40 days before Philly

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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:38 am

I dont like how Jordan Willis is now getting 1st round consideration to the NFC South, and of course it aint us.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:23 am

From my point of view we all know our safety play was lacking and now that the safety class is so strong this year we fear making that big pick in case it doesnt work out. I think our offense could get us to the playoffs as we stand right now if the defense is right to help us get there. How right, will tell us how far we go.

What if that risk pays off, I mean pays off really good. Suddenly were getting coverage sacks and or key plays that end drives. Keith Tandy "I got my moment now" plays right out of the gate. Who wouldnt want a stingier scoring defense. Who wouldnt want a defense that gets a lead and holds it and by doing so offers more ways for the offense to beat its opponent.

Howz about a defense that lowers the times Winston goes all Sheldrick on us. "Weapons for Winston"? Yeah sounds good but I think he has them right now, he just needs to make better use of them for this year anyways. Because I want a defense that wins championships.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:13 am

mdb1958 wrote:From my point of view we all know our safety play was lacking and now that the safety class is so strong this year we fear making that big pick in case it doesnt work out. I think our offense could get us to the playoffs as we stand right now if the defense is right to help us get there. How right, will tell us how far we go.

What if that risk pays off, I mean pays off really good. Suddenly were getting coverage sacks and or key plays that end drives. Keith Tandy "I got my moment now" plays right out of the gate. Who wouldnt want a stingier scoring defense. Who wouldnt want a defense that gets a lead and holds it and by doing so offers more ways for the offense to beat its opponent.

Howz about a defense that lowers the times Winston goes all Sheldrick on us. "Weapons for Winston"? Yeah sounds good but I think he has them right now, he just needs to make better use of them for this year anyways. Because I want a defense that wins championships.


Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch. I think we need to add to that defense (which we did a bit in FA), but we really have terrible depth at receiver, we could absolutely use a dynamic upgrade at TE, RB is up in the air, and our offense line struggled at times.

People are looking for offense more because there were times where it was apparent we simply didn't have enough talent outside of Evans and because where we are picking it looks like some premium offensive talent may be there.

We are a decent, not great team. We need to add talent everywhere. We need to take the best possible talent at 19. If one of the premier safeties falls to 19, we should absolutely take them, but as of right now it doesn't look like Adams or Hooker will be there at 19, which means better talent would be there for us. Licht put us in position to take BPA outside of QB, we need to do that. The Bucs BPA and big board will look a lot different than ours or "experts", but it would be dumb to reach for any position.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 am

Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch --- Until we really had to have it. And that should tell you how far we would have went in the playoffs.

but we really have terrible depth at receiver --- Many times my eyes told me, you cant catch if you cant touch it.

People are looking for offense more because --- Thats how their mind works. Fantasy football and all.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:17 am

mdb1958 wrote:Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch --- Until we really had to have it. And that should tell you how far we would have went in the playoffs.

but we really have terrible depth at receiver --- Many times my eyes told me, you cant catch if you cant touch it.

People are looking for offense more because --- Thats how their mind works. Fantasy football and all.


A consistent run game would be the biggest improvement we could make to our defense.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Cheb » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:20 am

mdb1958 wrote:Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch --- Until we really had to have it. And that should tell you how far we would have went in the playoffs.

but we really have terrible depth at receiver --- Many times my eyes told me, you cant catch if you cant touch it.

People are looking for offense more because --- Thats how their mind works. Fantasy football and all.


We had one receiver who would start on another NFL team, the new guy is one-dimensional and aging. Our best tight end is a liability is the running game and for all his heart, isn't athletic enough to create open looks for himself. Our running backs are a grab bag of inconsistency, recent injuries, unspecified drug issues, and street free agents with unproven success over time. The offensive line as a group couldn't consistently open holes for our runners, especially inside. They also allowed a ton of pressure as pass blockers, forcing our franchise quarterback to run for his life often.

We need offensive help. Period. One injury to Evans and we are fucked. One injury to Winston and we are fucked. One injury to Brate and we are fucked. One injury to Marpet or Smith or Dotson and we are fucked. Fucked as in, goodbye playoff potential.

Injuries would suck on defense, but we could manage. We could not on offense.

The offense needs an influx of potential and talent.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:23 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch --- Until we really had to have it. And that should tell you how far we would have went in the playoffs.

but we really have terrible depth at receiver --- Many times my eyes told me, you cant catch if you cant touch it.

People are looking for offense more because --- Thats how their mind works. Fantasy football and all.


We had one receiver who would start on another NFL team, the new guy is one-dimensional and aging. Our best tight end is a liability is the running game and for all his heart, isn't athletic enough to create open looks for himself. Our running backs are a grab bag of inconsistency, recent injuries, unspecified drug issues, and street free agents with unproven success over time. The offensive line as a group couldn't consistently open holes for our runners, especially inside. They also allowed a ton of pressure as pass blockers, forcing our franchise quarterback to run for his life often.

We need offensive help. Period. One injury to Evans and we are fucked. One injury to Winston and we are fucked. One injury to Brate and we are fucked. One injury to Marpet or Smith or Dotson and we are fucked. Fucked as in, goodbye playoff potential.

Injuries would suck on defense, but we could manage. We could not on offense.

The offense needs an influx of potential and talent.


Well said.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:42 am

Our lack of running game throughout the season and once again injuries at a very thin WR group was the reason our offense sputtered last season. We are still an injury to Evans or Djax from being in the same spot at WR we've been the past 2 seasons. We simply don't have any quality depth at WR that can play outside which is why I believe we will address the WR position in the draft.

The play of our defense in the middle-2nd half of the last year was the reason for our success. I totally disagree w/ mdb that the defense let let us down the last few games when 'we really had to have it'. The defense kept us in position to win the game vs the Cowboys and Saints and it was the offense that could not make plays in the 4th quarters of those games. Go back and watch the Saints/Cowboys games again and you'll see our defense got stops in the 4th quarter.

The starting 22 is pretty solid right now considering it's mid-April. The best depth we have is along the O-line and D-line, which is also a positive. Our needs are depth at the skills positions (WR, RB, TE) on offense, SLB, and the secondary. Which opens up the talent pool in the draft class.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:53 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Defense was our strength last year during our best stretch --- Until we really had to have it. And that should tell you how far we would have went in the playoffs.

but we really have terrible depth at receiver --- Many times my eyes told me, you cant catch if you cant touch it.

People are looking for offense more because --- Thats how their mind works. Fantasy football and all.


We had one receiver who would start on another NFL team, the new guy is one-dimensional and aging. Our best tight end is a liability is the running game and for all his heart, isn't athletic enough to create open looks for himself. Our running backs are a grab bag of inconsistency, recent injuries, unspecified drug issues, and street free agents with unproven success over time. The offensive line as a group couldn't consistently open holes for our runners, especially inside. They also allowed a ton of pressure as pass blockers, forcing our franchise quarterback to run for his life often.

We need offensive help. Period. One injury to Evans and we are fucked. One injury to Winston and we are fucked. One injury to Brate and we are fucked. One injury to Marpet or Smith or Dotson and we are fucked. Fucked as in, goodbye playoff potential.

Injuries would suck on defense, but we could manage. We could not on offense.

The offense needs an influx of potential and talent.


The offense that needed one win? Sorry Cheb, but your lifetime coaching has to be in the negative.
Most everything you just talked about was/will/could be caused by a defense.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:06 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
We had one receiver who would start on another NFL team, the new guy is one-dimensional and aging. Our best tight end is a liability is the running game and for all his heart, isn't athletic enough to create open looks for himself. Our running backs are a grab bag of inconsistency, recent injuries, unspecified drug issues, and street free agents with unproven success over time. The offensive line as a group couldn't consistently open holes for our runners, especially inside. They also allowed a ton of pressure as pass blockers, forcing our franchise quarterback to run for his life often.

We need offensive help. Period. One injury to Evans and we are fucked. One injury to Winston and we are fucked. One injury to Brate and we are fucked. One injury to Marpet or Smith or Dotson and we are fucked. Fucked as in, goodbye playoff potential.

Injuries would suck on defense, but we could manage. We could not on offense.

The offense needs an influx of potential and talent.


The offense that needed one win? Sorry Cheb, but your lifetime coaching has to be in the negative.
Most everything you just talked about was/will/could be caused by a defense.


I feel like you have either forgot or didn't watch the Cowboys or Saints games. Our defense didn't lose those games. It's unrealistic and naive to believe our defense is going to hold every opponent under 17 points in this era of NFL football, especially offenses like the Cowboys and Saints had last season.

Our defense made stops in BOTH of those games when they needed in the 2nd half and gave our offense the ball multiple times with a chance to go down and win the game in the 4th quarter.

We failed in those games late in the season because our offense consited of Winston to Evans. Our run game was dogshit and the rest of the receiving targets were marginal players that couldn't get open. Which was the same position we found ourselves in during the end of 2015.

Cheb and other are absolutely correct in that we need to improve depth of the receiving targets on offense. If you paid any attention to either the past 2 Decembers I don't know how you could not agree.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:46 am

Our last four loses of the season was all defense and Winston. 32.5 points a game not 17.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:00 am

You see I'm honest because as many times poor offensive talent came in to play, poor QB play happened too.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Doctor » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:19 am

mdb1958 wrote:Our last four loses of the season was all defense and Winston. 32.5 points a game not 17.

So you mean it was on the team? Great break down.

People were all pitchfork on Mike Smith early in the season, but the defense came together very very well. They were one of the top units in the league the second half of the year. The offense never got it together. The run game is the biggest weakness in the whole team. The OL is still growing. We have one dependable skill position player. If you think people want to "go offense" because that's just how their mind works, then you haven't been paying attention.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 am

Doctor wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Our last four loses of the season was all defense and Winston. 32.5 points a game not 17.
If you think people want to "go offense" because that's just how their mind works, then you haven't been paying attention.


mdb has been banging the drum to draft Engram pretty much every damn day.
Last edited by Brazen331 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:45 am

mdb1958 wrote:You see I'm honest because as many times poor offensive talent came in to play, poor QB play happened too.

Being honest with your opinion doesn't make you correct or even intelligent. The world is full of honest fools.

mdb1958 wrote:Our last four loses of the season was all defense and Winston. 32.5 points a game not 17.

We won 6 of our last 8 games last year. So I have no idea why you're mentioning "our last 4 losses"

The 2 losses were the Cowboys and Saints (who were BOTH TOP 5 in BOTH Points AND Yards offensively). Our defense made stops in the 4th quarter in both games and gave ball to the offense with chances to get the game-tying/go ahead score MULTIPLE times in the 4th quarter.

So for you to blame the defense for those losses just shows you are either unrealistic in your expectation, or don't know what your watching (assuming you watched at all).

I suppose Jamies can be blamed somewhat for coming up short. He's the franchise QB and he's got to get it done. I won't argue that he could have been better in both of those games. However, any blame Jameis takes DOES NOT absolve the lack of talent around him in those games. Which is the exact point here. When your #2 WR is Russell Shepard, the 2nd best receiving option is Cam Brate, and we're relying on players named Freddy Martino to step up and contribute in meaningful December football games it a HUGE sign it's time to improve/address the recieving targets for our QB. Jamies can and will continue to get better, but we should also help him out and not have camp meat out here playing meaningful snaps during a playoff chase.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:39 pm

Some see 6 of our last eight and some see 6 of our last ten.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:58 pm

" The world is full of honest fools."


I see it the other way around.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Naismith » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:00 pm

Honest fools are full of the world? That doesn't make sense.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Doctor » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:13 pm

Naismith wrote:Honest fools are full of the world? That doesn't make sense.

:lol:
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby bearlandbucfan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:30 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:You see I'm honest because as many times poor offensive talent came in to play, poor QB play happened too.

Being honest with your opinion doesn't make you correct or even intelligent. The world is full of honest fools.

mdb1958 wrote:Our last four loses of the season was all defense and Winston. 32.5 points a game not 17.

We won 6 of our last 8 games last year. So I have no idea why you're mentioning "our last 4 losses"

The 2 losses were the Cowboys and Saints (who were BOTH TOP 5 in BOTH Points AND Yards offensively). Our defense made stops in the 4th quarter in both games and gave ball to the offense with chances to get the game-tying/go ahead score MULTIPLE times in the 4th quarter.

So for you to blame the defense for those losses just shows you are either unrealistic in your expectation, or don't know what your watching (assuming you watched at all).

I suppose Jamies can be blamed somewhat for coming up short. He's the franchise QB and he's got to get it done. I won't argue that he could have been better in both of those games. However, any blame Jameis takes DOES NOT absolve the lack of talent around him in those games. Which is the exact point here. When your #2 WR is Russell Shepard, the 2nd best receiving option is Cam Brate, and we're relying on players named Freddy Martino to step up and contribute in meaningful December football games it a HUGE sign it's time to improve/address the recieving targets for our QB. Jamies can and will continue to get better, but we should also help him out and not have camp meat out here playing meaningful snaps during a playoff chase.


Absolutely 100% agree. We have literally 1 offensive talented player. DJ is a home run threat. If we can't get any sort of run game going or a 3rd option, getting DJ will be pretty pointless. Yes we need to pressure the QB WAAAAAAY better as well as cover better, but our D was NOT responsible for Saints or Cowboys losses. I am a HUGE Defense fan. However, you have to have 2-4 Skill players on Offense nowadays to just keep up.

Like Cheb stated... we are 1 injury away on Offense to be a 5-11 team again
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Alpha » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:58 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:We need offensive help. Period. One injury to Evans and we are fucked. One injury to Winston and we are fucked. One injury to Brate and we are fucked. One injury to Marpet or Smith or Dotson and we are fucked. Fucked as in, goodbye playoff potential.

Injuries would suck on defense, but we could manage. We could not on offense.

The offense needs an influx of potential and talent.


You are understating how talent deficient this team is...on BOTH sides of the ball.

Davonte Bond is a STARTING LB. Grimes. Safeties who are...mediocre. And I'm being generous.

We are 1 injury away...on MANY positions...including defense...where we're utterly fucked.

Our draft failures over the last 5-7 years have put us in this position.

Hell...there is local talk that we might be interested in an OT because Smith just isn't working out.

I think last year's record has blinded many fans as to how easily things could go south...in a hurry. The ONLY saving grace we have is that we have a franchise QB. Take a look a Jacksonville. So much talent...especially on defense...and their QB play is killing them.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:57 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Doctor wrote:If you think people want to "go offense" because that's just how their mind works, then you haven't been paying attention.


mdb has been banging the drum to draft Engram pretty much every damn day.


Brazen - classification - dishonest.

I have only talked about 2 offensive players for our first pick - Corey Davis, who I went quiet on because I didnt think he'd be there and Engram who I gave consideration if a trade down was made. Now Corey Davis is being labeled as a faller, I doubt it. But I could back it.

Lately I have been thinking in terms of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Bing, Bang, and Boom. I already have stated, I want a championship defense and this draft offers prospects to help us gt that. If we dont go that route, ohh well - I will think we just pissed that chance away.

One guy I really want us to factor in with our first 3 picks is Willis, now how to make that happen and who the other two are I'm still not to sure about.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:29 am

bearlandbucfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Being honest with your opinion doesn't make you correct or even intelligent. The world is full of honest fools.


We won 6 of our last 8 games last year. So I have no idea why you're mentioning "our last 4 losses"

The 2 losses were the Cowboys and Saints (who were BOTH TOP 5 in BOTH Points AND Yards offensively). Our defense made stops in the 4th quarter in both games and gave ball to the offense with chances to get the game-tying/go ahead score MULTIPLE times in the 4th quarter.

So for you to blame the defense for those losses just shows you are either unrealistic in your expectation, or don't know what your watching (assuming you watched at all).

I suppose Jamies can be blamed somewhat for coming up short. He's the franchise QB and he's got to get it done. I won't argue that he could have been better in both of those games. However, any blame Jameis takes DOES NOT absolve the lack of talent around him in those games. Which is the exact point here. When your #2 WR is Russell Shepard, the 2nd best receiving option is Cam Brate, and we're relying on players named Freddy Martino to step up and contribute in meaningful December football games it a HUGE sign it's time to improve/address the recieving targets for our QB. Jamies can and will continue to get better, but we should also help him out and not have camp meat out here playing meaningful snaps during a playoff chase.


Absolutely 100% agree. We have literally 1 offensive talented player. DJ is a home run threat. If we can't get any sort of run game going or a 3rd option, getting DJ will be pretty pointless. Yes we need to pressure the QB WAAAAAAY better as well as cover better, but our D was NOT responsible for Saints or Cowboys losses. I am a HUGE Defense fan. However, you have to have 2-4 Skill players on Offense nowadays to just keep up.

Like Cheb stated... we are 1 injury away on Offense to be a 5-11 team again


Injuries can do that to any team but I understand, Cheb didnt tell you that.

32.5 ppg a game in our last four losses is not good. Its pitiful. (and yes Sheldrick played his role)

Your at 100% that we only have one talented offensive player? I love how yall dont understand how throwing the ball to camp meat with a higher completion rate, rather than forcing it to your only talent on offense with more failed plays is more successful. I have no reason to believe these camp meat guys cant improve with a training camp under their belt. If as you say (and I want it too) Jameis improves. Because if he dont none of it will matter.


In the end, its all about direction and how you want to improve this team as a whole.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:12 am

Little notes on our lack of offensive talent.

In 2 years Martin could be our all time rusher

Brate is already our 4th highest TD grabber for a TE - in a couple of years he could be 2nd behind the great Jimmy Giles.

Sims has the highest YPC for a running back in our history

For any receiver over 500 yards last year, Humphries was 2nd only to Taylor Gabriel in yards after the catch.

Evans will prolly be our all time receiver in 2 years.

Two players with a higher YAC than Humphries but only a little over a hundred yards were Arellious Benn

and

Josh Huff! Yes folks thats league wide.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Bucs N Beers » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:30 am

Last 4 losses:
Oct 30th - Oakland Raiders 30-24 OT #6 offense
Nov 4th - Atlanta Falcons 43-28 #2 offense
Dec 18 - Dallas Cowboys - 26-20 # 5 offense
Dec 24 - NO Saints - 31-24 - #1 offense

The defense was outplayed, but they were also playing top offenses. There was a 5 game stretch in between those first 2 losses and last 2 losses in which the D gave up 12.8 ppg (including at Arrowhead, against Seattle, west coast to San Diego, and that same #1 offense NO Saints).

Is it mind blowing that the team won in games that the D played well, and lost when the D played poorly? Not at all. But they were playing elite talent, twice on a short week, and 3/4 times lost by a touchdown or less while the O still had chances to win.

We need offensive talent. We need defensive talent. Both are on the cusp of being very good or a couple injuries from being in a lot of trouble.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:43 am

And all those teams failed their goal, which takes us alllllllllllllll the way back to my original post. If the way the draft falls and we split up the offensive and defensive picks - thats fine - as long as our defense gets a hell of a lot better. My opinion


Go RB, WR, TE, with any first 3 and you lowered how much defensive improvement that would have been made.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:52 am

And I'm willing to admit there are some offensive players I'd love to have this year.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:05 am

mdb1958 wrote:And I'm willing to admit there are some offensive players I'd love to have this year.


We know. Engram is the new Janis.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:29 am

I agree we could use talent on defense also. I was just making the point that our defense was the main reason we were able to win 6/8 to close the season so I disagree with blaming them more than the offense for our struggles.

But it's a team game and we need to improve the talent everywhere we can. Certainly there are some areas at the offensive skill positions that could use some talent and depth.

This draft class sets up much better on the defensive side of the ball, especially in the secondary where the CB and S depth is really good. Come the draft I think we'll see picks for both sides in the first 4-5 rounds pretty split.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:35 am

More specifically than the offense, we need to address our run game. It is clearly the worst aspect of this football team. We could use more depth pretty much everywhere, but if we want to make noise next year, getting a run game is priority 1.
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