Bucs Big Board Thread

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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:01 am

Kind of hard to really rank a weapon vs a olineman vs a defensive guy, so have split them up for now.

Defenders:
1. Garrett
2. Thomas
3. Allen
4. Lattimore
5. Hooker
6. Adams
7. Barnett
8. Foster
9. Peppers
10. Humphrey

Weapons:
1. Fournette
2. Howard
3. Cook
4. Davis
5. Williams
6. Ross
7. Engram
8. Njoku
9. McCaffery
10. Mixon
11. Foreman
12. Kamara

OL:
1. Robinson
2. Lamp
3. Ramzcyk
4. Bolles
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:12 am

Final Round 1 Big Board barring massive red flag surprises

1. Myles Garrett, DE
-Freakish edge
2. Solomon Thomas, DL
-Tremendous player who seems locked into the top 5.
3. Jonathan Allen, DL
-All around stud who can play anywhere on the Dline but some medical flags have popped up.
4. Leonard Fournette, RB
-If he avoids the injuries, he's a superstar running back.
5. Marshon Lattimore, CB
-Tremendous shutdown CB with size, but back to back CBs? Does he move Hargreaves to the nickel for a year or is he the dime back? He and Hargreaves would be a tremendous CB duo going forward though, but he's a top 10 lock IMO though there are some medical concerns.
6. Malik Hooker, FS
-Freakish stud, this ranking is assumed he’s cleared medically
7. OJ Howard, TE
-Would simultaneously give Jameis a weapon and help the run game.
8. Jamal Adams, SS
-Plug him in at SS beside Tandy in the Barry Church role.
9. Dalvin Cook, RB
-Winston would not allow Licht to pass on him. Cook is a tremendous RB talent in all facets of the game- minus the occasional drop and fumble. Major character red flags could drop him to 19 where he'd be dificult to pass up.
10. Corey Davis, WR
-Moves ahead of Williams due to how he would complement our other WRs.
11. Mike Williams, WR
-Would give us 2 dynamic down the field monsters at WR.
12. Derek Barnett, DE
-Would be brought along slowly as most edges are, but could eventually team with Spence as a dynamic duo of defensive ends.
13. John Ross, WR
-Major medical concerns, but the guy will be the fastest player in the league the moment he steps on the field. DeSean can be Vincent Jackson to his Mike Evans.
14. Evan Engram, WR/TE
-This pick would require a few things. Firstly, Brate would really need to improve his blocking. He’s never going to have the mentality to be nasty as one, but he has the frame, just needs to improve his technique. Engram lacks the frame but will put his nose in there. Secondly, this is a pick where Koetter would have to be calling for him. You don’t force him on Koetter if he doesn’t fit what Koetter wants, but if Koetter likes him, he could be an insane weapon for this or any offence. The only question is how to utilize him.
15. David Njoku, TE
-Guy is the youngest player in the draft and has the frame to grow into a full sized TE. Raw as a blocker and a receiver, and not a true speedster at TE, but the upside is still tremendous.
16. Cam Robinson, OL
-Tyron Smith upside at LT, but should be a dominant LG at worst
17. Jabrill Peppers, SS
-I think you put him at SS and coach him up. A downhill terror. Wilcox could be the buffer as he adjusts to the pro game.
18. Reuben Foster, LB
-I think he plays the Sam in the base D, then you turn David loose as a pass rusher in nickel situations keeping Foster on the field.
19. McCafferry
-McCaffery is a tremendous weapon, but I don't think he's an every down back who can be the bellcow I believe Koetter wants. Wouldn't be surprised if he proved me wrong though.

Just missed the cut, but other options possibly via trade down.

Plug and Play OLs
Forrest Lamp, OL
Ryan Ramczyk, OL
Garrett Bolles

CBs with size to replace Grimes in a year
Marlon Humphrey, CB
-Might not see the field a ton as a rookie, but could replace Grimes in a year and be a stud opposite Hargreaves.
Kevin King
Sidney Jones
Teez Tabor

Running Back Reaches
Joe Mixon
D’Oonta Foreman
Alvin Kamara
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:00 am

real bucs fan wrote:Final Round 1 Big Board barring massive red flag surprises


I think #5 has massive red flags.

I know #9 has massive red flags.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:03 am

Engram over Njoku?? Engram that high period? Hmmmm


JJSS is 4 months younger than Njoku also. He doesn't turn 21 until November.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am

Naismith wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Final Round 1 Big Board barring massive red flag surprises


I think #5 has massive red flags.

I know #9 has massive red flags.


I'm aware of those red flags. For the most part, I try and not let red flags influence my board too much since I'm neither privy to medical records or the interview process so I"m going on second hand information- unless there's video of it like with the Mixon situation or it's an injury that is guaranteed to cost the player significant time.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:24 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Engram over Njoku?? Engram that high period? Hmmmm


JJSS is 4 months younger than Njoku also. He doesn't turn 21 until November.


My bad on JJSS. Mayock during the combine said that Njoku told him that he was the youngest guy in the draft, and I guess I mistook that for him actually being the youngest guy in the draft.

As for Engram, we've had the discussion before, but I have he and Njoku neck and neck, but gun to my head I'll take Engram assuming the coach can utilize him. I think Engram is going to be one of those most dangerous weapons in the league.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:26 am

I think Lattimore will fall a little bit. I just can't imagine using a top 5-10 pick on a guy that missed so much time in college with hamstring issues, that pulled up lame after running his 40 at the combine. I think his career will be similar to Doug Martin's 2016 season with lots of games missed due to hamstrings and setbacks when he's seemingly ready to return.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:46 pm

Myles Garrett is a ****ing beast. Great bend, great tape, and phenomenal athlete who just ran 4.64 at 272lbs.

No doubt #1 overall pick.

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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm

Browns can't overthink this and take the guy.

If he busts in Cleveland it officially means the Browns are cursed lol
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:21 pm

To be sure, Myles Garrett is in the top one percent of the top one percent of the top one percent of athletic ability and potential. But is he a good-to-great defensive end? Not really.

Call me crazy, but I think that Myles Garrett has a decent chance of busting, or at least proving to not be "worth" the top selection.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Cheb wrote:To be sure, Myles Garrett is in the top one percent of the top one percent of the top one percent of athletic ability and potential. But is he a good-to-great defensive end? Not really.

Call me crazy, but I think that Myles Garrett has a decent chance of busting, or at least proving to not be "worth" the top selection.


Idk bud. Watching Garrett come off the edge it's easy to spot that quickness, bend, and abilty to convert speed to power. So athletic he moves like big RB attacking the OTackle and QB. Derrick Thomas, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack are examples the come to mind. Noah Spence has some of that except he doesn't quite have the burst.

Anyways I just think NFL OTs are going to have a tough time staying front of a 275lb athlete like Garrett. If he's got any kind of motor he'll be a 15 sack guy.

I guess anyone can bust, hell we thought Clowney would bust until he dominated the NFL this past season. Usually elite talents like Garrett come through unless injuries or drugs get in the way.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:46 pm

Also keep in mind that it's not like Garrett has come out of nowhere. He's been viewed as a future number 1 pick for years and has had teams game planning around him this whole time and he's still been productive. He's not a finished product to be sure, but that's partly what makes him so scary.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:26 pm

Cheb wrote:To be sure, Myles Garrett is in the top one percent of the top one percent of the top one percent of athletic ability and potential. But is he a good-to-great defensive end? Not really.

Call me crazy, but I think that Myles Garrett has a decent chance of busting, or at least proving to not be "worth" the top selection.


If not him, who?
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:16 pm

Garrett is an obvious #1 pick in this class. No great QB prospect. Garrett plays the next most valuable position and is a can't miss prospect based every metric I can think you'd want. Like RBF said, hes been projected to the prospect he is since high school. He's Clowney, but with better bend. If he's healthy, he's making plays.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Alpha » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:58 am

Cheb wrote:To be sure, Myles Garrett is in the top one percent of the top one percent of the top one percent of athletic ability and potential. But is he a good-to-great defensive end? Not really.

Call me crazy, but I think that Myles Garrett has a decent chance of busting, or at least proving to not be "worth" the top selection.



(Former Buc) Steve White agrees. He wrote an article for SB Nation a month or so ago, breaking down Garrett's game.

Also...someone on NFL Network pointed out the other day...dude dominated and provided his optimal production against Our Sisters of the Poor. Didn't perform as well against top-flight competition...as opposed to the kid out of Tennessee.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Cheb » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:30 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Cheb wrote:To be sure, Myles Garrett is in the top one percent of the top one percent of the top one percent of athletic ability and potential. But is he a good-to-great defensive end? Not really.

Call me crazy, but I think that Myles Garrett has a decent chance of busting, or at least proving to not be "worth" the top selection.


If not him, who?


Based on the tape? Jamal Adams.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:56 pm

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If not him, who?


Based on the tape? Jamal Adams.


Where does Garrett fall in your evaluation then
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby MJW » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:53 am

FWIW, I think Jonathan Allen is comparable to Garrett as a prospect, and all things being equal a dominant interior defender is worth more to me than a dominant edge guy.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:37 am

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If not him, who?


Based on the tape? Jamal Adams.


So you'd draft Safety Jamal Adams over Myles Garrett #1 overall?

I'm sorry, but that is crazy talk imo. Even if they were equal prospects, a DL has so much more impact on the game than a Safety.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:50 am

MJW wrote:FWIW, I think Jonathan Allen is comparable to Garrett as a prospect, and all things being equal a dominant interior defender is worth more to me than a dominant edge guy.


Allen is nowhere near the athlete Garrett is. Allen is also a 290lb player and like Solomon Thomas either a big DE or undersized DT. Plus there are Allen's injury concerns. I like Allen and Thomas as prospects and both should top 5 imo. But Garrett is a rare breed. Guys that size who can move like him don't come around very often. He checks every box there is. When you watch Garrett what do see he's lacking?

I also disagree an interior DT is more valuable. Although it's splitting hairs. Edge defenders statistically make more negative plays. There is a natural double team with the OG/C vs a dominate DT where as doubling an EDGE requires one less elgible receiver in the play for the QB.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:24 am

This is that time of year people start digging to find that 2nd guy who could possibly be the #1 pick. But instead of pointing out the qualities in that guy they nit pick things about the consensus #1 pick. I don't know what makes MJW believe Jonathan Allen is just as dominant as Myles Garrett. Even if I do agree with her point about preferring a dominant interior lineman over edge rusher. Yea, if that interior guy is the 2nd coming of Warren Sapp. That ain't Allen. At all. Jamal Adams? I like him but not that much.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Konatown » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:20 am

Based on the tape (I watched nearly every Alabama game), Allen was utterly dominant all year. I think he's someone you have to at least consider when drafting #1 overall. The knock on Garrett was his production, where Allen surely showed more of.

However, because of Garrett's Immense ceiling you almost have to take him. Like others have said it's a very similar situation as Clowney. I'm just happy we're not drafting #1 overall in a year like this if we needed a QB.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Cheb » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:19 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Cheb wrote:
Based on the tape? Jamal Adams.


So you'd draft Safety Jamal Adams over Myles Garrett #1 overall?

I'm sorry, but that is crazy talk imo. Even if they were equal prospects, a DL has so much more impact on the game than a Safety.


Garrett isn't a great defensive end. He has an absurd size/speed/weight combination, but he skates by on that athleticism. If he can tune in his technique, he could be fantastic.

I'm just saying he has a chance to bust.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby MJW » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:47 am

Bootz2004 wrote:This is that time of year people start digging to find that 2nd guy who could possibly be the #1 pick. But instead of pointing out the qualities in that guy they nit pick things about the consensus #1 pick. I don't know what makes MJW believe Jonathan Allen is just as dominant as Myles Garrett. Even if I do agree with her point about preferring a dominant interior lineman over edge rusher. Yea, if that interior guy is the 2nd coming of Warren Sapp. That ain't Allen. At all. Jamal Adams? I like him but not that much.


It's probably that he's been the best player on the field every single time I've watched him. That played in. Allen is an absolute gem. I love great defensive tackle play.

I'd like to expand on your thought though - that they have to be Warren Sapp. No, they don't. They can be Cortez Kennedy or Bryant Young, both guys Allen reminds me a lot of. Both in Canton.

Besides, I'm not knocking Garrett in any way shape or form. IMHO he's one of the best edge prospects I've ever seen and I'd be astounded if he doesn't have an amazing career. This isn't an either/or thing. It's a, "there are two defensive linemen with HOF talent who will go high in this draft" thing. In a vacuum, I'd rather have the interior guy. But there is no wrong answer.

As for Adams, not sure he's even the best safety in this draft. That's just my observation. I think I like Hooker a very little better.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:59 pm

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are hosting four draft prospects at One Buc Place today, according to a source -- USC cornerback Adoree' Jackson, USF wide receiver Rodney Adams, USF running back Marlon Mack and Miami safety Rayshawn Jenkins.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Doctor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:12 am

I love Adoree Jackson. Probably the most physically gifted college player I've seen since Hester at UM.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:23 am

If only he was a good CB...
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby Buc2 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:57 pm

rbf...fix your sig pic, please.
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Buc2 wrote:rbf...fix your sig pic, please.

? What's wrong with it?
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Re: Bucs Big Board Thread

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:47 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Buc2 wrote:rbf...fix your sig pic, please.

? What's wrong with it?
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