Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:38 pm

Barnett is kind of like Noah Spence is Spence never got in trouble.

I don't buy the idea that he falls, but ya, if he's there at 19 he's likely BPA. But I don't see it happening.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:37 pm

Barnett and Spence are nothing alike.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby threadkiller » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:12 pm

That's not my opinion from watching the two as college prospects. Both are undersized 4-3 DE (Noah: 6'2" 251 33 arms, Derek 6'3" 259 32 1/8) who have the rare ability bend and torque their body while redirecting an upfield rush into the pocket. I think Noah showed better bend, but I thought he was elite "turning the corner". They both use their hands well getting under/inside their blockers leverage before/while doing so. Barnett's hands probably a bit heavier. Both struggled at the point of attack, but Noah more so. Both tested less than they showed on film, and are more short area explosion athletes than long speed (don't really project to cover/zone well as potential OLB). Derek has more power to his game and projects more easily as a 3 down RE, but is a little more stiff. Both guys showed good snap after snap motor. I wouldn't use one to describe the other, necessarily, but I don't think they are all that dissimilar.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:28 pm

To be clear, not saying they are similar stylistically, but rather they are similar caliber of prospects- had Noah never gotten in trouble.

But as TK described, they aren't that dissimilar either. But that wasn't my point.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:33 pm

threadkiller wrote:That's not my opinion from watching the two as college prospects. Both are undersized 4-3 DE (Noah: 6'2" 251 33 arms, Derek 6'3" 259 32 1/8) who have the rare ability bend and torque their body while redirecting an upfield rush into the pocket. I think Noah showed better bend, but I thought he was elite "turning the corner". They both use their hands well getting under/inside their blockers leverage before/while doing so. Barnett's hands probably a bit heavier. Both struggled at the point of attack, but Noah more so. Both tested less than they showed on film, and are more short area explosion athletes than long speed (don't really project to cover/zone well as potential OLB). Derek has more power to his game and projects more easily as a 3 down RE, but is a little more stiff. Both guys showed good snap after snap motor. I wouldn't use one to describe the other, necessarily, but I don't think they are all that dissimilar.


Watching tape of these 2, they are nothing alike. The fact that you equate one of the BIGGEST differences between them, hand usage/activity, tells me you haven't seen much of one or the other play. Barnett is basically all hands and damn good hands at that. That's why he's able to produce pretty consistently. Spence is not. It was one of my big knocks on him coming out of college last year. He shoots out of a cannon and tries to go around the edge to the QB every time. The casuals here love it and they think this is how "elite" pass rushers win. No. This is how pass rushers get relegated to being pass rush specialists aka 3rd down players like Spence was. Average hand usage like Spence gets you pushed around in the run game. I don't see such a thing happening to Barnett. He may not have a lightning quick 1st step but fans need to realize that an elite 1st step won't win you a ton of battles if that's all you have to bring to the table. Barnett is able to keep big men at bay and off of his body and keep himself in the play whereas Spence wipes himself out by trying to run the same direction every time.

These 2 are nothing alike at all. It's honestly like saying Randall Cobb & Desean Jackson are comparable because they're similar in size.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:05 am

Derek Rivers or Jordan Willis
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:39 am

mdb1958 wrote:Derek Rivers or Jordan Willis


Good one!! Both are good athletes, Rivers is much more fluid w/ better bend around the edge and a higher upside imo. Willis is probably the safer pick that can play/contribute earlier. I think Willis will play in the NFL for 10 years, but never be that double-digit sack guy. Whereas Rivers could be that guy, but if doesn't develop could be out of the NFL altogether in 3-4 years.

Just my preference, Derek Rivers.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:43 am

30 reps for Rivers at his weight is impressive. I also think both could contribute for us right away or should I say they could easily earn snaps.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby threadkiller » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:42 pm

I went into watching Rivers wanting to like him and didn't. He took a ton of snaps off in the 2 games I could stomach. Very low motor, imo. Do not want.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby Cheb » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:11 am

mdb1958 wrote:Derek Rivers or Jordan Willis


Derek Rivers tests far better than he plays. He will get his teeth kicked in by NFL linemen.

Jordan Willis is a proven and productive prospect who will contribute day one.

Willis by a country mile.
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Re: Either - Or: 2017 NFL Draft edition

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:13 pm

Jerod Evans or Dylan Cole?
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