"The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby GameTime » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:04 am

But what are we gonna ask poe to do? Just stand around and hold ground? Seems we can find a cheaper option for that. If we are gonna ask him to get to the QB, or play UT, and he could do it well - then hed be worth a big contract.

The gif with his backup is a little unfair - 2nd year developmental guy who weighs 50lbs less vs 1st round pick with 5 years experience.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:11 am

The thing with Poe is that he would single handedly shore up our run defence. So would Brandon Williams (I'm assuming the Panthers find a way to keep Short). I really hope we sign one of those guys.

Mike Smith has a history of liking 2 headed monsters at DT- look at Jacksonville, or all the DTs they drafted high while he was at Atlanta (Over the 6 years between 2009-2014 the Falcons selected a DT with one of their first 2 picks 3 times). And considering the weak DT draft class, I think FA is the route to go with 2, perhaps 3 studs available who would fit, and a **** ton of money.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby GameTime » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:25 am

real bucs fan wrote:The thing with Poe is that he would single handedly shore up our run defence. So would Brandon Williams (I'm assuming the Panthers find a way to keep Short). I really hope we sign one of those guys.

.

Which would be nice, but is it worth the contract poe will bring? In a passing league, do we want our huge FA signing to be a run stopper?
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:08 pm

GameTime wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The thing with Poe is that he would single handedly shore up our run defence. So would Brandon Williams (I'm assuming the Panthers find a way to keep Short). I really hope we sign one of those guys.

.

Which would be nice, but is it worth the contract poe will bring? In a passing league, do we want our huge FA signing to be a run stopper?


He's a difference maker who fills a huge need. Who else do you give big FA money too? Or do we continue the bargain hunting?
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby GameTime » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:39 pm

real bucs fan wrote:He's a difference maker who fills a huge need. Who else do you give big FA money too? Or do we continue the bargain hunting?

Maybe im just wondering how much of a difference maker he is. Maybe i read it wrong, but the chiefs run defense wasnt great, the pass defense wasnt great, they didnt get sacks, they gave up a ton of yards, but they didnt give up points.

Is NT a huge need for us? Id say safety is a much more pressing need. Id rather a guy to fill in for mccoy when he gets nicked up every game rather than a guy for mcdonald/spence. Maybe berry would help us more. Maybe chandler jones. Maybe a quality OL. A WR.

Id love to fill the lines. I just dont know if a huge contract for a guy just to eat double teams is the best way to spend our money.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby Sammich » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:20 pm

GameTime wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The thing with Poe is that he would single handedly shore up our run defence. So would Brandon Williams (I'm assuming the Panthers find a way to keep Short). I really hope we sign one of those guys.

.

Which would be nice, but is it worth the contract poe will bring? In a passing league, do we want our huge FA signing to be a run stopper?


Poe would be a major factor against the run, but there is more to it than that. Poe is athletic enough to not only stand up and beat a double team, but to command that double team. If you try to single block him Poe will eat the poor guy trying to block him on his way to whichever poor schmuck has the ball. The even bigger advantage here is what happens around him. Guys like McCoy and Kwon are very fast and excellent players, but both are on the smaller side of the spectrum for their positions and can be driven out of a play. Poe being there forces a single block on McCoy and keeps Kwon clean to do what he does best. It also allows McDonald to sub with McCoy instead of being an undersized anchor- keeping them both fresh later in the game when its critical.

I understand its easy to not put much value on the nose tackle position. They usually don't get much stats and their name is seldom called. Most of the time its just a big guy doing his best to not get moved, but Poe he is much more than that. I honestly think our defense last year with no other changes except adding Poe is one of the best in the league.

Look at the Steelers/Pats game. Alan branch only got 1 solo tackle the whole game, but he was the cornerstone of stopping Pitt's rushing attack. Poe is better than Branch.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby GameTime » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:42 pm

Sammich wrote:I understand its easy to not put much value on the nose tackle position. They usually don't get much stats and their name is seldom called. Most of the time its just a big guy doing his best to not get moved, but Poe he is much more than that. I honestly think our defense last year with no other changes except adding Poe is one of the best in the league.

Look at the Steelers/Pats game. Alan branch only got 1 solo tackle the whole game, but he was the cornerstone of stopping Pitt's rushing attack. Poe is better than Branch.
why not look at the pitt-kc game? Who was the cornerstone of stopping pitt that day?

I just wonder if we as fans begin to overestimate some of the FAs and draftees because of a few gifs and draft status. I know i do. I put a good deal of stock all over the line. I am just thinking it wont take that contract to hold ground on a double team.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby Cheb » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:14 pm

Sammich wrote:
GameTime wrote:Which would be nice, but is it worth the contract poe will bring? In a passing league, do we want our huge FA signing to be a run stopper?


Poe would be a major factor against the run, but there is more to it than that. Poe is athletic enough to not only stand up and beat a double team, but to command that double team. If you try to single block him Poe will eat the poor guy trying to block him on his way to whichever poor schmuck has the ball. The even bigger advantage here is what happens around him. Guys like McCoy and Kwon are very fast and excellent players, but both are on the smaller side of the spectrum for their positions and can be driven out of a play. Poe being there forces a single block on McCoy and keeps Kwon clean to do what he does best. It also allows McDonald to sub with McCoy instead of being an undersized anchor- keeping them both fresh later in the game when its critical.

I understand its easy to not put much value on the nose tackle position. They usually don't get much stats and their name is seldom called. Most of the time its just a big guy doing his best to not get moved, but Poe he is much more than that. I honestly think our defense last year with no other changes except adding Poe is one of the best in the league.

Look at the Steelers/Pats game. Alan branch only got 1 solo tackle the whole game, but he was the cornerstone of stopping Pitt's rushing attack. Poe is better than Branch.


This guy gets it.

Great post.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:55 am

Cheb wrote:
Sammich wrote:
Poe would be a major factor against the run, but there is more to it than that. Poe is athletic enough to not only stand up and beat a double team, but to command that double team. If you try to single block him Poe will eat the poor guy trying to block him on his way to whichever poor schmuck has the ball. The even bigger advantage here is what happens around him. Guys like McCoy and Kwon are very fast and excellent players, but both are on the smaller side of the spectrum for their positions and can be driven out of a play. Poe being there forces a single block on McCoy and keeps Kwon clean to do what he does best. It also allows McDonald to sub with McCoy instead of being an undersized anchor- keeping them both fresh later in the game when its critical.

I understand its easy to not put much value on the nose tackle position. They usually don't get much stats and their name is seldom called. Most of the time its just a big guy doing his best to not get moved, but Poe he is much more than that. I honestly think our defense last year with no other changes except adding Poe is one of the best in the league.

Look at the Steelers/Pats game. Alan branch only got 1 solo tackle the whole game, but he was the cornerstone of stopping Pitt's rushing attack. Poe is better than Branch.


This guy gets it.

Great post.


Its easy to get, Poe offers getting after the QB. But as a coach I'm a little surprised you prefer to refrain from talking about Williams, who plays far less plays and makes more tackles. Over 200 less plays the last two years.

Then there is the biggie and that is teams that are willing to fight for the contract, which is why I asked you contract gurus what kind of contract each guy could expect to get. Williams looks like he has been used to sharing the snaps, while Poe's snap count began to dwindle the last two years.

I'm just trying to get the whole picture out there. Are we talking about never having these players line up in a 3-4 for us? Some how some way, I'd think this defensive line roster would change or evolve if either of these two were retained.

I have to ask myself, does this move make McSoftie the gap shooter a tackling machine all of a sudden. I have seen teams using what is his perceived strength against him and the results were good for the other team.
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Re: "The Bucs surprisingly select ___ "

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:52 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Naismith wrote:Also, in terms of production, Howard caught a higher percentage of his freshman QB's completions than Brate or Humphries did for the Bucs. Howard's biggest flaw, if it is one, seems to be in choosing to go to a school that doesn't emphasize the TE. On the other hand, he has improved dramatically as a blocker, won a National Championship and will still be a first round pick, so maybe it wasn't a mistake at all.

I'm willing to bet anyone a dollar that he won't be available at pick 19.

Good catch on the TE catches. So the writer was correct that he had the most catches as a TE in a season under Saban but used the wrong number of catches, 33, from before the National Championship game rather than 38.


I will take that bet. Maybe he does go in the top 20 in other years as he does check many boxes but not this year with all the strong prospects at more desired positions. I don't see him as a more impressive prospect than guys like Gronk, Kelce and even ASJ who did not go in the 1st.


I'm willing to let you by out for 95 cents.
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