BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Dedicated to College Football and Draft discussion.
post

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:14 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:If playing deep zones is the easiest part of playing safety in the NFL then we have no need to consider drafting a deep safety that high.


If this was Lovie's defense I'd agree. Perhaps you either missed the point or just once again formulating a dissenting opinion out of thin air.


No I simply understand the role of the safeties in Mike Smith's defense. If you did too, you would see that he and Lovie use their safeties very similarly.
User avatar
Bootz2004
 
Posts: 15493
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 360 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby threadkiller » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:18 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
threadkiller wrote:https://streamable.com/5dn5t

He has never been asked to play deep zones and when he is man up deep, problems being short without leaping ability to compensate. That was a blow out game and the only points Washington gave up to Stanford this season.


How often did the Bucs play 2-deep safeties last year? I remember alot of single high looks with with is C-3 or some variation of man2man.

I don't see how it's a 'knock' on Baker that he excels near the LOS and in m2m coverage. Playing 'deep zones' is the easiest part of playing safety in today's NFL. With Baker's athleticism I'm not concerned he or 15 others guys could cover their deep zone responsibility when asked.

Think back to last season when our Safties were exposed, Fitzgerald vs Conte, Tavon Austin v Tandy, etc.. The opposing offense got a m2m matchup on our Safety and burned them for a big play TD. Would a guy w/ Baker's skill set not be an upgrade?

Imo in today's NFL you want a Safety that can do to all in terms of m2m, blitz, TFLs in the run game, and of course the traditional role of sitting back in a deep zone (single high or 2-deep). If you drafting one on day 1 or 2 he better be more than just a deep zone safety.


Agree. My interest in drafting a safety is to find that single high guy.

It's only a knock if you are looking for a FS. If you are looking for a slot CB, Budda's film is very impressive imo. Strongly disagree with the statement that playing/covering deep zones is the easiest job for today's safeties. Or the concept I'm guessing goes with that that just because Budda has never done that, he should easily be able to pick it up.

Budda does not cover deep routes particularly well from the 4 2016 games of his I watched (Bama, Stanford, ASU, USC). If he's playing man as a safety, he's likely getting a bad size matchup for him down the field. I don't think we want Budda Baker covering NFL TE 1 v 1 down the football field. I think you will see a lot of plays similar to the Stanford clip.
threadkiller
 
Posts: 1560
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:53 am
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Doctor » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:23 pm

Baker is not a top 20 prospect, those talking about him here are reaching for a need that may not even be a need. The FO seems to really be buying a Wilcox/Tandy tandem.
Image
User avatar
Doctor
 
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:54 pm
Location: Out of the Office. Will return next Fall.
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:32 pm

Ya I think the trio of Tandy/Wilcox/Conte allows to focus more on a Day 3 developmental guy at safety. If Adams or Hooker fall to 19, then take them obviously, but otherwise target a Day 3 developmental guy like my boy David Jones out of Richmond.
Image
real bucs fan
 
Posts: 4822
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 492 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:A 5'9" safety with a 32 inch vertical?

Do Buc fans use their brains, all he could do is tackle Greg Olsen ---------------- after the catch was made.


How come your logic here didn't work in reverse when we had Evans-Vjax-ASJ-Brate? I mean we should have been the #1 passing offense ever according to your logic here.

People wanted to ding DB like Brandon Flowers, Jason Verrett, Earl Thomas, Vernon Hargreaves, etc b/c of this notion they can't play in the NFL b/c receivers/TEs are taller.

As Cheb stated, it has almost everything to do w/ body placement and technique and very little to do w/ height. How many 6'2" CBs have been over drafted the last few years just to wash out in 2-3 years later b/c they are not good football players?

Baker is 5'10 according to the combine measurements. His size may be a concern, but we if eliminate all 5'10 DBs we are missing on a large pool of talented football players.



We never really had Evans, Jackson, ASJ, Brate. You could probably count the number of times Evans and Jackson were both on the field and healthy on one hand. ASJ was always hurt too, then when he came in and looked to be doing something, he fell off and then got punted for his alcohol problems. But this WAS precisely the logic behind getting Evans, Jackson and ASJ on the team. Had Jackson and ASJ not fallen off of the cliff, I think it would have worked.
User avatar
terrytate
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:49 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Bucs N Beers » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:49 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Ya I think the trio of Tandy/Wilcox/Conte allows to focus more on a Day 3 developmental guy at safety. If Adams or Hooker fall to 19, then take them obviously, but otherwise target a Day 3 developmental guy like my boy David Jones out of Richmond.


I actually really like Lorenzo Jerome and thought about trying to work him in to my mock instead of Budda.
User avatar
Bucs N Beers
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:33 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Super K » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:55 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Ya I think the trio of Tandy/Wilcox/Conte allows to focus more on a Day 3 developmental guy at safety. If Adams or Hooker fall to 19, then take them obviously, but otherwise target a Day 3 developmental guy like my boy David Jones out of Richmond.


I actually really like Lorenzo Jerome and thought about trying to work him in to my mock instead of Budda.


If we nab a St. Francis guy for our squad, I'll be pumped as all hell!

#RedFlash
Super K
 
Posts: 4172
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:30 pm

Doctor wrote:Baker is not a top 20 prospect, those talking about him here are reaching for a need that may not even be a need. The FO seems to really be buying a Wilcox/Tandy tandem.

I simply despise the way you look at the draft.

Don't take it personally, but I read your posts in this forum and I groan. I just fundamentally disagree with you in every way.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 6801
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 410 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Doctor » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Doctor wrote:Baker is not a top 20 prospect, those talking about him here are reaching for a need that may not even be a need. The FO seems to really be buying a Wilcox/Tandy tandem.

I simply despise the way you look at the draft.

Don't take it personally, but I read your posts in this forum and I groan. I just fundamentally disagree with you in every way.

No problem. Lucky for me it seems our FO leans more my way than yours. You take who you think is BPA. Period.
I honestly groan everytime I read someone posts what is basically "Well I think we're weakest at ___ so we should draft the best ___ on the board".
Image
User avatar
Doctor
 
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:54 pm
Location: Out of the Office. Will return next Fall.
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Teitan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:39 am

Doctor wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I simply despise the way you look at the draft.

Don't take it personally, but I read your posts in this forum and I groan. I just fundamentally disagree with you in every way.

No problem. Lucky for me it seems our FO leans more my way than yours. You take who you think is BPA. Period.
I honestly groan everytime I read someone posts what is basically "Well I think we're weakest at ___ so we should draft the best ___ on the board".



What have you seen that they are "buying the Wilcox/Tandy tandem"?
User avatar
Teitan
 
Posts: 2135
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:26 am

My statement was to say there are other options out there. Just an opinion on who we should have I guess. I'd love to see our players to be able to switch out roles once they have played in enough games. Individual plays just to make the QB have to think more, maybe be even able to blitz cornerbacks more often.
mdb1958
 
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm
Has thanked: 124 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:33 am

Doctor wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I simply despise the way you look at the draft.

Don't take it personally, but I read your posts in this forum and I groan. I just fundamentally disagree with you in every way.

No problem. Lucky for me it seems our FO leans more my way than yours. You take who you think is BPA. Period.

No they don't. They traded up in the second last year to get a kicker. They target guys they want and go get them.

And finally, take BPA period. Is the most simplistic and unnuanced methodology I can imagine. I say that because it looks at each round as a microcosm of itself and the BPA in one round is irrelevant to the BPA in the next round.

It's a lazy strategy that pays no mind to the football team you have or are trying to build. Even worse, it uses hindsight to justify itself.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 6801
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 410 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:53 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Doctor wrote:No problem. Lucky for me it seems our FO leans more my way than yours. You take who you think is BPA. Period.

No they don't. They traded up in the second last year to get a kicker. They target guys they want and go get them.

And finally, take BPA period. Is the most simplistic and unnuanced methodology I can imagine. I say that because it looks at each round as a microcosm of itself and the BPA in one round is irrelevant to the BPA in the next round.

It's a lazy strategy that pays no mind to the football team you have or are trying to build. Even worse, it uses hindsight to justify itself.


The BPA methodology ALWAYS comes w/ context. The fact is every team wants the BPA every round, but they also factor there roster/depth chart into those draft rankings. For example, we are not drafting a QB early no matter how high he is on our board.

This doesn't mean the Bucs will reach on Safety, but we only have 3 on the roster so I'd bet we draft one somewhere. ALL 3 Safeties on the roster are players that have NOT been able to solidify a starting job in the NFL despite ALL 3 having 4 years minimum of experience. I know the FO and fans are optimistic about Wilcox along with the way Tandy closed out last season, but that is best case scenario thinking. We have to upgrade the talent at Safety and try to solidify that position like we are doing everywhere else.

So like MB stated, we target guys and either stay put if we think they'll fall, OR we go get them if not. Licht has done this in the draft w/ Marpet, Kwon, and even last year w/ Aguayo. Trading up in the first is expensive, but no Bucs fan should be surprised if we moved up on day 2 once again this year.
Image
User avatar
DreadNaught
 
Posts: 7288
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:18 am
Has thanked: 308 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:06 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Doctor wrote:No problem. Lucky for me it seems our FO leans more my way than yours. You take who you think is BPA. Period.

No they don't. They traded up in the second last year to get a kicker. They target guys they want and go get them.

And finally, take BPA period. Is the most simplistic and unnuanced methodology I can imagine. I say that because it looks at each round as a microcosm of itself and the BPA in one round is irrelevant to the BPA in the next round.

It's a lazy strategy that pays no mind to the football team you have or are trying to build. Even worse, it uses hindsight to justify itself.

Well this is stupid. Saying they target guys doesn't mean they don't go BPA. They can TARGET the best players. Moving up for a player you think is better than the rest is NOT the same as moving up for need. If you think the BPA won't be Available when you pick, then you can move up. Point, is you target talent, not need. And as Dread points out it comes with context. You wouldn't draft seven DE's just because a DE continually ended up at the top of your big board each round. Yes, there is context. Perhaps you think Player A is a 91 and Player B is a 90, but given that there is a lot more talent in player A's position, you opt for player B hoping to score the best possible combination of players with a later pick. Best Player(s) Available works there as well.

The main take away from the BPA mentality is to NOT merely target your "needs". You don't go "well, we need a safety, who is the best safety left? Oh, some guy rated about 70 on our board. Guess we'll take him over all these other talented players rated in the 90s because it's the position we need most".
Image
User avatar
Doctor
 
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:54 pm
Location: Out of the Office. Will return next Fall.
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Selmon Rules » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:19 pm

Short version: teams target best player for their team....
Image
User avatar
Selmon Rules
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:27 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Doctor wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:No they don't. They traded up in the second last year to get a kicker. They target guys they want and go get them.

And finally, take BPA period. Is the most simplistic and unnuanced methodology I can imagine. I say that because it looks at each round as a microcosm of itself and the BPA in one round is irrelevant to the BPA in the next round.

It's a lazy strategy that pays no mind to the football team you have or are trying to build. Even worse, it uses hindsight to justify itself.

Well this is stupid. Saying they target guys doesn't mean they don't go BPA. They can TARGET the best players. Moving up for a player you think is better than the rest is NOT the same as moving up for need. If you think the BPA won't be Available when you pick, then you can move up. Point, is you target talent, not need. And as Dread points out it comes with context. You wouldn't draft seven DE's just because a DE continually ended up at the top of your big board each round. Yes, there is context. Perhaps you think Player A is a 91 and Player B is a 90, but given that there is a lot more talent in player A's position, you opt for player B hoping to score the best possible combination of players with a later pick. Best Player(s) Available works there as well.

The main take away from the BPA mentality is to NOT merely target your "needs". You don't go "well, we need a safety, who is the best safety left? Oh, some guy rated about 70 on our board. Guess we'll take him over all these other talented players rated in the 90s because it's the position we need most".

"You get the best player available. Period."

You didn't even read the rest of my post and then have the nerve to call me stupid.

...... Started writing a big piece to demonstrate how warped your draft philosophy is. But I know that I'd be wasting time.

You're wrong, your philosophy is overly simplistic and unrealistic. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
Image
User avatar
Mountaineer Buc
 
Posts: 6801
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 410 times

Re: BNB Post Combine Mock Draft

Postby Alpha » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:53 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Doctor wrote:Well this is stupid. Saying they target guys doesn't mean they don't go BPA. They can TARGET the best players. Moving up for a player you think is better than the rest is NOT the same as moving up for need. If you think the BPA won't be Available when you pick, then you can move up. Point, is you target talent, not need. And as Dread points out it comes with context. You wouldn't draft seven DE's just because a DE continually ended up at the top of your big board each round. Yes, there is context. Perhaps you think Player A is a 91 and Player B is a 90, but given that there is a lot more talent in player A's position, you opt for player B hoping to score the best possible combination of players with a later pick. Best Player(s) Available works there as well.

The main take away from the BPA mentality is to NOT merely target your "needs". You don't go "well, we need a safety, who is the best safety left? Oh, some guy rated about 70 on our board. Guess we'll take him over all these other talented players rated in the 90s because it's the position we need most".

"You get the best player available. Period."

You didn't even read the rest of my post and then have the nerve to call me stupid.

...... Started writing a big piece to demonstrate how warped your draft philosophy is. But I know that I'd be wasting time.

You're wrong, your philosophy is overly simplistic and unrealistic. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.



Don't sweat that kid.

He mad because anyone that isn't named D. Cook isn't worthy of the pick.

He ALSO mad because the Bucs ain't taking D. Cook. Too much smoke with his background. But it's gonna be hilarious to watch him meltdown when they take McCaffrey with Cook still on the board. Oh the humanity!

None of us have a clue. Under Licht, the Bucs have been really good about not tipping their hand. Most of us are just giving our WAG.

And don't let the "doctor" fool ya. An anonymous source told me that he was 3rd string on the chess team...and now he's a draft "guru".

:roll:
Alpha
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:51 am
Location: St. Pete
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 65 times

Previous

post

Return to College Football/Draft Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests