Bootz 2017 Mock Draft

[Bootz2004]

Njoku can as well. He's not helpless in that aspect. But you completely abandoned blocking when you brought Engram into the equation and listed his pass catching attributes as a reason you'd take him. So would you prefer a complete TE or a move TE?

I'll take the better player. For me it goes Howard>Engram>Njoku.

It's so fun making you contradict yourself, *****

[real bucs fan]

I'll take the better player. For me it goes Howard>Engram>Njoku.

It's so fun making you contradict yourself, *****

You really are a special kind of idiot

[VauntedTampa2]

Glennon is 5-13 as a starter. How is that "proving you can win games"?

Also here's a list of non-legit backups:

Tom Brady
Kurt Warner
Kurt Cousins
Steve Young
Dak Prescott
Tony Romo
Russell Wilson
Jeff Garcia
Brett Favre
Matt Hasselbeck
Colin Kaepernick

He must've proved something to the Bears...
Or us for wanting to pay him 8 million...

And what do you think the ratio is of the QBs above to QBs drafted late who ended up out of the league?

We have Winston, and we're not to the point yet as an organization to begin searching for the next Brady, Young, or Warner. I think we need to add young talent to other positions and hope we hit on some late round gems who can help the football team for an entire 16 game schedule, ala Gholston, and unlike the QB in your mock.

And enough with your, "we need to draft a QB because they are cheaper" bootzings. When was the last time we didn't have an abundance of cap space? Why did we try and re-sign Glennon for so much? Man, I just wasn't aware you were a better fit to run the FO than JL.

Furthermore, wouldn't it make more sense if Winston was around an NFL veteran as opposed to a draft pick, roughly the same age? I just think a vet would have more to offer in the film room and during position meetings. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Also, we aren't going to spend a second, third or fourth round pick on a QB, so I'm not exactly sure why you felt the need to add Prescott, Wilson, Favre, etc to your list.

Either way, we have kept Griffin on the roster the last few years, so there's gotta be a reason for that. We will find out soon enough if OBP entrusts Griffin to be the number two, or if they would like to possess someone a taaaaad more proven. Their attempt at signing Foles and Glennon shows they're leaning toward the latter.

[Alpha]

And now the moment you've all been waiting for

1st Round(17th)-
David Njoku, TE, Miami

He's growing on me. He's very limited as a starter but he's produced in a big way in that limited time. 1 stat intrigues me. Of his 64 career catches, 11 went for at least 30 yards. That's big play potential and this is a big play offense in Tampa. He'll be a good fit in 2 TE sets, in the slot, and even outside in the red zone. He plays more like a WR than a TE but he's coming along as a block. Let's be honest though, you don't draft a TE this high because of his blocking. He also possesses great YAC ability, something we're missing around here

2nd Round(50th)-
Jalen "Teez" Tabor, CB, Florida

Sometimes the Combine can be a blessing. He falls because he doesn't know how to run the 40. Big deal. Dude can ball. And damn well. Arguably the best of the Florida DBs to enter the draft in the past couple of years. Has tremendous ball skills, which is key in terms of taking the ball away. Here he rejoins Florida teammate, VH3 and could slide into the starting spot opposite him when Grimes departs.

3rd Round(84th)-
Juju Smith-Schuster, WR, USC

Another weapon for Winston. No he's not a RB but he damn sure looks like one and plays like one. Another guy who can turn a short pass into a longer gain. He'll fit in perfectly with Evans & Jackson, taking advantage of 1 on 1s.

4th Round(125th)-
Rayshawn Jenkins, S, Miami

He's big. He's fast. He can cover. No he's not Sean Taylor but Jenkins is the type you want covering the deep part of the field. He can develop his craft for a season or 2 maybe, play ST, and fit in hopefully as the deep safety we've been looking for

5th Round (162nd)-
Brady Kaaya, QB, Miami

I know many will be saying "Bye, Felicia" to me for this pick, but hey. We get Winston's backup. Draft em, trade em. Maybe Kaaya becomes a trade piece 1 day. Maybe not. Maybe we need him to spell Winston for a few games. Maybe not. The tools are there and with Koetter's help he can get better. But at the least we've got a young cheap backup QB for Winston for the next 4 years.

6th Round(204th)-
Treyvon Hester, DT, Toledo

The gif was too funny to leave all alone. Seriously though he provides 1 thing our DT position does not have: Youth. And a lot of upside. He's a bit unpolished but he has size and is athletic. He can move for a guy his size.

7th Round(237th)-
Greg Pyke, OG, Georgia

Depth along the Oline. He's another guy we can cross-train at C.



Thoughts?

IF the draft fell this way...and I have my doubts that Taylor and Smith last as long as you think...I would be ecstatic.

I suspect we draft a QB this year. In fact, I think it's a lock that we do.

If we're gonna do it later in the draft, we could do worse than Kaaya. For the reasons you've mentioned. 5th round? WTF not?

My only issue, AT THIS POINT, is that we have NO safeties on the roster (and 3 is nearly none). Until/unless that changes, we WILL be drafting one.

[Kress]

At what point does it become funny that I skipped every post in this thread just because I saw that Alpha posted last and wanted to see what he said.

[Bootz2004]

My only issue, AT THIS POINT, is that we have NO safeties on the roster (and 3 is nearly none). Until/unless that changes, we WILL be drafting one.

Rayshawn Jenkins is a safety.

[Mountaineer Buc]

I have Njoku ahead of Engram.

I love Engram's speed, but Njoku looks like a more complete TE.

[BucaRican]

So waste a draft pick? When 1 in your opinion we have a legit clipboard holder, and 2 we shouldn't focus on backups.

I've long asked what a "legit" backup is and no one has answered. And IMO it's better to draft and develop at the position for cheap. A 5th round pick isnt a guarantee at all. Why not draft a backup QB?

Someone with actual NFL EXPERIENCE. Someone has had a in game snap and has shown that he can perform during a actual NFL game. Some one who has shown some kind of success in A game.


Last time I checked getting a Free Agent QB cost nothing besides paying them. Your not trading. So ? Waste potential depth in the draft? Or Grab a solid backup QB without giving up anything?


It just baffles me that for a guy who was so against backup QBs or anyone that spent time defending the need for one, you decided to waste a pick in the draft on a project backup.

[Bootz2004]

I've long asked what a "legit" backup is and no one has answered. And IMO it's better to draft and develop at the position for cheap. A 5th round pick isnt a guarantee at all. Why not draft a backup QB?

Someone with actual NFL EXPERIENCE. Someone has had a in game snap and has shown that he can perform during a actual NFL game. Some one who has shown some kind of success in A game.


Last time I checked getting a Free Agent QB cost nothing besides paying them. Your not trading. So ? Waste potential depth in the draft? Or Grab a solid backup QB without giving up anything?


It just baffles me that for a guy who was so against backup QBs or anyone that spent time defending the need for one, you decided to waste a pick in the draft on a project backup.

So you think teams should only draft QBs they intend to start??

[Naismith]

I love the Kaaya pick in the fifth round. Sit behind Jameis, have a few good preseason performances and parlay that into an eventual trade. Best of both worlds, you get a talented backup and future value.

Once you get that late in the draft, position likely doesn't matter that much. Most likely the highest player on your draft board will be significantly higher than anyone else and you just take that player, even if it's not a position of need.

[Bootz2004]

I love the Kaaya pick in the fifth round. Sit behind Jameis, have a few good preseason performances and parlay that into an eventual trade. Best of both worlds, you get a talented backup and future value.

Once you get that late in the draft, position likely doesn't matter that much. Most likely the highest player on your draft board will be significantly higher than anyone else and you just take that player, even if it's not a position of need.

Everyone gets this point except Rican.

[BucaRican]

Someone with actual NFL EXPERIENCE. Someone has had a in game snap and has shown that he can perform during a actual NFL game. Some one who has shown some kind of success in A game.


Last time I checked getting a Free Agent QB cost nothing besides paying them. Your not trading. So ? Waste potential depth in the draft? Or Grab a solid backup QB without giving up anything?


It just baffles me that for a guy who was so against backup QBs or anyone that spent time defending the need for one, you decided to waste a pick in the draft on a project backup.

So you think teams should only draft QBs they intend to start??

Yes and No. Teams are always looking for a diamond in the ruff at QB. But my whole point is you criticized people for even thinking we needed a Back up QB, because in your assumption

Ryan Griffin has 2 years in the system. We're good.

. So it has nothing to do with me thinking we can use a QB and grabbing one, and more of you criticizing the need to grab a backup QB at all in another post. So by drafting one you are admitting you are not comfortable with the situation at backup qb. In which essentially your other points of argument are mute and should not even be considered.

[Bootz2004]

So you think teams should only draft QBs they intend to start??

Yes and No. Teams are always looking for a diamond in the ruff at QB. But my whole point is you criticized people for even thinking we needed a Back up QB, because in your assumption

Ryan Griffin has 2 years in the system. We're good.

. So it has nothing to do with me thinking we can use a QB and grabbing one, and more of you criticizing the need to grab a backup QB at all in another post. So by drafting one you are admitting you are not comfortable with the situation at backup qb. In which essentially your other points of argument are mute and should not even be considered.

I'm criticizing the need for a washed up vet. We could always use young arms to develop. You disagree?

[BucaRican]

Yes and No. Teams are always looking for a diamond in the ruff at QB. But my whole point is you criticized people for even thinking we needed a Back up QB, because in your assumption . So it has nothing to do with me thinking we can use a QB and grabbing one, and more of you criticizing the need to grab a backup QB at all in another post. So by drafting one you are admitting you are not comfortable with the situation at backup qb. In which essentially your other points of argument are mute and should not even be considered.

I'm criticizing the need for a washed up vet. We could always use young arms to develop. You disagree?

No I do not disagree but to your point we already have 2 of them (Winston and Griffin). And if Ryan Griffin is as good as people tend to think as yourself, instead of drafting another one, why not bring in some kind of Veteran competition and security just in case Ryan Griffin is just really not a good fill in guy.

[Mountaineer Buc]

Why not draft a quarterback and let him develop with Griffin?

Why pay millions to a guy who is going to get the same amount of playing time as a guy making a fraction of that?

[VauntedTampa2]

So we can use the 4th, 5th or 6th to draft someone who might actually contribute. The odds of drafting a gem at any position other than quarterback is much higher than drafting a gem of a QB in the late rounds.

When we make the playoffs every year then by all means, draft QBs late and develop them for future draft picks.

Until then, use our picks on players who might have a chance at helping this football team. We need more talented players so we can make the playoffs in the first place.

[Alpha]

My only issue, AT THIS POINT, is that we have NO safeties on the roster (and 3 is nearly none). Until/unless that changes, we WILL be drafting one.

Rayshawn Jenkins is a safety.

Noted.

Would be even MORE thrilled.

[Alpha]

I have Njoku ahead of Engram.

I love Engram's speed, but Njoku looks like a more complete TE.

The fact I missed Jenkins not withstanding...I did watch quite a bit of UM football this year.

Njoku is FAR from any semblance of a "complete" prospect.

With him, you are betting on the come (sit down MB). Big time.

He has the raw tools to be an absolute monster...in 2-3 years. He is new to the position. He'll need to be coached up...a LOT.

I have no reason to doubt he won't take to coaching...and his new career seriously but if he doesn't, he becomes a tall WR, who runs a 4.7, 40.

In other words...Mike Williams (if y'all remember the former USC WR from a few years back).

[Doctor]

Meh on spending a top 20 pick on a NOT once in a generation TE... but hey. The other picks more than made up for it. Guessing we're signing AP after the draft.

[Alpha]

Meh on spending a top 20 pick on a NOT once in a generation TE...

Rob Gronkowski approves of this message.

[Doctor]

Meh on spending a top 20 pick on a NOT once in a generation TE...

Rob Gronkowski approves of this message.

Gronk picked 42.
Graham picked 95.
Reed picked 85.
Olson picked 31.
Kelce picked 63.
Walker picked 165.

I mean really, who are these game changing TEs that get taken so high? So maybe after Olson, who was a bust for the Bears and traded away for a 3rd rounder, who the heck is the next best first round TE draft in this generation? Tyler Eifert, Eric Ebron, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller, Vernon Davis, Heath Miller, Benjamin Watson, Kellen Winslow Jr? How far back do we have to go? Tony Gonzalez in 1997?

The draft is already a crapshoot, but you do your best to land what you think will work. Tight End is perhaps the WORSE for evaluating and a position that you should merely take a chance on in the later rounds and hope for the best. I'd rather not combine the already 50/50 bust odds the first round has with the shitty bust rate of TE's.

[real bucs fan]

The bottom line is that Njoku could very well be BPA at 19. Howard would be a much better fit but I expect him to be long gone. Engram I prefer by a hair, but I recognize that I'm in a slim minority.

The way I see it, there are 8 elite defenders in this draft: Garrett, Thomas, Allen, Hooker, Adams, Foster, Lattimore and to a lesser extent Barnett.

Then you got the 7 elite weapons: Fournette, Howard, Cook, Davis, Williams, Ross and to a lesser extent McCaffery.

If those 13-15 guys are off the board, who do you take? Njoku is definitely in that next tier, and could be the best guy.

I'm not a huge fan of taking a raw TE like Njoku at 19, but the guy has youth and high character on his side to put it together and be a real difference maker. Am looking forward to seeing how he does at his Pro Day, as his combine wasn't the event people said it would be. Perhaps a second go will allow him to show off a bit more.

I'd be content with the selection.

[Doctor]

While I agree to an extent on your list, there are guys who may not be on the same "elite" tier but are still damn good. At DE you have Taco, Harris, Barnett and at CB you have another long list of people from Tabor, Humphreys, and even with the injury Sidney Jones. All of whom I'd take lightyears before the second best TE prospect at number freaking 19.

But even if we just stuck with your list of 15, that only leaves four other picks that need to be positions we don't want (3-4 DL, a LB, QB, or OL) for ONE of those top 15 to fall to us. If Njoku is the pick it's because something went unimaginably wrong or we left someone better on the board.

[threadkiller]

Agree with Doc here. Njoku is an intriguing prospect, but not a well rounded TE from what I've seen. Howard is the every down TE our offense is desperate for. Who can be a positive as a blocker and a weapon in the pass game. He enhances Brate and anchores the group from day 1.

Where I disagree is having CB in play over Bolles/Ramczyk/Robinson or any of the DE mentioned (I like what I've seen of Taco). If we stay at 19, I will be disappointed if we go corner in the first.

[Alpha]

Agree with Doc here. Njoku is an intriguing prospect, but not a well rounded TE from what I've seen. Howard is the every down TE our offense is desperate for. Who can be a positive as a blocker and a weapon in the pass game. He enhances Brate and anchores the group from day 1.

Where I disagree is having CB in play over Bolles/Ramczyk/Robinson or any of the DE mentioned (I like what I've seen of Taco). If we stay at 19, I will be disappointed if we go corner in the first.

Again...Njoku is definitely NOT a "well rounded" TE prospect. At 19, you are gambling...REGARDLESS of your choice. If 19 was a "can't miss" prospect, he wouldn't be there. IF you take Njoku, you are projecting him to develop into a COMPLETE TE, while taking advantage of his pluses, in the short term. He wasn't asked to be an "in-line" blocker (often) in college. He was a "stretch the field"/"mismatch" type of TE. He is in-experienced.

And before you jump on the Howard bandwagon, you might want to be able to explain why Njoku has produced where Howard hasn't. Yeah...Howard is a better blocking TE. Clearly. That's what his offense called for. To call Howard "well rounded" would be to project that he'll actually produce (offensively) like he didn't do in college. Njoku was asked to do something different. And he did that very, very well.

Those 2 TE's are different types of players and offer different skill-sets. Not to say they can't both be successful but they are going to appeal to different teams based on the styles of offenses that are run. Case in point...Jimmy Graham. He is the same TE that played for NO (injures not withstanding), yet based on the type of offense SEA runs (and the fact that Russell Wilson isn't exactly the passer Brees is), he hasn't produced the same types of numbers.

We're at 19. There are going to be several good players available. Maybe Taco. Maybe Howard. Maybe...whoever. I trust this coaching staff to draft the player THEY feel will help this team the most.

[threadkiller]

Agree with Doc here. Njoku is an intriguing prospect, but not a well rounded TE from what I've seen. Howard is the every down TE our offense is desperate for. Who can be a positive as a blocker and a weapon in the pass game. He enhances Brate and anchores the group from day 1.

Where I disagree is having CB in play over Bolles/Ramczyk/Robinson or any of the DE mentioned (I like what I've seen of Taco). If we stay at 19, I will be disappointed if we go corner in the first.

Again...Njoku is definitely NOT a "well rounded" TE prospect. At 19, you are gambling...REGARDLESS of your choice. If 19 was a "can't miss" prospect, he wouldn't be there. IF you take Njoku, you are projecting him to develop into a COMPLETE TE, while taking advantage of his pluses, in the short term. He wasn't asked to be an "in-line" blocker (often) in college. He was a "stretch the field"/"mismatch" type of TE. He is in-experienced.

And before you jump on the Howard bandwagon, you might want to be able to explain why Njoku has produced where Howard hasn't. Yeah...Howard is a better blocking TE. Clearly. That's what his offense called for. To call Howard "well rounded" would be to project that he'll actually produce (offensively) like he didn't do in college. Njoku was asked to do something different. And he did that very, very well.

Those 2 TE's are different types of players and offer different skill-sets. Not to say they can't both be successful but they are going to appeal to different teams based on the styles of offenses that are run. Case in point...Jimmy Graham. He is the same TE that played for NO (injures not withstanding), yet based on the type of offense SEA runs (and the fact that Russell Wilson isn't exactly the passer Brees is), he hasn't produced the same types of numbers.

We're at 19. There are going to be several good players available. Maybe Taco. Maybe Howard. Maybe...whoever. I trust this coaching staff to draft the player THEY feel will help this team the most.

My feeling from watching a few of Howard's game cut ups is that he is about as close to a sure thing as you could hope for. His technique and effort level look consistent game to game. I think you can bank on those things, and he played against as good a competition as you can on that level.

The production I look for is demonstrated snap after snap with him. He checks all the boxes and I don't expect him to be Jason Witten or Antonio Gates, though I think he has the tools to develop into either (or a hybrid of the best of both).

I like Njoku. I think he could develop into a special weapon. I would probably have him in the low 30's on my big board. Don't want to run him down as a prospect, but he's on a lower tier for me from Howard.

[Alpha]

Again...Njoku is definitely NOT a "well rounded" TE prospect. At 19, you are gambling...REGARDLESS of your choice. If 19 was a "can't miss" prospect, he wouldn't be there. IF you take Njoku, you are projecting him to develop into a COMPLETE TE, while taking advantage of his pluses, in the short term. He wasn't asked to be an "in-line" blocker (often) in college. He was a "stretch the field"/"mismatch" type of TE. He is in-experienced.

And before you jump on the Howard bandwagon, you might want to be able to explain why Njoku has produced where Howard hasn't. Yeah...Howard is a better blocking TE. Clearly. That's what his offense called for. To call Howard "well rounded" would be to project that he'll actually produce (offensively) like he didn't do in college. Njoku was asked to do something different. And he did that very, very well.

Those 2 TE's are different types of players and offer different skill-sets. Not to say they can't both be successful but they are going to appeal to different teams based on the styles of offenses that are run. Case in point...Jimmy Graham. He is the same TE that played for NO (injures not withstanding), yet based on the type of offense SEA runs (and the fact that Russell Wilson isn't exactly the passer Brees is), he hasn't produced the same types of numbers.

We're at 19. There are going to be several good players available. Maybe Taco. Maybe Howard. Maybe...whoever. I trust this coaching staff to draft the player THEY feel will help this team the most.

My feeling from watching a few of Howard's game cut ups is that he is about as close to a sure thing as you could hope for. His technique and effort level look consistent game to game. I think you can bank on those things, and he played against as good a competition as you can on that level.

The production I look for is demonstrated snap after snap with him. He checks all the boxes and I don't expect him to be Jason Witten or Antonio Gates, though I think he has the tools to develop into either (or a hybrid of the best of both).

I like Njoku. I think he could develop into a special weapon. I would probably have him in the low 30's on my big board. Don't want to run him down as a prospect, but he's on a lower tier for me from Howard.

As of today, I would agree with that assessment.

In 3 years, I think Njoku could be amazing...whereas, IMO, you've seen the best of what Howard will be.

In 3 years, Howard will be a solid, all-around NFL TE.

Njoku has the tools to be SPECTACULAR.

[terrytate]

My feeling from watching a few of Howard's game cut ups is that he is about as close to a sure thing as you could hope for. His technique and effort level look consistent game to game. I think you can bank on those things, and he played against as good a competition as you can on that level.

The production I look for is demonstrated snap after snap with him. He checks all the boxes and I don't expect him to be Jason Witten or Antonio Gates, though I think he has the tools to develop into either (or a hybrid of the best of both).

I like Njoku. I think he could develop into a special weapon. I would probably have him in the low 30's on my big board. Don't want to run him down as a prospect, but he's on a lower tier for me from Howard.

As of today, I would agree with that assessment.

In 3 years, I think Njoku could be amazing...whereas, IMO, you've seen the best of what Howard will be.

In 3 years, Howard will be a solid, all-around NFL TE.

Njoku has the tools to be SPECTACULAR.

Based on what?

I like Njoku but I don't think his upside can be all that much higher than Howard. Howard is bigger, faster, more proven against tougher comp and not a slouch athlete in his own right.

Personally, I don't think there is a drop off between Njoku and Bucky Hodges.If Njoku is still on the board when we pick, I would much rather pass and gamble that Hodges is there on day 2. I'd much rather get Ramczyk/Ross/Humphrey/Williams....even Cook or Fournette in the first and Hodges in the second than Njoku in the first and whoever in the second.

[Naismith]

Don't really need to use athletic ability to justify any specific tight end as the group is ridiculously athletic.

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/te/

[Bootz2004]

As of today, I would agree with that assessment.

In 3 years, I think Njoku could be amazing...whereas, IMO, you've seen the best of what Howard will be.

In 3 years, Howard will be a solid, all-around NFL TE.

Njoku has the tools to be SPECTACULAR.

Based on what?

I like Njoku but I don't think his upside can be all that much higher than Howard. Howard is bigger, faster, more proven against tougher comp and not a slouch athlete in his own right.

Personally, I don't think there is a drop off between Njoku and Bucky Hodges.If Njoku is still on the board when we pick, I would much rather pass and gamble that Hodges is there on day 2. I'd much rather get Ramczyk/Ross/Humphrey/Williams....even Cook or Fournette in the first and Hodges in the second than Njoku in the first and whoever in the second.

I think you're selling Njoku short. 1st while Howard is 2 inches taller, his playing weight is listed at 242. Njoku is listed at 245. Both of them will likely add weight at the NFL level so really its a difference of 2 inches. Also IMO he plays faster than Howard and is more elusive with the ball in his hands. I also wouldn't call him more "proven" in any way. More years plays? Absolutely. But for a guy with his talent he's been pretty underwhelming. Meanwhile Njoku has scored more TDs in 2 seasons than Howard scored in 4, has a higher per game average in catches, yards and yards per catch per game. Those 2 are the class of the TEs in this draft. I like Hodges but he doesn't have the gifts these 2 have and is new to the position, converting from being a QB. Njoku at least was a WR who simply added weight to play TE. That said if you want to go the proven route Hodges did way more on the field than Howard & Njoku in terms of production.