Doctor's First Buc Mock

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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:13 am

terrytate wrote:Not bad at all. I think I'd prefer Marlon Humphrey at 19 though, even before the injury. We have a bunch of smaller corners, Humphrey has the size, physicality AND the speed. I am assuming he'll be there as most mocks have him going right at 20-24. I'd be ok with a premier DB talent at 19.

Am I the only one that views TE as a big need though? Brate is fine and all, but he is not likely to ever be an elite talent. There is no reason to limit yourself to one good TE anyway. This draft is loaded with premium TE prospects, I really want one in the early rounds. Whether that comes in the form of Howard in the first or Hodges, Shaheen or Butt in the 2nd or 3rd, this is too good to pass up. We could potentially run a 3WR/2TE/1RB set of Evans, Djackson and Humphrey/JJSS as the WR's, Howard and Brate as the TE's and Dougie/Quizz/Foreman/SIms as the RB. That would be an abjectly terrifying and extremely versatile set of players. We could do everything from run power to attack the deep zone with Evans, Jackson and Howard.



I like them so much that I'm trying to balance out my whole draft around them. I'm seeing TE's, DE's, CB's, and Safeties, all that I wouldnt mind doubling up on. It would make my whole draft to me.

I like that Kevin King has experience at cb and s. I like Witherspoon -------------------damn its a tough list to decide on. Same with TE, I'd like Shaheen, Brown, Roberts, Engram.


Anyways, I agree with ya.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:18 am

Just reread your post about Humphrey and there is no way I'm crowning these CB's by the round in which they're drafted, not these guys.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby Rocker » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:41 am

I find it ironic that so many posters label Brate as a pedestrian talent, JAG, mediocre guy. He was tied with the most TDs at his position last year; and gave us plenty of clutch plays. I'm not putting him in the Hall or anything, but I feel he's pretty undervalued around here.

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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:57 am

Rocker wrote:I find it ironic that so many posters label Brate as a pedestrian talent, JAG, mediocre guy. He was tied with the most TDs at his position last year; and gave us plenty of clutch plays. I'm not putting him in the Hall or anything, but I feel he's pretty undervalued around here.

.02


I like Brate, but he's a low ceiling type of player imo. I love his consistency but he just complimentary piece on offense. He doesn't give you much as a run blocker and imo doesn't have the skillset to be a focal point of an NFL offense. I want Brate on the field, but I'd feel alot better if he was our 2nd TE and we had a bigger guy like OJ Howard, or even Michael Roberts (Toledo) in there with him to give us more in the run game.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby Kress » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:58 am

I completely agree about Brate, rocker, but I still see the value in adding more TE talent. I guess it's the new version of the west coast offense. Instead of nickel and diming you with dump offs to the running backs, nickel and dime you with TE passes across the middle.

Safe first down, then another safe first down, then another. Then when they inch up to stop it....... DeSean is dancing on the paint.

It's a strange variation of what Georgia Tech does (bad team choice, but bear with the theory). They run that stupid option over, and over, and over. And they get 4 yards, and 6 yards, and 3 yards, etc. They keep doing it, so you pull your guys in, and whack. Deep pass to the forgotten wr.

That's what San Francisco did back in the day. Keep dumping it off to Craig, and then ****.... Where the hell is Rice? Anybody got Rice? ****. Let's go sit on the bench and get some Gatorade.

Long story short: Get a good TE if he's there.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:18 am

Lots of intriguing talent at TE in this draft.

Howard's at the top of my round 1 wish list, but if not him we can find a guy in round 2, 3, or 4.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:29 am

real bucs fan wrote:Lots of intriguing talent at TE in this draft.

Howard's at the top of my round 1 wish list, but if not him we can find a guy in round 2, 3, or 4.


I still like Michael Roberts and think he'll go alot higher than many are projecting, maybe even day 2.

A guy that I want to take a longer look at is Bucky Hodges from VTech. Impressive size and athleticism as well as some solid tape tracking the ball on deeper throws. He's got the size to play inline, but has only played TE for few years and was split out alot in college (like most TEs these days).

Jake Butt is another prospect that I like, but he'll miss next season. If he's there in rd 4 I'd scoop him up.

Alot of the rest of the TE's in this class are the flex type of guys that I don't think would be a good fit since we already have Brate. If we spend a pick on a TE it has to be one that can block in the run game. That is why Howard and Roberts are my 2 favs
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:43 am

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Lots of intriguing talent at TE in this draft.

Howard's at the top of my round 1 wish list, but if not him we can find a guy in round 2, 3, or 4.


I still like Michael Roberts and think he'll go alot higher than many are projecting, maybe even day 2.

A guy that I want to take a longer look at is Bucky Hodges from VTech. Impressive size and athleticism as well as some solid tape tracking the ball on deeper throws. He's got the size to play inline, but has only played TE for few years and was split out alot in college (like most TEs these days).

Jake Butt is another prospect that I like, but he'll miss next season. If he's there in rd 4 I'd scoop him up.

Alot of the rest of the TE's in this class are the flex type of guys that I don't think would be a good fit since we already have Brate. If we spend a pick on a TE it has to be one that can block in the run game. That is why Howard and Roberts are my 2 favs


Agree in terms of adding that type of TE. Ideally a guy who can both be a weapon and run block, and at the least run block so Brate can do his finesse game. That's why Howard is damn near perfect.

I liked Jeremy Sprinkle as a big physical receiver/blocker in the mid rounds before the combine, and he tested better than I thought. I was expected him to run in the 4.8s and he ran a 4.69. If we miss out on Howard in round 1, Sprinkle in the mid rounds would be a great add. I think he'd start Day 1, and while he's not a speedster, he's a good receiver and an excellent run blocker.

Disappointed in Njoku I have to say. I was really hoping he'd run in the 4.4s like alot of folks were predicting, but that didn't happen, and he's much too raw on tape to gamble on him at 19 IMO.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby terrytate » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Rocker wrote:I find it ironic that so many posters label Brate as a pedestrian talent, JAG, mediocre guy. He was tied with the most TDs at his position last year; and gave us plenty of clutch plays. I'm not putting him in the Hall or anything, but I feel he's pretty undervalued around here.

.02



I like Brate. I view him a lot like one of the great unsung Bucs heroes, Dave Moore. His ability to contribute can't be measured with a scale, stopwatch or tape measure, he just gets things done. That said, there are a number of TE's in this draft that are capable of so much more than Brate. Guys with the speed to test the safties, the size and power to be dominant blockers, etc. As I said before, I want to draft one of these TE's to use both the rookie and Brate at the same time.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:55 pm

We're fine at TE. Everyone wants one of these new age TEs like Gronk or Graham, but the reality is that they are the exception. There are a lot of copy cats that come out, and teams always think they can get the next one, but that's not really the case. You usually end up with something closer to Tim Wright than Jimmy Graham. There is a lot of talent at TE in this draft and I'm betting one will emerge as that "next gen elite" guy, the problem is we have no way of know who the heck it is. While every draft pick is a gamble, I feel TE is even more so. And you pass on some premo talent when you try to catch that lightning in the bottle TE. Look at all the players the Lions passed on to draft Eric Ebron (OBJ, Aaron Donald, etc) or the Bengals to get Tyler Eifert (Trufant, Rhodes, Hopkins) or Jermaine Gresham (D. Thomas, Dez Bryant).... and sure, you can play hindsight with any pick, but I'm talking position. TE is simply not a position you should chase. But it's a copy cat league and everyone wants a Gronk.

Brate is a greatTE. The "upgrade" you'd get isn't worth the failure rate risk that top 20 drafted TEs have. If there's a nice guy there in the middle rounds like a Butt or Hodges, sure, go for it. The risk/reward potential makes sense there. But in the first? No way.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby bearlandbucfan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Nice mock, Doc... Some slipping and sliding going on, but not unbelievable.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby Four Verticals » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:55 pm

The Bucs need an inline TE. If you want a running game that is. If Howard isn't available in the first then take the next one down. Roberts would be my choice. Both can play right away. Stating that the team doesn't need an upgrade at the position is naive.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby terrytate » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:01 am

Doctor wrote:We're fine at TE. Everyone wants one of these new age TEs like Gronk or Graham, but the reality is that they are the exception. There are a lot of copy cats that come out, and teams always think they can get the next one, but that's not really the case. You usually end up with something closer to Tim Wright than Jimmy Graham. There is a lot of talent at TE in this draft and I'm betting one will emerge as that "next gen elite" guy, the problem is we have no way of know who the heck it is. While every draft pick is a gamble, I feel TE is even more so. And you pass on some premo talent when you try to catch that lightning in the bottle TE. Look at all the players the Lions passed on to draft Eric Ebron (OBJ, Aaron Donald, etc) or the Bengals to get Tyler Eifert (Trufant, Rhodes, Hopkins) or Jermaine Gresham (D. Thomas, Dez Bryant).... and sure, you can play hindsight with any pick, but I'm talking position. TE is simply not a position you should chase. But it's a copy cat league and everyone wants a Gronk.

Brate is a greatTE. The "upgrade" you'd get isn't worth the failure rate risk that top 20 drafted TEs have. If there's a nice guy there in the middle rounds like a Butt or Hodges, sure, go for it. The risk/reward potential makes sense there. But in the first? No way.



Respectfully, I disagree. The problem with Tim Wright is that he is both smaller and slower than Mike Evans but trying to be a TE. I am not advocating a reach for a TE, this draft features a cornucopia of elite TE talent. Not all of them are the new age "WR at the TE spot" breed either. In fact, that is not really what I want. Howard, for example, has been more of a blocking TE than a Jimmy Graham is school. I am looking at the guys who have wheels AND can maul an OLB.

Just because some other teams missed talent when reaching for a guy doesn't mean looking for a beast TE is a bad idea. You can go back through the draft and make that case for every position. We did it with Gaines Adams, does that mean looking for a DE is a bad idea? Also, Tyler Eifert scored 13 td's in 2015 and likely would have done more this year if not for injury, he's not your best example.

No, I am advocating for a well rounded TE who may well be the BPA when we pick. I favor Howard but there is a very solid chance he won't even be on the board at 19. It's ok though, there will be quality guys to be had as late as the third.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:00 am

One that the DE's actually dislike because he has no problem getting in their face and irritate the hell out of them without holding.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby Kress » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:56 am

Doctor wrote:We're fine at TE. Everyone wants one of these new age TEs like Gronk or Graham, but the reality is that they are the exception. There are a lot of copy cats that come out, and teams always think they can get the next one, but that's not really the case. You usually end up with something closer to Tim Wright than Jimmy Graham. There is a lot of talent at TE in this draft and I'm betting one will emerge as that "next gen elite" guy, the problem is we have no way of know who the heck it is. While every draft pick is a gamble, I feel TE is even more so. And you pass on some premo talent when you try to catch that lightning in the bottle TE. Look at all the players the Lions passed on to draft Eric Ebron (OBJ, Aaron Donald, etc) or the Bengals to get Tyler Eifert (Trufant, Rhodes, Hopkins) or Jermaine Gresham (D. Thomas, Dez Bryant).... and sure, you can play hindsight with any pick, but I'm talking position. TE is simply not a position you should chase. But it's a copy cat league and everyone wants a Gronk.

Brate is a greatTE. The "upgrade" you'd get isn't worth the failure rate risk that top 20 drafted TEs have. If there's a nice guy there in the middle rounds like a Butt or Hodges, sure, go for it. The risk/reward potential makes sense there. But in the first? No way.



You can say that about any position. Booger was the next Sapp, then McCoy was. Then Piscatelli was the next Lynch. Then Adams was the next Rice. At least until what's his name was, and then the other what's his name, and the current what's his name.....
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:04 am

Doctor wrote:We're fine at TE. Everyone wants one of these new age TEs like Gronk or Graham, but the reality is that they are the exception. There are a lot of copy cats that come out, and teams always think they can get the next one, but that's not really the case. You usually end up with something closer to Tim Wright than Jimmy Graham. There is a lot of talent at TE in this draft and I'm betting one will emerge as that "next gen elite" guy, the problem is we have no way of know who the heck it is. While every draft pick is a gamble, I feel TE is even more so. And you pass on some premo talent when you try to catch that lightning in the bottle TE. Look at all the players the Lions passed on to draft Eric Ebron (OBJ, Aaron Donald, etc) or the Bengals to get Tyler Eifert (Trufant, Rhodes, Hopkins) or Jermaine Gresham (D. Thomas, Dez Bryant).... and sure, you can play hindsight with any pick, but I'm talking position. TE is simply not a position you should chase. But it's a copy cat league and everyone wants a Gronk.

Brate is a greatTE. The "upgrade" you'd get isn't worth the failure rate risk that top 20 drafted TEs have. If there's a nice guy there in the middle rounds like a Butt or Hodges, sure, go for it. The risk/reward potential makes sense there. But in the first? No way.



I'm thinking more along the lines of do we want to improve dramatically our three rotational TE's or not? If not why? Why would we risk waiting only to see later round TE's that cant even make our roster.
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Re: Doctor's First Buc Mock

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:08 am

Engram ran a faster 40 than Beckham Jr! If he is flying down the middle one of the sidelines is vulnerable ---------------------- very vulnerable.
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