40 days before Philly

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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Bucs N Beers » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:34 am

real bucs fan wrote:More specifically than the offense, we need to address our run game. It is clearly the worst aspect of this football team. We could use more depth pretty much everywhere, but if we want to make noise next year, getting a run game is priority 1.


Agreed. If Sweezy is healthy and Marpet takes the Center position, on paper the OL is more talented without adding a single player. The tackles are mediocre, but I don't see them drafting a player, especially with such a weak class. A TE that can block and a RB should really help, I think both positions will be targets in the draft.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:47 am

real bucs fan wrote:More specifically than the offense, we need to address our run game. It is clearly the worst aspect of this football team. We could use more depth pretty much everywhere, but if we want to make noise next year, getting a run game is priority 1.


Yeah, you and most everyone else has attached thereselves to that hogtit. If everytime our players got hurt and we threw them away we would get nowhere.
If everytime we throw away a player because he dont want to be here and then chase after another we would never get nowhere.

If your happy with the stats in 2015, then you need to be happy with the record. You would think that it would only take flickin on a light switch to pass a Brad Johnson led team. Its Winstons light switch.

1616 - 2016 9-7
2162 - 2015 6-10
1375 - 2014 2-14
1612 - 2013 4-12
1837 - 2012 7-9
1458 - 2011 4-12
2001 - 2010 10-6
1627 - 2009 3-13
1837 - 2008 9-7
1872 - 2007 9-7
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:49 am

Rushin yards/year/record ------------- for those that struggle.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:07 am

mdb1958 wrote:If your happy with the stats in 2015, then you need to be happy with the record.


Why? That makes no sense.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:09 am

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:If your happy with the stats in 2015, then you need to be happy with the record.


Why? That makes no sense.


Most things he says don't...
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Buc2 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:32 am

It makes perfect sense to me. Great rushing yardage does not equal wins. 2015 was glaring proof of that. Great rushing totals, 6 wins. Detroit also proved that great rushing doesn't necessarily equal wins during the Barry Sanders years. While a good run game is, of course, beneficial, it won't matter if your production elsewhere is lacking. Be it sub-par passing, turnovers, shitty defense or whatever. We all want a good run game, but it isn't the be-all end-all of a team sport.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Buc2 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:34 am

Pretty good article about the Browns #1 draft pick. Sad, interesting and funny all at the same time.

The Browns are on the clock.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby threadkiller » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:38 am

Bucs N Beers wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:More specifically than the offense, we need to address our run game. It is clearly the worst aspect of this football team. We could use more depth pretty much everywhere, but if we want to make noise next year, getting a run game is priority 1.


Agreed. If Sweezy is healthy and Marpet takes the Center position, on paper the OL is more talented without adding a single player. The tackles are mediocre, but I don't see them drafting a player, especially with such a weak class. A TE that can block and a RB should really help, I think both positions will be targets in the draft.



I think factoring Sweezy into any mental upgrade of our offensive line play is a massive leap of faith. I'm not sure what it is grounded in. Show me the list of offensive linemen who have taken full seasons off of football to recover from back injury and then returned to high level NFL offensive line play. Sweezy clearly had a significant back injury. He is more likely totally done in the NFL than a starting NFL guard, moving forward. Let alone an upgrade at RG from what Marpet gives us.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Doctor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:53 am

Alpha wrote:
You are understating how talent deficient this team is...on BOTH sides of the ball.

Davonte Bond is a STARTING LB. Grimes. Safeties who are...mediocre. And I'm being generous.

So?

Seahawk Fan, 2011: "Guys, Kam Chancellor is a STARTING safety."

Not saying Bond will be Kam, but you have no reason to knock on Bond at all. He was a guy the staff drafted because they really liked him. They've really liked what he's shown in TC and practice (when not hurt). If it makes you feel better just pretend we drafted Bond in the first 3 rounds this year. People love to give so much hope and credit to rookies that have never been in the league, but for some reason second-year players are old, worthless beans. I, for one, and very excited to see what Bond can offer us at the position and have my own (pretty good) expectations for him.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Doctor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:02 am

threadkiller wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:
Agreed. If Sweezy is healthy and Marpet takes the Center position, on paper the OL is more talented without adding a single player. The tackles are mediocre, but I don't see them drafting a player, especially with such a weak class. A TE that can block and a RB should really help, I think both positions will be targets in the draft.



I think factoring Sweezy into any mental upgrade of our offensive line play is a massive leap of faith. I'm not sure what it is grounded in. Show me the list of offensive linemen who have taken full seasons off of football to recover from back injury and then returned to high level NFL offensive line play. Sweezy clearly had a significant back injury. He is more likely totally done in the NFL than a starting NFL guard, moving forward. Let alone an upgrade at RG from what Marpet gives us.

That's a very narrow request. I can list plenty who have taken a year off, or had had a back injury, but a back injury leading to a year off- heck I can't even think of one that meets those two points off the top of my head.
Sweezy redid his deal to protect the FO from his injury, which is not something you would do if you were injured and likely not to come back from it. Maybe he was overly careful last year. Maybe he played it safe. He seems to be betting on himself this year, which is a good sign. I can't tell you much about it because I don't know much about it.

The only reason I see Sweezy as an upgrade is if/when he beats out Pamphile for the job. Then there's your proof. He beat out the guy we had last year.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:21 am

mdb1958 wrote:Rushin yards/year/record ------------- for those that struggle.


It's one of the few things you've said that I do understand! I do like the precedent of giving a crib sheet to explain what you're saying in your posts, though!
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:35 am

threadkiller wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:
Agreed. If Sweezy is healthy and Marpet takes the Center position, on paper the OL is more talented without adding a single player. The tackles are mediocre, but I don't see them drafting a player, especially with such a weak class. A TE that can block and a RB should really help, I think both positions will be targets in the draft.



I think factoring Sweezy into any mental upgrade of our offensive line play is a massive leap of faith. I'm not sure what it is grounded in. Show me the list of offensive linemen who have taken full seasons off of football to recover from back injury and then returned to high level NFL offensive line play. Sweezy clearly had a significant back injury. He is more likely totally done in the NFL than a starting NFL guard, moving forward. Let alone an upgrade at RG from what Marpet gives us.


I agree with this for the most part and have stated why we should be cautiously optimistic at most w/ Sweezy's health. But all was can do is wait and see how things progress. He was cleared for contact in Feburary, and passed 'pre-TC' type of physical in March before we committed to his roster bonus.

But back injuries are not minor, especially for 300lbs men. So we'll see what happens come July-August when the pads come on and Sweezy is hitting D-linemen. Sweezy has certainly had enough time heal considering he hasn't played a snap of NFL football since Jan 2016.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:38 am

Doctor wrote:
Alpha wrote:
You are understating how talent deficient this team is...on BOTH sides of the ball.

Davonte Bond is a STARTING LB. Grimes. Safeties who are...mediocre. And I'm being generous.

So?

Seahawk Fan, 2011: "Guys, Kam Chancellor is a STARTING safety."

Not saying Bond will be Kam, but you have no reason to knock on Bond at all. He was a guy the staff drafted because they really liked him. They've really liked what he's shown in TC and practice (when not hurt). If it makes you feel better just pretend we drafted Bond in the first 3 rounds this year. People love to give so much hope and credit to rookies that have never been in the league, but for some reason second-year players are old, worthless beans. I, for one, and very excited to see what Bond can offer us at the position and have my own (pretty good) expectations for him.


Plus it's the SAM LB, which plays less snaps than the Nickel-CB these days. I still want a good player there and if that's Devonte Bond than great. But our season is going to be lost b/c of the SLB is all I'm saying.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:42 am

Naismith wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Rushin yards/year/record ------------- for those that struggle.


It's one of the few things you've said that I do understand! I do like the precedent of giving a crib sheet to explain what you're saying in your posts, though!



No need to ask questions when everything has already been learned, its kinda like the progressive highly intelligent gibber jabber that floats around in here. Everybody wants, everybody needs their safe place...
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:45 am

Buc2 wrote:It makes perfect sense to me. Great rushing yardage does not equal wins. 2015 was glaring proof of that. Great rushing totals, 6 wins. Detroit also proved that great rushing doesn't necessarily equal wins during the Barry Sanders years. While a good run game is, of course, beneficial, it won't matter if your production elsewhere is lacking. Be it sub-par passing, turnovers, shitty defense or whatever. We all want a good run game, but it isn't the be-all end-all of a team sport.



RBF! The sky is falling the sky is falling, we dont have a run game the sky is falling.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:52 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Why? That makes no sense.


Most things he says don't...




12-4 our best record ever and we rushed for less yards than last year (1557).
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Bucs N Beers » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 am

Agreed that Sweezy's health is uncertain. That's why I said *IF* he's healthy.

I'm also pretty optimistic about Caleb Benenoch though. I think even if Sweezy becomes the right guard, Benenoch could give Pamphile a run for his money at LG.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:03 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:Agreed that Sweezy's health is uncertain. That's why I said *IF* he's healthy.

I'm also pretty optimistic about Caleb Benenoch though. I think even if Sweezy becomes the right guard, Benenoch could give Pamphile a run for his money at LG.


Jarvis Harrison is going to move right in and take it from both of them.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Sammich » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:16 pm

More than anything I'm really hoping we find a trade down partner. This draft has a bunch of guys in the projected 2-3 range that I really like. Jordan Willis, Feeney, Perine, and Shaheen (plus others) are all guys that I think will be very good players. I know it takes two to tango and all that, but it would be the best case scenario IMO.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:20 pm

Defensive first downs given up

2016

26th in rushing first downs given up
20th in passing first downs given up

2015

28th in rushing first downs given up
26th in passing first downs given up


Ramp these up to top ten or better and see how much they talk about us then...
Last edited by mdb1958 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:24 pm

Scoring defense

2016 - 23.1 - 15th
2015 - 26.1 - 26th


2017 needs to be under 20 points a game!
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby threadkiller » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:53 pm

Doctor wrote:
threadkiller wrote:

I think factoring Sweezy into any mental upgrade of our offensive line play is a massive leap of faith. I'm not sure what it is grounded in. Show me the list of offensive linemen who have taken full seasons off of football to recover from back injury and then returned to high level NFL offensive line play. Sweezy clearly had a significant back injury. He is more likely totally done in the NFL than a starting NFL guard, moving forward. Let alone an upgrade at RG from what Marpet gives us.

That's a very narrow request. I can list plenty who have taken a year off, or had had a back injury, but a back injury leading to a year off- heck I can't even think of one that meets those two points off the top of my head.
Sweezy redid his deal to protect the FO from his injury, which is not something you would do if you were injured and likely not to come back from it. Maybe he was overly careful last year. Maybe he played it safe. He seems to be betting on himself this year, which is a good sign. I can't tell you much about it because I don't know much about it.

The only reason I see Sweezy as an upgrade is if/when he beats out Pamphile for the job. Then there's your proof. He beat out the guy we had last year.


How about linemen returning to high play after significant back injury of any kind? I can think of several guys who have had serious knee injuries or bad broken bone type stuff. I couldn't think of any guys who had a bad back injury and returned. It's not one of the common things that takes guys down, but when it does that seems to be it. I see several posters talking about how our line is default upgraded by moving Marpet to center (like that is a given) and Sweezy to RG. They seem to be using that as cover for the discussion of the failure of our run game in 2016. A way to lessen the priority of our online going into the draft after not addressing it in FA. Which I consider foolish, as I see JR as a long shot to be a contributor. Let alone an upgrade from Marpet at RG.

I think Pamphile is best suited for tackle (or center, I'd rather move him to center then Ali). Beating him out at guard shouldn't be our benchmark for quality, based on Kevin's play at LG in 2016.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:29 pm

If you were trading down in certain rounds would you be willing to accept compensation in the 2018 draft, in the event multiple trade downs were made and you didnt want to overstack the deck.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:08 am

"The value of multiple 7th round draft picks"

A really good reason is to be able to go after player you think highly of but werent planning on drafting them. Players that could play specific roles on the team or players you wanted the rights to them. In other words you get them before they decide to go as an UDFA to some other team.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:47 am

Before you say mdb who the heck cares. Think about this there are 35 - 7th round draft picks and some teams have none. Denver has 3, some teams could decide to trade down for the very reason I have suggested which means the other trade partner gets to move up a little to get someone they want. Thats an option.

The thing that needs to be understood is you get more players into camp that you wanted to see and they will help you build your practice squad. Teams are already preparing to grab these players and many will to choose other teams - do it my way and they lose that choice.

How?

One or two spot trade downs.

Why would you do it? You do it because you dont think your trading partner is going to pick your player, you have more than one you will be alright with, or your pick is farther down with the way things are playing out.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Super K » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:10 am

mdb1958 wrote:Before you say mdb who the heck cares. Think about this there are 35 - 7th round draft picks and some teams have none. Denver has 3, some teams could decide to trade down for the very reason I have suggested which means the other trade partner gets to move up a little to get someone they want. Thats an option.

The thing that needs to be understood is you get more players into camp that you wanted to see and they will help you build your practice squad. Teams are already preparing to grab these players and many will to choose other teams - do it my way and they lose that choice.

How?

One or two spot trade downs.

Why would you do it? You do it because you dont think your trading partner is going to pick your player, you have more than one you will be alright with, or your pick is farther down with the way things are playing out.



So trade down in rounds 1-3 and give up the chance to draft a better/elite talent sooner, allowing someone else to do so, so we can draft more marginal/developmental talent in round 7?

In this hypothetical dream world, I say give up all our picks rounds 4-7 to get more picks in rounds 1-3..
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:00 am

I think mdb has forgotten about the undrafted free agent market.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:32 am

Super K wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Before you say mdb who the heck cares. Think about this there are 35 - 7th round draft picks and some teams have none. Denver has 3, some teams could decide to trade down for the very reason I have suggested which means the other trade partner gets to move up a little to get someone they want. Thats an option.

The thing that needs to be understood is you get more players into camp that you wanted to see and they will help you build your practice squad. Teams are already preparing to grab these players and many will to choose other teams - do it my way and they lose that choice.

How?

One or two spot trade downs.

Why would you do it? You do it because you dont think your trading partner is going to pick your player, you have more than one you will be alright with, or your pick is farther down with the way things are playing out.






So trade down in rounds 1-3 and give up the chance to draft a better/elite talent sooner, allowing someone else to do so, so we can draft more marginal/developmental talent in round 7?

In this hypothetical dream world, I say give up all our picks rounds 4-7 to get more picks in rounds 1-3..





I never mentioned any specific rounds. You say you feel this way, but then your all giddy about Chris Baker and Brent Grimes.


Also since you mentioned it, if Denver offered us picks 177.238,252,253 for us swapping from 19 to 20 ------ hell yeah, I'd do that in a heart beat. If there was two players I'd be happy with and more than likely both would stil be there --- even if they pulled off a trade.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:47 am

SuperK - sooner is not always better. Come draft time everyone forgets that.
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Re: 40 days before Philly

Postby Super K » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:36 pm

mdb1958 wrote:SuperK - sooner is not always better. Come draft time everyone forgets that.


I get it..But in the situation you presented above..

I'd rather get Denver's 3rd rounder (82) for moving back to 20 than get all the picks you listed..
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