Christian McCaffrey

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Christian McCaffrey

Postby Naismith » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:38 pm

Thought this was an interesting tweet from Peter Schrager.

https://twitter.com/pschrags/status/849789267303964672

Here's one for Wednesday night. Heard from multiple front office execs over last few days. Feeling is now Christian McCaffery goes Top 10.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:58 pm

Naismith wrote:Thought this was an interesting tweet from Peter Schrager.

https://twitter.com/pschrags/status/849789267303964672

Here's one for Wednesday night. Heard from multiple front office execs over last few days. Feeling is now Christian McCaffery goes Top 10.


I can see him as a possibility for Carolina at 8 but I don't think any other team in the top 10 will pick him. Jags and Jets would really raise eyebrows if the took him that high.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Teitan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:01 pm

I like him. I'd be ok with him at 19 if Howard, Njoku, Cook are gone.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Good, wish him the best, but hope he's gone before 19 and pushes someone else down (Cook)
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Cheb » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:54 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Good, wish him the best, but hope he's gone before 19 and pushes someone else down (Cook)


Agreed.

Feel free to substitute your favorite prospect of choice in lieu of Cook, if that makes you happy. I'm Hoping for Howard.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:10 pm

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Good, wish him the best, but hope he's gone before 19 and pushes someone else down (Cook)


Agreed.

Feel free to substitute your favorite prospect of choice in lieu of Cook, if that makes you happy. I'm Hoping for Howard.


Oh I'd love Howard, but I've pretty much given up on him.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:49 pm

I know we like to laud Koetter's creativity, but what about his schemes or his history make anyone think he'll get the most out of a non-traditional back like McCaffrey? Where's the comp in his history? His backs have been used pretty traditionally throughout his coaching career. They've been productive, but it's a heckuva lot easier to comp MJD or Michael Turner to Doug Martin than it is McCaffrey. Are we really going to go with, "that one year Charles Sims was good?" as justification for using the 19th pick on a part-time running back/receiver?

I still don't see it, and McCaffrey has grown on me. It's not him. It's just not what I want for this team and this offense right now.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby MJW » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:54 pm

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Good, wish him the best, but hope he's gone before 19 and pushes someone else down (Cook)


Agreed.

Feel free to substitute your favorite prospect of choice in lieu of Cook, if that makes you happy. I'm Hoping for Howard.


Yeah, that ain't going to happen. I'm far from a Howard superfan but some GM will be. The watch starts at #4 and it ain't making it to #19.

Njoku. Ryan Ram. Peppers. Garrett Bolles. John Ross (which isn't going to happen either I fear.) That would be my fab five, and that's more or less set at this point. Forrest Lamp checks in IF we're serious about Marpet at Center.

In the, "reach, but I'm fine with it" category, I'd include Budda Baker, Charles Harris, and Evan Engram, who has grown on me.

I'm also not as horrified by the injuries to Sidney Jones or Marlon Humphrey as I'm supposed to be. Let them ease in behind Grimes. Four years of a great corner is better than five years of most other things. I'd be okay with that if the long-term medical is good.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:02 am

If Winston and Engram connected like he did with Brate - that could be damn scary good.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:10 am

I think Obi, Engram, and Kevin King are my favorite trade down thoughts. Speaking of King? Does anyone think he couldnt be a free safety?
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby MJW » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:34 am

mdb1958 wrote:I think Obi, Engram, and Kevin King are my favorite trade down thoughts. Speaking of King? Does anyone think he couldnt be a free safety?


Engram is a guy I'm paying attention to in recent weeks because I think there's an outside chance he's the pick (especially with Njoku probably out of range now.) With Jackson stretching the field, Engram could be a nightmare for defenses between the hashes. I don't like no-block H-back types in general but if you can draft, basically, healthy Jordan Reed, there are worse ways to use your first rounder.

I noticed Obi awhile back (shortly before he became a thing) but I dunno with him after watching him more. He might be a "looks like Tarzan" player. He doesn't play up to his size. He's not very physical. He's more of a "tweener" in that sense than Peppers is at SS.

Kevin King...no...he's too frail to play FS. You draft him as a boundary corner.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:53 am

I dunno, even before these guys go to camp you know they are thinking its time to man up. Frail sounds kinda harsh for a 200 lber.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:57 am

Time will tell about Tarzan - me - I think its the way they wanted him to play. When was the last time we had a safety make 118 tackles?


http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/ ... john-lynch
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:02 am

I'd like to hear an argument as to why Engram couldnt be a wide receiver for us. I still think about Humphries jitterbugging thru traffic with better blocking, he friggin moves north to south like a lightning bolt.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:33 am

MJW wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:I think Obi, Engram, and Kevin King are my favorite trade down thoughts. Speaking of King? Does anyone think he couldnt be a free safety?


Engram is a guy I'm paying attention to in recent weeks because I think there's an outside chance he's the pick (especially with Njoku probably out of range now.) With Jackson stretching the field, Engram could be a nightmare for defenses between the hashes. I don't like no-block H-back types in general but if you can draft, basically, healthy Jordan Reed, there are worse ways to use your first rounder.

I noticed Obi awhile back (shortly before he became a thing) but I dunno with him after watching him more. He might be a "looks like Tarzan" player. He doesn't play up to his size. He's not very physical. He's more of a "tweener" in that sense than Peppers is at SS.

Kevin King...no...he's too frail to play FS. You draft him as a boundary corner.

I really, really like Engram. I think I have him 14th on my big board at the moment. If we could trade down and take him, assuming noone we really love is there at 19, I'd be ecstatic.

In terms of Reed and Engram, this simulcam will knock your socks off: http://www.nfl.com/videos/simulcam/0ap3 ... ordan-Reed
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:23 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
MJW wrote:
Engram is a guy I'm paying attention to in recent weeks because I think there's an outside chance he's the pick (especially with Njoku probably out of range now.) With Jackson stretching the field, Engram could be a nightmare for defenses between the hashes. I don't like no-block H-back types in general but if you can draft, basically, healthy Jordan Reed, there are worse ways to use your first rounder.

I noticed Obi awhile back (shortly before he became a thing) but I dunno with him after watching him more. He might be a "looks like Tarzan" player. He doesn't play up to his size. He's not very physical. He's more of a "tweener" in that sense than Peppers is at SS.

Kevin King...no...he's too frail to play FS. You draft him as a boundary corner.

I really, really like Engram. I think I have him 14th on my big board at the moment. If we could trade down and take him, assuming noone we really love is there at 19, I'd be ecstatic.

In terms of Reed and Engram, this simulcam will knock your socks off: http://www.nfl.com/videos/simulcam/0ap3 ... ordan-Reed

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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:54 pm

Yeah, and he isn't some snowflake on the field either. I don't think he will be a good TE to run behind lined up next to the OT. Lined up in the slot, outside a more traditional blocking TE? Look out, imo. I like Engram quite a bit. I would take him ahead of Baker or Peppers. I think I would take him ahead of McCaffrey (who I like in a similar slot role) as well.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:08 pm

threadkiller wrote:Yeah, and he isn't some snowflake on the field either. I don't think he will be a good TE to run behind lined up next to the OT. Lined up in the slot, outside a more traditional blocking TE? Look out, imo. I like Engram quite a bit. I would take him ahead of Baker or Peppers. I think I would take him ahead of McCaffrey (who I like in a similar slot role) as well.


That's one aspect of Engram I think is underrated. I think everyone just views him as some freaky fast h-back, but the guy is physical and likes to block- even if he's light in the ass to play in-line.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:11 pm

Engram's inability to play inline at the NFL level is what will keep him out of the 1st round. You're not taking a slot receiver or h-back that high.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:29 pm

would be great to get him in the 2nd
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:25 pm

I would be pretty stoked to come out of our first 2 picks with Cook/Engram. I'm not sure either of those is very likely. I think that could make a good personnel group. Evans/Jackson, Brate, Cook at RB and Engram shifting between slot, 2nd TE, and h-back/FB type sets. Engram is the type of player that lets you be diverse, while running no huddle (locking defensive personnel groupings). I think McCaffrey has similar additional value that will have them drafted higher than looking strictly at their value to a traditional offensive position.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Super K » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:12 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Engram's inability to play inline at the NFL level is what will keep him out of the 1st round. You're not taking a slot receiver or h-back that high.


Yep..Good take.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:08 pm

threadkiller wrote:I would be pretty stoked to come out of our first 2 picks with Cook/Engram. I'm not sure either of those is very likely. I think that could make a good personnel group. Evans/Jackson, Brate, Cook at RB and Engram shifting between slot, 2nd TE, and h-back/FB type sets. Engram is the type of player that lets you be diverse, while running no huddle (locking defensive personnel groupings). I think McCaffrey has similar additional value that will have them drafted higher than looking strictly at their value to a traditional offensive position.


I don't necessarily agree here on Engram. You're not going to be all that diverse because he does absolutely nothing for your run game. He isn't going to be a lead blocker at FB. You're not putting a 230 pound TE inline period. I think a team will have to draft him with the understanding that he is a slot receiver. He's not a guy you're building your passing game around. McCaffrey will help out in multiple phases. Engram just 1.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:54 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
threadkiller wrote:I would be pretty stoked to come out of our first 2 picks with Cook/Engram. I'm not sure either of those is very likely. I think that could make a good personnel group. Evans/Jackson, Brate, Cook at RB and Engram shifting between slot, 2nd TE, and h-back/FB type sets. Engram is the type of player that lets you be diverse, while running no huddle (locking defensive personnel groupings). I think McCaffrey has similar additional value that will have them drafted higher than looking strictly at their value to a traditional offensive position.


I don't necessarily agree here on Engram. You're not going to be all that diverse because he does absolutely nothing for your run game. He isn't going to be a lead blocker at FB. You're not putting a 230 pound TE inline period. I think a team will have to draft him with the understanding that he is a slot receiver. He's not a guy you're building your passing game around. McCaffrey will help out in multiple phases. Engram just 1.


The only blocking assignments I don't see him being consistently successful, are solo against 4-3 DE, and probably most 3-4 OLB. From the 3 games I watched, I think he can be a + blocker in other assignments. To be clear, I watched him perform acceptably inline several times. I thought he was better in that role than what I've seen of Njoku. I think he was a more physical blocker than Brate last season (obviously different levels). Do you think Brate is an inline TE? Or Njoku projects to do that well? I don't think Howard is going to function well as a point of attack run blocking TE either. Though I feel he is a very advanced and capable blocker overall.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:06 pm

threadkiller wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I don't necessarily agree here on Engram. You're not going to be all that diverse because he does absolutely nothing for your run game. He isn't going to be a lead blocker at FB. You're not putting a 230 pound TE inline period. I think a team will have to draft him with the understanding that he is a slot receiver. He's not a guy you're building your passing game around. McCaffrey will help out in multiple phases. Engram just 1.


The only blocking assignments I don't see him being consistently successful, are solo against 4-3 DE, and probably most 3-4 OLB. From the 3 games I watched, I think he can be a + blocker in other assignments. To be clear, I watched him perform acceptably inline several times. I thought he was better in that role than what I've seen of Njoku. I think he was a more physical blocker than Brate last season (obviously different levels). Do you think Brate is an inline TE? Or Njoku projects to do that well? I don't think Howard is going to function well as a point of attack run blocking TE either. Though I feel he is a very advanced and capable blocker overall.


I don't know what tape you've seen to even remotely suggest Engram's blocking is on par with Njoku or Howard. But that's not my point. My point is no OC in their right mind is putting a 230 TE inline. You're basically gift wrapping your playcall to the defense. There's no threat of a run there and if you do you get what you deserve.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Cheb » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
threadkiller wrote:
The only blocking assignments I don't see him being consistently successful, are solo against 4-3 DE, and probably most 3-4 OLB. From the 3 games I watched, I think he can be a + blocker in other assignments. To be clear, I watched him perform acceptably inline several times. I thought he was better in that role than what I've seen of Njoku. I think he was a more physical blocker than Brate last season (obviously different levels). Do you think Brate is an inline TE? Or Njoku projects to do that well? I don't think Howard is going to function well as a point of attack run blocking TE either. Though I feel he is a very advanced and capable blocker overall.


I don't know what tape you've seen to even remotely suggest Engram's blocking is on par with Njoku or Howard. But that's not my point. My point is no OC in their right mind is putting a 230 TE inline. You're basically gift wrapping your playcall to the defense. There's no threat of a run there and if you do you get what you deserve.


This.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:37 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
threadkiller wrote:
The only blocking assignments I don't see him being consistently successful, are solo against 4-3 DE, and probably most 3-4 OLB. From the 3 games I watched, I think he can be a + blocker in other assignments. To be clear, I watched him perform acceptably inline several times. I thought he was better in that role than what I've seen of Njoku. I think he was a more physical blocker than Brate last season (obviously different levels). Do you think Brate is an inline TE? Or Njoku projects to do that well? I don't think Howard is going to function well as a point of attack run blocking TE either. Though I feel he is a very advanced and capable blocker overall.


I don't know what tape you've seen to even remotely suggest Engram's blocking is on par with Njoku or Howard. But that's not my point. My point is no OC in their right mind is putting a 230 TE inline. You're basically gift wrapping your playcall to the defense. There's no threat of a run there and if you do you get what you deserve.


I said Engram was a better run blocker than Njoku, not as good as Howard. 2016 FSU, Georgia, A&M led me to that opinion. Have watched 4 (I think?) Njoku games. Which should I be looking at to highlight Njoku's run blocking ability?
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:49 pm

Then I'd have to wonder how many times we ran the ball last year with Brate being the only TE on the field and how many times we passed the ball with Stocker and Brate both on the field. I seem to recall Koetter talking about breaking or avoiding a tackle in order to get to the 2nd level. That petty much says they know what were doing but we need to execute it better to have success.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:51 pm

threadkiller wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I don't know what tape you've seen to even remotely suggest Engram's blocking is on par with Njoku or Howard. But that's not my point. My point is no OC in their right mind is putting a 230 TE inline. You're basically gift wrapping your playcall to the defense. There's no threat of a run there and if you do you get what you deserve.


I said Engram was a better run blocker than Njoku, not as good as Howard. 2016 FSU, Georgia, A&M led me to that opinion. Have watched 4 (I think?) Njoku games. Which should I be looking at to highlight Njoku's run blocking ability?


You're not getting it. At the NFL level no 230 pound TE is playing inline. He's basically the same size as Brandon Marshall. That relegates him to playing slot or H back.

As far as him being a better blocker than Njoku, which is irrelevant, I disagree. But at least we'll get to see him in that role at the NFL level. Engram won't be playing inline.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:53 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Then I'd have to wonder how many times we ran the ball last year with Brate being the only TE on the field and how many times we passed the ball with Stocker and Brate both on the field. I seem to recall Koetter talking about breaking or avoiding a tackle in order to get to the 2nd level. That petty much says they know what were doing but we need to execute it better to have success.


That's part of the reason we used a 6th lineman so often dating back to 2015. ASJ got hurt and then cut. Brate is useless as a blocker and Stocker is useless as a receiver. Having at least a threat hurt our offense.
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