily...however (back to my point), firing him or whoever is the coach, doesn't necessarily put us in a better position. And I'd argue that having done this for YEARS now...it puts us in a WORSE position. A Cleveland Browns position. I fail to understand why all of you don't see this.

Losers make excuses. Poor franchises make excuses.

WE are...and have been...making excuses for many years now. It's time to stop the insanity.

Koetter (and Smith) have had 1.5 years...what about Licht? What about our scouting staff? In MY view...this is the bigger issue. If you want to point fingers...this is where I'd start...
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:34 am

Nano wrote:"Bucs promote DC Mike Smith to HC"



Maybe you site a source?

Don't sell here, ***hole.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Nano » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:35 am

I was making a joke at MJW saying we should stop the non-conventional hires, hence the quotes and italics.


:|
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:12 am

Nano wrote:I was making a joke at MJW saying we should stop the non-conventional hires, hence the quotes and italics.


:|



Apparently, you aren't familiar with what it means to put something in quotes.

Go to school. Come back when you understand.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:54 am

If anyone should be canned, it should be Licht IMO. Not addressing the run game and pass rushing woes killed us. If you can't run the ball and can't rush the passer, you're in trouble.

I'd give the Koetter/Smith combo another year.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:08 pm

Kiper’s top 5
1 Barkley
2 Rosen
3 James
4 Fitzpatrick
5 Darnold

He had Chubb going 7th, Key 8th and Nelson 9th. Give me Barkley, James or Nelson. I don’t think Chubb is on the level of these 3.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:16 pm

Brazen331 wrote:Kiper’s top 5
1 Barkley
2 Rosen
3 James
4 Fitzpatrick
5 Darnold

He had Chubb going 7th, Key 8th and Nelson 9th. Give me Barkley, James or Nelson. I don’t think Chubb is on the level of these 3.

It depends where we're picking. If we end up picking in the 8-10 range then I think Chubb or Key start to be options, but ideally we're picking top 5 and a shot to land Barkley. If we miss out on Barkley I'm 100% down with Nelson. Plug him in at LG, and draft a RB Day 2. If those 2 are off the board, I'm game with James.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:31 pm

Taking a Guard top 10 would be a tough pill but I could get on board since building the trenches is never a bad move. It's just the guy would need to be a perennial All-Pro and 1st ballot HoF player to justify the pick, almost like drafting a kicker in round 2... but I digress.

We'll see where we end up drafting but I still like Arden Key, Derwin James, or Barkley as my top 3. Chubb is probably close to being in that group also and certainly wouldn't be disappointing if we drafted him.

I just think you can get a good Guard or RB early in round 2 as history has shown. It's far less likely to land a potential difference maker at EDGE rusher or in the secondary on day 2. So I think if we're drafting in the top 10 those 3-4 prospects would be atop my list for right now.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:37 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Taking a Guard top 10 would be a tough pill but I could get on board since building the trenches is never a bad move. It's just the guy would need to be a perennial All-Pro and 1st ballot HoF player to justify the pick, almost like drafting a kicker in round 2... but I digress.

We'll see where we end up drafting but I still like Arden Key, Derwin James, or Barkley as my top 3. Chubb is probably close to being in that group also and certainly wouldn't be disappointing if we drafted him.

I just think you can get a good Guard or RB early in round 2 as history has shown. It's far less likely to land a potential difference maker at EDGE rusher or in the secondary on day 2. So I think if we're drafting in the top 10 those 3-4 prospects would be atop my list for right now.


I haven't done all the homework yet on anyone, so I'm not being that definitive with it, but I think Nelson could be that special. As Mel Kiper said, Nelson is a guard that is fun to watch and you just don't see someone like him very often, a guy who just dominates opponents. He looks like the white boy version of Larry Allen to me.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby MJW » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:16 am

DreadNaught wrote:Taking a Guard top 10 would be a tough pill but I could get on board since building the trenches is never a bad move. It's just the guy would need to be a perennial All-Pro and 1st ballot HoF player to justify the pick, almost like drafting a kicker in round 2... but I digress.

We'll see where we end up drafting but I still like Arden Key, Derwin James, or Barkley as my top 3. Chubb is probably close to being in that group also and certainly wouldn't be disappointing if we drafted him.

I just think you can get a good Guard or RB early in round 2 as history has shown. It's far less likely to land a potential difference maker at EDGE rusher or in the secondary on day 2. So I think if we're drafting in the top 10 those 3-4 prospects would be atop my list for right now.


I like the kicker allusion because like you said, a guard would have to be SO FRIGGIN GOOD to justify that pick. I mean, not borderline Pro-Bowler. Not even occasional Pro-Bowler. He'd have to be in that conversation with Larry Allen, Steve Hutchinson, Zack Martin, etc, etc. I mean, literally great.

That's hard for me to sign off on, if not impossible. If you take Mike McGlinchey, and he's a solid 8-10 year starter, it's like, "Okay, that was fine." He can be Jeff Backus or Levi Jones or someone like that and you're happy with the pick. If you take a guard, he can't just be pretty good.

So...yeah...I don't know if I can do it. I didn't even like Davin Joseph that high, tbh. I think guards are for rounds 2-4. The Chargers got two excellent ones (Lamp and Feeney) at that point last year.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:Kiper’s top 5
1 Barkley
2 Rosen
3 James
4 Fitzpatrick
5 Darnold

He had Chubb going 7th, Key 8th and Nelson 9th. Give me Barkley, James or Nelson. I don’t think Chubb is on the level of these 3.

It depends where we're picking. If we end up picking in the 8-10 range then I think Chubb or Key start to be options, but ideally we're picking top 5 and a shot to land Barkley. If we miss out on Barkley I'm 100% down with Nelson. Plug him in at LG, and draft a RB Day 2. If those 2 are off the board, I'm game with James.



And now Jameis sucks and we need to draft ANOTHER QB?

You people are ****ing ridiculous.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Nano » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:47 am

Neither of those post mention drafting a QB...
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Alpha » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:42 am

Nano wrote:Neither of those post mention drafting a QB...



****. I saw Rosen, even though he said Barkley.

My bad.
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Re: In the 2018 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:36 am

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Taking a Guard top 10 would be a tough pill but I could get on board since building the trenches is never a bad move. It's just the guy would need to be a perennial All-Pro and 1st ballot HoF player to justify the pick, almost like drafting a kicker in round 2... but I digress.

We'll see where we end up drafting but I still like Arden Key, Derwin James, or Barkley as my top 3. Chubb is probably close to being in that group also and certainly wouldn't be disappointing if we drafted him.

I just think you can get a good Guard or RB early in round 2 as history has shown. It's far less likely to land a potential difference maker at EDGE rusher or in the secondary on day 2. So I think if we're drafting in the top 10 those 3-4 prospects would be atop my list for right now.


I like the kicker allusion because like you said, a guard would have to be SO FRIGGIN GOOD to justify that pick. I mean, not borderline Pro-Bowler. Not even occasional Pro-Bowler. He'd have to be in that conversation with Larry Allen, Steve Hutchinson, Zack Martin, etc, etc. I mean, literally great.

That's hard for me to sign off on, if not impossible. If you take Mike McGlinchey, and he's a solid 8-10 year starter, it's like, "Okay, that was fine." He can be Jeff Backus or Levi Jones or someone like that and you're happy with the pick. If you take a guard, he can't just be pretty good.

So...yeah...I don't know if I can do it. I didn't even like Davin Joseph that high, tbh. I think guards are for rounds 2-4. The Chargers got two excellent ones (Lamp and Feeney) at that point last year.


There’s no doubt you don’t want to draft a G in the top 10 but my feeling is if you have a potential top 5 pick you shouldn’t consider need all that much with a pick that high.

With a top 5 pick, I’m aiming for whatever guy is still available who has the potential to be the best in the league at his position in a few years.

It would not shock me if Barkley, James and Nelson did just that. For Chubb to become the best DE would be a major shocker. I don’t have a major issue with taking him but let’s trade down a few spots and aquire more assets to boot.
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