Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:56 pm

pewterpirates wrote:If he falls to 19 and we take him, would we also stick him back at kick returner?


Falls?

I still don't think he's a likely top 20 player. It was about 50/50 whether he would go in the first round previously. I know his time was great and teams will fall for that, but he still has a few big question marks. He's wouldn't be a "steal" or run to the podium type player at 19. I think that's too high for him personally.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Kress » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:34 am

Bucs are reported to sign DeSean Jackson today. That ends the Ross discussion.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:47 am

Kress wrote:Bucs are reported to sign DeSean Jackson today. That ends the Ross discussion.


For casual fans it does.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:47 am

Kress wrote:Bucs are reported to sign DeSean Jackson today. That ends the Ross discussion.


It doesn't end the Ross discussion if he's available. But I'm sure we upped our pursuit of Jackson after that 40 time because he won't be available. I think the odds of Ross being there at 19 is less than 10 percent.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Teitan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:50 am

Kress wrote:Bucs are reported to sign DeSean Jackson today. That ends the Ross discussion.



I don't think so. I don't see him being the pick anyway but it doesn't rule him out. Licht signed Grimes and then drafted VH.

Man would this offense be explosive with Ross added in.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:50 am

Brazen331 wrote:It doesn't end the Ross discussion if he's available. But I'm sure we upped our pursuit of Jackson after that 40 time because he won't be available. I think the odds of Ross being there at 19 is less than 10 percent.


Well, I'm willing to give you some free equity in a bet. Just give me seven to one on a bet on Ross being there at 19 and collect your EV!
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:58 am

Kress wrote:Bucs are reported to sign DeSean Jackson today. That ends the Ross discussion.

I wish it did, but not really. Countless examples of signing then drafting a similar player have been made. Plus, it never hurts to have more weapons, and depth is still lacking at WR.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:52 pm

For those who want Ross does his injury history concern you?
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:15 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:For those who want Ross does his injury history concern you?


He had 1150 yards and 17 receiving TDs last year. His injuries don't concern me.

Can he beat NFL-quality press coverage? That concerns me.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:32 pm

Cheb wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:For those who want Ross does his injury history concern you?


He had 1150 yards and 17 receiving TDs last year. His injuries don't concern me.

Can he beat NFL-quality press coverage? That concerns me.



That's why drafting him now, allowing him to come in and be a difference maker rather than a starter is smart..

Put him in the slot...protect him from that press coverage...

Put him in motion..

Develop him and give him the skills needed to beat said coverage..

And he can learn it from one of the best in DJax...
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Teitan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:34 pm

Defenses would hate us.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby 81mm Shake and Bake » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:52 pm

Teitan wrote:Defenses would hate us.


With just this one trick?
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:57 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:For those who want Ross does his injury history concern you?


Shoulder maybe because it's current. But as Cheb stated he perfomed well and was 1st team all Pac 12 on 2 reconstructed knees. His risk of tearing an ACL is the same as any player in the draft.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:58 pm

Cheb wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:For those who want Ross does his injury history concern you?


He had 1150 yards and 17 receiving TDs last year. His injuries don't concern me.

Can he beat NFL-quality press coverage? That concerns me.

Can he take NFL hits concerns me.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Sammich » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:50 pm

I love Ross' speed, but there are a lot of things about him that scare me, but his injury history scares me the most. He has had operations on both his knees and a shoulder. I mean he was limping around after running his forty. I know it was just cramps, but still. What's gonna happen when NFL defenses get a hold of him?
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:53 pm

Sammich wrote:I love Ross' speed, but there are a lot of things about him that scare me, but his injury history scares me the most. He has had operations on both his knees and a shoulder. I mean he was limping around after running his forty. I know it was just cramps, but still. What's gonna happen when NFL defenses get a hold of him?


Are you worried he'll injure his knees or shoulder again?
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby GameTime » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:03 pm

Aside from the injuries, hes a guy with just one year of production. He is certainly exciting, but probably better options at 19.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby terrytate » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:53 pm

GameTime wrote:Aside from the injuries, hes a guy with just one year of production. He is certainly exciting, but probably better options at 19.



That's my take. If the doctors like him, he might not even be there. Even if he is, there are likely to be guys with just as much talent that would fill a bigger hole. I am a big fan of OJ Howard, there are some top shelf DB's that might be there too. Maybe even a guy like Ramczyk if One Buc is dishing out some fake news and actually does have tackle as a priority.

If One Buc feels he's the clear BPA at our pick, I wouldn't cry though. We aren't THAT deep at WR, even with Desean, and injuries happen. If we draft Ross, and he works out like we hope, when it comes time to pay him it will also be at the end of Desean Jackson's contract. Ross can step right in and we let Jackson walk or sign him to a more friendly deal to close out his career.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:27 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Sammich wrote:I love Ross' speed, but there are a lot of things about him that scare me, but his injury history scares me the most. He has had operations on both his knees and a shoulder. I mean he was limping around after running his forty. I know it was just cramps, but still. What's gonna happen when NFL defenses get a hold of him?


Are you worried he'll injure his knees or shoulder again?

I am. Chances of injuring your ACL is higher if you already have. It's even higher for the other knee that wasn't injured. Chances of re-injury go down about 8% every year after, but his surgery was 2015. Not only that, just worried about the overall quality of his body and health to take punishment. The guy LOOKS frail. If I'm taking a short, fast guy, I'd at least want him to be thick and stocky like Percy Harvin.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Cheb » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:34 am

Doctor wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Are you worried he'll injure his knees or shoulder again?

I am. Chances of injuring your ACL is higher if you already have. It's even higher for the other knee that wasn't injured. Chances of re-injury go down about 8% every year after, but his surgery was 2015. Not only that, just worried about the overall quality of his body and health to take punishment. The guy LOOKS frail. If I'm taking a short, fast guy, I'd at least want him to be thick and stocky like Percy Harvin.


The size difference between Percy Harvin and John Ross at their respective combines was 3/8 of an inch in height and four pounds.

You are splitting hairs.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:31 pm

Didn't he also tear his meniscus?
Tough to deal with long-term...
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:53 pm

Cheb wrote:
Doctor wrote:I am. Chances of injuring your ACL is higher if you already have. It's even higher for the other knee that wasn't injured. Chances of re-injury go down about 8% every year after, but his surgery was 2015. Not only that, just worried about the overall quality of his body and health to take punishment. The guy LOOKS frail. If I'm taking a short, fast guy, I'd at least want him to be thick and stocky like Percy Harvin.


The size difference between Percy Harvin and John Ross at their respective combines was 3/8 of an inch in height and four pounds.

You are splitting hairs.

I know what the measurable say, which is why I said LOOKS. I'm not going to go into how much of the weight is bone density vs fat vs muscle vs whatever, mostly because I simply don't have that info and don't really care. I was saying it purely from an eyeball test. I don't like "small speedster" troupe, I think it's way overblown and overhyped when coming out of the draft. I've only thrown my support behind a couple over the years. Harvin was one because he at least passed the eyeball test.

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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:16 pm

You should know then that LOOKS are deceiving. Harvin LOOKED sterdy but he was anything but. He always missed time with injury. You've managed to refute your own point. You threw your support around a speedster who couldn't stay healthy because you thought he LOOKED built enough.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Sammich » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:18 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Sammich wrote:I love Ross' speed, but there are a lot of things about him that scare me, but his injury history scares me the most. He has had operations on both his knees and a shoulder. I mean he was limping around after running his forty. I know it was just cramps, but still. What's gonna happen when NFL defenses get a hold of him?


Are you worried he'll injure his knees or shoulder again?



All of the above plus everything else. I'm just not comfortable gambling a first on a guy with that much injury history. We're not talking about an ankle sprain or a broken hand here- these are serious injuries. A guy whose game is entirely based around speed with 2 surgically repaired knees is a time bomb.
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Re: Todd McShay has us taking John Ross

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:30 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:You should know then that LOOKS are deceiving. Harvin LOOKED sterdy but he was anything but. He always missed time with injury. You've managed to refute your own point. You threw your support around a speedster who couldn't stay healthy because you thought he LOOKED built enough.

Harvin's biggest problem was migraines. Can't really do much about that. But I'm not refuting my point I'm making it. I don't trust small speedsters out of college. Harvin, who at least looked the part coming out of college, like you say still wasn't big enough to take the hits. Not many guys are. Guys like Steve Smith and Desean Jackson are rare, and if I'm a GM I'm not going to waste a 1st betting Ross is an exception instead of the rule. He's more likely to be Dexter Jackson than Desean. Now if we were talking the second round, I'd be far more open to it.
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