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SLB

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:30 am

Who are your strongside linebackers in this draft? Or has anyone even considered one in our draft - I dont recall seeing one.
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Re: SLB

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:42 am

mdb1958 wrote:Who are your strongside linebackers in this draft? Or has anyone even considered one in our draft - I dont recall seeing one.


LB prospects are not often classified as 'SLB' or 'WLB' during the draft process in my experience, instead they are pegged as '4-3 LB', 'off LOS LB', or just 'OLB' which mixes them up w/ the 3-4 OLB that fall into the 'EDGE' category. Some sites (like CBS) have an 'ILB' category which I'm not a fan of.

Personally I prefer LBs in the draft process to be categorized as '4-3 LB' or even 'off LOS LB' for those that never play with there hand in the dirt, then throw all the 3-4 OLBs and DE in the 'EDGE' category. Then put the 4-3 DTs and 3-4 DE/DTs in the 'interior D-line' category. Will all the multiple fronts we see in NFL these days it's the best way segment players imho.

Back to your post, we have last years 5th rd pick Devonte Bond returning so I don't see us drafting a LB very high, if at all. I think we'll sign a veteran LB to compete with Bond as well. With Kwon and LVD being our 3-down LBs it really isn't a pressing need.

Sean Weatherspoon is a vet that has fallen down the depth chart in Atlanta so he could be available in FA. He has experience w/ Mike Smith similar to Darryl Smith.
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Re: SLB

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:48 am

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Who are your strongside linebackers in this draft? Or has anyone even considered one in our draft - I dont recall seeing one.


LB prospects are not often classified as 'SLB' or 'WLB' during the draft process in my experience, instead they are pegged as '4-3 LB', 'off LOS LB', or just 'OLB' which mixes them up w/ the 3-4 OLB that fall into the 'EDGE' category. Some sites (like CBS) have an 'ILB' category which I'm not a fan of.

Personally I prefer LBs in the draft process to be categorized as '4-3 LB' or even 'off LOS LB' for those that never play with there hand in the dirt, then throw all the 3-4 OLBs and DE in the 'EDGE' category. Then put the 4-3 DTs and 3-4 DE/DTs in the 'interior D-line' category. Will all the multiple fronts we see in NFL these days it's the best way segment players imho.

Back to your post, we have last years 5th rd pick Devonte Bond returning so I don't see us drafting a LB very high, if at all. I think we'll sign a veteran LB to compete with Bond as well. With Kwon and LVD being our 3-down LBs it really isn't a pressing need.

Sean Weatherspoon is a vet that has fallen down the depth chart in Atlanta so he could be available in FA. He has experience w/ Mike Smith similar to Darryl Smith.




It would have been easier to say "I dont have one". So -------------- care to pretend like you do have one!
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Re: SLB

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:51 am

Agreed on Bond. I think they give him a shot in training camp. Glanton has played well at times as well. Witherspoon would be an interesting option but that dude is always injured. If he were to come here and start, he better be splitting practice reps with Bond cause I doubt he goes 16 games.

An interesting option may be Jabrill Peppers (don't shoot me). He'd be an interesting S/LB prospect that would be like a big nickel or a Rover. I think that's going to be the position that he will thrive in in the NFL.
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Re: SLB

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:56 am

mdb1958 wrote:It would have been easier to say "I dont have one". So -------------- care to pretend like you do have one!


DreadNaught wrote:we have last years 5th rd pick Devonte Bond returning so I don't see us drafting a LB very high, if at all. I think we'll sign a veteran LB to compete with Bond as well. With Kwon and LVD being our 3-down LBs it really isn't a pressing need.

Sean Weatherspoon is a vet that has fallen down the depth chart in Atlanta so he could be available in FA. He has experience w/ Mike Smith similar to Darryl Smith.
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Re: SLB

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:08 am

Bucs N Beers wrote:
An interesting option may be Jabrill Peppers (don't shoot me). He'd be an interesting S/LB prospect that would be like a big nickel or a Rover. I think that's going to be the position that he will thrive in in the NFL.


No shots need fired..it's a good thought...the only issues I'd have with it is our run D...

We haven't been very good against the run and I am unsure how Peppers would help...is he stout enough/strong enough..

If our other defenders played the run better, this wouldn't be as big of a deal, however that isn't the case...

Putting Peppers at SLB/S/NB/Rover would allow us a TON of flexibility and we could disguise coverages and schemes really putting the offense at a disadvantage...


Just some food for thought...
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Re: SLB

Postby Cheb » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:37 am

Super K wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:
An interesting option may be Jabrill Peppers (don't shoot me). He'd be an interesting S/LB prospect that would be like a big nickel or a Rover. I think that's going to be the position that he will thrive in in the NFL.


No shots need fired..it's a good thought...the only issues I'd have with it is our run D...

We haven't been very good against the run and I am unsure how Peppers would help...is he stout enough/strong enough..

If our other defenders played the run better, this wouldn't be as big of a deal, however that isn't the case...

Putting Peppers at SLB/S/NB/Rover would allow us a TON of flexibility and we could disguise coverages and schemes really putting the offense at a disadvantage...


Just some food for thought...


It's a good thought. Peppers would offer alot of schematic versatility. Depending on how the draft shakes out and how we would use him, I would definitely support him in Tampa.
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Re: SLB

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:17 pm

I think we go the cheap vet route here.
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Re: SLB

Postby SIBucsFan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:23 pm

While I won't go as far as to say SLB is unimportant, it is a position that takes a backseat to every other position on defense in terms of importance.

Daryl Smith played 44.82% of the snaps last season; in the link below, that appears to be the total amount of plays the SLB was inserted into our defense.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... counts.htm

So as far as getting a new SLB, the options would be

1.) Devante Bond
2.) Aldarius Glanton
3.) Cheap vet pick-up, a la Daryl Smith, such as the aforementined Weatherspoon
4.) mid-to-late round rookie that comes in and impresses enough to win the job (to somewhat answer your question, perhaps Houston's Steven Taylor, Temple's Haason Reddick, Tennessee's Jalen Reeves-Maybin, Illinois' Hardy Nickerson Jr., all expected to be drafted no earlier than the 4th round as of today, maybe undrafted.)
5.) Cameron Lynch

Not much excitement for this position here as far as team needs in the present and the future. If there's any position on defense that is becoming obsolete, it is the third-backer, in our case and many other cases the 4-3 SLB. That's been the case for a while now. That's even been a trend with the Bucs, no matter the head coach. From Singleton to Nece to Gold to June, Quincy Black, Dekoda Watson, Danny Lansanah, most recently Daryl Smith, they have all been acquired through lesser means (late draft picks, cheap FA pick-ups, UDAs, etc, with the exception of Gold and June, who were too expensive to begin with and didn't last long because of that).
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Re: SLB

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Ya, bring in a vet to compete with Glanton and Bond. Easy.
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Re: SLB

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:37 pm

Sure, bring in a cheap vet..IF we want to continue to use and view SLB the same as we have the last 20 years..

The idea of putting Peppers there (or another talent) is dependent upon and would necessitate a fundamental change to how the SLB plays in "our" system..

And this is not out of the realm of possibility...Smith is not a Kiffin, Tampa 2 disciple...and there is nothing written in stone saying that he will build and play this D the same way he did in Jax (if he did I would've thought we'd see some bigger DT's upfront by now anyway)..

We "we've always done" doesn't mean squat anymore..not saying it'll change, but don't be surprised if it does..
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Re: SLB

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:47 pm

Super K wrote:Sure, bring in a cheap vet..IF we want to continue to use and view SLB the same as we have the last 20 years..

The idea of putting Peppers there (or another talent) is dependent upon and would necessitate a fundamental change to how the SLB plays in "our" system..

And this is not out of the realm of possibility...Smith is not a Kiffin, Tampa 2 disciple...and there is nothing written in stone saying that he will build and play this D the same way he did in Jax (if he did I would've thought we'd see some bigger DT's upfront by now anyway)..

We "we've always done" doesn't mean squat anymore..not saying it'll change, but don't be surprised if it does..


If we drafted Peppers, I'd put him at safety. We already are light as **** in our front 7. Peppers/Kwon/David would be the smallest LB trio in the league, I don't even have to look that up I'm so sure. Plus with Gholston a FA and Spence sure to get more PT, our front 4 is pretty light right now too.

Foster I'd be interested in as a SLB at 19 though. Then you could sub out Gholston and have David rush the passer in nickel packages with Foster and Kwon staying on the field as LBs.
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Re: SLB

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:05 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:Sure, bring in a cheap vet..IF we want to continue to use and view SLB the same as we have the last 20 years..

The idea of putting Peppers there (or another talent) is dependent upon and would necessitate a fundamental change to how the SLB plays in "our" system..

And this is not out of the realm of possibility...Smith is not a Kiffin, Tampa 2 disciple...and there is nothing written in stone saying that he will build and play this D the same way he did in Jax (if he did I would've thought we'd see some bigger DT's upfront by now anyway)..

We "we've always done" doesn't mean squat anymore..not saying it'll change, but don't be surprised if it does..


If we drafted Peppers, I'd put him at safety. We already are light as **** in our front 7. Peppers/Kwon/David would be the smallest LB trio in the league, I don't even have to look that up I'm so sure. Plus with Gholston a FA and Spence sure to get more PT, our front 4 is pretty light right now too.

Foster I'd be interested in as a SLB at 19 though. Then you could sub out Gholston and have David rush the passer in nickel packages with Foster and Kwon staying on the field as LBs.


You're not wrong about our LB corps being small..even without the addition of Peppers they are pretty small..hence why I've pounder the table for a true "Thumper" type MLB in other threads..but I digress...

What you proposed could work...again though, it's a change from how we "normally" see our defense play..I, for one, think it's beyond time we tried something different...

We've, basically, been trying to run the same defense with the same type of personnel for 20 years now..2002 ain't coming back..

Quick UT that gets up field and disrupts the play..

Fast DE coming off the blindside..

Undersized DL predicated on disrupting with speed opposed to power..

Undersized LB'S who are "supposed" to be good tacklers in space and great in coverage..

Zone coverage on the backend...

Big hitting SS..ballhawk FS..

Change or die (heard this in a movie I think)...
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Re: SLB

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:51 pm

I personally don't care about a LB's size. I'd be fine with Peppers-Kwon-LVD at LB. Assuming we bring Will Gholston back to pair w/ Robert Ayers then we'll have strong/stout DE's, and there has been plenty of discussion about the need for BIG addition at DT opposite McCoy that would be upgrade vs the run compared to what McDonald provides.

A big strong LB in a 4-3 is a luxury in run defense, but if they can't cover RB's/TE's than they are a liability. So the days of a thumper at MLB are over just like the days of the lead blocking FB for the most part.

I'd be fine w/ Peppers in whatever role he found, ideally imho that be some type of 3rd LB/Safety hybrid. The guy has good football instincts and talent who can play the run, blitz, and cover. We could always move Peppers to Safety or sub-in Bond/Glanton as the 3rd LB in short yardage or goal line situations if we wanted heavier personnel.
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Re: SLB

Postby Super K » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
I'd be fine w/ Peppers in whatever role he found, ideally imho that be some type of 3rd LB/Safety hybrid. The guy has good football instincts and talent who can play the run, blitz, and cover. We could always move Peppers to Safety or sub-in Bond/Glanton as the 3rd LB in short yardage or goal line situations if we wanted heavier personnel.



Now you're cooking with grease..

Peppers at SLB..able to play a hybrid role and allowing us to play either base or nickel every snap... moving him back to a full safety role on GL and subbing in a bigger LB...

THAT'S ingenuity and creativity...something we've lacked, on D, for a long, long time..
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Re: SLB

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:07 pm

4.) mid-to-late round rookie that comes in and impresses enough to win the job (to somewhat answer your question, perhaps Houston's Steven Taylor, Temple's Haason Reddick, Tennessee's Jalen Reeves-Maybin, Illinois' Hardy Nickerson Jr., all expected to be drafted no earlier than the 4th round as of today, maybe undrafted.)


Where did this info come from? The as of today part.
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Re: SLB

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Super K wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I'd be fine w/ Peppers in whatever role he found, ideally imho that be some type of 3rd LB/Safety hybrid. The guy has good football instincts and talent who can play the run, blitz, and cover. We could always move Peppers to Safety or sub-in Bond/Glanton as the 3rd LB in short yardage or goal line situations if we wanted heavier personnel.



Now you're cooking with grease..

Peppers at SLB..able to play a hybrid role and allowing us to play either base or nickel every snap... moving him back to a full safety role on GL and subbing in a bigger LB...

THAT'S ingenuity and creativity...something we've lacked, on D, for a long, long time..




I actually wondered if Obi could do this. Or Josh Harvey-Clemons.
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Re: SLB

Postby Bucs N Beers » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:25 am

Just for numbers sake. Peppers is listed at 6'1" 207lbs. For comparison, Shaq Thompson is 6'0" 229lbs. So Peppers would indeed be a very small LB. like DN said it would probably need to be a sub package type of deal.

Passing situations: Safeties - Tandy/McDougald, Peppers at Rover
Running situations: Safeties - Tandy/Peppers, Bond/other at SLB.
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Re: SLB

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:51 am

Peppers could role play as a SAM/Nickle hybrid, but if you want to take a Saftey from this class and make a Sam out of him I think Josh Harvey-Clemons is your guy at 230lbs.
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Re: SLB

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:18 am

Super K wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I'd be fine w/ Peppers in whatever role he found, ideally imho that be some type of 3rd LB/Safety hybrid. The guy has good football instincts and talent who can play the run, blitz, and cover. We could always move Peppers to Safety or sub-in Bond/Glanton as the 3rd LB in short yardage or goal line situations if we wanted heavier personnel.



Now you're cooking with grease..

Peppers at SLB..able to play a hybrid role and allowing us to play either base or nickel every snap... moving him back to a full safety role on GL and subbing in a bigger LB...

THAT'S ingenuity and creativity...something we've lacked, on D, for a long, long time..

That's also a lot to put on a rookies plate. Learning 3 positions?
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Re: SLB

Postby Super K » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:59 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:

Now you're cooking with grease..

Peppers at SLB..able to play a hybrid role and allowing us to play either base or nickel every snap... moving him back to a full safety role on GL and subbing in a bigger LB...

THAT'S ingenuity and creativity...something we've lacked, on D, for a long, long time..

That's also a lot to put on a rookies plate. Learning 3 positions?


He damn near did the same thing at Michigan...

Under a former NFL HC..it's not like he's a QB coming from a spread offense and has to "learn" how to play the game..he is well versed...

Now, will there he a learning curve, bumps and bruises along the way due to more complex schemes and upper echelon talent? Yes..but those would, hopefully, be offset by his overall play, if not by some nice splash plays..

The kid's versatility is what makes him special and gives him a leg up on other prospects..

And just for the record, this conversation is all shits and giggles IMO...Peppers is going to go in round #1..so, for this to happen we'd have to take him at #19..I don't want that no way no how...

I just like the discussion...gets the mind and juices flowing..and it sure beats the hell out of arguing about OJ Howard, WR vs OL for pick #19 etc...
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Re: SLB

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:07 pm

Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:That's also a lot to put on a rookies plate. Learning 3 positions?


He damn near did the same thing at Michigan...

Under a former NFL HC..it's not like he's a QB coming from a spread offense and has to "learn" how to play the game..he is well versed...

Now, will there he a learning curve, bumps and bruises along the way due to more complex schemes and upper echelon talent? Yes..but those would, hopefully, be offset by his overall play, if not by some nice splash plays..

The kid's versatility is what makes him special and gives him a leg up on other prospects..

And just for the record, this conversation is all shits and giggles IMO...Peppers is going to go in round #1..so, for this to happen we'd have to take him at #19..I don't want that no way no how...

I just like the discussion...gets the mind and juices flowing..and it sure beats the hell out of arguing about OJ Howard, WR vs OL for pick #19 etc...


I currently have Peppers 13th on my big board, so I wouldn't be too upset with him at 19 depending on who is off the board.

But if I draft him, I just stick him at SS beside Tandy. He could have some looks at nickel and at LB, but I'd let him focus on learning the safety position first.

And very much agree with your last point! Not pooping on discussing ideas at all, just disagreeing with the idea of him playing 3 positions as a rookie.
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Re: SLB

Postby Sammich » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:55 pm

When we do use a SAM he is generally lined up pretty close to the LOS. I just don't see a 210 pound guy holding up to that consistently no matter how talented he is. The other team would run right at him over and over. If a pulling guard even farts in his general direction its over.

I'm not saying I don't want to draft him. He sounds a lot like Mark Barron (a guy I feel we should have kept), but if we draft a safety then let's play him at safety.
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Re: SLB

Postby terrytate » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:23 pm

Sammich wrote:When we do use a SAM he is generally lined up pretty close to the LOS. I just don't see a 210 pound guy holding up to that consistently no matter how talented he is. The other team would run right at him over and over. If a pulling guard even farts in his general direction its over.

I'm not saying I don't want to draft him. He sounds a lot like Mark Barron (a guy I feel we should have kept), but if we draft a safety then let's play him at safety.



He seems to be better at playing deep coverage than Barron was. If we draft Peppers, it will be as a safety. It looks like his best position and it's where we are most devoid of talent. No need to overthink it or get cute. We could certainly use a safety who is as comfortable near the line as he is patrolling deep, especially when they guy might clock in the 4.3 range and lays the hits.

Or am I the only one the remembers the plays in every game where a big pass was completed against us because they safety was MIA or really late?
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Re: SLB

Postby MJW » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:02 am

How does this thread get this far and nobody mentions Deone Bucannon in Arizona?

He's the same dude. Just not as talented. 6'1 211 and he's either at a linebacker spot, knifing through holes and around stunts, or he's dropping back as an extra safety at the snap. But he never has to leave the field.

Now, obviously the Cards scheme is different from ours, but with Mike Smith (instead of Lovie) it's no longer so different that we couldn't use Peppers basically the same way - up as the 3rd linebacker sometimes, dropping into zone others, or Kam Chancelloring the crossing stuff underneath.

I would honestly be thrilled to bring him in as a hybrid defender here, and it would show more imagination than our scheme has shown in decades.
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Re: SLB

Postby MJW » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:05 am

But, it's more likely as others have said we look for an affordable veteran to play 25 snaps a game on running and short yardage downs. Mark Herzlich would be interesting and cheap.
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Re: SLB

Postby terrytate » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:05 am

MJW wrote:How does this thread get this far and nobody mentions Deone Bucannon in Arizona?

He's the same dude. Just not as talented. 6'1 211 and he's either at a linebacker spot, knifing through holes and around stunts, or he's dropping back as an extra safety at the snap. But he never has to leave the field.

Now, obviously the Cards scheme is different from ours, but with Mike Smith (instead of Lovie) it's no longer so different that we couldn't use Peppers basically the same way - up as the 3rd linebacker sometimes, dropping into zone others, or Kam Chancelloring the crossing stuff underneath.

I would honestly be thrilled to bring him in as a hybrid defender here, and it would show more imagination than our scheme has shown in decades.



The Cardinals put Bucannon in at LB because they have some talent at safety, also because of Sean Witherspoons injury. They also playing him on the inside where they have a 3 strong linemen in front of him to protect him from getting smeared by power running.

Putting Peppers in at SAM won't offer him the same protection. You are just asking to have a lineman pull and smear him. There are many TE's who would outweigh him by 40+ pounds for him to contend with. We sure as hell won't be subbing Kwon out for him since Kwon wears the radio.

I'd much rather just keep him at safety and move him around the field as needed.
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Re: SLB

Postby Caradoc » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:35 am

I'd take Peppers at 19, and I think he will be there. He would work fine for us, people get too obsessed about size and traditional lineups. He is a two-birds/one stone addition IMO. As others mentioned with Buchannon he would potentially never have to leave the field, and would prove a major annoyance for opposing OCs
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Re: SLB

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:29 am

MJW wrote:How does this thread get this far and nobody mentions Deone Bucannon in Arizona?

He's the same dude. Just not as talented. 6'1 211 and he's either at a linebacker spot, knifing through holes and around stunts, or he's dropping back as an extra safety at the snap. But he never has to leave the field.

Now, obviously the Cards scheme is different from ours, but with Mike Smith (instead of Lovie) it's no longer so different that we couldn't use Peppers basically the same way - up as the 3rd linebacker sometimes, dropping into zone others, or Kam Chancelloring the crossing stuff underneath.

I would honestly be thrilled to bring him in as a hybrid defender here, and it would show more imagination than our scheme has shown in decades.



But, Deone was the 27th pick. A we went to the playoffs pick...
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Re: SLB

Postby Nano » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:47 am

**** does that have to do with anything?
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