With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby MJW » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:44 am

I think this is a great draft if we decide we want a DB, or a TE, or an edge, and a lossssy draft if we want anything else. I think we'll probably take one of those three spots eventually and be merry.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:41 am

Alpha wrote:
Doctor wrote:Your floor s very generous. I say his floor is Reggie Bush, maybe CJ Spiller.


There is absolutely ZERO evidence (thus far) to support this claim...other than supposition.

That said...I tend to agree with MJ here. WHERE we're selecting, I'd pass on ANY RB that isn't a bona fide stud (and neither Cook nor McC are).

This draft reeks of 2013 to me. Having my druthers, I'd trade this entire draft away for picks next year.


Where is Ditka when you need him?


So in this post you want to pass on Cook and McCaffrey because neither is enough of a bona fide stud to take at 19. Makes sense. But in the post you made right before this you said CM's floor is Westbrook and his ceiling is Tomlinson. I'd sure like to know how studly a RB has to be to worthy of being picked at 19 according to you?

Does their floor have to be Adrian Peterson and their ceiling Jim Brown? I must say, you don't talk football anywhere near as well as you talk hockey.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby BradC » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:55 am

MJW wrote:I think this is a great draft if we decide we want a DB, or a TE, or an edge, and a lossssy draft if we want anything else. I think we'll probably take one of those three spots eventually and be merry.


If we go DB in the first and it's not Adams, I'm going to be pissed. Well perhaps not pissed, but disappointed. Adams is the closest to a 'sure thing' and I believe he is a safe pick. Lattimore and Hooker are one-year wonders. Not saying they won't continue their success, but they just don't have enough of a sample size for me to be thrilled about the pick. And, with Hooker coming off two surgeries and Lattimore's hamstring concerns, that has me even more hesitant or cautious.

Even with Sydney Jones tearing his Achilles, I still think this is one of the deepest drafts at DB and that we should wait until the second or third to draft a DB not named Adams.

I'm all for Howard though, if he's there. He's going to be a stud.

With that said, my first choice is still Corey Davis. I think he's going to be a beast and one of the NFL's best receivers in 3-4 years. Outside of Garrett (and a healthy Jonathan Allen), I think he's the best player in this draft IMHO. Unless he goes to a team with a **** QB, he's going to be a star.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 am

BradC wrote:
MJW wrote:I think this is a great draft if we decide we want a DB, or a TE, or an edge, and a lossssy draft if we want anything else. I think we'll probably take one of those three spots eventually and be merry.


If we go DB in the first and it's not Adams, I'm going to be pissed. Well perhaps not pissed, but disappointed. Adams is the closest to a 'sure thing' and I believe he is a safe pick. Lattimore and Hooker are one-year wonders. Not saying they won't continue their success, but they just don't have enough of a sample size for me to be thrilled about the pick. And, with Hooker coming off two surgeries and Lattimore's hamstring concerns, that has me even more hesitant or cautious.

Even with Sydney Jones tearing his Achilles, I still think this is one of the deepest drafts at DB and that we should wait until the second or third to draft a DB not named Adams.

I'm all for Howard though, if he's there. He's going to be a stud.

With that said, my first choice is still Corey Davis. I think he's going to be a beast and one of the NFL's best receivers in 3-4 years. Outside of Garrett (and a healthy Jonathan Allen), I think he's the best player in this draft IMHO. Unless he goes to a team with a **** QB, he's going to be a star.



The problem with your post is 18 teams arent even going to let you wave good bye to the player you hoped you would get.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:30 am

mdb1958 wrote:
BradC wrote:
If we go DB in the first and it's not Adams, I'm going to be pissed. Well perhaps not pissed, but disappointed. Adams is the closest to a 'sure thing' and I believe he is a safe pick. Lattimore and Hooker are one-year wonders. Not saying they won't continue their success, but they just don't have enough of a sample size for me to be thrilled about the pick. And, with Hooker coming off two surgeries and Lattimore's hamstring concerns, that has me even more hesitant or cautious.

Even with Sydney Jones tearing his Achilles, I still think this is one of the deepest drafts at DB and that we should wait until the second or third to draft a DB not named Adams.

I'm all for Howard though, if he's there. He's going to be a stud.

With that said, my first choice is still Corey Davis. I think he's going to be a beast and one of the NFL's best receivers in 3-4 years. Outside of Garrett (and a healthy Jonathan Allen), I think he's the best player in this draft IMHO. Unless he goes to a team with a **** QB, he's going to be a star.



The problem with your post is 18 teams arent even going to let you wave good bye to the player you hoped you would get.


The player we hope to get will be drafted 18 times? Good stuff.

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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Swashy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:02 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

The problem with your post is 18 teams arent even going to let you wave good bye to the player you hoped you would get.


The player we hope to get will be drafted 18 times? Good stuff.

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Oh my God I laughed much harder at this than I should have. That gif is wrong on so any levels
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby beardmcdoug » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:58 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

The problem with your post is 18 teams arent even going to let you wave good bye to the player you hoped you would get.


The player we hope to get will be drafted 18 times? Good stuff.

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Lmfao
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Alpha » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:16 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
There is absolutely ZERO evidence (thus far) to support this claim...other than supposition.

That said...I tend to agree with MJ here. WHERE we're selecting, I'd pass on ANY RB that isn't a bona fide stud (and neither Cook nor McC are).

This draft reeks of 2013 to me. Having my druthers, I'd trade this entire draft away for picks next year.


Where is Ditka when you need him?


So in this post you want to pass on Cook and McCaffrey because neither is enough of a bona fide stud to take at 19. Makes sense. But in the post you made right before this you said CM's floor is Westbrook and his ceiling is Tomlinson. I'd sure like to know how studly a RB has to be to worthy of being picked at 19 according to you?

Does their floor have to be Adrian Peterson and their ceiling Jim Brown? I must say, you don't talk football anywhere near as well as you talk hockey.


Easy there sporty-spice. His "floor/ceiling" are just my personal opinion. I am CLEARLY in the minority. He isn't coming out with the bona fides of an Elliot or Peterson (at least according to what I've read). According to the "experts" he has mid-first round talent in what I consider to be a pretty mediocre draft pool. Many sources have Cook falling to us at 19, making HIM a mid-first rounder...in a pretty mediocre draft pool.

My point was...and still is...if you hold a gun to my head and make me choose a RB at 19...I take McC over D. Cook every time.

BUT...I'd gladly pass up either prospect in order to get an extra first round pick NEXT year.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Alpha » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:25 pm

MJW wrote:I think this is a great draft if we decide we want a DB, or a TE, or an edge, and a lossssy draft if we want anything else. I think we'll probably take one of those three spots eventually and be merry.



Where you see "great", I see, "meh". I might give you "deep" instead.

Look at the TE's, for example. Your top 2 come with serious questions. OJ has production issues and Njoku MAY become the next great UM TE...or he may never develop and become the next mediocre, over-sized WR. When it's all said and done, Butt out of Michigan could easily have as good a career as either of those 2 and he might be had in the third round.

I'd put your EDGE rushers in the same category as the TE group. LOTS of questions...and the consensus #1 player (Garrett) was picked apart pretty thoroughly in an article written by former Buc D-lineman Steven White (I think he writes for SB Nation but I could be mistaken there).

This just smells an awful lot like the 2013 draft to me.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Doctor » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:43 pm

Alpha wrote:
Doctor wrote:Your floor s very generous. I say his floor is Reggie Bush, maybe CJ Spiller.


There is absolutely ZERO evidence (thus far) to support this claim...other than supposition.

That said...I tend to agree with MJ here. WHERE we're selecting, I'd pass on ANY RB that isn't a bona fide stud (and neither Cook nor McC are).

This draft reeks of 2013 to me. Having my druthers, I'd trade this entire draft away for picks next year.


Where is Ditka when you need him?

There's no evidence of anything given they haven't played in the NFL yet.

The "evidence" if the fact of similar players before them getting a reality check in the league. There was no "evidence" that Bush would be as lame as he was, but yet he was. McC is quick and talented, but so is every player he'll play against in the NFL. And he's not great at breaking tackles or getting much after contact, and in the NFL you're going to get contacted far faster and more often than you were in college.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:00 pm

I gotta give Alpha credit, atleast he isnt talking about drafting one of the top 7 picks in the draft - he is actually looking below the 19th pick to see who we could consider. There are atleast 7 players ranked top 18 that I dont even care if we get. A smart drafter is going to do his homework on picks 19 thru 50 and if I did a quick check I'm sure I could eliminate a few of those rather quickly.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Teitan » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:11 pm

mdb1958 wrote:I gotta give Alpha credit, atleast he isnt talking about drafting one of the top 7 picks in the draft - he is actually looking below the 19th pick to see who we could consider. There are atleast 7 players ranked top 18 that I dont even care if we get. A smart drafter is going to do his homework on picks 19 thru 50 and if I did a quick check I'm sure I could eliminate a few of those rather quickly.



Except you are "looking into players below the 19th pick" based on other people's/sites rankings. Teams have to establish their own big board. Which means "Top 19" is different for every team. So smart drafters (NFL front offices, not message board posters) are going to do their homework on all available players.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:41 pm

Teitan wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:I gotta give Alpha credit, atleast he isnt talking about drafting one of the top 7 picks in the draft - he is actually looking below the 19th pick to see who we could consider. There are atleast 7 players ranked top 18 that I dont even care if we get. A smart drafter is going to do his homework on picks 19 thru 50 and if I did a quick check I'm sure I could eliminate a few of those rather quickly.



Except you are "looking into players below the 19th pick" based on other people's/sites rankings. Teams have to establish their own big board. Which means "Top 19" is different for every team. So smart drafters (NFL front offices, not message board posters) are going to do their homework on all available players.



I agree, but I'm talking about most everyone in here looking and hoping some player 18 and above drops to us, not much below is even getting the consideration of discussion.

Looking at CBS rankings, I think I quickly eliminated 17 or so that I could care less about even drafting. Of course its my opinion or gut feeling or what ever you want to call it. I'd put Shaheen the TE as a player that I would really love to have on this team. I talked about this before, if you go back on multiple drafts there are many first rounders that you could give a damn about wishing you had picked them.

Between 20 and 84 how many players do you see that you really wished could be a part of our team, pick 2 of them and show me who we left out.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Alpha » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:01 pm

Doctor wrote:
Alpha wrote:
There is absolutely ZERO evidence (thus far) to support this claim...other than supposition.

That said...I tend to agree with MJ here. WHERE we're selecting, I'd pass on ANY RB that isn't a bona fide stud (and neither Cook nor McC are).

This draft reeks of 2013 to me. Having my druthers, I'd trade this entire draft away for picks next year.


Where is Ditka when you need him?

There's no evidence of anything given they haven't played in the NFL yet.

The "evidence" if the fact of similar players before them getting a reality check in the league. There was no "evidence" that Bush would be as lame as he was, but yet he was. McC is quick and talented, but so is every player he'll play against in the NFL. And he's not great at breaking tackles or getting much after contact, and in the NFL you're going to get contacted far faster and more often than you were in college.



Again. You have a hard-on for D. Cook.

Noted.

I disagree.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Alpha » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:17 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Between 20 and 84 how many players do you see that you really wished could be a part of our team, pick 2 of them and show me who we left out.


To this point.

Frankly, between 10 (maybe even past 5 or 6) and 80, I don't see a tremendous difference. Not to say they aren't talented players or will have successful NFL careers...but they all have their flaws/concerns.

I've been through several sites (CBS. NFL,com and a few others) and there seems to be somewhat of a consensus on who the top 10-20 players are in this draft. What I've noticed (primarily) are 2 things. And they apply to EVERY draft...not just this one:

1) The "atheletic freaks" or the guys that did extraordinarily well at the Combine, get inserted into some expert mocks, even though they are far from "consensus" picks. The LB out of Temple being one. Njoku being another. The kid out of UCLA does as well (McKinney?). You see some mocks having those guys going towards the end of the 1st/2nd round and then some random site has them going top 10. Every draft, you have "that guy" being taken surprisingly high. That said, most sites have the same 15 or so guys at the top.

2) No consensus who the top 3 or so QB's are and when or even IF they're gonna be drafted in the top 20. I've seen some sites report that the dreaded "unidentified NFL GM" has no 1st round grade on ANY QB. Yet most mocks have 1-2 QB's going in the top 15. Personally, I wouldn't touch ANY of these QB's in the 1st round. That said, QB's are ALWAYS over-drafted so it wouldn't shock me at all if 2 went in the top 10.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Alpha » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:38 pm

Just for shits and giggles, I made quick note of the consensus 1st rounders. This isn't from one site, just a quick approximation. The farther you get down the list the more variance there tends to be. I'll also note the out-layers. The guys who pop up here and there but are by no means unanimous:

M. Garrett
J. Allen
M.Williams
J. Ross
C. Davis
M. Hooker
J. Adams
S. Thomas
D. Barnett
M. Lattimore
M. Humphrey
L. Fournette

These guys seem to be (mostly) unanimously in the top 10-16 players taken in the 1st round.

R. Ramczyk
OJ Howard/D. Njoku
T. Charlton
D. Cook
C. McCaffrey
S. Jones (before he blew out his Achilles).

Again...these guys are typically seen in your top 20 or so in MOST "expert" mock drafts. I noted earlier, most have OJ Howard going before Njoku but some sites have Njoku going insanely high and before Howard.

Then you have the guys that seem to be the best of the rest and one or two that show up randomly.

R. Foster
M. McDowell
C. Brantley
F. Lamp

(T. McKinnley)
(H. Reddick)




And then you 3-4 QB's who may or may not be in a first round mock because...who knows. But 2 of these guys might go pretty early:

D. Watson
M. Trubisky
D. Kizher
P. Mahomes





Outside of 5 or 6 guys...are you REALLY that psyched for one of the rest over any other? Hell...keep going into the 50-70 range. There are guys down there that I would get just as excited about as having T. McKinnley or Brantley or Njoku.
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