Mariota or Winston?

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What will Lovie do with #1 Pick?

Jameis Winston
62
50%
Marcus Mariota
27
22%
No preference as long as it's MM or JW
16
13%
Defensive Line
2
2%
Offensive Line
3
2%
Other
1
1%
Trade Down
13
10%
 
Total votes : 124

Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:16 pm

3 years later and this debate is still up in the air...

That said, today I'd take Winston. My concerns with him have mostly been alleviated- assuming this uber groping business goes away quietly forever...
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:19 pm

real bucs fan wrote:3 years later and this debate is still up in the air...

That said, today I'd take Winston. My concerns with him have mostly been alleviated- assuming this uber groping business goes away quietly forever...


But Mariota is a playoff QB.....(lulz)
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:22 pm

playoff wins :
Mariota -1
Winston -0
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:32 pm

They have both underperformed for their draft positions.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:34 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:playoff wins :
Mariota -1
Winston -0


Blake Bortles- 1
Winston- 0

Tim Tebow- 1
Winston- 0
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:playoff wins :
Mariota -1
Winston -0

Debate over guys. At least until next week when Mariota has more playoff losses!
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:26 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:playoff wins :
Mariota -1
Winston -0

Debate over guys. At least until next week when Mariota has more playoff losses!


What Mariota wins ?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Debate over guys. At least until next week when Mariota has more playoff losses!


What Mariota wins ?


English?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:45 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
What Mariota wins ?


English?


Motherfucker
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Buc2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:18 am

At this point, I'd take Winston over Mariota. The only thing the Titans have proven is that they have a better defense and running attack. If they had the Bucs run game and defense, they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs either. Mariota sure wasn't the one that got them there.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:12 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:
English?


Motherfucker

Do you speak it!?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Jason Bourne » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Motherfucker

Do you speak it!?


Wha what ?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Watchout4Bucs » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:52 pm

So Mariota has a better team around him so clearly he is the better QB. Let's penalize Winston for not sucking more his rookie year and leading his team to the #1 overall pick.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:58 pm

Watchout4Bucs wrote:So Mariota has a better team around him so clearly he is the better QB. Let's penalize Winston for not sucking more his rookie year and leading his team to the #1 overall pick.


It's still too early to declare a winner in this, but I don't think it's unfair to say that after 3 years both guys are disappointing in different ways. Both Goff and Wentz are MVP candidates in their second year, and Mariota/Winston are accounting for more turnovers than touchdowns in their third.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:02 pm

MJW wrote:
Watchout4Bucs wrote:So Mariota has a better team around him so clearly he is the better QB. Let's penalize Winston for not sucking more his rookie year and leading his team to the #1 overall pick.


It's still too early to declare a winner in this, but I don't think it's unfair to say that after 3 years both guys are disappointing in different ways. Both Goff and Wentz are MVP candidates in their second year, and Mariota/Winston are accounting for more turnovers than touchdowns in their third.


Both Goff and Wentz are surrounded by way more talented teams and tasked with doing less than Winston & Mariota. Also fans tend to remember Tampa Bay and Tennessee both got picks 1 & 2 based on their record. The Rams and Eagles both traded up to get there. They weren't as bad as the picks they made.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:16 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
It's still too early to declare a winner in this, but I don't think it's unfair to say that after 3 years both guys are disappointing in different ways. Both Goff and Wentz are MVP candidates in their second year, and Mariota/Winston are accounting for more turnovers than touchdowns in their third.


Both Goff and Wentz are surrounded by way more talented teams and tasked with doing less than Winston & Mariota. Also fans tend to remember Tampa Bay and Tennessee both got picks 1 & 2 based on their record. The Rams and Eagles both traded up to get there. They weren't as bad as the picks they made.


That's all completely valid, but it doesn't change that the Rams and Eagles are totally thrilled with their guys, and both the Titans and Bucs are likely less than that level of excited at this point. It's still early, things change. But Wentz looks far-and-away like the best of the four of them, and Goff, despite being carefully managed, is consistently executing. Winston has the same worts in his game he did coming out of Florida State, and Mariota is regressing badly. I don't think the book is written on any of the four of them (though you have to feel good about Wentz right now.)
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:23 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Both Goff and Wentz are surrounded by way more talented teams and tasked with doing less than Winston & Mariota. Also fans tend to remember Tampa Bay and Tennessee both got picks 1 & 2 based on their record. The Rams and Eagles both traded up to get there. They weren't as bad as the picks they made.


That's all completely valid, but it doesn't change that the Rams and Eagles are totally thrilled with their guys, and both the Titans and Bucs are likely less than that level of excited at this point. It's still early, things change. But Wentz looks far-and-away like the best of the four of them, and Goff, despite being carefully managed, is consistently executing. Winston has the same worts in his game he did coming out of Florida State, and Mariota is regressing badly. I don't think the book is written on any of the four of them (though you have to feel good about Wentz right now.)


I don't think the Titans or Bucs are any less thrilled with their young QBs than the Rams or Eagles at this point. Mariota may have regressed but he's the only 1 of the 4 with a playoff win at this point.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Deja Entendu » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
That's all completely valid, but it doesn't change that the Rams and Eagles are totally thrilled with their guys, and both the Titans and Bucs are likely less than that level of excited at this point. It's still early, things change. But Wentz looks far-and-away like the best of the four of them, and Goff, despite being carefully managed, is consistently executing. Winston has the same worts in his game he did coming out of Florida State, and Mariota is regressing badly. I don't think the book is written on any of the four of them (though you have to feel good about Wentz right now.)


I don't think the Titans or Bucs are any less thrilled with their young QBs than the Rams or Eagles at this point. Mariota may have regressed but he's the only 1 of the 4 with a playoff win at this point.


I can assure you the Eagles (organization and fan base) are "more excited" about Wentz. You'd be hard pressed to find a single bad or questionable thing said about him in this city.

I agree about the Rams though. Furthermore, I'd take Winston over Goff without thinking twice, and don't doubt many in LaLa Land would disagree.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:17 am

Deja, you live in Philly, too?

Wentz is a god right now here. Every Eagles fan is convinced they win the Lombardi by 4 TDs with him (think Cowboys vs Bills).
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
That's all completely valid, but it doesn't change that the Rams and Eagles are totally thrilled with their guys, and both the Titans and Bucs are likely less than that level of excited at this point. It's still early, things change. But Wentz looks far-and-away like the best of the four of them, and Goff, despite being carefully managed, is consistently executing. Winston has the same worts in his game he did coming out of Florida State, and Mariota is regressing badly. I don't think the book is written on any of the four of them (though you have to feel good about Wentz right now.)


I don't think the Titans or Bucs are any less thrilled with their young QBs than the Rams or Eagles at this point. Mariota may have regressed but he's the only 1 of the 4 with a playoff win at this point.


Let's not play "MJW and Bootz" for a minute. I'm asking you nicely. Let's not do Skip and Shannon.

Do you ACTUALLY believe this? That the Titans and the Bucs are 100% as excited about their guys as those two fanbases are right now? Don't knee-jerk argue. The Eagles have, IMHO, the NFL MVP, full stop. Goff still has a long way to go, but while he gets there, he just won 11 games and had a Pro Bowl caliber year.

Mariota looked like warmed over crap most of the year. He threw for 5 fewer touchdowns in 16 games than DeShaun Watson did in six. Don't sugar coat it. There's as good a chance he's backing up in two years as there is he's starting.

It's easy to go "prisoner of the moment" because Winston finished strong, but he's still maddeningly inconsistent and he still turns the ball over way too much. If he comes out and plays next year like he did the last month of this year, that changes the conversation. And if we're actually measuring in fan excitement, that means it's valid to acknowledge the possibility off-the-field will cut into things. He could be having an NFL MVP type season next year and get a ten gamer from Goodell. I can't speak for you, but that puts a cap on my excitement level, until he's cleared.

Right now, it's not even a question. The Eagles don't trade Wentz for either of the 2015 guys and three firsts. The Rams don't trade for either one of them straight up. The 2016 guys have already won more, been to the playoffs more, produced more, protected the ball better, etc. The Titans would deal Mariota for either one in a heartbeat, and Winston being a successful NFL QB is still a projection. Next year, maybe that changes. We'll see.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 am

I asked this questions to a group of friends I maintain contact with who are scattered across the country with various favorite NFL teams. The consensus was:

Wentz is easily the best right now. This was unanimous.

They would likely take Jameis over Goff on the field (some picked Goff, most picked Jameis), but the off field stuff and the eating the W **** made them think Jameis was immature and/or a clown and thought it could hinder him going forward.

Mariota was last on the list for most.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:51 am

uscbucsfan wrote:I asked this questions to a group of friends I maintain contact with who are scattered across the country with various favorite NFL teams. The consensus was:

Wentz is easily the best right now. This was unanimous.

They would likely take Jameis over Goff on the field (some picked Goff, most picked Jameis), but the off field stuff and the eating the W **** made them think Jameis was immature and/or a clown and thought it could hinder him going forward.

Mariota was last on the list for most.


I'll co-sign all of this.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:59 am

If you were going to rank them (which isn't exactly the same thing as measuring excitement, but whatever) there'd only be two lists:

1) Wentz
2) Goff
3) Winston
4) Mariota

or

1) Wentz
2) Winston
3) Goff
4) Mariota

That's really it. Which one you prefer depends on whether you'd rather have:

A) Winston's laser arm, face-of-the-franchise mentality, and ability to make something out of nothing

Or

B ) Goff's beautiful deep throws, ability to execute as coached game in, game out, and lack of drama
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:31 am

I think the jury is still out on all these guys. Even Wentz could go Derek Carr next year. Next year will be huge to each.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Doctor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:44 am

real bucs fan wrote:I think the jury is still out on all these guys. Even Wentz could go Derek Carr next year. Next year will be huge to each.
Bingo. Everyone is so quick to jump on QB wagons, when they are so fickle. Remember last year when everyone was talking about Dak and Carr for MVP and the future QBs of the league? Now they are no where to be found. Now it's Wentz and Goff. Next year it may be Watson and Mahommes. Who knows.

Point is all this is worthless. Consistency is supreme yet most often overlooked for hype. None of these QBs have had enough time in the league to really know what any of them are about.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:51 am

Yeah I tend to think people put way too much stock into the first few years of QBs. The truly great guys currently all took 4-5 years to solidify themselves. Many were considered busts at one point (Rodgers, Ryan), while the flavors of the month ebbed and flowed.

Of all the recen guys, Luck has had the most winning, but even he has proven to be turnover prone (as was Manning, by the way) and injury prone.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:53 am

Rodgers was considered a bust?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Noles1724 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:55 am

Doctor wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I think the jury is still out on all these guys. Even Wentz could go Derek Carr next year. Next year will be huge to each.
Bingo. Everyone is so quick to jump on QB wagons, when they are so fickle. Remember last year when everyone was talking about Dak and Carr for MVP and the future QBs of the league? Now they are no where to be found. Now it's Wentz and Goff. Next year it may be Watson and Mahommes. Who knows.

Point is all this is worthless. Consistency is supreme yet most often overlooked for hype. None of these QBs have had enough time in the league to really know what any of them are about.


Vince young also won the rookie of the year award.. so yeah
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:57 am

Ken Carson wrote:Yeah I tend to think people put way too much stock into the first few years of QBs. The truly great guys currently all took 4-5 years to solidify themselves. Many were considered busts at one point (Rodgers, Ryan), while the flavors of the month ebbed and flowed.

Of all the recen guys, Luck has had the most winning, but even he has proven to be turnover prone (as was Manning, by the way) and injury prone.


Other than Rodgers, I agree with this entirely. Just sub in Stafford for Rodgers here.

Go back and evaluate all the QBs in the NFL after their first 3 seasons and/or where they were at 23 years old and I'd bet Jameis Winston compares favorably at this point up vs all of them.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby MJW » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:06 pm

I agree, the book isn't written on any of these guys yet. It's probably safe now to "close the book" on the 2013 class. But even the 2014 class is still sorting itself out.

That said, in January of 2018, the 2016 class is beating the 2015 class on the curve. For the 19th time, maybe that changes.
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