With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:22 pm

mdb1958 wrote:Prisco has us taking Obi at 19, why we would do that without trading down is beyond my understanding.


I've never actually watched him play. Have the day off, so what the hell, let's watch some film! Here’s my stream-of-consciousness scouting report while watching him play.

Poor backpedal with stiff hips, which makes sense given his height. Doesn’t do a great job of tackling and hitting, especially because he outweighs everyone and is (apparently) very fast. More of a lunge and dragger than a thumper as a hitter. Doesn’t have big hits despite being so big and fast. Does a good job of supporting the run, though, gets the ball carrier on the group. Pretty good in man coverage, used in man coverage quite a bit, you can see his corner background. Does a solid job of getting down the ball carrier in the open field. Rangy on deep throws. Sometimes a bit hesitant against both the pass and run. Doesn’t respect play action much, gets burned near every time. Based on his combine numbers I expected him to wow with athleticism, but that explosion doesn’t seem to translate on the field. Jogs a lot in pursuit. Plays high against the run and low against the pass, which is the exactly opposite of how it's supposed to be. Not always the best pursuit angles. Houston abused him all game. He tips his assignment based on his presnap footwork, which is correctable but speaks to his level of preparation. A bad blitzer. Does an excellent job of shutting down the bubble and tunnel screen game, probably the best part of his game. Doesn’t track the ball well in the air. Again lots of jogging, a bad thing to be a serial offender about. His interceptions are more a result of bad offensive play than good defensive play. The only time he uses that spectacular leaping ability to to lunge for tackles; doesn’t high point the ball in pass defense at all, leaves PBUs and INTs on the field because of it, allows TDs because of it. Again, late to respond to deep threats when covering in Cover-2.

Overall, he’s very raw. Doesn’t jump off film as very athletic. He reminds me of Stanley Jean-Baptiste, another large player in the secondary who was overdrafted based on workouts, a guy who was an enormous bust for the Saints in the second round of the 2014 draft and is now a practice squad player on the Seahawks.

If we draft this derp-a-lerp in the first round, I’ll be livid. He’s a developmental guy. I think he’s a fourth or fifth rounder by his on-field talent. I also think he has bust written all over him.

Stuff I watched:
Vs Virginia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x3Nb2UXqx8
Vs Cincinnati - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7IvtLovZMs
Vs Houston - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXCB5akTp4
Vs USF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5oZU436zM
Highlights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGvodzlFpbg

On a sidenote, that USF runner is good; he made Obi look bad a few times. Now THAT’S a guy who jumps off film. Apparently Marlon Mack is a third to fourth rounder. I would be very, very interested in him. Plus, he’s from the local school over there.

Screw Obi, draft Mack.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby LUGZ » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:27 pm

I think I'm sold on Peppers @ 19. He would be a beast on our defense. He'd also allow us to run a truly effective 4-2-5 defense.

Won't be mad if we go elsewhere, but he would really be an awesome draft pick imo.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:32 pm

And, if we sign Baker, we will have even more flexibility as far as setting up different fronts. Maybe even some 4-2-5 odd packages (3-3-5).
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:31 pm

LUGZ wrote:I think I'm sold on Peppers @ 19. He would be a beast on our defense. He'd also allow us to run a truly effective 4-2-5 defense.

Won't be mad if we go elsewhere, but he would really be an awesome draft pick imo.

Nickle? You mean nickle?
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:33 pm

Marlon Mack is a gamer Cheb..big play phenom..

That's another reason why I'm so against taking Cook at #19..grabbing Mack later gives us a damn good back with the same big play ability...
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:46 pm

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Prisco has us taking Obi at 19, why we would do that without trading down is beyond my understanding.


I've never actually watched him play. Have the day off, so what the hell, let's watch some film! Here’s my stream-of-consciousness scouting report while watching him play.

Poor backpedal with stiff hips, which makes sense given his height. Doesn’t do a great job of tackling and hitting, especially because he outweighs everyone and is (apparently) very fast. More of a lunge and dragger than a thumper as a hitter. Doesn’t have big hits despite being so big and fast. Does a good job of supporting the run, though, gets the ball carrier on the group. Pretty good in man coverage, used in man coverage quite a bit, you can see his corner background. Does a solid job of getting down the ball carrier in the open field. Rangy on deep throws. Sometimes a bit hesitant against both the pass and run. Doesn’t respect play action much, gets burned near every time. Based on his combine numbers I expected him to wow with athleticism, but that explosion doesn’t seem to translate on the field. Jogs a lot in pursuit. Plays high against the run and low against the pass, which is the exactly opposite of how it's supposed to be. Not always the best pursuit angles. Houston abused him all game. He tips his assignment based on his presnap footwork, which is correctable but speaks to his level of preparation. A bad blitzer. Does an excellent job of shutting down the bubble and tunnel screen game, probably the best part of his game. Doesn’t track the ball well in the air. Again lots of jogging, a bad thing to be a serial offender about. His interceptions are more a result of bad offensive play than good defensive play. The only time he uses that spectacular leaping ability to to lunge for tackles; doesn’t high point the ball in pass defense at all, leaves PBUs and INTs on the field because of it, allows TDs because of it. Again, late to respond to deep threats when covering in Cover-2.

Overall, he’s very raw. Doesn’t jump off film as very athletic. He reminds me of Stanley Jean-Baptiste, another large player in the secondary who was overdrafted based on workouts, a guy who was an enormous bust for the Saints in the second round of the 2014 draft and is now a practice squad player on the Seahawks.

If we draft this derp-a-lerp in the first round, I’ll be livid. He’s a developmental guy. I think he’s a fourth or fifth rounder by his on-field talent. I also think he has bust written all over him.

Stuff I watched:
Vs Virginia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x3Nb2UXqx8
Vs Cincinnati - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7IvtLovZMs
Vs Houston - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXCB5akTp4
Vs USF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5oZU436zM
Highlights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGvodzlFpbg

On a sidenote, that USF runner is good; he made Obi look bad a few times. Now THAT’S a guy who jumps off film. Apparently Marlon Mack is a third to fourth rounder. I would be very, very interested in him. Plus, he’s from the local school over there.

Screw Obi, draft Mack.


Agree Cheb - same things I saw, would be livid too. Agree with you on Mack too.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:46 pm

Doctor wrote:
LUGZ wrote:I think I'm sold on Peppers @ 19. He would be a beast on our defense. He'd also allow us to run a truly effective 4-2-5 defense.

Won't be mad if we go elsewhere, but he would really be an awesome draft pick imo.

Nickle? You mean nickle?


no I think he means nickel
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Teitan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:04 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Doctor wrote:Nickle? You mean nickle?


no I think he means nickel



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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:09 pm

slow clap
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:11 pm

There is Obi at what he is now and then there is Obi prepped in a NFL system. He is also getting mocked in the first to Pitt and Atlanta. Maybe they have the confidence to mold him into what they want.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:23 pm

mdb1958 wrote:There is Obi at what he is now and then there is Obi prepped in a NFL system. He is also getting mocked in the first to Pitt and Atlanta. Maybe they have the confidence to mold him into what they want.

I don't. I want players not athletes. And there's way too many players in this draft.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Doctor wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:There is Obi at what he is now and then there is Obi prepped in a NFL system. He is also getting mocked in the first to Pitt and Atlanta. Maybe they have the confidence to mold him into what they want.

I don't. I want players not athletes. And there's way too many players in this draft.


I want football players, not combine warriors. Not saying Obi can't be a great player, but no thanks at 19. Hell, I'd take Peppers at 19 over Obi. I KNOW Peppers is football player, it's a scheme fit issue w/ Peppers.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:51 pm

Doctor wrote:
Cheb wrote:
Realistically somewhere between Brian Westbrook and Tiki Barber.

Naismith wrote:McCaffrey, to me, is Darren Sproles but with a higher usage floor.

real bucs fan wrote:Westbrook IMO.


Dudes, get your own comparisons. Leave mine alone!

But yeah, that's where I put him as well.

mdb1958 wrote:WWD

White Warrick Dunn


That one is interesting.

I'd also like to throw in a better Ty Montgomery. McC would be a great pick for the Packers.


Warrick Dunn? Not sure what you guys are seeing here. What about a miniaturized, compact version of Leveon Bell? That's what CM looks like when he runs. And to quote Rick Blaine, I know my opinion does not amount to a hill of beans in this world, so this is my suggestion:

Check out CM's combine workout shortly after Mayock and Eisen comment about how sharply he cuts around the cones. One of these guys asks Marshall Faulk what he thinks about CM. Faulk is a huge fan. He goes off about how special he thinks this kid is, his eye/feet connectivity, his patience, the way he sets up his blockers and maneuvers defenders where he wants them to be with a hardly any movement on his own part.

I really recommend listening to what he says. CM always struck me as a gorgeous runner, but I could not really articulate why his running struck me in this fashion. Faulk explained it to me.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:59 pm

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Prisco has us taking Obi at 19, why we would do that without trading down is beyond my understanding.


I've never actually watched him play. Have the day off, so what the hell, let's watch some film! Here’s my stream-of-consciousness scouting report while watching him play.

Poor backpedal with stiff hips, which makes sense given his height. Doesn’t do a great job of tackling and hitting, especially because he outweighs everyone and is (apparently) very fast. More of a lunge and dragger than a thumper as a hitter. Doesn’t have big hits despite being so big and fast. Does a good job of supporting the run, though, gets the ball carrier on the group. Pretty good in man coverage, used in man coverage quite a bit, you can see his corner background. Does a solid job of getting down the ball carrier in the open field. Rangy on deep throws. Sometimes a bit hesitant against both the pass and run. Doesn’t respect play action much, gets burned near every time. Based on his combine numbers I expected him to wow with athleticism, but that explosion doesn’t seem to translate on the field. Jogs a lot in pursuit. Plays high against the run and low against the pass, which is the exactly opposite of how it's supposed to be. Not always the best pursuit angles. Houston abused him all game. He tips his assignment based on his presnap footwork, which is correctable but speaks to his level of preparation. A bad blitzer. Does an excellent job of shutting down the bubble and tunnel screen game, probably the best part of his game. Doesn’t track the ball well in the air. Again lots of jogging, a bad thing to be a serial offender about. His interceptions are more a result of bad offensive play than good defensive play. The only time he uses that spectacular leaping ability to to lunge for tackles; doesn’t high point the ball in pass defense at all, leaves PBUs and INTs on the field because of it, allows TDs because of it. Again, late to respond to deep threats when covering in Cover-2.

Overall, he’s very raw. Doesn’t jump off film as very athletic. He reminds me of Stanley Jean-Baptiste, another large player in the secondary who was overdrafted based on workouts, a guy who was an enormous bust for the Saints in the second round of the 2014 draft and is now a practice squad player on the Seahawks.

If we draft this derp-a-lerp in the first round, I’ll be livid. He’s a developmental guy. I think he’s a fourth or fifth rounder by his on-field talent. I also think he has bust written all over him.

Stuff I watched:
Vs Virginia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x3Nb2UXqx8
Vs Cincinnati - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7IvtLovZMs
Vs Houston - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXCB5akTp4
Vs USF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5oZU436zM
Highlights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGvodzlFpbg

On a sidenote, that USF runner is good; he made Obi look bad a few times. Now THAT’S a guy who jumps off film. Apparently Marlon Mack is a third to fourth rounder. I would be very, very interested in him. Plus, he’s from the local school over there.

Screw Obi, draft Mack.


Great stuff, Cheb. Some of this stuff cannot be fixed, especially the jogging/effort part. That's baked into the cake if that's indeed habitual with him.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:59 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Doctor wrote:


Dudes, get your own comparisons. Leave mine alone!

But yeah, that's where I put him as well.



That one is interesting.

I'd also like to throw in a better Ty Montgomery. McC would be a great pick for the Packers.


Warrick Dunn? Not sure what you guys are seeing here. What about a miniaturized, compact version of Leveon Bell? That's what CM looks like when he runs. And to quote Rick Blaine, I know my opinion does not amount to a hill of beans in this world, so this is my suggestion:

Check out CM's combine workout shortly after Mayock and Eisen comment about how sharply he cuts around the cones. One of these guys asks Marshall Faulk what he thinks about CM. Faulk is a huge fan. He goes off about how special he thinks this kid is, his eye/feet connectivity, his patience, the way he sets up his blockers and maneuvers defenders where he wants them to be with a hardly any movement on his own part.

I really recommend listening to what he says. CM always struck me as a gorgeous runner, but I could not really articulate why his running struck me in this fashion. Faulk explained it to me.


I just said that for the heck of it.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:06 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
Warrick Dunn? Not sure what you guys are seeing here. What about a miniaturized, compact version of Leveon Bell? That's what CM looks like when he runs. And to quote Rick Blaine, I know my opinion does not amount to a hill of beans in this world, so this is my suggestion:

Check out CM's combine workout shortly after Mayock and Eisen comment about how sharply he cuts around the cones. One of these guys asks Marshall Faulk what he thinks about CM. Faulk is a huge fan. He goes off about how special he thinks this kid is, his eye/feet connectivity, his patience, the way he sets up his blockers and maneuvers defenders where he wants them to be with a hardly any movement on his own part.

I really recommend listening to what he says. CM always struck me as a gorgeous runner, but I could not really articulate why his running struck me in this fashion. Faulk explained it to me.


I just said that for the heck of it.


Come on, mdb. I respect your opinion and want you to defend it. But it's probably moot because here's my prediction. We are taking a S or DE at 19. I don't see a trade down here yet despite how much you want us to do that. Sorry.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Just so you know Obi made 138 more tackles than Reuben Foster for his college career, ------------------------ but I agree its a no at 19...
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:10 pm

I still maintain that, if he's on the board, Cook is the pick...

If he's not, OJ Howard is the guy..

If they are both gone, I've got no ****ing clue..
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:15 pm

Give me Haasan Reddick at 19
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Hoping more that we go defense now. Taco Charlton, one of the corners, Foster if teams are stupid and he falls. Cam Robinson offensively if he falls to 19.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Nano » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:11 pm

We could go literally anywhere. Compared to last couple years, this year is harder to mock for us :/
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:17 pm

Nano wrote:We could go literally anywhere. Compared to last couple years, this year is harder to mock for us :/


That's a good thing. No pressure to force a pick in hopes of getting an immediate star.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Teitan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:26 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Nano wrote:We could go literally anywhere. Compared to last couple years, this year is harder to mock for us :/


That's a good thing. No pressure to force a pick in hopes of getting an immediate star.



Yep. Nice for once going and not really knowing. Not saying, "Well, we have to take player X because we have no one else at the position." Finally starting to feel like this front office/ownership is all in to win.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:28 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Nano wrote:We could go literally anywhere. Compared to last couple years, this year is harder to mock for us :/


That's a good thing. No pressure to force a pick in hopes of getting an immediate star.


That might be a good thing about the Conte signing. If you want to go Peppers or Baker at 19 then fine but no reason to think you have to.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:48 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Hoping more that we go defense now. Taco Charlton, one of the corners, Foster if teams are stupid and he falls. Cam Robinson offensively if he falls to 19.



How would you line up our 3 linebackers with Foster?
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:49 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Hoping more that we go defense now. Taco Charlton, one of the corners, Foster if teams are stupid and he falls. Cam Robinson offensively if he falls to 19.



How would you line up our 3 linebackers with Foster?


Play Foster at SAM
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby Doctor » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:32 am

mdb1958 wrote:Give me Haasan Reddick at 19

Where would you play him?
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby BucStick » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:35 am

Okay, I'm not going back and reading all 30 pages of this thread.

But everything Licht is doing in free agency so far tells me that we are trying to put ourselves in a position where we can draft O.J. Howard without feeling that we neglected any other need.

Because Evans, Brate, and Howard on the field at the same time would just be stupid hard to defend and I'm all for it.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby MJW » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:28 am

BucStick wrote:Okay, I'm not going back and reading all 30 pages of this thread.

But everything Licht is doing in free agency so far tells me that we are trying to put ourselves in a position where we can draft O.J. Howard without feeling that we neglected any other need.

Because Evans, Brate, and Howard on the field at the same time would just be stupid hard to defend and I'm all for it.


Maybe...although you could be projecting a bit.

We still have other needs. We desperately need another corner. And safety. We have a guard playing left tackle, and guy with a bulky back playing left guard, and nobody playing center. We also could absolutely use another wideout. And we also have an upcoming free agent (McDonald) and a thirtysomething (Ayers) playing major roles on the defensive line. Or maybe we go BPA. Or maybe we like David Njoku better.

Howard is absolutely a possibility at #19. This is true. You could be right. I'm not a fan and I will not be thrilled if we draft him. To me he's a product of the Alabama hype machine and his ceiling is "guy who starts at tight end for eight years, catches 400 passes, and is never considered among the best at the position." That's where I peg is ceiling. Marcedes Lewis. Maybe Kyle Rudolph. That would be...fine. I'm really not a fan of these "swing for a double" high draft picks. Howard would be the same mentality that brought us guys like Adrian Clayborn. "Well, we can check that box off." Licht has been pretty bold with some of his picks and I hope he's willing to aim higher.
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Re: With the 19th pick in the 2017 draft Bucs select...

Postby BradC » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:52 am

Super K wrote:I still maintain that, if he's on the board, Cook is the pick...

If he's not, OJ Howard is the guy..

If they are both gone, I've got no ****ing clue..


I feel the same.

Jameis is Licht's guy and I believe Licht will do what makes Jameis happy -- that's why we drafted a kicker in the 2nd last year. I believe Jameis had a lot to do with Licht taking Aquayo and I believe the Bucs trading up to make sure they got him is further proof of that. Like Aquayo last year, Cook has publicly stated that staying in Florida and being reunited with Winston would be a 'Dream come true'. I'm sure Licht is well aware of Cook's desire to play for the Bucs. I also believe that the Bucs might not only be looking at Cook as a good fit from a need/x's and o's standpoint, but as Cook being the best pick to sell tickets and fill seats.

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Cook let off the gas a bit at the combine to help his stock slide a bit knowing the Bucs want to take him. Call me crazy, but I was shocked that Cook didn't run better than a 4.49 as he looks sooo much faster than that on the field. I've seen him easily run away from defenders time and time again.

Also, now that we've just signed Jackson, I feel taking a WR at #19 is off the board.

Frankly, I'll be shocked if Cook is there and the Bucs do not take him. Is he my first choice? No. But I'll be happy with the pick.

If Cook's not there, I really, really hope the Bucs are smart enough to take Howard. Even if we do draft Cook, I'm praying that we take Engram in the 2nd or 3rd (although I doubt he'll be there in the 3rd).

If neither Cook or Howard are there at #19, something tells me that McCaffrey will be the guy. I'll be happy with that too as I really feel that the Bucs need a game-changing running back to keep defenses honest and open up the passing game for Winston, Evans, Jackson and co.
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