AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

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AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:03 pm

I don't mock trades or wishful thinking. I also mock what I think the Bucs should do, not what I think they will do. As we all know they tend to do their own thing on draft day. I don't even pretend to know which bonehead move they will pull this year. Here you go...

Round 1 (19) Cam Robinson OL Alabama
Out of all the places we need help the Offensive line is in need of the most help. We have zero depth, we always have a bunch of injuries. Our RT play has been pretty bad, our LT should be our LG. We have no idea who our center will be. In order to give Winston some time to throw and our RBs some running lanes we need to go OL with this first pick. We don't need to have Winston running around too much. If he is going to throw left and right lets give him a clean pocket.

Round 2 (50) Sidney Jones CB Washington
After injuring his knee/leg at his school's pro day I have a feeling he will fall to us. We have had very little luck in the 2nd round in a long time. I say take arguably the best CB in the draft and stash him away until he is healthy. I don't know what else to say other than we need help in our secondary and can wait a year if it takes that long. Hopefully we can put him on injured reserve and then activate him later this year.

Round 3 (84) Malachi Dupre WR LSU
We need more talent at the skill positions. I am happy to see we have Evans and Jackson now but we still need more weapons. Dupre is coming out too early in most of the expert's opinions which is dropping his draft stock. There has been a trend at LSU of players not performing statistically in college but coming to the pro's and doing just find. I am willing to take an educated guess in the 3rd round that we can find something special from that talent pool.

Round 4 to come soon....
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:13 pm

Yes, we need help in a position our FO feels very very strongly about. Got it. And we'll pass on likely elite talent to get a guy who would be a Day 2 pick at best in any other draft class. Sure.

At least we make up for it by drafting a real first rounder in the second.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:19 pm

Doctor wrote:Yes, we need help in a position our FO feels very very strongly about. Got it. And we'll pass on likely elite talent to get a guy who would be a Day 2 pick at best in any other draft class. Sure.

At least we make up for it by drafting a real first rounder in the second.


I disagree Cam Robinson would be a day 2 pick in any other class. But I get some are down on him.

Sidney Jones in rd 2 would be nice as RS his rookie season then take over for Grimes. I wouldn't mind doing the same w/ Jake Butt in rd 4 if he was there.

Dupree is an interesting prospect. Very talented kid w/ good size but never was utilized due to a run heavy offense and TERRIBLE QB play. He's a guy that will be a better pro than he was in college if he finds the right QB/system.

I'm surprised AO didn't mock us a DT to replace McCoy :birdiedoublered: .
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Super K » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:07 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
I'm surprised AO didn't mock us a DT to replace McCoy :birdiedoublered: .



Ha!
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Agent Orange » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:11 pm

I have a hard time believing these talented skill position guys will be there at 19 for us. Keep that in mind. I don't take a WR in the 1st now, RB is a hard option in the 1st. I would have no problem with it but only for the top 2 guys. TE? We have a very productive TE now. You want to take a TE in the 1st round? I see OL and secondary being our real option this year.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:51 am

Agent Orange wrote:I have a hard time believing these talented skill position guys will be there at 19 for us. Keep that in mind. I don't take a WR in the 1st now, RB is a hard option in the 1st. I would have no problem with it but only for the top 2 guys. TE? We have a very productive TE now. You want to take a TE in the 1st round? I see OL and secondary being our real option this year.

Pretty sexy year for skill positions. Some good defensive linemen and interior linemen to be had, but not like in years past.

Teams with good lines will have some fun with this draft, while the rest will overdraft the best linemen they can find.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 am

When you could take a CB at 19 and 50 and both of them have a solid chance to be as good or better than Hargreaves thats a plus.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:34 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Doctor wrote:Yes, we need help in a position our FO feels very very strongly about. Got it. And we'll pass on likely elite talent to get a guy who would be a Day 2 pick at best in any other draft class. Sure.

At least we make up for it by drafting a real first rounder in the second.


I disagree Cam Robinson would be a day 2 pick in any other class. But I get some are down on him.

Sidney Jones in rd 2 would be nice as RS his rookie season then take over for Grimes. I wouldn't mind doing the same w/ Jake Butt in rd 4 if he was there.

Dupree is an interesting prospect. Very talented kid w/ good size but never was utilized due to a run heavy offense and TERRIBLE QB play. He's a guy that will be a better pro than he was in college if he finds the right QB/system.

I'm surprised AO didn't mock us a DT to replace McCoy :birdiedoublered: .



If he likes to hold in college he will get caught much doing it in the NFL.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:10 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Doctor wrote:Yes, we need help in a position our FO feels very very strongly about. Got it. And we'll pass on likely elite talent to get a guy who would be a Day 2 pick at best in any other draft class. Sure.

At least we make up for it by drafting a real first rounder in the second.


I disagree Cam Robinson would be a day 2 pick in any other class. But I get some are down on him.

Sidney Jones in rd 2 would be nice as RS his rookie season then take over for Grimes. I wouldn't mind doing the same w/ Jake Butt in rd 4 if he was there.

Dupree is an interesting prospect. Very talented kid w/ good size but never was utilized due to a run heavy offense and TERRIBLE QB play. He's a guy that will be a better pro than he was in college if he finds the right QB/system.

I'm surprised AO didn't mock us a DT to replace McCoy :birdiedoublered: .

He may be a day 2 pick in this draft class.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:11 am

Doctor wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I disagree Cam Robinson would be a day 2 pick in any other class. But I get some are down on him.

Sidney Jones in rd 2 would be nice as RS his rookie season then take over for Grimes. I wouldn't mind doing the same w/ Jake Butt in rd 4 if he was there.

Dupree is an interesting prospect. Very talented kid w/ good size but never was utilized due to a run heavy offense and TERRIBLE QB play. He's a guy that will be a better pro than he was in college if he finds the right QB/system.

I'm surprised AO didn't mock us a DT to replace McCoy :birdiedoublered: .

He may be a day 2 pick in this draft class.


I don't see it. He's got the ideal size and skillset to be a franchise Tackle. His 'knocks' are coaching/effort related for the most part. He's played at the highest level of CFB for football program like Bama where he's started for 3 years. He can play right away in the NFL.

This isn't a deep class at OT either and I don't remember that last time less that 2-3 OTs went in round 1. Even if you have Cam Robinson as the 3rd best OT behind Ramsyck and Bolles, he is still likely to go in the 1st round.

Imo his floor is the low 20's where teams like the Broncos, Seahawks, and Texans all need help at Tackle. That doesn't even account for teams like the Bucs, and those in front of us like the Colts, Bills, and Panthers.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:29 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Doctor wrote:He may be a day 2 pick in this draft class.


I don't see it. He's got the ideal size and skillset to be a franchise Tackle. His 'knocks' are coaching/effort related for the most part. He's played at the highest level of CFB for football program like Bama where he's started for 3 years. He can play right away in the NFL.


So did a bunch of other Alabama OTs in recent drafts. Almost all of them busted. If you want an OT, which is an idea I can support, Ramczyk is the guy to target.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:15 pm

The thing with Cam is that even if he doesn't clean up his technique enough to stay at OT, he can shift inside and be an elite guard just on pure talent alone.

I think NFL teams are higher on him than talking heads would lead you to believe.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:19 pm

terrytate wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I don't see it. He's got the ideal size and skillset to be a franchise Tackle. His 'knocks' are coaching/effort related for the most part. He's played at the highest level of CFB for football program like Bama where he's started for 3 years. He can play right away in the NFL.


So did a bunch of other Alabama OTs in recent drafts.


Name the last Alabama OT that was drafted in the 1st round? Since you claimed there are a "bunch of other" ones, this should be an easy answer for you.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:26 pm

real bucs fan wrote:The thing with Cam is that even if he doesn't clean up his technique enough to stay at OT, he can shift inside and be an elite guard just on pure talent alone.

I think NFL teams are higher on him than talking heads would lead you to believe.


Tackles with Cam's size, length, athleticism, and college experience don't stay on the board long. His weaknesses/critiques are all very fixable an NFL coach will take a chance on b/c the upside is there and at worst he still a solid player somewhere along the O-line. At best he's your Left Tackle for the next decade. Either way, he's ready to play day 1.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
terrytate wrote:
So did a bunch of other Alabama OTs in recent drafts.


Name the last Alabama OT that was drafted in the 1st round? Since you claimed there are a "bunch of other" ones, this should be an easy answer for you.



Working from memory on my phone, I overstated that a bit by specifying OT and 1st round. I thought Greg Robinson was a Bama boy and that Cyrus Koaundiju was taken in the first rather then pick 44. Go back a bit and you will find immortals like James Carpenter, DJ Fluker and Andre Smith who flopped massively as Bama OT's taken in the first. Expand it to guard and you get guys like Chance Warmack. In fact, center Ryan Kelly of the Colts might just be the first Alabama Offensive Lineman at any position, drafted in any round, to be a good pro in over 10 years.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:03 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The thing with Cam is that even if he doesn't clean up his technique enough to stay at OT, he can shift inside and be an elite guard just on pure talent alone.

I think NFL teams are higher on him than talking heads would lead you to believe.


Tackles with Cam's size, length, athleticism, and college experience don't stay on the board long. His weaknesses/critiques are all very fixable an NFL coach will take a chance on b/c the upside is there and at worst he still a solid player somewhere along the O-line. At best he's your Left Tackle for the next decade. Either way, he's ready to play day 1.

Agreed. If he's the pick at 19, I would imagine he'd be our starting left guard Week 1, and eventually put pressure on Donovan Smith at LT.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:36 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Tackles with Cam's size, length, athleticism, and college experience don't stay on the board long. His weaknesses/critiques are all very fixable an NFL coach will take a chance on b/c the upside is there and at worst he still a solid player somewhere along the O-line. At best he's your Left Tackle for the next decade. Either way, he's ready to play day 1.

Agreed. If he's the pick at 19, I would imagine he'd be our starting left guard Week 1, and eventually put pressure on Donovan Smith at LT.



Let me ask you guys this. If both are on the board, why would you take Cam over Ramczyk?
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:52 pm

terrytate wrote:
real bucs fan wrote: Agreed. If he's the pick at 19, I would imagine he'd be our starting left guard Week 1, and eventually put pressure on Donovan Smith at LT.



Let me ask you guys this. If both are on the board, why would you take Cam over Ramczyk?


Well we don't even know the state of Rams health at the moment for one thing...
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:18 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
terrytate wrote:

Let me ask you guys this. If both are on the board, why would you take Cam over Ramczyk?


Well we don't even know the state of Rams health at the moment for one thing...



That's a valid concern. The doctors would obviously have to approve him.

I am asking this seriously though, why would you take Cam over Ram. I am big on the Howard bandwagon and from watching him play I've seen a fair bit of Cam playing. He looked like a guy who got protected by a TE a lot. He tends to get hand fulls of jersey and his feet are not especially quick or fluid by LT standards. I am not convinced he will ever be better than Smith at LT, although I could see him being a beast at RT or G. Ramczyk just seems more fluid and coordinated when sliding out against a speed rusher. He has pretty much everything that makes Cam look good with few of his flaws.

That last bit is the kicker. Cam has too many flaws for us to take him at 19 when there will be a number of prospects at other spots with far few questions about their game. With the emergence of Garrett Bolles at the combine, It is within the realm of possibility that Cam is the third OT taken and on the board for us in the second.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:32 pm

terrytate wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
Well we don't even know the state of Rams health at the moment for one thing...



That's a valid concern. The doctors would obviously have to approve him.

I am asking this seriously though, why would you take Cam over Ram. I am big on the Howard bandwagon and from watching him play I've seen a fair bit of Cam playing. He looked like a guy who got protected by a TE a lot. He tends to get hand fulls of jersey and his feet are not especially quick or fluid by LT standards. I am not convinced he will ever be better than Smith at LT, although I could see him being a beast at RT or G. Ramczyk just seems more fluid and coordinated when sliding out against a speed rusher. He has pretty much everything that makes Cam look good with few of his flaws.

That last bit is the kicker. Cam has too many flaws for us to take him at 19 when there will be a number of prospects at other spots with far few questions about their game. With the emergence of Garrett Bolles at the combine, It is within the realm of possibility that Cam is the third OT taken and on the board for us in the second.


I think you are underrating Cams talent. Watch the tape of him manhandling the top player in this draft Myles Garrett:
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj0lBw9LyA8[/youtube]

I guarantee Ram doesn't have tape as impressive as that.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Agent Orange » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:53 pm

Let me just ask. I personally don't think we will have a shot at the top 2 RBs and I don't see a reason for a 1st round WR at this point unless it is Williams. TE to me is tough in the 1st round. We have one of the top producers in the league now. I know all the talk is to get Winston more weapons but my question is what position/player really makes the most sense? I am all for BPA and a lot of picks make sense. I don't see many falling to us. I think a solid offensive lineman makes a lot of sense for us.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:07 am

real bucs fan wrote:
terrytate wrote:

That's a valid concern. The doctors would obviously have to approve him.

I am asking this seriously though, why would you take Cam over Ram. I am big on the Howard bandwagon and from watching him play I've seen a fair bit of Cam playing. He looked like a guy who got protected by a TE a lot. He tends to get hand fulls of jersey and his feet are not especially quick or fluid by LT standards. I am not convinced he will ever be better than Smith at LT, although I could see him being a beast at RT or G. Ramczyk just seems more fluid and coordinated when sliding out against a speed rusher. He has pretty much everything that makes Cam look good with few of his flaws.

That last bit is the kicker. Cam has too many flaws for us to take him at 19 when there will be a number of prospects at other spots with far few questions about their game. With the emergence of Garrett Bolles at the combine, It is within the realm of possibility that Cam is the third OT taken and on the board for us in the second.


I think you are underrating Cams talent. Watch the tape of him manhandling the top player in this draft Myles Garrett:
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj0lBw9LyA8[/youtube]

I guarantee Ram doesn't have tape as impressive as that.


I watched that tape before I posted. Every time Garrett went to the inside rush, he blew up Cam. In fact, the prevailing theory is that Garrett had instructions to stick to the outside rush to keep contain on the Bama QB, who is a runner, which is why he went inside so infrequently. I don't hold that against Robinson too much though, because Myles Garrett is a monster.

Now, I do like Cam. I'd normally be ok with drafting him, on the grounds that we can always use a replacement at RT which I value. Not this year though, not at 19. There is just too much blue chip talent to pick from to take a guy with question marks about whether he can play LT.

My 2¢, could end up being wrong.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby GameTime » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:44 am

Who is the mentally strongest guy out there? Thats the guy we need to draft. Maybe its cam. But i question his off field priorities. Rams "love" for the game? Does a guy with bolles history help or hurt him? Does lamps t-rex arms give him a burning drive that will make him the best? And is licht really fine with our OL and its all a waste of time wanting to fix it?
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:57 am

terrytate wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Name the last Alabama OT that was drafted in the 1st round? Since you claimed there are a "bunch of other" ones, this should be an easy answer for you.



Working from memory on my phone, I overstated that a bit by specifying OT and 1st round. I thought Greg Robinson was a Bama boy and that Cyrus Koaundiju was taken in the first rather then pick 44. Go back a bit and you will find immortals like James Carpenter, DJ Fluker and Andre Smith who flopped massively as Bama OT's taken in the first. Expand it to guard and you get guys like Chance Warmack. In fact, center Ryan Kelly of the Colts might just be the first Alabama Offensive Lineman at any position, drafted in any round, to be a good pro in over 10 years.


Let me first say that I also like Ram. I could even buy the argument that his floor is higher than Cams. But I think Cam has the higher upside and both will be off the board in the top 20.

As far as all those other Bama OL you mentioned, NONE of them have the athleticism Cam Robinson does which is why most if not ALL of them (other than Andre Smith) were switched to Guard in the NFL. That said, Flucker, Carpenter, and Warmack are still starting Guards in the NFL and getting paid pretty well, so I don't believe the 'Bust' label is fair at all.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:00 am

terrytate wrote:
real bucs fan wrote: Agreed. If he's the pick at 19, I would imagine he'd be our starting left guard Week 1, and eventually put pressure on Donovan Smith at LT.



Let me ask you guys this. If both are on the board, why would you take Cam over Ramczyk?


Upside/Ceiling

I'd be happy with either though since I believe both will be anchors along the O-line for whatever team they go to.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:30 am

I also think Cam has a higher floor. At worst he's an excellent guard IMO, his run blocking is that good, and his length and strength will have him hold up against the pass. His only issue on the field is inconsistent footwork at OT.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby Agent Orange » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 pm

Those of you saying the staff thinks we are all set with our current offensive line. One year after moving up in the 2nd round to draft a kicker we just signed Nick Foles. They have to win, right or wrong on the previous choices. Keep bringing in more depth.
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 pm

I don't know how anyone that wants the Bucs to win would be satisfied with Hawley or Evan Smith playing Center. I just can't....
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Re: AO's Initial 2017 Bucs Mock Draft

Postby terrytate » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:40 am

Agent Orange wrote:Those of you saying the staff thinks we are all set with our current offensive line. One year after moving up in the 2nd round to draft a kicker we just signed Nick Foles. They have to win, right or wrong on the previous choices. Keep bringing in more depth.



I don't know if anyone is convinced that we are set on offensive line. I'd love to get a premium tackle and a long term center to be Robin to Winston's Batman. I am just not convinced any of that is going to happen in this draft. Neither Cam nor Ramczyk are without several flaws and the talent pool drops precipitously after that. This draft is just so loaded in other areas, areas where we still have needs, that it's logical to think we go in those directions.
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