Who's your guy?

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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby threadkiller » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:48 pm

Cheb wrote:I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at running backs this year. The more I watch Cook, the more I like him. Somewhat controversially, I might put Cook over McC or Fournette. Fournette needs a full head of steam to get going, and McC needs a crease. Neither guy gets much done without solid blocking in front of him, and both flub pretty badly when forced to redirect in the backfield by defensive contact and penetration. On a bad team or with bad blocking in front of him, I think either guy has a solid chance to bust.

By contrast, Cook can create on his own, which for a running back is pretty rare. Ore impressively, he can create with either power or speed. I know that clashes with Sparq scores and such nonsense, but Cook looks really good on grass with pads on while trying to beat a defense.

I don't know if I'm fully drinking the Kool aid, but I'm certainly thinking about it. The dude is legit.


Agree that Cook is the #1 back in this draft. On the field. It isn't particularly close either, imo. Agree Fournette's power is mostly core/upper body. Also don't like his balance at all. I'm starting to consider Cook at 19 because he looks truly special. I would not want us to draft Fournette at 19. He's no AP, imo. Not Zeke Elliot either (who I loved watching cutups last year and was no Dalvin Cook).
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:07 pm

Cheb wrote:I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at running backs this year. The more I watch Cook, the more I like him. Somewhat controversially, I might put Cook over McC or Fournette. Fournette needs a full head of steam to get going, and McC needs a crease. Neither guy gets much done without solid blocking in front of him, and both flub pretty badly when forced to redirect in the backfield by defensive contact and penetration. On a bad team or with bad blocking in front of him, I think either guy has a solid chance to bust.

By contrast, Cook can create on his own, which for a running back is pretty rare. Ore impressively, he can create with either power or speed. I know that clashes with Sparq scores and such nonsense, but Cook looks really good on grass with pads on while trying to beat a defense.

I don't know if I'm fully drinking the Kool aid, but I'm certainly thinking about it. The dude is legit.


Great post.

In terms of liking more than Fournette... that would be an interesting discussion. Ultimately I think it comes down to what you're looking for, as the two are very different players despite playing the same position and being tremendous talents. But judging by Mularkey's comments, I think the Bucs/Koetter would be more interested in Cook.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby theBKwhopper » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:52 am

Alpha wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:Really? Why is that?


Simple. Too many red flags.

Too much smoke.

To deny his ON FIELD talent is stupid. He has the talent and ability to be a difference maker.

I just don't trust him to stay on the field. Or in the league, for that matter. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe not. But anyone who looks at him OBJECTIVELY would have to have serious doubts about his off the field baggage.

There are too many talented players, who will help this team, for us to take an unnecessary chance on a guy with "questionable decision-making" issues like Cook.

And I don't think Licht and the Bucs are desperate enough at the position to have to take the risk. Let the Jets or Jags or some other needy organization take it (and they very well might).

Whoa, I must have missed something. Forgive me, I've been living at work. What are his "off the field issues"???
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby MJW » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:29 am

threadkiller wrote:
Cheb wrote:I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at running backs this year. The more I watch Cook, the more I like him. Somewhat controversially, I might put Cook over McC or Fournette. Fournette needs a full head of steam to get going, and McC needs a crease. Neither guy gets much done without solid blocking in front of him, and both flub pretty badly when forced to redirect in the backfield by defensive contact and penetration. On a bad team or with bad blocking in front of him, I think either guy has a solid chance to bust.

By contrast, Cook can create on his own, which for a running back is pretty rare. Ore impressively, he can create with either power or speed. I know that clashes with Sparq scores and such nonsense, but Cook looks really good on grass with pads on while trying to beat a defense.

I don't know if I'm fully drinking the Kool aid, but I'm certainly thinking about it. The dude is legit.


Agree that Cook is the #1 back in this draft. On the field. It isn't particularly close either, imo. Agree Fournette's power is mostly core/upper body. Also don't like his balance at all. I'm starting to consider Cook at 19 because he looks truly special. I would not want us to draft Fournette at 19. He's no AP, imo. Not Zeke Elliot either (who I loved watching cutups last year and was no Dalvin Cook).


Why don't you just say, "I don't actually know who Leonard Fournette is" and save yourself some keystrokes?
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am

threadkiller wrote:
Cheb wrote:I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at running backs this year. The more I watch Cook, the more I like him. Somewhat controversially, I might put Cook over McC or Fournette. Fournette needs a full head of steam to get going, and McC needs a crease. Neither guy gets much done without solid blocking in front of him, and both flub pretty badly when forced to redirect in the backfield by defensive contact and penetration. On a bad team or with bad blocking in front of him, I think either guy has a solid chance to bust.

By contrast, Cook can create on his own, which for a running back is pretty rare. Ore impressively, he can create with either power or speed. I know that clashes with Sparq scores and such nonsense, but Cook looks really good on grass with pads on while trying to beat a defense.

I don't know if I'm fully drinking the Kool aid, but I'm certainly thinking about it. The dude is legit.


Agree that Cook is the #1 back in this draft. On the field. It isn't particularly close either, imo. Agree Fournette's power is mostly core/upper body. Also don't like his balance at all. I'm starting to consider Cook at 19 because he looks truly special. I would not want us to draft Fournette at 19. He's no AP, imo. Not Zeke Elliot either (who I loved watching cutups last year and was no Dalvin Cook).


duuuuuuuuuude.... I like cook and all, but you bet your ass we're SPRINTING to that podium if fournette is still there at #19
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:26 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
threadkiller wrote:
Agree that Cook is the #1 back in this draft. On the field. It isn't particularly close either, imo. Agree Fournette's power is mostly core/upper body. Also don't like his balance at all. I'm starting to consider Cook at 19 because he looks truly special. I would not want us to draft Fournette at 19. He's no AP, imo. Not Zeke Elliot either (who I loved watching cutups last year and was no Dalvin Cook).


duuuuuuuuuude.... I like cook and all, but you bet your ass we're SPRINTING to that podium if fournette is still there at #19


I only watched 2 games of his. 2016 Bama and Wisconsin. I've watched 7-8 Cook games. Fournette looks like a significantly lesser prospect in both those games than the worst Cook game I have put on. The 7-8 Cook games I have watched are what I'd consider the best teams. That's how I, personally, evaluate prospects. I grab the 2/3 best teams he played on draftbreakdown.com and watch those games. Cook has balled out and looked like the best player on the field every time I watch him. Fournette was extremely pedestrian, imo, in the 2 complete games of his I watched. Physical back lowering his shoulder. With a head of steam, he's a ****ing hammer on the defense. Watched him get ankle tackled a dozen times in those 2 games. Getting tackled by players coming off blocks with no leverage. His balance was borderline poor from what I saw. I was pleasantly surprised that he looked capable as a receiver though. I think he can be a 3 down starting back. Would you sprint to the podium to take Demarco Murray at 19? I see that as Leonard's ceiling, from a very brief sample.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby threadkiller » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:00 pm

MJW wrote:
threadkiller wrote:
Agree that Cook is the #1 back in this draft. On the field. It isn't particularly close either, imo. Agree Fournette's power is mostly core/upper body. Also don't like his balance at all. I'm starting to consider Cook at 19 because he looks truly special. I would not want us to draft Fournette at 19. He's no AP, imo. Not Zeke Elliot either (who I loved watching cutups last year and was no Dalvin Cook).


Why don't you just say, "I don't actually know who Leonard Fournette is" and save yourself some keystrokes?



I don't, honestly. I know 2 game films of him. Like I don't know Dalvin Cook, but I know 6ish of his game films. The worst of the 6 Cook games was head and shoulders better than the best of the 2 Fournette games.

Did you want to inform anyone about Leonard with your own (or someone else's) evaluation? I'm always willing to throw on another game or 2, in case those were an abnormally bad 2 game selection.

If I was concerned with saving keystrokes, I wouldn't share my opinion.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Alpha » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:39 am

threadkiller wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
duuuuuuuuuude.... I like cook and all, but you bet your ass we're SPRINTING to that podium if fournette is still there at #19


I only watched 2 games of his. 2016 Bama and Wisconsin. I've watched 7-8 Cook games. Fournette looks like a significantly lesser prospect in both those games than the worst Cook game I have put on. The 7-8 Cook games I have watched are what I'd consider the best teams. That's how I, personally, evaluate prospects. I grab the 2/3 best teams he played on draftbreakdown.com and watch those games. Cook has balled out and looked like the best player on the field every time I watch him. Fournette was extremely pedestrian, imo, in the 2 complete games of his I watched. Physical back lowering his shoulder. With a head of steam, he's a ****ing hammer on the defense. Watched him get ankle tackled a dozen times in those 2 games. Getting tackled by players coming off blocks with no leverage. His balance was borderline poor from what I saw. I was pleasantly surprised that he looked capable as a receiver though. I think he can be a 3 down starting back. Would you sprint to the podium to take Demarco Murray at 19? I see that as Leonard's ceiling, from a very brief sample.


You really coulda saved yourself the trouble and said, "I'm an FSU homer and don't really know anything about this 4net guy."
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Noles1724 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:38 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Simple. Too many red flags.

Too much smoke.

To deny his ON FIELD talent is stupid. He has the talent and ability to be a difference maker.

I just don't trust him to stay on the field. Or in the league, for that matter. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe not. But anyone who looks at him OBJECTIVELY would have to have serious doubts about his off the field baggage.

There are too many talented players, who will help this team, for us to take an unnecessary chance on a guy with "questionable decision-making" issues like Cook.

And I don't think Licht and the Bucs are desperate enough at the position to have to take the risk. Let the Jets or Jags or some other needy organization take it (and they very well might).

Whoa, I must have missed something. Forgive me, I've been living at work. What are his "off the field issues"???


it's just his ax that he's grinding. any issues that he's had were 3 years ago.. one was a case that got dropped when a females story fell apart about her getting hit by him (her friends didn't even confirm the story), the other I think was the bb gun situation that Winston was apart of, and the last was an animal cruelty issue when he had a heavy than normal collar on a dog. again, all of them several years removed and none of them causing him to be locked up or miss time on the field (supporting the lack of severity)
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Super K » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:07 pm

Noles1724 wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:Whoa, I must have missed something. Forgive me, I've been living at work. What are his "off the field issues"???


it's just his ax that he's grinding. any issues that he's had were 3 years ago.. one was a case that got dropped when a females story fell apart about her getting hit by him (her friends didn't even confirm the story), the other I think was the bb gun situation that Winston was apart of, and the last was an animal cruelty issue when he had a heavy than normal collar on a dog. again, all of them several years removed and none of them causing him to be locked up or miss time on the field (supporting the lack of severity)


Yep..

I've got questions about Cook..And I don't think he's right for us..

But NONE of it has anything to do with character concerns..

Meanwhile there's video of Mixon going Deebo on a chick and he's viewed as good to go..

Craziness..
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:45 pm

I have yet to hear of Cook's silliness being a red flag against him. The only red flags I see are medical. How will those hamstrings hold up?
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:00 pm

There are plenty of rumors from reporters about Cook having character red flags. We don't need to know exactly what he did or be able to prove it in a court of law to believe that it could legit be an issue for teams.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Teitan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:25 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:I have yet to hear of Cook's silliness being a red flag against him. The only red flags I see are medical. How will those hamstrings hold up?



More worried about the multiple shoulder surgeries.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:29 pm

Naismith wrote:There are plenty of rumors from reporters about Cook having character red flags. We don't need to know exactly what he did or be able to prove it in a court of law to believe that it could legit be an issue for teams.


If as a franchise you're worried about a bb gun and an odd color on a dog then cut your entire roster. I'm sure there's much much worse that doesn't get reported.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:30 pm

Teitan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I have yet to hear of Cook's silliness being a red flag against him. The only red flags I see are medical. How will those hamstrings hold up?



More worried about the multiple shoulder surgeries.

I'm More worried about fumbles and running backwards
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Naismith wrote:There are plenty of rumors from reporters about Cook having character red flags. We don't need to know exactly what he did or be able to prove it in a court of law to believe that it could legit be an issue for teams.


If as a franchise you're worried about a bb gun and an odd color on a dog then cut your entire roster. I'm sure there's much much worse that doesn't get reported.


That's the exact point I'm making, that what we as fans know is not even close to what the teams know. It's easy to look at what's reported in his history and shrug it off as not a big deal but it doesn't mean that's the extent of his background issues or even close to it. When a reporter suggest that some teams consider his off-field issues to be a red flag, they almost certainly aren't referring to a "bb gun and an odd color on a dog".
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Noles1724 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:50 pm

Naismith wrote:There are plenty of rumors from reporters about Cook having character red flags. We don't need to know exactly what he did or be able to prove it in a court of law to believe that it could legit be an issue for teams.


Let me get Bootz-mode...link?
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Super K » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:57 pm

Naismith wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If as a franchise you're worried about a bb gun and an odd color on a dog then cut your entire roster. I'm sure there's much much worse that doesn't get reported.


That's the exact point I'm making, that what we as fans know is not even close to what the teams know. It's easy to look at what's reported in his history and shrug it off as not a big deal but it doesn't mean that's the extent of his background issues or even close to it. When a reporter suggest that some teams consider his off-field issues to be a red flag, they almost certainly aren't referring to a "bb gun and an odd color on a dog".


Wouldn't the same thought process apply to Dougie then too?

A large number around here are cool with keeping him around, albeit at a lower salary, because it was "only" a PED or Adderall..so we should assume that there is more, right?

And Cook is/was BELOVED at FSU..Fisher, teammates, fans..I'd argue moreso than JW..NEVER heard a bad word about the kid..

And finally, until a reporter puts his name or, more importantly, a source's name, to this stuff it's horseshit..
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Nano » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:01 pm

Noles1724 wrote:
Naismith wrote:There are plenty of rumors from reporters about Cook having character red flags. We don't need to know exactly what he did or be able to prove it in a court of law to believe that it could legit be an issue for teams.


Let me get Bootz-mode...link?


The only other thing about Cooks off the field issues(besides the ones mentioned) I found is from WalterFootball.

The combine interviews and pre-draft visits are going to be very important for Dalvin Cook. There are some minor off-the-field concerns regarding Cook; not so much with his character, but the company he keeps. Cook is said to have an entourage that has some real thugs. These friends have teams worried that it could be dangerous for Cook to continue hanging around them. Teams are concerned that Cook drinks a heavy amount and could have some challenges with his focus from having multiple kids with multiple women. They think that leaving the state of Florida would be good for Cook's long-term career and could help him to focus on becoming a professional.

However, some team sources are worried the entourage will follow Cook wherever he goes, as that was the case at Florida State. Thus, it would help Cook to go to a team with established leadership in the locker room that can help steer him in the right direction.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:07 pm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694 ... k-prescott

B/R: Pretend you're free to give a Twitter hot take on this class. What's your line?

Scout: Dalvin Cook is drafted after Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffrey. Listen, this is the time of year when we're digging hard into the character of these guys. His past scares the s--t out of us. That, plus all the injuries and all the fumbles is just a lot to sign off on.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2699 ... -prospects

Question: Will on- and off-field issues push Dalvin Cook out of the first round?

Cook has never been found guilty of a crime, but there are multiple issues in his past that NFL teams are investigating. Cook was acquitted of a charge of misdemeanor battery in 2015, cited for a violation of animal care in 2014, charged with robbery in 2009 before the charge was dropped and in 2010 was charged with firing a weapon and possession of a weapon on school property, though at least one of those charges was dropped or abandoned. Another incident involved Cook being charged with criminal mischief for allegedly causing property damage with a BB gun.

On the field, Cook has been a dynamic three-down back, but he's dealt with shoulder and hamstring issues while showing a penchant for fumbling. Shoulders issues coupled with fumbles is a good way to see your stock drop.

A Scout Says: "The pattern of bad decisions are alarming, really. With my job on the line, I trust [Joe] Mixon a lot more than Dalvin Cook."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-draft- ... 02838.html

Downside: Character red-flagged by multiple teams with checkered past, and team interviews have been a mixed bag when Cook has been asked about them.

https://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2017rumors4.php

The combine interviews and pre-draft visits are going to be very important for Dalvin Cook. There are some minor off-the-field concerns regarding Cook; not so much with his character, but the company he keeps. Cook is said to have an entourage that has some real thugs. These friends have teams worried that it could be dangerous for Cook to continue hanging around them. Teams are concerned that Cook drinks a heavy amount and could have some challenges with his focus from having multiple kids with multiple women. They think that leaving the state of Florida would be good for Cook's long-term career and could help him to focus on becoming a professional.

However, some team sources are worried the entourage will follow Cook wherever he goes, as that was the case at Florida State. Thus, it would help Cook to go to a team with established leadership in the locker room that can help steer him in the right direction.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:14 pm

Super K wrote:And finally, until a reporter puts his name or, more importantly, a source's name, to this stuff it's horseshit..


Not true. It's only horseshit if it's horseshit. We have no way of knowing. Luckily, the Bucs will have a multitude more info than we have and will be informed in their decision-making.

It's like the story about Justin Blackmon. If someone reported that sources were saying that he was an off-field red flag before the 2012 draft, I'm sure it would have been dismissed by some because his only off field issue was a DUI two years earlier, but the Bucs actually had someone go to a bar and see how often Blackmon was there.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:15 pm

I dug into the alleged battery thing, and looks like a non-issue to me.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:29 pm

Some real thugs? Like nerds from Walter's Football know what "real thugs" are. If they're speaking about known gang affiliations say so and prove it. It's not hard. Otherwise they're simply stereotyping Cook's friends/associates because of their race. Plain and simple. And he doesn't use condoms and his pull out game is weak. Another non issue to an NFL team.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Corsair » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:45 pm

Bootz2004 wrote: And he doesn't use condoms and his pull out game is weak.

Hey look guys, Bootz got a scoop!
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:58 pm

Ehh, give me Tarik Cohen in the 8th round.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Super K » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:04 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Some real thugs? Like nerds from Walter's Football know what "real thugs" are. If they're speaking about known gang affiliations say so and prove it. It's not hard. Otherwise they're simply stereotyping Cook's friends/associates because of their race. Plain and simple. And he doesn't use condoms and his pull out game is weak. Another non issue to an NFL team.


I know you probably wrote this with some anger..And rightfully so..

But it gave me a good chuckle man..
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:09 pm

It's a weird criticism because at no point did the "nerds from Walter's Football" describe anyone as "some real thugs".
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:07 pm

Naismith wrote:It's a weird criticism because at no point did the "nerds from Walter's Football" describe anyone as "some real thugs".


So that line is not from Charlie Campbell's article pertaining to Senior bowl rumors?
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Naismith » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Naismith wrote:https://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2017rumors4.php

Cook is said to have an entourage that has some real thugs.


This line is from Walter Football and pretty clearly no one from Walter Football is describing anyone as a thug. They are reporting what they heard from whatever sources they have about the people Cook hangs out with.
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Re: Who's your guy?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:25 pm

Naismith wrote:
Naismith wrote:https://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2017rumors4.php

Cook is said to have an entourage that has some real thugs.


This line is from Walter Football and pretty clearly no one from Walter Football is describing anyone as a thug. They are reporting what they heard from whatever sources they have about the people Cook hangs out with.


That's your opinion on it. I hardly believe that in conversation someone described his entourage as "some real thugs". That's distasteful as a journalist/blogger.
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