Vita Vea

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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 9:55 am

Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Not at all. I'm saying Ngata is what Vea dreams about being when he goes to sleep at night. We can only hope he comes close to Ngata level.

Also for those who think Vea is some sort of superior athlete to Ngata, go back and look at Ngatas combine numbers.... Vea is way more Ngata than he is Suh. Vea will be lucky to ever have a 5 sack season.


Even there, let's not act like Suh (or Gmac for that matter) have set the bar incredibly high for "sacks" at the DT spot..

Each is only averaging around 6/year..

At the same league tenure time Ngata averaged 3...as a 2 gapper (like someone else pointed out)..

If Vea gives us 5/year AND destroys the run game as we all think/hope/predict he can, he will well exceed what Suh AND Gerald are at the DT spot...

IMO (let me stress, MY opinion), pairing him WITH McCoy makes our DT position the most formidable in football..

Better than the Jags..

Yes, better than Donald and Suh's Rams..

Double yes, I know Vea is only a rookie and has to prove himself while the others are "proven NFL vets" yadda, yadda, yadda...

The Vea hype is getting a little out of control here. I'm hoping for the best, but it seems many here are just penciling him in as a hall of famer...
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby DreadNaught » Sun May 06, 2018 10:15 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Since we're doing player comps;

If Vea is Ngata and Derwin is Barron

I'd rather have Ngata(Vea). Physically dominate run-stuffing DT are more rare and valuable than LBs/box Safeties

If you're comparing Vea to Ngata, it's only fair to compare James to Polamalu.


Why is that fair? James is much more Barron as a prospect imo
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun May 06, 2018 10:31 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Since we're doing player comps;

If Vea is Ngata and Derwin is Barron

I'd rather have Ngata(Vea). Physically dominate run-stuffing DT are more rare and valuable than LBs/box Safeties

If you're comparing Vea to Ngata, it's only fair to compare James to Polamalu.


More likely Mark Barron
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 10:36 am

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:If you're comparing Vea to Ngata, it's only fair to compare James to Polamalu.


Why is that fair? James is much more Barron as a prospect imo

Ngata is Veas ceiling....

Barron is James floor...
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun May 06, 2018 10:48 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Why is that fair? James is much more Barron as a prospect imo

Ngata is Veas ceiling....

Barron is James floor...


Nope
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 11:10 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Ngata is Veas ceiling....

Barron is James floor...


Nope

Wrong
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Rocker » Sun May 06, 2018 11:15 am

Hatter wrote:I know I'll be alone on this one but I don't think James is going to be the stud in the NFL like a lot of people think he will be.
Just a feeling.


You’re not alone.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby DreadNaught » Sun May 06, 2018 11:27 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Why is that fair? James is much more Barron as a prospect imo

Ngata is Veas ceiling....

Barron is James floor...


I'd say Taylor Mays is Derwin's floor. I remember when "Barron's floor was a pro-bowl Safety" according to Mayock. I know you have affinity for oversized Safeties and once had the idea that Kwon should play there. But the NFL is moving away from 230lb Safeties and just like Barron was a liability the further away from the LOS he was, I feel James will be similar. It's not an insult to James or Barron as they are both good players. I just think it's insulting to Barron (whose made the pro bowl at LB) to say that is the floor for a mid 1st round pick.

I also thought we were doing player comps, as in similar measurables and skillset as prospects entering the NFL, so Polomalu doesn't make sense since I don't see Polomalu ad James as having a similar athletic profile. Not in the way Vea and Ngata do.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 11:57 am

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Ngata is Veas ceiling....

Barron is James floor...


I'd say Taylor Mays is Derwin's floor. I remember when "Barron's floor was a pro-bowl Safety" according to Mayock. I know you have affinity for oversized Safeties and once had the idea that Kwon should play there. But the NFL is moving away from 230lb Safeties and just like Barron was a liability the further away from the LOS he was, I feel James will be similar. It's not an insult to James or Barron as they are both good players. I just think it's insulting to Barron (whose made the pro bowl at LB) to say that is the floor for a mid 1st round pick.

I also thought we were doing player comps, as in similar measurables and skillset as prospects entering the NFL, so Polomalu doesn't make sense since I don't see Polomalu ad James as having a similar athletic profile. Not in the way Vea and Ngata do.

Barron essentially busted as he just couldn't play safety in the NFL. Has turned into a pretty good LB though but James doesn't have that concern, but that's his floor.

I guess if you want a pure comp, maybe Sean Taylor? There just haven't been many guys who have his profile. Mays was the classic looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. James is a bad mofo out there who whoops ass, so don't see that either.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Buc2 » Sun May 06, 2018 12:06 pm

My hope is that the analysts start trying to compare new kids on the block to Vea in 5-6 years.

Such-and-such could be the next Vea!
Such-and-such's ceiling is Vea and that's why he will be a top 10 selection in this draft.
Etc.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 12:08 pm

It's so painfully obvious how little so many of you know about football. I get the Vita/Ngata comparison because most you can't see past the physical and cultural similarities even though they play nothing like each other on the field(Most of you don't understand tape either). But James/Barron??? That's damn near troll status.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Jason Licht even comped Vea to Ngata as his potential.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby terrytate » Sun May 06, 2018 12:41 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:It's so painfully obvious how little so many of you know about football. I get the Vita/Ngata comparison because most you can't see past the physical and cultural similarities even though they play nothing like each other on the field(Most of you don't understand tape either). But James/Barron??? That's damn near troll status.



You're mostly right. Go back and look at some Ngata film, his game and Vea's arent that dissimilar. The biggest difference is that Vea looks to be better at getting to the passer with that hump move of his, Vea looks clearly stronger. In college, both guys moved around the line and caused disruption everwhere, excelling at taking on multiple blockers.

James is nothing like Barron. Barron didn't have the wheels to cover ground or the agility to stick to receivers. James has everything. If James busts, it will be in the same way Taylor Mays did. Both guys were superior athletes with great size and speed. It's going to come down to football IQ and instincts, James has film showing he possess both traits where Mays didn't.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Sun May 06, 2018 1:47 pm

James will be a box safety, similar to Barron before he switched to LB.

Like some have said, Chargers plan on playing him in a Kam Chancelor type role.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Sun May 06, 2018 1:49 pm

Again, Bootz, who do you compare James to?
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 2:00 pm

VauntedTampa2 wrote:James will be a box safety, similar to Barron before he switched to LB.

Like some have said, Chargers plan on playing him in a Kam Chancelor type role.

James is a ton more versatile, can cover (zone, slot, man) Barron could not.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Hatter » Sun May 06, 2018 2:32 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
VauntedTampa2 wrote:James will be a box safety, similar to Barron before he switched to LB.

Like some have said, Chargers plan on playing him in a Kam Chancelor type role.

James is a ton more versatile, can cover (zone, slot, man) Barron could not.

Regardless, I do remember them saying that.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Super K » Sun May 06, 2018 5:08 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:The Vea hype is getting a little out of control here. I'm hoping for the best, but it seems many here are just penciling him in as a hall of famer...


How is comparing him to and discussing him with 3 non-HOF players penciling him in as a HOFer?
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 5:27 pm

VauntedTampa2 wrote:Again, Bootz, who do you compare James to?


He's a more athletic Kam Chancellor to me. He moves bettet than Kam and while he's not that big he's an enforcer who does not shy from contact. I honestly have no clue where this Barron comparison comes from.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun May 06, 2018 5:33 pm

terrytate wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:It's so painfully obvious how little so many of you know about football. I get the Vita/Ngata comparison because most you can't see past the physical and cultural similarities even though they play nothing like each other on the field(Most of you don't understand tape either). But James/Barron??? That's damn near troll status.



You're mostly right. Go back and look at some Ngata film, his game and Vea's arent that dissimilar. The biggest difference is that Vea looks to be better at getting to the passer with that hump move of his, Vea looks clearly stronger. In college, both guys moved around the line and caused disruption everwhere, excelling at taking on multiple blockers.


This is just Bootz trying to be smart and failing. They are two closest prospects I've ever seen. Obviously they have some differences to their games they are different people, but overall they played very similar on tape in college as both were most run stopping DTs who were played all over the field and both showed surprising pass rushing ability for their size. Both even spent time at RB as a large person when they were younger.

They were even utilized in a similar manner in college:

Ngata: 364 snaps at defensive tackle, 231 snaps at defensive end and 110 at nose tackle
Vea: 308 snaps at defensive tackle, 116 snaps at nose tackle and 108 snaps at defensive end

Their physical traits are almost cloned. Almost every NFL scout that reported on Vea mentioned Ngata.

Vea- 6'4" weight- 347 arms 32.63 hands 10 inches, 40 5.10 bench- 41 reps, max bench 505

Ngata- 6'3" Weight- 338 Arms-33.13 inches Hands 9.88 inches, 40 5.18, bench 37 reps, max bench 505

It's freaky how close they are in size, speed, and measured strength.

If you looked at their advanced stats, they also were extremely similar in both pass rushing productivity/beating their man in a one on one pass rush and run stopping % in college.

To say that people comparing the two are only looking physical and cultural similarities is stupid. While they are practically cloned, they were utilized the same way in college, they both had the same question marks in college, they both had similar strengths and weaknesses. Ngata had better hands, Vea looks to be stronger on tape with his bullrush/push pull.

edit: It's about as close of a comp you can get for a college prospect.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Sun May 06, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun May 06, 2018 5:35 pm

and to chime in on the Barron/James comparison.

I'm not a James fan. I didn't like his tape from last season, especially in coverage. I thought he loafed far too much, but he's no where near Barron. Barron was always thought to be maxed out on athleticism. He was supposed to be another coach/genius on the field that could break down plays quickly and lay big hits. James is an athletic freak of nature and if he puts things together he easily could jump out to be the best in this draft. He also could be a huge bust if he continues to be lazy.

I said this before, but as far as strengths/weaknesses, size, etc. I see a motivated James being most similar to Adrian Wilson. Unfortunately, I see some Taylor Mays in him as well.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Sun May 06, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 5:55 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
terrytate wrote:

You're mostly right. Go back and look at some Ngata film, his game and Vea's arent that dissimilar. The biggest difference is that Vea looks to be better at getting to the passer with that hump move of his, Vea looks clearly stronger. In college, both guys moved around the line and caused disruption everwhere, excelling at taking on multiple blockers.


This is just Bootz trying to be smart and failing. They are two closest prospects I've ever seen. Obviously they have some differences to their games they are different people, but overall they played very similar on tape in college as both were most run stopping DTs who were played all over the field and both showed surprising pass rushing ability for their size. Both even spent time at RB as a large person when they were younger.

They were even utilized in a similar manner in college:

Ngata: 364 snaps at defensive tackle, 231 snaps at defensive end and 110 at nose tackle
Vea: 308 snaps at defensive tackle, 116 snaps at nose tackle and 108 snaps at defensive end

Their physical traits are almost cloned. Almost every NFL scout that reported on Vea mentioned Ngata.

Vea- 6'4" weight- 347 arms 32.63 hands 10 inches, 40 5.10 bench- 41 reps, max bench 505

Ngata- 6'3" Weight- 338 Arms-33.13 inches Hands 9.88 inches, 40 5.18, bench 37 reps, max bench 505

It's freaky how close they are in size, speed, and measured strength.

If you looked at their advanced stats, they also were extremely similar in both pass rushing productivity/beating their man in a one on one pass rush and run stopping % in college.

To say that people comparing the two are only looking physical and cultural similarities is stupid. While they are practically cloned, they were utilized the same way in college, they both had the same question marks in college, they both had similar strengths and weaknesses. Ngata had better hands, Vea looks to be stronger on tape with his bullrush/push pull.

edit: It's about as close of a comp you can get for a college prospect.


Your breakdown here is the fail. You proved my point that you can’t get past the physical and cultural similarities between them. Their college tape is nothing alike at all. Vita is far more polished at this point in all areas that Ngata was, who only had 1 season of play under his belt. Vita is far and away more athletic and stronger than Ngata.

And adding stats into the equation nearly cements my point. You, just like most others here, don’t understand how to watch game tape or actually break it down. But as I said I get it. Casuals can’t get past what’s in front of them. If Vita was 45 pounds lighter and played the same exact way not 1 person would use Ngata as a comparison.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun May 06, 2018 6:02 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Your breakdown here is the fail. You proved my point that you can’t get past the physical and cultural similarities between them. Their college tape is nothing alike at all. Vita is far more polished at this point in all areas that Ngata was, who only had 1 season of play under his belt. Vita is far and away more athletic and stronger than Ngata.

And adding stats into the equation nearly cements my point. You, just like most others here, don’t understand how to watch game tape or actually break it down. But as I said I get it. Casuals can’t get past what’s in front of them. If Vita was 45 pounds lighter and played the same exact way not 1 person would use Ngata as a comparison.


Bootz, I think my body of work in this forum shows that I can watch tape, I do know what I'm talking about, and I have been correct more than I've been wrong about prospects on this board. I didn't add the advanced stats, because I know you too well, hence why I just mentioned them.

Their college tape is similar, as I stated, obviously there are differences, they are different people, but they are as close as you get with player comps at the collegiate level. Vea is not/was not "far and away" more athletic or stronger. Casuals wouldn't understand that if Vea were 45 pounds lighter, he wouldn't possibly be able to play the exact same way.

Again, almost every NFL scout and GM mentioned Ngata with Vea. They have a crazy amount of similarities. Are you the only non-casual who understands film?

You can't back your claims up with anything other than insults. As always, let's wait to see.

edit: This is the perfect example of Bootzing, btw.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:12 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Your breakdown here is the fail. You proved my point that you can’t get past the physical and cultural similarities between them. Their college tape is nothing alike at all. Vita is far more polished at this point in all areas that Ngata was, who only had 1 season of play under his belt. Vita is far and away more athletic and stronger than Ngata.

And adding stats into the equation nearly cements my point. You, just like most others here, don’t understand how to watch game tape or actually break it down. But as I said I get it. Casuals can’t get past what’s in front of them. If Vita was 45 pounds lighter and played the same exact way not 1 person would use Ngata as a comparison.


Bootz, I think my body of work in this forum shows that I can watch tape, I do know what I'm talking about, and I have been correct more than I've been wrong about prospects on this board. I didn't add the advanced stats, because I know you too well, hence why I just mentioned them.

Their college tape is similar, as I stated, obviously there are differences, they are different people, but they are as close as you get with player comps at the collegiate level. Vea is not/was not "far and away" more athletic or stronger. Casuals wouldn't understand that if Vea were 45 pounds lighter, he wouldn't possibly be able to play the exact same way.

Again, almost every NFL scout and GM mentioned Ngata with Vea. They have a crazy amount of similarities. Are you the only non-casual who understands film?

You can't back your claims up with anything other than insults. As always, let's wait to see.


Your body of work is largely unnoticed and uninformative. That’s not an insult, that’s the truth.

Vita absolutely could play the same way at a different weight. A casual would think otherwise, just like you do here.

If almost every GM/scout mentioned him as a comp to Ngata, show me. Also remember they are human too and most people truly can’t get past physical comparisons. That’s why all white players are compared to other white players. Polynesians compared to Polynesians. Unless play is simply dictated by race. But that’s another conversation.

I could back up my claims easily if you idiots understood game tape but as I’ve stated that’s not the case at all.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby real bucs fan » Sun May 06, 2018 6:16 pm

Ya Ngata is litterally as good a comp as you'll find. Vea might be a touch more freakish, but Ngata was much more of a technician. But really, there is noone else close. And Vea isn't anywhere near where Suh was as a prospect.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Cheb » Sun May 06, 2018 6:34 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Ya Ngata is litterally as good a comp as you'll find. Vea might be a touch more freakish, but Ngata was much more of a technician. But really, there is noone else close. And Vea isn't anywhere near where Suh was as a prospect.


I think this post hits every note about right. Seconded.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby terrytate » Sun May 06, 2018 7:10 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Ya Ngata is litterally as good a comp as you'll find. Vea might be a touch more freakish, but Ngata was much more of a technician. But really, there is noone else close. And Vea isn't anywhere near where Suh was as a prospect.



There is a reason why Suh went #2 overall, ahead of McCoy. His college production was silly. Turns out McCoy was the better pick though.

Vea isn't as polished as either Suh or McCoy and may never match there ability to generate pressure. It's not impossible though, Vea's measurables aren't far off of Suh's and he has even more freakish strength. Coach him up at put him at the 3 in a few years, he'll do some damage. Especially if he gets more help around him than McCoy got before now.
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Super K » Sun May 06, 2018 7:24 pm

terrytate wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Ya Ngata is litterally as good a comp as you'll find. Vea might be a touch more freakish, but Ngata was much more of a technician. But really, there is noone else close. And Vea isn't anywhere near where Suh was as a prospect.



There is a reason why Suh went #2 overall, ahead of McCoy. His college production was silly. Turns out McCoy was the better pick though.

Vea isn't as polished as either Suh or McCoy and may never match there ability to generate pressure. It's not impossible though, Vea's measurables aren't far off of Suh's and he has even more freakish strength. Coach him up at put him at the 3 in a few years, he'll do some damage. Especially if he gets more help around him than McCoy got before now.


Egg fuckin zactly....
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
VauntedTampa2 wrote:Again, Bootz, who do you compare James to?


He's a more athletic Kam Chancellor to me. He moves bettet than Kam and while he's not that big he's an enforcer who does not shy from contact. I honestly have no clue where this Barron comparison comes from.


You really do have no clue , They both play the same position are they are both the same size . One is 6-3 214 lbs and the other is 6-1 212 lbs . You are welcome Kid

And Mays was 6-3 220 and sucks just like James will suck
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Re: Vita Vea

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 8:33 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He's a more athletic Kam Chancellor to me. He moves bettet than Kam and while he's not that big he's an enforcer who does not shy from contact. I honestly have no clue where this Barron comparison comes from.


You really do have no clue , They both play the same position are they are both the same size . One is 6-3 214 lbs and the other is 6-1 212 lbs . You are welcome Kid

And Mays was 6-3 220 and sucks just like James will suck


Size is all idiots like you use when making comparisons. You're too stupid to look at or understand tape, dumbass.
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